i have now seen it all

[Beane]

just when you thought the whole "women's specific" thing might be taking a turn for the logical...

from CyclingNews:

Elite expand range for women's market

Elite has announced a women-specific design for its new Kit Azzurra drink bottle and cage combination. The new kit is made up of a Hydra drink bottle and a Custom Race bottle holder with an all-new design and colour scheme.

The Hydra drink bottle has a capacity of 550 ml, with an easy grip and push/pull top, while the Custom Race cage auto-regulates to the bottle's diameter.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=/photos/2008/tech/news/03-04/ELITEKITAZZURRA

hahaha

.......maybe we can get a real woman to review it and tell us whether it is superior to her previous, gender neutral waterbottle?

[snapdragen]

It has flowers on it, so it must be wsd! :rolleyes:

[mimitabby]

ah, isn't that special?

[kat_h]

My husband's comment was "ribbed for her pleasure."

[Andrea]

^ Yeah, Does it have batteries and a "back massage" feature? :confused:

[Zen]

Where do you put the batteries?

[crazycanuck]

:rolleyes: URGH..**^&*&^^^^^ WSD crap.

[uforgot]

Can someone enlighten me and tell me what is wrong with it?

[Andrea]

It's just the fact that they made a WSD water bottle. What is so non-woman-specific about a normal water bottle?? Except that they don't have flowers on them and a vague "toy-like" appearance.

[Thorn]

That goes into the same category as the pink floor pump...sigh....

[rij73]

Boy, that is tacky in the extreme... I like my bottles clear and my cages black, thank you very much. :rolleyes:

[roadie gal]

Just looking at that makes me hear bad porn music in the background. Sheesh.

[Zen]

although this is unnecessary and kind of demeaning I think I know what they were aiming for in that the "ribbed" (what else can I call it) part makes it easier to grip and pull out of the cage.

Women are so weak ;)

[Veronica]

I think the ribs would be useful. I often feel like my bottle is going to slip out of my hand when I'm wearing long fingered gloves.

V.

[SadieKate]

Who uses a 500 ml bottle unless you have vehicle support? :confused:

Editing: OK, I do but only on one mtb that doesn't have space for a larger bottle and then I also wear a hydration pack. That's a pretty small niche market.

[uforgot]

Just looking at that makes me hear bad porn music in the background. Sheesh.

Huh? Because it's biking and floral? Does this (http://www.teamestrogen.com/products.asp?pID=32381) also upset you? And then top it off with this (http://www.teamestrogen.com/products.asp?pID=32349), and you KNOW it's not a serious biker. And how dare purelycustom.com have floral spacers (http://www.purelycustom.com/c-86-spacers.aspx) , headset caps and handlebar endcaps. (I have the dark blue hibiscus headset cap, so I guess my Burley is "tacky" and I should be pole dancing instead of biking.

I believe we have had a couple of threads about this very subject. The last one I remember is about how a TEer had a brand new bike, and it was pink. She rode it on a trail and was completely hurt by the comments of other bikers on the trail. Of course TE rallied and let her know that there was nothing wrong with her pink bike, and now this thread sounds like those very people. Diversity is what it is all about. What I consider tacky may be beautiful to someone else. I see nothing wrong if someone wants "girly" things to bike with. This is different than a floor pump, as a bottle is actually something that is VISIBLE and on the bike. If the pink pump were a frame pump, how many here would purchase it for their bikes? I know there are some that would. I've seen threads where people are looking for pink bike accessories. The blue flowers are the same. Nothing wrong with it if you like it. The point is to BIKE, and no one should have to worry about the biking fashion police.

I think that before we open our mouths and declare something tacky, ugly and not "serious" we need to consider others. And how on earth are light blue flowers pornographic??? The point is to BIKE, and no one should have to worry about the biking fashion police. No, I don't own a floral water bottle.

[maillotpois]

Who uses a 500 ml bottle unless you have vehicle support? :confused:


that was exactly my thought. unless you have a follow car or you're also wearing a camelback - how far will that bottle (or 2 of them) get you? sure I could probably do a quick 30 miler on that bottle (on a cool day), but I LIKE having extra water just in case.

[Tuckervill]

Claudia, I think they were referring to its phallic shape, not the blue flowers. Others were more discreet than me--I was going to post that it looks like a p@nis, too.

Unless you were kidding, too. :D

Karen

[rij73]

I should have chosen my words more carefully, but I guess it just seemed unnecessary to me to have a company marketing water bottles specifically to women. I thought the *idea* of marketing a bottle as WSD only because of its floral print was tacky. Maybe a man might like that bottle! I think some of the more decorative bikes and accessories are great looking...

[OakLeaf]

Just looking at that makes me hear bad porn music in the background. Sheesh.

Is there good porn music? :cool:

[SadieKate]

Think Bo Derek in 10, running along the beach to Ravel's Bolero.

[OakLeaf]

Who uses a 500 ml bottle unless you have vehicle support? :confused:

Editing: OK, I do but only on one mtb that doesn't have space for a larger bottle and then I also wear a hydration pack. That's a pretty small niche market.

Well maybe you've hit on it, though. I was rolling my eyes too, I admit, but my hybrid frame really doesn't accommodate a standard 21 oz. bottle. (Not sure of the frame size, but I ride a 50 cm Cannondale road bike and a measured 47 cm older custom steel frame, so the hybrid isn't super small.) I like to bring water along if I'm riding the hybrid 5-6 miles one way - especially on a hot day - or if I'm going to be at my destination for a couple of hours. I get dehydrated really easily, for one thing, plus I don't like to buy bottled water if I can bring my own.

Small niche market, maybe, but I'll bet it's almost entirely women. The flowers are a bit much, but the size, maybe not.

[OakLeaf]

Think Bo Derek in 10, running along the beach to Ravel's Bolero.
:D:D:D:D:D:rolleyes:

[SadieKate]

Even the small standard 21 ounce bottles are larger than that one though.

[Skierchickie]

I think the blue flowers are very pretty - I have no problem with that. I have no problem with pink. My problem is with gear that is marketed as women's specific that is just a pink version of the men's. Or that is designed for women, but you can ONLY get it in pink. If there isn't anything functionally different that is designed to work better for a woman, then don't sell me a load of blankety-blank telling me it is WSD. If I want pink, I'll buy pink (I did go through a pink phase in the late 80s, early 90s). What if I want a saddle that fits me, but is orange? Or green? I don't happen to be a pink person anymore. I have to say, I was outraged last spring when I was browsing through DH's tri magazine with all the hot new gear in it - cover to cover. With 2 pages of wsd stuff - let's see, Speedplay pedals that were identical to the other Speedplay pedals (don't remember which model), but in pink! Etc. :mad: I suppose it's just a sign that we're still vastly outnumbered, and these companies don't think there is any money in it. Why design a new product when they can just slap pink paint on what they have? I think this is exactly why I'm not a pink person anymore.

I'm sorry - am I ranting? It's one of my pet peeves.

Actually, I did like the blue flowered waterbottle, until it was pointed out just what it's shaped like. :rolleyes:

[HillSlugger]

I went to a fashion show at a new bike shop that caters to women (Bella Bikes in Ellicott City, MD). The owner said that many bicycle/bike accessories manufacturers think that the way to make WSD is to "pink it and shrink it". Only some of the manufactures get it that making products that are useful for women involves more planning and design right from the start.

[Zen]

Actually, I did like the blue flowered waterbottle, until it was pointed out just what it's shaped like. :rolleyes:

I kind of like it because of that. Gotta admit, it's different.

[Aggie_Ama]

Claudia- You reminded me of a conversation I had with my mom. She just bought and started riding a Harley. She was absolutely appalled when one of the women from her riding class sent her an email elated about her new motorcyle. She bought a Buell that was blue with yellow flowers "and just so cute!" My mom made gagging noises and called it a sissy bike. I went to the strangers defense saying she loves it and that is important. And as is my nature continued to argue with my mom for a good 10 minutes about how riding a motorcycle should be about freedom and self expression and what ever else I could find to say she was wrong. :rolleyes:

Now I will go off to enjoy my girly bike with pale blue accents, pink bottles and girly flowery jerseys, but no penis shaped WSD bottles. :p

[lph]

I wish that the label wsd could stick to gear that is functionally different, i.e. specifically designed to accomodate the physical differences between (most) men and (most) women. There's no reason the rest shouldn't be gender neutral.

It's nobody's business if I want something in flaming red with black skulls on it, or if my son happens to like pale blue or lilac, and we don't need to be told that "this is for women", with the annoying subtext that everything else is, by default, "for men".

[uforgot]

Claudia, I think they were referring to its phallic shape, not the blue flowers. Others were more discreet than me--I was going to post that it looks like a p@nis, too.


Karen

Um, oh yeah, totally missed that in my rage. Okay, you guys with the pornographic references are off the hook. Remember the banana keeper thread? But on the other hand, what water bottle doesn't look phallic or like a nipple for that matter?

BUT, that "phallic" thread drift didn't start until post #4. A lot of posts object to A. light blue color and b. flowers and the fact that it's being marketed to women. If you have girly bikes and/or accessories, no way can you be considered a serious biker, because somehow what you have is toylike and not good enough. Sort of reminds me of "If you don't wear the right clothes, have the right backpack or the latest Hannah Montana cd, you can't play with us at recess." Personally, I have a set of floral tools. Oh, not because I thought they were pretty, but my grown sons hate them, therefore I still have them several years later. I rewired the kitchen and and put new plumbing in the bathrooms with them. But, hey, I guess no one should take my repair skills seriously because my pliers fit my smaller hands and have flowers on them.

I tend to over-react when I feel that anyone is being disparaged in any way. As a teacher, I see it all the time. I see absolutely no reason to completely discredit a water bottle simply because YOU don't think it's something anyone should want. I'm not talking about the size argument here, that was a valid point. Just don't buy it. It's not like you don't have a gazillion choices there. I bet you that there are a lot of people who like it simply because of it's color and graphics, and telling them their taste is crap is simply wrong.

Instead of posting for the whole world to see when you think someone/something is wacko, you should do what I do. Email Sandra!

[rij73]

Valid points, uforgot... But, I don't think anyone was being disparaging of women who like floral patterns. We just hate it that they are marketing something WSD only because of the floral pattern.

I think lph said it best of all:

I wish that the label wsd could stick to gear that is functionally different, i.e. specifically designed to accomodate the physical differences between (most) men and (most) women. There's no reason the rest shouldn't be gender neutral.
It's nobody's business if I want something in flaming red with black skulls on it, or if my son happens to like pale blue or lilac, and we don't need to be told that "this is for women", with the annoying subtext that everything else is, by default, "for men".

[Aggie_Ama]

I think I catch what people are trying to say about the women's stuff being floral and pale colors. If this was also offered in say orange or black but still with women's features would that be okay? The design is definitely trying to change for women, although I need more water that that. :rolleyes:
I personally like the girly stuff even though in my non-cycling life I am pretty much not girly. I hate fashion, styling my hair, in fact my only girly vice is eye makeup!

I have noticed a lot of the bike manufacturers offering gender neutral choices, maybe a slow change is coming. My WSD Cannondale came in the blue/black combo which is not over the top pink or floral but definitely not masculine and a very gender neutral silver and black.

[Bron]

lph pretty much summed up what I think too.

Personally, I am waiting for the day when traditional women's equipment is marketed with "men specific design" - vacuum cleaners with go-faster-stripes, washing machines being sold by motor size, ironing boards in black and chrome.........

[Thorn]

lph pretty much summed up what I think too.

Personally, I am waiting for the day when traditional women's equipment is marketed with "men specific design" - vacuum cleaners with go-faster-stripes, washing machines being sold by motor size, ironing boards in black and chrome.........

Brava! Well said....I need say no more....but, DH's reply....you mean like this one?

[susiej]

lph pretty much summed up what I think too.

Personally, I am waiting for the day when traditional women's equipment is marketed with "men specific design" - vacuum cleaners with go-faster-stripes, washing machines being sold by motor size, ironing boards in black and chrome.........

I'd like to see an end to "mens" and "womens," instead marketing what makes it different. For example, rather than WSD camelbacks, they would be "narrow shoulder" or "slim fit," because I can see a lot of young teen boys whose might be more comfortable in a "womens" pack -- until their shoulders broaden. And wasn't there a thread about shorter men who would be more comfortable on a WSD frame, but are put off by the classification as WSD?

It's a nice fantasy I live in, isn't it? ;)

[rij73]

I agree susieJ, but indeed, it will be a long time... But, yes, the bottle that started this whole thread would be great if it were marketed as a "Small, decorative, water bottle" or something like that.

ETA: I lust after that stand-mixer! :p

[roadie gal]

Claudia, I think they were referring to its phallic shape, not the blue flowers. Others were more discreet than me--I was going to post that it looks like a p@nis, too.

Unless you were kidding, too. :D

Karen

Yes, this was what made me hear porn music, not the flowers.

[Starfish]

"this is for women", with the annoying subtext that everything else is, by default, "for men".

This is Soooo much of it, for me. I am sick of a whole catalog of cycling stuff, with 2 pages of WSD. I notice they don't call the whole rest of the catalog MSD.

As a woman with long torso, short legs, and extremely small hands, I am waiting for the day when bikes of all frame proportions can be ordered with some options without having to spend an arm and a leg, or without going custom. Like, ordering a long-torso frame with the option of R700 and a Terry Falcon X, for instance.

And, I don't notice a lot of water bottles out there sporting Speed Racer or Racer X graphics, and marketed as MSD.

Grrrr. :mad:

[kat_h]

Honestly I don't like the term WSD at all, because even though I am definitely female hardly any of it ever fits me. I tried some WSD bikes and thought that with a longer top tube and wider handlebars they'd be pretty good. On Saturday I went shoe shopping and after three times around the women's side still hadn't found a single shoe that fit, so I went to the men's side and the second pair I tried on was perfect. When I saw that the water bottle only holds a half litre I wondered what 9 year old that would be enough for.

susiej summed it up perfectly. It would be better to label them as slim fit or something that actually describes the product, instead of calling it WSD when I'm a woman and it sure as heck wasn't designed for me.

[Starfish]

So, the one other thing I would add here is that we can preach to the choir here all we want...we should also be writing letters and emails to the companies.

I get tired of doing that, although I do write letters (not as much as I complain, though). But, if we want change, we have to keep letting them know, and keep letting them know, and keep letting them know. Maybe it won't help that much, but what else can we do? At least writing a letter is an action we can take.

[OakLeaf]

Personally, I am waiting for the day when traditional women's equipment is marketed with "men specific design" - vacuum cleaners with go-faster-stripes, washing machines being sold by motor size, ironing boards in black and chrome.........

:D:D:D:D

The phrase LOL is so overused these days as to be meaningless... but that one really made me laugh out loud.

[OakLeaf]

many bicycle/bike accessories manufacturers think that the way to make WSD is to "pink it and shrink it". SO true, though that's the first time I've heard that phrase. The same is true for any sports gear! Gloves are a pet peeve of mine.

[chickwhorips]

I like my new pink wsd bike. :D

Oh and I really like the flame kitchen aide. To bad it won't go with my wine themed kitchen. Guess I'll either have to drink more wine to make it look good or redesign my kitchen.
Looks like I'll be drinking more often. Maybe I'll change to whiskey though. :eek: :rolleyes:

[spokewench]

Brava! Well said....I need say no more....but, DH's reply....you mean like this one?

That Kitchenaid is so cool with those flames! I'm Bron on this one. I'm not going to tell people to not have pink flowered anything, but my PERSONAL taste just doesn't go that direction when I am doing sporty activities.

A few years back, it was almost impossible to find a woman's jersey in royal blue, red, or black. These colors were only in men's cycling fashions. I know this because the racing kits I had were red, black and royal blue and sometimes I like to ride in a plain jersey. Just couldn't find anything to match my shorts! That thankfully has changed a bit so I don't have to wear only girly colors on the bike.

[Di bear]

lol - my bike shop has a Bontrager WSD tire pump! I laughed at the WSD. I liked the color scheme (different blues - blue is my favorite color...boy color). I had to ask. WHAT makes this a WSD pump? Well . . . I can't remember what minor changes they made, but my $30 Park Tool pump wasn't going to be replaced with a $60 WSD pump, especially since the Park Tool pump works great...and it's PARK! ;-)

[Di bear]

I like the idea of being able to order frames in any size. :-)

I wanted a new mountain bike, and thank God I was able to buy a Trek Fuel EX8 WSD. I wanted the new design and I also wanted an upgrade. It worked out well. HOWEVER, what if I were the rider I was two years ago looking for a new bike. I bought the Fuel EX7 (2005) on closeout. It's a great bike and it allowed me to grow fast as a rider. With the '08s, there is such a huge gap in quality between the WSD 6 and WSD 8.

As far as water bottles go, the freebies I've gotten work quite well. They're CSD - Customer Specific Design from the LBS. :-)

[chickwhorips]

What about one of these: http://littlepinktools.com/

I asked for tools for Xmas for years, finally got a set. Always helped Dad out in the garage since I was little. I was always envious of all his tools. Maybe if he would've found that set of tools I would've had them earlier. I'm happy my DBF has a big tool box. ;)

[Andrea]

lol - my bike shop has a Bontrager WSD tire pump! I laughed at the WSD. I liked the color scheme (different blues - blue is my favorite color...boy color). I had to ask. WHAT makes this a WSD pump? Well . . . I can't remember what minor changes they made, but my $30 Park Tool pump wasn't going to be replaced with a $60 WSD pump, especially since the Park Tool pump works great...and it's PARK! ;-)
I asked the same thing! Supposedly you get a lot of air for a small amount of pumping, and they sell just as many to men as they do to women because they make tire filling uber easy.

[VeloVT]

I would actually buy a pink floor pump. Not because I of "important women-specific features", just because I thought the pink hula flowered Specialized pump was cute. And because there's a certain irony to the idea of it being WSD that would probably continue to amuse me.

These bottles... I don't get what the company was thinking. They are personally not my taste, but I would have no problem with someone buying them because they liked the blue flowers or the bottles matched their bike. But there's something absurd about calling them WSD. It's just so thin and transparent, and I suppose that thinness and transparency could be interpreted as being somewhat condescending towards women's aspirations and talents as athletes/cyclists. I am a bit of a feminist and these bottles don't particularly offend me... but we all have different triggers... (podium girls, on the other hand, are a big trigger for me :mad:)...

[Zen]

... (podium girls, on the other hand, are a big trigger for me :mad:)...

HooBoy! Don't get me started.
I'm starting to like that water bottle, though. If only it didn't have those silly flowers on it ;)

[cyclinnewbie]

OK I'm reading the posts on this thread and am of the same mind as most...if you're gonna market something as WSD, it better be made to fit my hand, my butt, my leg, my waist-to-hip ratio, my boobs (and I've got em, and I'm short, so they're VERY apparent, so a small guy's top ain't gonna cut it). That being said, I have a pink and black cannondale bike, so does that make me less of a biker? Just so happens that the only bike I could find that fit me and was comfortable was pink and black...and I'm not a pink person. But, you know what? I've had the bike for a week, and people have stopped their cars and told me what a cool bike I have. The gist of my story is that I don't care what color I have, as long as it works.

And, Thorn....can I have that rockin kitchenaid mixer?? I LOVE IT!!!!!!

I'm sticking with my pink and black, thank you, and I'm rockin it!! Well, as long as I'm on it, and not laying on the ground UNDER it, as has happened once already LOLOL:D:D:D:D:D:D