Help me! Road Bike Part Grades for Dummies

[Idealmuse]

I was wondering if someone could either give me a quick run down or point me in the direction of a web-page that gives a run down of the grades of bike components for road bikes. (Sora, Tiagra, 105, Ultegra, & Dura-Ace)

What makes one so much better then another making one bike cost $300 and another cost $1000? Which parts are just worth the upgrade if you can afford it and which are just icing on the cake? I know it's all opinion or relative and there is not one right answer, but I was just looking for opinions. Its a bit overwhelming to someone who's just ridden a MTB tank. (Specialized HardRock)

I need to invest in a road bike and while I don't need a top of the line one I am doing Triathalon training so I need something halfway decent. I rather invest in a road bike that is more multi-purpose then a Tri bike given I'm only starting out in Tri's this year.

It's a loaded question I know so even if you could just point me in the right direction where to do some research I'd be ever so thankful. :)

[VeloVT]

If you are trying to keep to a budget **BUT** you are hoping to keep the bike you buy for a while, I'd say 105 would be a good balance of value and quality. There is some difference in shift quality between the groups (I've never ridden anything below 105 -- I have a 105 bike and an Ultegra bike, and I've test-ridden, but never owned, Dura Ace bikes), and I've read anecdotal reports that the lower groups (below 105) are less durable and reliable, though I have no personal experience to verify that. There are significant weight differences and that's a lot of what you pay for honestly.

[tulip]

+1 Liza.

Think of it like cars.

Shimano = Toyota

Sora = Yaris

Tiagra = Corolla

105 = Camry

Ultegra = Avalon

Dura-Ace = Lexus

[F8th637]

+1 Liza.

Think of it like cars.

Shimano = Toyota

Sora = Yaris

Tiagra = Corolla

105 = Camry

Ultegra = Avalon

Dura-Ace = Lexus

Where does Deore fit into this? Putting it like this is very helpful, tulip. Thanks!

[Zen]

Where does Deore fit into this? Putting it like this is very helpful, tulip. Thanks!

it doesn't. That list is road bike .
Deore is MTB (Toyota Truck;).

[Idealmuse]

2200 = Matchbox?

:)

Thanks both of you. That was helpful. Going to try and find a good book and read read read.

[F8th637]

it doesn't. That list is road bike .
Deore is MTB (Toyota Truck;).

Oh, very interesting! Had no idea! Thanks, Zen!

[Andrea]

Don't forget about SRAM! SRAM Website (http://willyoumaketheleap.com/)

Rival
Force
Red

The main difference is weight/material that the parts are constructed out of. As with Shimano, there will be some difference in durability and shift quality as well. Personally, I think that for a person looking for the best quality at the lowest price, it doesn't get much better than Rival! I am building an all-out race machine, so I've got Red ordered, but before that came out, Force was the top of the line choice for SRAM.

Now, any Campy lovers want to speak up?

[mimitabby]

I was thinking of speaking up but didn't know how to grade my sports cars... :)
maybe later

[tulip]

I only focused on Shimano because that's what Idealmuse asked about. I agree with Zen that Deore XT is a Tundra and Deore is a Tacoma PreRunner.

I'm not up on my Maserti models, otherwise I'd give Campy a try.

EDIT: but I am up on my Audi/VW models for Campy comparison (from high to low)

Record = Audi RS4 Cabriolet/S8
Chorus = Audi S4 Cabriolet/S6
Centaur = Audi A4
Veloce = VW Passat
Mirage = VW Jetta
Zenon = VW Polo

[Meaux]

I've read anecdotal reports that the lower groups (below 105) are less durable and reliable, though I have no personal experience to verify that. There are significant weight differences and that's a lot of what you pay for honestly.

My Giant is Sora-equipped. I love the bike but Sora is no good. The shifting was, to put it nicely, less than fun. I have an all 105-equipped bike and the difference is like night and day. It shifts like buttah, baby, buttah. Spend the extra money if you can.

[KnottedYet]

Love my Campy Athena (old stuff, equivalent pretty much to Centaur) Campy just keeps going and going and going...

Not that I'm a Campy-only kind of gal, oh no! I've got mixed Shimano and Campy on both my road bikes.

[Zen]

I've got mixed Shimano and Campy on both my road bikes.

That's still not legal in some states ;)

[Beane]

I only focused on Shimano because that's what Idealmuse asked about. I agree with Zen that Deore XT is a Tundra and Deore is a Tacoma PreRunner.

I'm not up on my Maserti models, otherwise I'd give Campy a try.

EDIT: but I am up on my Audi/VW models for Campy comparison (from high to low)

Record = Audi RS4 Cabriolet/S8
Chorus = Audi S4 Cabriolet/S6
Centaur = Audi A4
Veloce = VW Passat
Mirage = VW Jetta
Zenon = VW Polo


my bike components (centaur) are relatively better than my car (Jetta)... :)

[Starfish]

Wait...

So my bike is a Toyota Tundra in the back and a Toyota Camry in the front!?!

OH NO!!! My bike has a mullet!!!:eek::eek::eek:

[KnottedYet]

OH NO!!! My bike has a mullet!!!:eek::eek::eek:

Starfish, you are SO FUNNY!!! You made me snort! :p

[Fredwina]

Where does Deore fit into this? Putting it like this is very helpful, tulip. Thanks!
let's try this (and I may get it wrong :o )
Dura-Ace XTR
Ultegra deore XT
105 deore LX
Tiarga Deore
Sora Alivo
2200 Acera
? altus
? Tourney(*mart level)

[Zen]

i like that, Fredwina.

I think I'll clip it out and carry it around for quick reference :D

[alpinerabbit]

Then there's the new Ultegra SL.

Which I am getting on my new ride. That would be the "turbo" version of Ultegra/Insert car of choice, with metallic paint or summat.

Except that I'm installing an SRAM cassette. So I am, GASP! Mixing brands!

Shimano only provides road cassettes up to 27 cogs.
Campy up to 29. What I had so far.
SRAM cassettes go up to 28 and that's what I'm getting.

So other than weight, I guess gearing options will be something to look out for?

I always thought or Record/DuraAce = Porsche and Chorus/Ultegra = BMW (although Chorus a higher series BMW than Ultegra).


Now what is Triple vs. Double vs. Compact???


May I also add that I visually detest the dial thingy on XT shifters?

[tulip]

And the BEST thing is that they are all NO EMISSION vehicles!

[tulip]

Starfish, you are SO FUNNY!!! You made me snort! :p

Me too! I actually snorted!:)

[Andrea]

^Alpinerabbit- If you're not planning on sprinting to win races or achieving break-neck speeds on descents, I'd say the compact is the way to go! The crank I'm replacing on my bike this afternoon is a compact, and I really liked it except for when I'd max it out in either of those previously mentioned situations :rolleyes:

Just to widen your options, FSA makes a 52 tooth chainring that will fit a compact BCD (bolt circle diameter- the part that attaches the crank to the rings). So, if you wanted a huge range of gears, you could go with a 52/36 compact in front (rather than the typical 50/36) and the gearing of your choice in back (personally, I'm a fan of an 11/26). I was going to go with that setup until I fell in love with the Red group & got a killer deal on a build kit.

[alpinerabbit]

Thanks dear,

I was mainly commenting on "componentry vs. car nomenclature". Perhaps regular double is a tuned Ford Mustang, Triple is an SUV and compact double is... well I'm not that into cars. Something small that goes up mountains, anyway.

I am set on what I want - getting 50-34 / 12-28. Even better for the mountains I climb / the power I have compared to these ambitions - 36-26 would not be enough. I am not at all worried on the high end - 50 is peachy for me.
I disliked Shimano shifters so far because of the bug antennae-like wiring. Now I am getting Nokon cables and they just hide away. Almost like my old Campy.

[rij73]

What are Nokon cables? Do they make it possible to route shifting cables under the bar tape? That would be very :cool:

I'm loving the creative responses on this thread... FWIW, I went with 105 except for the R700 shifters (they are short reach for small hands and Ultegra-level) and the R700 compact crankset (also Ultegra level). These are 2007 parts. I think that for 2008 you can get a compact crank at any parts level.

[alpinerabbit]

Correct. These are cables or, more specifically housings that allow very sharp turns.

http://picture.yatego.com/images/41da6d67019ad2.1/nokon-sti.jpg

Fine German jewellery....

[Starfish]

Me too! I actually snorted!:)

Well, my bike might have a mullet, but you guys snort! ;)

[rij73]

Correct. These are cables or, more specifically housings that allow very sharp turns.
Fine German jewellery....

Oooh... Very purty!

[sundial]

Speaking of 105's, Slipstream boys are using this. They chose 105's over Dura Ace so that their bikes were a legal weight. :)
Now I feel extra zoomy!

[rij73]

Speaking of 105's, Slipstream boys are using this. They chose 105's over Dura Ace so that their bikes were a legal weight. :)
Now I feel extra zoomy!

Seriously? That is completely bizarre... Why not just ride a heavier frame?

[sundial]

I dunno. Maybe they want to think outside the box. ;)

[alpinerabbit]

Seriously? That is completely bizarre... Why not just ride a heavier frame?

Usually they would stick little lead pieces to the saddle.

[rij73]

The new Astana team bikes actually have braze-ons *under* the bottom bracket where you can attach weights. That keeps the added weight low on the bike where it won't impact the center of gravity...

[KnottedYet]

The new Astana team bikes actually have braze-ons *under* the bottom bracket where you can attach weights. That keeps the added weight low on the bike where it won't impact the center of gravity...

Ok, my mind is in a whirl.... spend gazillions of dollars to make a bike lighter, then put lead weights on it for racing..... whew!

[melissam]

Correct. These are cables or, more specifically housings that allow very sharp turns.

http://picture.yatego.com/images/41da6d67019ad2.1/nokon-sti.jpg

Fine German jewellery....

<Sigh> Just when you thought there was nothing left to buy for your bike...

[KnottedYet]

Hmmm, I'll refrain from remarking that Campy makes the whole slick-cable thing extraneous...

(oops, I said it! ;):p)

(oh, man, now I gotta find a pic of my Campy Athena and the "look Ma, no cables" effect for y'all)

[Idealmuse]

OK, so if 105's are basically what I want or better... what Campy level would that translate to do you think?

[KnottedYet]

Centaur?

[melissam]

Hmmm, I'll refrain from remarking that Campy makes the whole slick-cable thing extraneous...

(oops, I said it! ;):p)

I know, I know, but my bike came Shimano-equipped from the factory. At least the slick-cable thingy is a cheaper route than switching to Campy. Or upgrading to the new Shimano group that brings cable-routing back to the aerodynamic advances of the mid-80's. ;)

-- Melissa (who's reminding herself that the problem isn't aerodynamic drag so much as an inefficient motor)

[KnottedYet]

MelissaM - :D:p:D

(me and my olde worlde Campy, we get up to 20 mph on a good day!)

[smilingcat]

I had 2005 campy Centaur and I wasn't too happy. Maybe I'm too sold on Shimano. I didn't like the way it shifted. Chorus may be a better bet.

or SRAM force, which I use on my specialized transition pro '07 and on my k2 mod6.0 '06.

I really like the SRAM FORCE. Maybe Emily can chime in about the SRAM RIVAL.

smilingcat

[VeloVT]

I just tried my new bike on a trainer for the first time. It has 2007 Ultegra and an Ultegra SL crankset (which might be '08? I bought a 2007 bike but had them swap out the cranks). The shifting is amazingly gorgeous. So fast and accurate and very light touch. I had 2004 Ultegra on my other bike and shifting to the big ring required a herculean shove, and, while accurate, was a little sluggish... This is so different. Highly recommended!!!

[PinkBike]

slipstream's felt f-1 bikes are full dura ace according to team mechanic damien shanks at the tour of california

[rij73]

slipstream's felt f-1 bikes are full dura ace according to team mechanic damien shanks at the tour of california

I just read somewhere that it's only the cassettes that are Shimano 105. Just the difference in cassette weight was enough to adjust their bikes for the UCI limit.

[alpinerabbit]

I just tried my new bike on a trainer for the first time. It has 2007 Ultegra and an Ultegra SL crankset (which might be '08? I bought a 2007 bike but had them swap out the cranks). The shifting is amazingly gorgeous. So fast and accurate and very light touch. I had 2004 Ultegra on my other bike and shifting to the big ring required a herculean shove, and, while accurate, was a little sluggish... This is so different. Highly recommended!!!

Kewl thanks for letting me know my choice was good :D

The price difference of Chorus vs. Ultegra SL, is after all, about a Factor of 1.8 (includes the hefty addition for Campy's carbon crankset)

[Beane]

I know, I know, but my bike came Shimano-equipped from the factory. At least the slick-cable thingy is a cheaper route than switching to Campy. Or upgrading to the new Shimano group that brings cable-routing back to the aerodynamic advances of the mid-80's. ;)

-- Melissa (who's reminding herself that the problem isn't aerodynamic drag so much as an inefficient motor)

wait, so is shimano making new brifters that don't have two cables coming out of the tops of them (bug antennae effect) ?

p.s. ditto on the inefficient motor thing, but, (according to my DH-- so this may be a "DH fun fact") something like 80% of the work you do biking is fighting wind resistance.

[mimitabby]

Your pleasure or displeasure with the Campy Centaur is likely a personal preference. I had campy Veloce (cheaper) on my Bianchi and I never had any trouble with the way it shifted. Due to an unexpected deal at a bike swap, I ended up with Record (I was going to buy Veloce & Centaur for my new bike)
but it just isn't THAT different. I love the way Campy works. Before I had a campy geared bike, I had terrible problems shifting. It was just counter-intuitive to me.

Whatever you get (unless it's awful) you'll get used to it.

I LOVE the sound my bike makes when I am coasting down a hill.

[Starfish]

wait, so is shimano making new brifters that don't have two cables coming out of the tops of them (bug antennae effect) ?

I haven't been in cycling that long, so I am not sure what you are talking about? :confused:

I have Shimano 105. The brake cables don't come outside off the hood at all...they are routed under the bar tape. The shifting cables do come out of the hood, but on the side, on the inside (not off the top).

[alpinerabbit]

:
Originally Posted by Beane

wait, so is shimano making new brifters that don't have two cables coming out of the tops of them (bug antennae effect) ?
I haven't been in cycling that long, so I am not sure what you are talking about?

No, the shimano STI/brake-shift levers are still the same (actually have no clue why they don't ever make it better) - but Nokon makes these cable housings made up of little links, and you have a teflon lining and carbon cables that allow sharp turns without inhibiting them from working. So you get to hide both the brake cable and the gear shift cable under the bar tape.

It's not just for pretty - they say shifting is smoother.

[rij73]

Actually the new Shimano *electronic* Dura-Ace that is being tested in the Pro Tour has very tidy cables all routed under the bar tape. That might be what MelissaM is talking about, but I wouldn't hold my breath for that technology to trickle down to us mortals any time soon. There are some video reviews of it around the web. Fabian Wegmann rode it in the Tour of California. It looks very sweet...

[Idealmuse]

Argh!

I found a really really good inventory sale look you made me go by a campy type bike now.

Javelin Fara - Javelin 7005 butted aluminum frame with carbon seatstays and 11/8" Hammerhead integrated head tube. Featuring Campagnolo Veloce 10-speed Ergo shifting components, Velomax Vista wheelset, and carbon fork.
$600.00 (plus tax and shipping)

did I do good for someone on a budget?

http://www.brittonbikes.com/bikes-2008/javelin/images/06-road/fara.jpg

[Bike Goddess]

Idealmuse- Here's what I know about Campy parts- they are expensive to replace!

I have a 10 speed bike and a 9 speed one. (I have Shimano parts) The 10 speed chain needs adjusting far more frequently than the 9 speed. My 10 speed chain also needs replacing more often than the 9 speed as it is a narrower chain. With that in mind, be sure that you get a chain tool that measures wear and tear on your chain and have the LBS show you how to use it. After chains have been used, they will stretch and eventually not work properly. If you wait too long to replace your chain the rear cassette and chain wheel might also have to be replaced!!!!!! (Maintenance is key here!)

Be sure that you keep your chain clean and lubed. I'm using White Lightning on my 10 speed chain at the moment to see if I can get more mileage out of the chain. I use Pro Lube on the 9 speed chain.

I suggest you keep track of how many miles you have on your bike when it is time to replace your chain.

Congrats on getting a road bike. May you have many happy miles! :):):)

[Idealmuse]

Do you think this one would have been better ($449) It has Shimano... and it's a tri bike (I'm doing 2 tris this summer)

Sizzano
Fork Zero Aero Carbon 1 1/8 Alloy Steer Tube
Headset FSA Orbit DL 1 1/8
Rear Derailleur Shimano 105 9speed
Front Derailleur Shimano 105 9speed
Shift Levers Shimano Dura Ace Bar End
Brake Levers TektroRX 4.0
Brake CalipersTektro423 AG
Bottom Bracket RPM ISIS 9400AL
Crankset RPM 36/50CassetteSram12-25 9speed
Chain KMC 9 Speed
Wheelset Alex DR13 32-hole w/ Sealed Hubs
Tires Kenda Concept
Handlebar Oval R700 Cowhornw/ Oval Slam Clip ons
Bar Tape Zero Carbon
Stem Oval R300
Seatpost Kalloy27.2
Saddle Selle Italia Onda

http://www.brittonbikes.com/bikes-2008/javelin/images/06-multisport/sizzano.jpg

[mimitabby]

Argh!

I found a really really good inventory sale look you made me go by a campy type bike now.

Javelin Fara - Javelin 7005 butted aluminum frame with carbon seatstays and 11/8" Hammerhead integrated head tube. Featuring Campagnolo Veloce 10-speed Ergo shifting components, Velomax Vista wheelset, and carbon fork.
$600.00 (plus tax and shipping)

did I do good for someone on a budget?

http://www.brittonbikes.com/bikes-2008/javelin/images/06-road/fara.jpg


Yes, you did REALLY REALLY well if it's campy veloce. The fact is, you can rebuild all parts. If your shifter breaks, instead of having to buy a new one, you just replace the broken spring or whatever! I hope the bike fits, yes you got a really good deal!

[mimitabby]

and so far the only campy parts i have had to replace were in a wheel hub where the previous owner put in Shimano parts and almost wrecked it. The total cost was about 25 dollars, a lot cheaper than buying a whole new hub.

[Idealmuse]

Yeah I'm gambling on the fit a bit since I have to order it over the phone. When I do my own measurements I come somewhere between a 50cm and a 52cm and the bike is a 51cm. (I'm 5'5)

[Beane]

Actually the new Shimano *electronic* Dura-Ace that is being tested in the Pro Tour has very tidy cables all routed under the bar tape. That might be what MelissaM is talking about, but I wouldn't hold my breath for that technology to trickle down to us mortals any time soon. There are some video reviews of it around the web. Fabian Wegmann rode it in the Tour of California. It looks very sweet...

Ah, I see. thanks.

[mimitabby]

Yeah I'm gambling on the fit a bit since I have to order it over the phone. When I do my own measurements I come somewhere between a 50cm and a 52cm and the bike is a 51cm. (I'm 5'5)

well, hopefully you're young and supple and have a long torso.

good luck, we want to hear all about it when you get it.

[melissam]

wait, so is shimano making new brifters that don't have two cables coming out of the tops of them (bug antennae effect) ?

p.s. ditto on the inefficient motor thing, but, (according to my DH-- so this may be a "DH fun fact") something like 80% of the work you do biking is fighting wind resistance.


Actually the new Shimano *electronic* Dura-Ace that is being tested in the Pro Tour has very tidy cables all routed under the bar tape. That might be what MelissaM is talking about, but I wouldn't hold my breath for that technology to trickle down to us mortals any time soon. There are some video reviews of it around the web. Fabian Wegmann rode it in the Tour of California. It looks very sweet...

Kudos to rij73 for making some sense of what I was talking about -- sometimes it's hard for me to know what I'm talking about, never mind a third party. ;)

I thought I'd read somewhere that Shimano's new brifters were going to change to the undertape/aero cable routing for brakes and derailleurs. Of course, now I can't remember my source, and a quick search on Google and the Shimano site didn't give me much help.

I probably saw a reference to the electronic Dura Ace that rij73 mentioned and mistakenly thought they were doing it for all of their new stuff.

Sorry for the confusion, back to your regularly scheduled discussion...

-- Melissa

[smilingcat]

Hi Idealmuse,

you did better with the Fara than Sizzano. Unless you are experienced rider, a bike with bull horn and clip ons (Sizzano) are going to be harder to steer and shift at the same time. You'll be much happier with the drop bar.

And I don't think you will be planning on racing TTs anytime soon. Also in many of the organized rides "fun rides" "fund raising rides" like MS150 and TNT rides, I don't think they allow bikes with clip-ons. It can be seen as showing up in bad form. Drop bar is definitly much better.

smilingcat

[tc1]

So, what's the component ranking based on the American car scale? :confused: Japanese cars say to me overrated, overpriced and too small.

[tulip]

So, what's the component ranking based on the American car scale? :confused: Japanese cars say to me overrated, overpriced and too small.

:confused: Overrated? Why are they the best selling cars in the country? Overpriced? I was at a car show today, and a Honda Accord is $25k and a an equivalent Buick is $33k. Too small? How about American cars being massive, gas-guzzling, hulks (except for the Ford Focus, which I actually like)?

Japanese cars say to me: well-designed, efficient, reliable, high-quality, same as Japanese (and Italian) bicycle components.

But I drive a German car, so what do I know?;)

[mimitabby]

So, what's the component ranking based on the American car scale? :confused: Japanese cars say to me overrated, overpriced and too small.

yeah and those of us that drive them are laughing all the way home from the gas station.

[Andrea]

^Honda Fit Represent!!!^

[DirtDiva]

Too small? How about American cars being massive, gas-guzzling, hulks (except for the Ford Focus, which I actually like)?

The Focus is, of course, actually European... :cool:

[elk]

hey, can I bore you guys and ask what the difference in Shimano vs Campy shifting is?
:o
Why is Campy NOT counterintuitive?

[mimitabby]

Elk, TO ME Shimano is counterintuitive.

That doesn't mean it will be for you.

Between Campy and Shimano one hand goes up instead of down in gears. I am really having trouble expressing this; but I want you to know that there are millions of happy Shimano riders who don't have MY problem.

[VeloVT]

Elk, TO ME Shimano is counterintuitive.

That doesn't mean it will be for you.

Between Campy and Shimano one hand goes up instead of down in gears. I am really having trouble expressing this; but I want you to know that there are millions of happy Shimano riders who don't have MY problem.

With Shimano:
Left hand: big lever shifts into bigger ring (harder gear)
small lever shifts into smaller rings (easier gear)

Right hand: big lever shifts into bigger cogs (easier gears)
small lever shifts into smaller cogs (harder gears)

So big lever means harder gears in front, but it means easier gears in back, and exactly the opposite for small lever.

Is this what you mean, Mimi? How is Campy different?

[Thorn]

I am really having trouble expressing this; but I want you to know that there are millions of happy Shimano riders who don't have MY problem.

I do! I do! I never shift incorrectly Campy (ok, if I've been riding Shimano and I just get on Campy it takes a minute or two)....thumb goes down, lever goes up. Simple. Shimano? Do I want the inside or the outside lever? I screw it up at least once a ride and that is too often for me. SRAM? Oh, I can't imagine I'd ever get that right.

I used to think I was just uncoordinated, but now I liken it to a right-left mild dyslexic sort of thing. Hard to explain, but I often get things backwards--e.g., say right when I mean left. I always have to think through and derive the answer. Campy doesn't require much deriving--push the button down to go down; push the lever up to go up. Shimano requires deriving and has that right/left thing and when I'm tired I can't derive.

[elk]

Thanks! Liza and Thorn!

It sounds like the difference between shifting my road bike and my commuter (which has an internal hub)...the road bike has "brifters" and I have to decide whether to push the big or little lever inwards on both sides, whereas my IG shifter is up or down...

I also have that left/right huh? problem...and I have been studying my shifters by making drawings to get ready to get back on...!!!HOnest! And I've been driving a manula car all my life.

IOW...I think if i ever get ta choose, I might really like the Campy....and now I understand why counterintuitive was the right word Mimi.

[rij73]

OK, since this has become a Campy v. Shimano thread :p here is a question I've always wanted to ask. Is it possible to shift both ways while in the drops on Campy? I've seen Campy bikes in bike shops before, and I could never understand why the buttons on the hoods are as good as or better than shifting at the lever. I would think that especially for racers who spend a lot of time in the drops, the Shimano style would be more convenient, but am I missing something?

[Starfish]

OK, since this has become a Campy v. Shimano thread :p here is a question I've always wanted to ask. Is it possible to shift both ways while in the drops on Campy? I've seen Campy bikes in bike shops before, and I could never understand why the buttons on the hoods are as good as or better than shifting at the lever. I would think that especially for racers who spend a lot of time in the drops, the Shimano style would be more convenient, but am I missing something?

I have always wondered this, too! :)

[KnottedYet]

I have a challenging time shifting from the drops, the button is a bit of a stretch for my hands from there. I let go of the drop and slide my hand up the curve a little to reach.

Getting Salsa Short-n-Shallow bars made it much easier, though.

[DirtDiva]

With Shimano, the direction you push the brake lever is the direction the chain moves. Much easier way of remembering than lefts and rights. :)

[alpinerabbit]

Is it possible to shift both ways while in the drops on Campy?

In a word, yes.

[elk]

With Shimano, the direction you push the brake lever is the direction the chain moves. Much easier way of remembering than lefts and rights. :)

but but but...i can only push them one way...the big lever moves you one way and the small one the other...???? But they both go the same direction.

[Andrea]

SRAM Doubletap is actually really easy to learn. And you'll be addicted to how easily it shifts from the small ring to the big ring :D

Sorry, I just got SRAM, and I'm addicted

[Thorn]

Getting Salsa Short-n-Shallow bars made it much easier, though.

Yep.....my FSA wing pro (short drop, but not as short as the Salsa) make it easy. To be honest, I was surprised that I could because I cannot shift my Shimano from the drops. However, that's really the difference between a bike that fits (my Campy equipped) and a bike that doesn't fit (my Shimano equipped) and not a difference in the shifter style.

[rij73]

Wait, so how exactly is the button reached? You can reach it with your thumb? I just have a hard time picturing it...

[Thorn]

Wait, so how exactly is the button reached? You can reach it with your thumb? I just have a hard time picturing it...

Exactly. I really, really would never have believed that I could have hit the button from the drops, but with the right position and the right bars, it just works.

But, that said, I had a good fitter for the frame and a good mechanic helped me pick out the handlebars that would work. In the past, I rented a bike with Campy and I rarely was in the drops (mediocre fit because it was a rental). I don't think I could even reach the break levers. With my new bike I can use the drops comfortably (yes, I'm still gushing over this bike's fit--it is amazing!) and the shifters work from the drops.

[mimitabby]

This ranks as the most confusing thread I have ever read!!!

And no, I can't explain how Campy is different, but today when I'm riding to Bike Expo, i'm going to try to figure out what I am doing so I can tell you guys.


:confused::confused::confused:

[rij73]

LOL, mimitabby... :D

[VeloVT]

I actually don't find Shimano counterintuitive, but it took me a long time to be able to talk about "shifting up" and "shifting down" without getting really confused (since oftentimes, in order to "shift down" -- into an easier gear -- you LITERALLY have to shift "up" through the cogs). Finally got my head around it though :o.

I think it's one of those things that you have to not think too hard about. Sort of like which way to loosen your pedals. People get all confused because on one side of the bike it's clockwise and on the other side it's counterclockwise, and it's hard to remember whether left is clockwise or counter, and vice versa -- but the better, non-confusing way to think about it is that you loosen in the opposite direction from the direction you pedal... Ergo, always loosen towards the back of the bike.

[rij73]

Liza, I don't find it counter-intuitive either. When I shift, I picture what the chain is doing, and since I understand how the position of the chain affects the gear, I do fine. The problem is, I cannot explain it or talk about it at all. :p

[KnottedYet]

someone posted the best pedal mnemotic *ever* a while back, and I use it all the time now: Forward, onward; back off. (that's the direction of the pedal wrench)

[mimitabby]

Okay
here's the deal. on my bike which is campy-equipped, i have a long lever on the front of the handlebars which is also a brake. There is one of those on each side, and on the inside of that there's a little thumb lever.
now, when you want to move the chain of your Campy equipped bike to the left, you move the right button or right lever towards the direction you want your chain to go.

That's all there is to it!

The left hand operates the 3 big chain rings. When I want the chain to go up to the big ring to go really fast, I just shove that left lever over to the right; where it is; and it goes there.
The right hand does the same thing. When I want to push the chain up to the big ring in the back, to go up a hill, i just push that lever to the left.

I don't believe that's how the Shimano stuff worked.

[mimitabby]

bump - I was wondering if anyone was going to comment on my post after all that hard work figuring it out! :D:D:D:p

[mkidd]

I've been following this great thread--this is Bike Parts U!

But I've never seen/used anything but Shimano (or this weird dial thing for the gears on my mtn bike). I'll be really cool to check out people's bikes this season and to actiually know there are other systems out there to look for!

[elk]

Mimi
that sounds exactly (?) like my Shimano....only I wouldn't call the mini lever a thumb button...it's a mini lever that operates the same as the maxi...

so I guess I'm a little confused about the smaller button...I need a photo....

[rij73]

Yes, it took me a minute to think it through, but I believe Mimi's description of the Campy lever function equals the function of the brake lever on Shimano. Then, where Campy uses the thumb button, Shimano uses the second, inside lever. I can see now where a Campy user would get really confused on Shimano, since their inside lever does what our large lever does. I think I finally understand it all now! Phew! :eek:

[mimitabby]

Yes, it took me a minute to think it through, but I believe Mimi's description of the Campy lever function equals the function of the brake lever on Shimano. Then, where Campy uses the thumb button, Shimano uses the second, inside lever. I can see now where a Campy user would get really confused on Shimano, since their inside lever does what our large lever does. I think I finally understand it all now! Phew! :eek:

I'm glad YOU do! (because according to Elk, they are the same, and I know they aren't )

[elk]

No...I know they're not the same, I just can't quite SEE the difference...I need to go find a picture...

[rij73]

Yes, here is how I would try to put it succinctly:

paddle-inside-the-brake-lever on Campy = Shimano full-brake-lever

Campy thumb-button = paddle-inside-the-brake-lever on Shimano

Campy
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:TFw2gQspZmEWlM:http://store.airbomb.com/mmAirbomb/Images/large/q/LD9780.jpg note the thumb button on the inside of each hood

Shimano
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:_McSVpHH0Lqu7M:http://noahsarkbikes.co.uk/zencart/images/shimano/ST7803.jpg

[Idealmuse]

Thanks for posting the pictures. I think I like the Thumb button concept better - less confusion that way, but we will see how I feel when the bike gets here.

They were supposed to ship it today and it's fairly local so it should be only a few days. I went with the Fara (This black and white one at the beginning of the thread) which is campy veloce.

On my MTB I have the old fashioned #'ed gear. (Don't know what those are called) so either road bike shifting is going to take some practice for me.

Any shifting tips?

[mimitabby]

you might go to Sheldon Brown's website for shifting tips.

But.... start off with easy gears. you're getting a triple.
on the lowest gear in the front (the little one) use only the big gears in the back.
on the middle gear in the front, you can use ALL gears in the back. On the big gear in the front, don't try to use the lower 3 gears (bigger 3 gears) on the back.

If this is all confusing, when you get the bike, turn it upside down and put it through its gears while you are watching (or put it on a work stand)

and expect to throw your chain a few times while you're getting used to it.

[mkidd]

Since you mention throwing the chain...would I be revealing exactly how much of a newbie I am if ask why this happens?

The bike portion of my first Tri, Danskin Webster (New England) is v. v. hilly. They say about 80% get off and walk.

I actually was thrilled to have made it through the hardest parts by using my granny gear when I needed it, but about mile 9 I lost my chain (on a decline actually) and this never haapened during training so not only did I have no idea how to get it back on, but I'm not really sure why it happened.

Luckily it was right at an intersection so there were race helpers there who helped me, but how do I avoid it for future?

[elk]

Yes, here is how I would try to put it succinctly:

paddle-inside-the-brake-lever on Campy = Shimano full-brake-lever

Campy thumb-button = paddle-inside-the-brake-lever on Shimano

Campy
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:TFw2gQspZmEWlM:http://store.airbomb.com/mmAirbomb/Images/large/q/LD9780.jpg note the thumb button on the inside of each hood

Shimano
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:_McSVpHH0Lqu7M:http://noahsarkbikes.co.uk/zencart/images/shimano/ST7803.jpg

Got it! That looks GOOOOD! And now Mimi's description makes perfect sense.

[Idealmuse]

Hi girls - The Javalin bike came. I need to get it assembled and I need some pedals. I want SPD with a platform... Will Crank Brothers Mallet C work? I found a deal that comes with the pedals and some shoes for $80.00. I already have SPD road shoes but they have no traction on the bottom - not so safe for riding around Chicago.

[mimitabby]

Since you mention throwing the chain...would I be revealing exactly how much of a newbie I am if ask why this happens?

I actually was thrilled to have made it through the hardest parts by using my granny gear when I needed it, but about mile 9 I lost my chain (on a decline actually) and this never haapened during training so not only did I have no idea how to get it back on, but I'm not really sure why it happened.

Luckily it was right at an intersection so there were race helpers there who helped me, but how do I avoid it for future?

Because as a newby (well, if you're like ME) you will not remember WHAT gear you're in when you are suddenly confronted with a hill, and you will try to drop down to the granny gear on one end but still have it in high gear on the other. The chain/chainrings are not designed for this, and often the chain will just pop off.

What happened to YOU seems odd, and I can't answer the question. You might have been in the wrong gear; but it usually happens to me on the uphill.

and did you learn how to put your chain on?

also, it helps to change gears BEFORE you are on that 10% grade, so thinking ahead is something that you will learn too.

[rij73]

Hi girls - The Javalin bike came. I need to get it assembled and I need some pedals. I want SPD with a platform... Will Crank Brothers Mallet C work? I found a deal that comes with the pedals and some shoes for $80.00. I already have SPD road shoes but they have no traction on the bottom - not so safe for riding around Chicago.

Wow, the bike came fast! Keep us posted on how it looks and rides... Shoes and pedals for $80 is cheap if the pedals are good and the shoes fit! :)

[Idealmuse]

Sorry I never updated. Love LOVE the Javelin Fara bike. It got me through both a Sprint and International Tri last summer, and I'm working on my second International this summer.

I need to take it in for a tune-up as I'm having some trouble shifting between the rings and it's about that time anyway (hence have been mostly riding on the large ring which in flat Chicago isn't a problem)

But thanks a million to everyone who helped me pick out the right one for me last year. It was a killer deal and I couldn't be more pleased. I had a proper bike fit done and while the frame is a weeeee bit too big, it hasn't been an issue. It's worlds more comfortable then my Hard Rock was. I used to suffer from constantly numb hands on that beast.

I also love how stupidly light the bike is. Someone offered to help me carry it up the El Steps (Elevated Subway) and I had to tell the guy no it was silly light.

Thanks again!