29'ers

[sundial]

In the March issue of Velo News, there's an article about the 29'er revolution.

Jeremy Horgan-Kobelski endorses the 29'ers over the 26 in racing. He adds that the bike rides smoother and longer over rough terrain with both bigger and smaller volume tires. And he rides a hardtail. "You get the advantages of full suspension with the response of a hardtail," he said.

Hmmmmm, could this be a nice compromise for hardtail enthusiasts that want a more cush ride without sacrificing weight?

Any of you dirt girls a 29'er?

[SadieKate]

There are a lot of geometry compromises for short folks. Stand-over, top tube length, etc.

I couldn't give a darn what the toe overlap is on a road bike, but I sure do on a mountain bike.

http://www.ninerbikes.com/ninerfaq.html

If you're taller, they can be great.

[sundial]

You know, my hubby has a Gary Fisher 29'er and I rode it. Honestly, I would rather sit closer to the ground and feel the road. I guess I'm a masochist.

[SadieKate]

Why does that make you a masochist?

[sundial]

I guess I like bouncing and getting jarred. :)

[7rider]

Seems like all the cool kids these days ride 29'ers.
And if you're REALLY cool, you ride a rigid, singlespeed 29'er.
I've heard - but have not first hand knowledge - that the steering/handling is more sluggish on a 29'er.
I'd love to try a REALLY cool bike...but my LBS says "Try it first. You may not like it." So if they're lending, I'll be trying. But I guess I won't be buyin' before ridin'.

[madisongrrl]

This point might be up for debate, but I'm of the opinion that there is zero advantage to riding a 29er for people who are shorter like me (5'3"). And I've seen some short women on these bikes and they look ridiculous; their bikes do not fit them.

Toe overlap on a mountain bike....forget that. I don't even have toe overlap on my CX bike....

People could easily cushion up their hardtails with a set of tubeless tires and run some lower tire pressure.

I'm lucky, I live in WI. We have the similar types of terrain as people in Colorado do, but we don't have the sustained climbing. So there is not much advantage of racing with a hardtail over a full. So no 29ers or HT's for me!

[sundial]

This point might be up for debate, but I'm of the opinion that there is zero advantage to riding a 29er for people who are shorter like me (5'3").

I've heard the same from my LBS. I think Gary Fisher designed the forks on the 29'ers so that there wouldn't be any toe overlap. Specialized is slowly introducing 29'er and I'll be interested to read the reviews.

Right now I'm thinking about the practical side of a 29'er. Tubes may be hard to come by in a pinch, as well as rims. It may take me longer to cover the same amount of distance, but at least I'll be more nimble on turns.

[Voodoo Sally]

Some of my fellow chicks here got 29ers last year. They really seem to love them. They like the less-bumpy feel and they say the roll over the rocks and roots (mostly what we ride on in these parts) with less effort. These gals are on the medium to short side, and they seem handle the bikes well.

[SadieKate]

You guys should read the FAQs in that link I provided. It specifically addresses problems for short folk. I've yet to see a 29'er that I didn't think would create other problems while only offering one benefit.

[madisongrrl]

I've heard the same from my LBS. I think Gary Fisher designed the forks on the 29'ers so that there wouldn't be any toe overlap. Specialized is slowly introducing 29'er and I'll be interested to read the reviews.

The room for standover height and wheels decreases as the size of the 29er frame decreases. Sometimes when frame builders make corrections for toe overlap on these smaller sized frames, it comes at the compromise of something else. This can result in the bike handling completely different or squirrelly even.

I'm still not sold on the 29er concept for short people, but I'd certainly be interested in testing a few of these bikes off-road.

[emily_in_nc]

Lessee, I ride a Bike Friday with 20" wheels, a road bike with 650c wheels, and a mountain bike with 26" wheels. I am 5' 1-1/2". I simply can't imagine how I would begin to fit on a bike with 29" wheels without looking and feeling ridiculous, not to mention having major handling issues. Fortunately, I have no need to replace my MTB, so it's a non-issue, just one that makes me say ...huhhhhh? :confused:

I would love to see a photo of a gal my size riding one!

Emily

[sundial]

You guys should read the FAQs in that link I provided. It specifically addresses problems for short folk. I've yet to see a 29'er that I didn't think would create other problems while only offering one benefit.

OK, just for reference here's the pros and cons as listed on www.ninerbikes.com


What are the pros and cons of a 29” wheel?

The 29” wheel has many pros and not as many cons. Most of the cons of the 29” wheel are misconceptions or can be addressed with proper geometry and wheel/tire choice. The Pros are as follows: 1. More stability. 29” wheels have more gyroscopic effect than their 26” wheeled little brothers, keeping the bike stable at speeds. In addition, the rider on a 29” wheel bike has a lower center of gravity in relationship to the wheel’s axle. The lower the center of gravity, the more stable the platform becomes. Think of it as riding “in” the bike, instead of on top of the bike. 2. Better grip. The contact patch of the 29” wheel is larger and therefore puts more of the tread on the ground which increases traction. This combined with the added stability of the gyroscopic effect means that you can lean into a corner and just hold on for the ride. As you learn to trust the Niner in the corners, you’ll be amazed at how far over the bike can lean and maintain traction. Let off those brakes and let the Niner take you for an amazing ride. 3. Faster, more controlled descending. The larger the tire, the more the bike will float above the terrain instead of getting stuck down in the terrain. Think of it like a monster truck being able to get up and over the top of cars with those huge honking wheels as apposed to a skateboard wheel that locks up on a small rock (this is an extreme example, obviously). The 29” wheel just doesn’t get caught in the ruts of technical terrain. 4. Added comfort. The 29” wheel allows for more compliance, damping the terrain and adding more comfort to the ride. 5. Better control. Because of all of the above traits, Niner’s simply have more control than their 26” wheel brethren do. The cons are as follows (and addressed as to their validity) 1. Added weight. The larger the wheel, the heavier it will be. This is true to an extent; however it depends on the wheel and tire choice used. Many 29” wheels have gotten down in weight and there are some extremely light tires now out on the market. Frame weight difference between a 29” wheel bike and a 26” wheel bike is nominal. 2. Slower acceleration. This is due in part to the above mentioned higher weight in the wheels. Lighter wheels and tires will help this, however, the larger the wheel, the harder it is to get up to speed if looked at scientifically. Many people have noticed this to be true on single speed starts, but they only notice in the first few pedal strokes. Once up to speed, the 29” wheel maintains its momentum much better than a 26” wheel. On a geared bike, the difference is imperceptible. 3. Slower handling. This is a misconception. Many of the early generation 29” wheel mountain bikes just adopted the standard 26” wheel geometry and made it longer to fit the 29” wheel, causing excessive wheelbase length, slack head tubes with bad fork trail, and high bottom bracket heights. Niner bikes geometry is designed around the 29” wheel and is every bit as agile as a 26” wheel bike. Tight switchbacks and technical terrain are no problem on a Niner.

And another question about short(er) riders:


Are 29” wheels just for tall people?

Quite simply, no. They definitely make a larger bike look more correctly proportioned to the rider, but many people under average height ride 29ers and are totally stoked with the ride. Chris Sugai, co-founder of Niner bikes is 5’ 6” and his enthusiasm for the bigger wheels is contagious. The benefits that apply to the larger wheel are noticeable no matter what your height. That being said, riders under 5’ 4” are likely to find fitting a 29er a little more difficult. As the frame gets smaller, there are other issues that the larger wheel will bring up such as toe overlap to the front wheel and standover height. Standover height can easily be addressed with bent top tubes and other means, but the top tube length can only get so short before your toe starts hitting the front wheel while turning.

SadieKate, will we see you on a Niner?

[SadieKate]

You're saying that facetiously, right?

-- signed Short and Stumpy

[sundial]

The Niner is a classy looking bike. Why not pair it with a classy chick? :)

[ima_bleeder]

I've never thought of myself as tall, but based on the responses here I must be a giant. I'm 5'4", and I absolutely adore my 29er.

My standover clearance is the same (more actually) than my last 26" MTB, and the overall fit is better too. Of course that just points to a poor fit on my first bike, and isn't a statement on 26" bikes in general. But at 5'4" I was able to comfortably fit on, and test-ride, several 29ers. I think 5'3" / 5'4" is about the limit though to comfortably fit on a 29er.

From the moment I got on my 29er I felt more comfortable and confident. I love the way it handles, and I saw an immediate gain in my riding. In fact I didn't really start riding consistently until I got my Niner. Now I'm so in love with it I ride 3 - 4 days a week.

I do have one criticism though. It's mostly me, really, but due to my lack of strength (I'm still building my base) and a bad knee the gearing was too high. The crankset on a 29er is the same as on your 26" bike, but the wheels are bigger. So effectively your gearing is higher, and I lost my really low gears for the long steep climbs. We tried replacing the small 22 tooth ring with a smaller 20 tooth ring, but kept having problems with the chain. Turned out the chain was hitting the part of the crank that houses the bolts. We were able to fix it by shaving down those knobs, so I've got all the gears I want, but if you're a slow climber like me it's a consideration.

[PscyclePath]

I would love to see a photo of a gal my size riding one!

Emily

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t108/TomEzell/29ersforeveryone.jpg

If your bike doesn't fit you (frame size, saddle height, reach, etc., it's not going to be comfortable, and you're not going to like it very much.

I'm not one of the cool kids, but I do have both a Fisher 29er and a 26" Specialized hardtail, and I much prefer the 29er. I'm not a real technical MTB rider -- mostly cross country, and I can go places and cross obstacles and seemingly bottomless pits with my 29er where the 26" would have me dead in a ditch somewheres. As Emily notes, if the frame fits you, it doesn't matter much how big the wheels are.

That being said, the 29er wheels take a little more motor, or oomph to get them rolling, but once you do it's not a lot of extra effort to keep your momentum. And I like the ability to pretty much float over most anything that gets in my way.

Depending on your riding style, you'll probably like it if you try the big wheels. I know I wish I'd listened to Odell over at the bike shop when he tried to guide me over to the 29er rack when I first took up MTBing....

[horsemom]

Hi Gals. I started looking for a MTB a couple years ago after not biking since childhood. I rode many many different bikes with the idea that I wanted a hardtail to learn on - never really thinking about the size of the tire. One astute bike shop owner put me on a Gary Fisher Cobia 29er, and within a few minutes, I knew I had found my bike. I am 5'8" with a powerful leg, and like a previous poster, I found that it took a little more muscle to get going, but once on the way, the larger wheels took less to power and smoothed out the bumps, rolling over things I had trouble with on a regular size bike. The stand over is the same as with 26 inch wheels. One difference may be the length of the top tube to accomidate the wheels. I have fairly long arms, and prefer the longer reach, even on my road bike.

Anyway, I love my bike. 'Sally', btw. Mustang Sally, because she ain't no A-rab (the breed I ride in endurance races).

Laura

[sundial]

I do have one criticism though. It's mostly me, really, but due to my lack of strength (I'm still building my base) and a bad knee the gearing was too high.

Ima, I'm glad you posted this because I have a bad knee. I'm curious, what 29'er do you have? Was it easier for you to ride a 26" with the bad knee?

[emily_in_nc]

I actually have a bit of toe overlap on my 650c bike since it's got quite a short top tube, which I need. But I would never, ever ride a MTB with toe overlap since sharp turns at slow speed are often necessary. And that photo, well, it looks like a woman riding her husband's or big brother's bike to me...but I'm sure I look equally out of proportion when riding my Bike Friday, so live and let live! :rolleyes:

I must admit, the advantages of the 29" wheel are many, now that I've read the list, but at my height, I'm still not tempted. Nor do I have the money! And I need my low gears.... :D

Emily

[sundial]

Emily, I'm kinda attached to my 26'er too. :)

[ima_bleeder]

Ima, I'm glad you posted this because I have a bad knee. I'm curious, what 29'er do you have? Was it easier for you to ride a 26" with the bad knee?

A lot of people wouldn't even notice a couple of gears. The only reason I did is because of the wonky knee. But now I'm doing PT to strengthen it, and my PT showed me how to tape it for rides (it doesn't track properly). So I find now I don't even need that super-low granny gear quite so much anymore.

So certainly on the steep steady climbs the smaller gearing made it easier on my knees. But I don't know if I'd say it was "easier" to ride a 26er. The 29" wheels made all the technical stuff easier. And now that we've changed the small ring on my 29er, I have my low 26" bike gears back. I told my man that I wanted it all, and he made it happen :D

Oh, I have a Niner e.m.d. (http://ninerbikes.com/emd9.html)
http://lh3.google.com/stephanie.rouse/R2tQN2eEwlI/AAAAAAAAArI/L3r7Uxa25N0/s400/DSCN5250.JPG

[sundial]

That's a really classy bike. You have a GREAT place to ride, too. :) Since I don't have the technical trails that you do, and my knee is crappy from lack of cartilege, I guess for now I'll stick with the 26'er.

[SadieKate]

A lot of people wouldn't even notice a couple of gears. I'd notice one gear. Only the ignorant wouldn't notice because they'd assume all bikes are that way.

As a pro racer I know said, "God made those gears for a reason."

[Tuckervill]

Would 29" wheels make a difference for someone who is extremely tall? (6'7") I've been trying to figure this out. The distance to the ground is not really the issue, but the distance to the top of the saddle to the bottom of the down stroke is. I'm guessing the 29ers don't come with necessarily bigger frames. Would you be able to put 29ers on any bike?

At least he wouldn't look like a clown on a mini-bike!

Karen

[sundial]

Hubby has a Gary Fisher Montare that allows him to put both 700 or 29'er on. For many bikes you can't put 29's on a 26 bike frame because the chain needs to be longer on the 29'er bikes.

I think tall people will like the 29'er bike but us average and shorter folk might actually enjoy the 26 better--for now anyway.

[ima_bleeder]

I'd notice one gear. Only the ignorant wouldn't notice because they'd assume all bikes are that way.

As a pro racer I know said, "God made those gears for a reason."

:D I thought it was just me.

I ride with so many strong riders, including some single-speeders, that I start to feel like a bit of a pansy with all my tiny gears. In fact my husband doesn't understand how it's physically possible to stay upright and ride as slow as I sometimes do going up steep stretches. But that's EXACTLY how I feel. I want every last gear!

[SadieKate]

Would 29" wheels make a difference for someone who is extremely tall? (6'7") I've been trying to figure this out. The distance to the ground is not really the issue, but the distance to the top of the saddle to the bottom of the down stroke is. I'm guessing the 29ers don't come with necessarily bigger frames. Would you be able to put 29ers on any bike?

At least he wouldn't look like a clown on a mini-bike!

KarenA 29" inch wheel is just the mountainbiker's way of avoiding calling it a 700c wheel. OK, let's not get in the details of rim width, but the diameters are the same. It's just an industry thing to use inches for mtb bikes and centimeters for road bikes.

So, the answer is yes and no about using it in the same bike. My husband has a Spot singlespeed with disc brakes. The disc brakes mean no brake pad alignment issues when swapping wheels BUT he uses skinny tires AND a rigid fork when using 700c wheels. He puts a suspension fork on when using knobbies on the 26" wheels. The suspension fork would not provide clearance for the 700c wheel. He also swaps chain ring and chain to accomodate the change in gearing with the larger wheel and the chain length. If you use disc brakes, it really comes down to clearance issues with fork and chain stays.

And, yes, 29'ers can be the way to go for tall people. If a very tall friend came to me and asked what to look for in a mountain bike, I'd certainly bring 29'ers into the discussion.

[sundial]

He puts a suspension fork on when using knobbies on the 26" wheels. The suspension fork would not provide clearance for the 700c wheel. He also swaps chain ring and chain to accomodate the change in gearing with the larger wheel and the chain length. If you use disc brakes, it really comes down to clearance issues with fork and chain stays.

How difficult is it to change out forks? Would it require strong man hands?

[SadieKate]

Nope, not at all. Though this tends to be a seasonal swap out. You wouldn't want to do it very often as it's time consuming.

Bubba runs the 700c slicks during the winter when he's riding pavement. He'll swap to the knobby suspension set up for the summer.

You can see pictures of the bike with its 700c setup here (http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=14252&highlight=wheelbuilding).*

PS - thanks for giving me the opportunity to brag.:p

[madisongrrl]

Nope, not at all. Though this tends to be a seasonal swap out. You wouldn't want to do it very often as it's time consuming.


Question: If I were to swap forks on the same bike would I have to make sure that I had the same type of crown race so it would fit with the headset cups? Or would a generic crown race suffice.

I just completed my first bike build and I was thinking of chaining my fork out (and not buying a new headset just to use the crown race, I just wanted the part I needed for the fork)....but then I thought doing this sounded like too much work. I have a WTB headset and can't find just a crown race from the same company.

[madisongrrl]

How difficult is it to change out forks? Would it require strong man hands?

It's not difficult. But if you bought a new fork, you would have to have the steer tube cut and have the crown race/headset pressed. Once that is done you can change out the fork easily with simple allen tools.

[SadieKate]

Question: If I were to swap forks on the same bike would I have to make sure that I had the same type of crown race so it would fit with the headset cups? Or would a generic crown race suffice.

I just completed my first bike build and I was thinking of chaining my fork out (and not buying a new headset, just trying to find the crown race)....but then I thought doing this sounded like too much work. I have a WTB headset and can't find just a crown race from the same company.I would say, yes you do need to get the same crown race but these days these are sometimes kind of generic.

Have you called WTB or tried their website? Cane Creeks website has all kinds of spare parts available for order though I think they're a bit unusual in that respect. If all else fails, your LBS should be able to get the part.

[madisongrrl]

I would say, yes you do need to get the same crown race but these days these are sometimes kind of generic.

Have you called WTB or tried their website? Cane Creeks website has all kinds of spare parts available for order though I think they're a bit unusual in that respect. If all else fails, your LBS should be able to get the part.

We have a pro deal with WTB, so I've already scoured their 2007 catalog. I have yet to place my order with them this year, so I'll have to check out their 2008 mechandise. I did see the Cane Creek parts and thought about giving that a try.

We definitely have some good bike shops around here, but I've been burned so many times that I tend not to rely on them for much. (I do let one shop change my internal brake cables on my Cervelo Soloist team as it looks like it takes special tools and a whole lot of time and patience to get the job done).

I will say that spent more money than I thought I would building this bike (even with pro deals), so I might just might put the fork situation on hold for now. The parts and tools added up, but it certainly was an education and I'll probably do another one later this year.