back to the cars thread

[mimitabby]

are there really no vehicles out there that carry bikes nicely AND get better than 25 mpg???? (that's pathetic!)

[7rider]

There was a review of the Honda Fit in Car & Driver recently. Photogs were in or around a velodrome (!) I think, and one of the pix showed a road bike, front wheel removed, tucked neatly in the back of that tiny little car. For a little car, reviews have indicated it has a surprising amount of storage. I sat in one at the D.C. Car Show last month. It's a very cool little car, and gets great gas mileage.

[Nokomis]

I love my Mini Cooper S - two bike racks on top (fork mount) and the minimum MPG we get with short distance city driving & bikes on top is 25. They recently released the Clubman which is a touch longer - and if it weren't for the mullet paint job I'd be all over that!

[mimitabby]

yeah, that clubman is cute, but $25,000 for a LITTLE car???

[kat_h]

I have a hyundai accent that fits one bike with the car's back seats folded down. I also have a rack for it that holds two bikes.

[7rider]

I love my Mini Cooper S - two bike racks on top (fork mount) and the minimum MPG we get with short distance city driving & bikes on top is 25. They recently released the Clubman which is a touch longer - and if it weren't for the mullet paint job I'd be all over that!

We also spent a fair bit of time with the Minis at the DC Car show.
DH joneses for a Cooper S in the worst way. :rolleyes:
The Clubman looks really cool.
What makes its paint job a "mullet"??

[mimitabby]

I don't know, i thought the paint was nice. on that Clubman

I probably will NOT buy a new car. The Honda Fit seems nice, but it's rather new.

I just remember how thrilling it was to ROLL our bikes into the Honda ELement we test drove last fall, but the gas mileage is TERRIBLE.

Confession: Raleighdon has a custom bike which is really obnoxious to take the front wheel off of.
Bike racks seriously change gas mileage.

[Kalidurga]

My Honda Civic Coupe gets 30-35mpg and can take a bike in the trunk and as many as will fit on whatever rack's installed. And it was cheap :D

[mimitabby]

My wrecked car is a 1991 honda civic. I love honda civics. But you can't roll a bike into a honda Civic. :(

[Nokomis]

We also spent a fair bit of time with the Minis at the DC Car show.
DH joneses for a Cooper S in the worst way. :rolleyes:
The Clubman looks really cool.
What makes its paint job a "mullet"??

I don't know how the paint was in the car show - but when you order, you have to get a contrasting roof - and the contrast color extends down the back pillars. The online description even details this as 'Business in the front, party in the back' which I believe is the definition of Mullet :D

I'm sure there are other options out there - but I love my Mini & can't imagine driving anything else.

[Zen]

I've seen that paint job before and mullet is an apt description.
Who thinks this stuff up? The same guy who designed the Pontiac Aztec :D

[Tuckervill]

The Honda website shows the Fit with a bike in the back seat with the wheel on (a mountain bike). But that had to be a KID'S bike. My bike would not fit across there, I am certain. I sat in one again last week while I was waiting for my oil change in the E. It's a tiny car and my husband would not fit in the passenger seat.

A roadie friend of mine rolls his bike into the back seat of his Accord, without taking the wheel off. I wouldn't want grease on my seats, though. (I didn't notice any on his, btw.) Accords don't get GREAT gas mileage, though, just so-so.

I am having pump shock every time I fill up my Element, since my diesel Beetle got 40 mpg easy. But I couldn't get a bike in it, in any way.

I'm buying back my son's '96 Civic 4-door 5-speed for my 14 yo to drive eventually. You can bet I'll be driving that 38 mpg puppy around when I don't have any big loads to haul! Maybe a bike will roll in the back seat like the Accord?

Karen

[kelownagirl]

I'm guessing you don't want a mini-van? I get not bad mileage and can carry all the bikes I want when the back seat is out.

[Tuckervill]

OH! Now it's showing the Fit with a full size bike and the wheel off! Somebody caught them!

http://automobiles.honda.com/fit/interior-photos.aspx

Karen

[SheFly]

My wrecked car is a 1991 honda civic. I love honda civics. But you can't roll a bike into a honda Civic. :(

My not-mom van (Toyota Sienna) will roll two tandems inside, and currently has a lifetime average (it's one year old) of 24.5 mph. I typically get 27-28 on it in the summer months.

I have to say, this is the BEST bike car I have ever had!

SheFly

[ehirsch83]

mine does, but it is over 10 years old...
I drive a silly little 1997 ford escort station wagon. I get around 28mpg, more if i turn off the ac, and I just have to fold down my back seats and I can get 2 bikes in, one with wheels. or I can slide one across the back seats if I take off the front wheel.

[DebW]

How about a wagon like the Subaru or VW Passat? Fold down the back seat and one bike can lay in the back without removing any wheels, probably 2 bikes if you put a blanket between them and laid one on top of the other. My Passat gets 26-32 mpg.

[OakLeaf]

I think the operative word here is bikeS. Lots of cars, including my 46 mpg Prius, will carry one bike in the cargo space, without even taking the front wheel off. Put another bike on, and that's when you start to have trouble. And of course the smaller car, the bigger the hit it takes in gas mileage when you start hanging bikes off the outside of it.

The Prius would take two bikes one on top of the other as well, but nothing else would fit in the cargo space then.

[Crankin]

My son has a 2001 Hyundai Accent. It gets like 30-40 mpg and with the back down, you can easily fit a bike or 2 in there (it's a hatch back). He had to rescue my other son all the time when he would get flats and be unprepared when he first started riding. Hyundai is a very nice company that treats its customers well, even if the car they have is a cheaper one.
I guess I'm pragmatic about gas prices. We still pay way less than in other countries. My car gets 19-25 mpg and I'm fine with it. I just don't drive much, except to go to work and most errands are done on the way home. My husband has an SUV (don't shoot me) that we love. It's one of the ones you all make fun of, so I won't say which one. But, we can carry 4 bikes and our canoe (with a bike rack). We also do all of the pick up and delivery of home improvement stuff ourselves. Both of our cars are all wheel drive, which I would not be without here; wouldn't be able to get up our street without it. We want to keep the SUV forever, but not drive it so much, so my husband got a 2 seat sporty car to drive when it's not snowing or we're not out doing some sports stuff. It gets much better mileage and looks cool.

[mimitabby]

what about that ugly SCION? Anyone have one of those?

(I'll check out the passat, thanks)

[Starfish]

Well, I have an Element, and it is true that it does not get great mileage. Better than what I was driving before, though. And, since I travel and camp alone, I like being inside the rig. Also, in this climate of rain, it is nice to camp in the rain and be really snug inside, without all the soggy-tent-drying, etc. This thing is great in the snow, too, and with the space inside, I have found myself enjoying just going up for a day in the snow, knowing I can hang out in the back and warm up with full headroom, computer jack in the back, etc.

The bike and I can both "sleep" inside...and the bike fits great without taking any wheels off, and no need to lay it down, etc. And, I can sleep stretched full out with room to spare for myself, bike, and stuff, and still have room on top for kayak (which is part of the plan for this summer).

Since I do travel alone, and since that has sometimes made me use hotels more than I would like, I will save more than $400 on hotel costs this summer on one already-planned trip alone. And, for instance, tonight I am going camping to get out of town and relax, and with the forecast for rain, I don't know if I would bother if I was tent camping. But, definitely cheaper than renting a cabin on the coast for the night, for instance.

So, of course it all depends on the mix of attributes one wants/needs. I know you made this thread about mileage...just thought I'd chime in with some of the mitigating factors for my car choice.

[Zen]

Shoebox on wheels.
The Fit will carry your alpaca...

[mimitabby]

Well, I have an Element, and it is true that it does not get great mileage. Better than what I was driving before, though. And, since I travel and camp alone, I like being inside the rig. Also, in this climate of rain, it is nice to camp in the rain and be really snug inside, without all the soggy-tent-drying, etc. This thing is great in the snow, too, and with the space inside, I have found myself enjoying just going up for a day in the snow, knowing I can hang out in the back and warm up with full headroom, computer jack in the back, etc.

The bike and I can both "sleep" inside...and the bike fits great without taking any wheels off, and no need to lay it down, etc. And, I can sleep stretched full out with room to spare for myself, bike, and stuff, and still have room on top for kayak (which is part of the plan for this summer).

Since I do travel alone, and since that has sometimes made me use hotels more than I would like, I will save more than $400 on hotel costs this summer on one already-planned trip alone. And, for instance, tonight I am going camping to get out of town and relax, and with the forecast for rain, I don't know if I would bother if I was tent camping. But, definitely cheaper than renting a cabin on the coast for the night, for instance.

So, of course it all depends on the mix of attributes one wants/needs. I know you made this thread about mileage...just thought I'd chime in with some of the mitigating factors for my car choice.

Thanks Starfish, I am appreciating all comments; that's why i started this thread.

[NoNo]

I used to have a MINI (don't even ask about it:mad:) but I now have the Mazda3 5 door. Perfect size. I can fit 2 bikes inside the car and still have a passenger up front. On the highway I easily get 30mpg, maybe more. Nice pick-up and handling, too.

[csr1210]

If you don't mind folding down the back seat (and stacking for more than one bike) our Pontiac Vibe gets 30+. We have a hitch rack for when we want to take more than one bike because I'm not that thrilled stacking or using all the cargo area for bikes on longer trips. It's definitely a love or hate car though! We have one in a screaming orange color and LOVE it!

[Pax]

Starfish - How tall are you? I like the Element but I'm wondering if, at 5'10", I can fit into one for sleeping.

[Aggie_Ama]

I have a Dodge Caliber and with the hatch rack it gets right around 25 mpg. Not a bad little car and cheap. Mine was loaded up for about $18k brand new and now the 2007s are technically 2 years old since they came out in April 2006. I can fit my bike in the back with the seats down and the wheel remove but not DH's. He is 6'2" so his frame is rather large. With 42k on the car my only complaint is it is a little loud. Otherwise it runs like a champ.

Our friend had a Scion, the first ones and he claimed to get 38 mpg. I test drove one and didn't mind it but wasn't in love.

[IFjane]

I guess it's all in our definition of good gas mileage. I traded in a truck on my Element. Had to fork mount bikes in the bed of the truck, still could only carry 3 people at the most (using the incredibly cramped and uncomfortable jump seat), and got a whopping 15 - 18 mpg.

My Element (2006 model bought used) gets 28 local and over 30 traveling. I can't complain. Roll in two bikes, bungee each to one of the "oh s**t" handles, throw in the rest of the gear and take off. I love it love it love it.

[tulip]

I seriously considered the Honda Fit because it's quite large inside. And it's a Honda, which means reliable, reliable, reliable. The mileage is quite good, although not as good as the same car gets in Japan, for some reason (hot topic on the Honda Fit forums).

I love my VW Rabbit, but I wish it came in a diesel. Diesels get much better mileage than gas cars, and there are several biodiesel stations in my area. My Rabbit carries one bike, wheel off, with the seats folded down. I have a rear rack for when I need to carry more bikes. I chose the Rabbit because it had extras like seat heaters and blinkers on the side mirrors, and it's just damn fun to drive (5 speed, yeah). And it's cute, and relatively inexpensive at $17k.

Toyota Matrix was also on my list--lots of room, Toyota reliability, good mileage, good price.

For a pricier vehicle, the Volvo XC-70 is awfully nice. It gets about 25-27 mph

[Starfish]

Starfish - How tall are you? I like the Element but I'm wondering if, at 5'10", I can fit into one for sleeping.

I'm 5'6". You might try asking over at http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/index.php .There are a lot of guys on that forum who love to sleep in their Elements, and I have to believe that some of them are at least 5'10".

[Blueberry]

IFJane - How do you get 28-30 on your Element???:eek::eek::eek:

Mine has *never* seen more than 21. I still love it (and the ability to fit the bikes in is great... but the gas mileage sucks! Mine's a 2005 5 speed.

CA

[Tuckervill]

what about that ugly SCION? Anyone have one of those?

(I'll check out the passat, thanks)

My son just bought a brand new Scion Xb, yesterday. They have changed the body style and now it looks more like a PT Cruiser. I find it more attractive. I'd bet it's not as roomy as it was when it was a toaster. When I get to see inside it, I'll evaluate it for bikiness. :)

Karen

[Tuckervill]

Starfish - How tall are you? I like the Element but I'm wondering if, at 5'10", I can fit into one for sleeping.

A twin size Coleman air mattress will fit in the back, if you push the seats all the way up. My 5'6" son and I sleep in the back of our Element together, but not with the air mattress, because it causes lumps in the wrong places.

Speaking of air mattresses--I saw some in the outdoor store that are designed for pick-up beds. I haven't found one for the Element, yet, but if I do I'll be buying one!


http://www.pickupspecialties.com/Truck_bedz/truck_bedz_truck_bed_air_mattress.htm

Karen

[Pax]

I'm 5'6". You might try asking over at http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/index.php .There are a lot of guys on that forum who love to sleep in their Elements, and I have to believe that some of them are at least 5'10".

Thanks, I'll check out the link.

[MomOnBike]

I'm reading this thread with interest, as DH & I both have big, honkin' long wheel base recumbents. Wheels on, think 6 feet or more long.

So far, the easiest way to transport the bikes is by simply riding them places, but time becomes a factor - like for out of state rides.

I'm sure a solution will come to me eventually...

[7rider]

I'm reading this thread with interest, as DH & I both have big, honkin' long wheel base recumbents. Wheels on, think 6 feet or more long.

So far, the easiest way to transport the bikes is by simply riding them places, but time becomes a factor - like for out of state rides.

I'm sure a solution will come to me eventually...

Hmmmmmm.
Don't think the Honda Fit will work for you! :cool:

How 'bout a long-bed pickup with a cap? Won't get 25 mpg, but you could opt for a diesel.

[Popoki_Nui]

I'm guessing you don't want a mini-van? I get not bad mileage and can carry all the bikes I want when the back seat is out.

I was thinking along the same lines. I have an '06 Caravan short-wheel-base. It gets ~23-24mpg avg city, and I can stuff 3 bikes inside (without touching) and 3 on the roof. Drives like a sports car and hauls like a truck.

[emily_in_nc]

IFJane - How do you get 28-30 on your Element???:eek::eek::eek:

Mine has *never* seen more than 21. I still love it (and the ability to fit the bikes in is great... but the gas mileage sucks! Mine's a 2005 5 speed.

CA

CA -- I noticed we got MUCH better gas mileage in my Element down in Florida (vacationing), because it's flat. I couldn't believe it. Instead of ~300 miles on a tank of gas, we were getting like 350 to 375. So terrain can make a difference. I have the '04 automatic.

I think even here in NC I get more like 23-25 mph, tho, so I am surprised you get even lower in a manual. Most of my driving is on the highway to and from work, tho, so that helps. Not much stop-start driving. Do you have a roof rack? That will hurt you. We have one, but only install it when we need to haul kayaks. Most of the time, greenie's sleek on top. :D

Emily

[silver]

My not-mom van (Toyota Sienna) will roll two tandems inside, and currently has a lifetime average (it's one year old) of 24.5 mph. I typically get 27-28 on it in the summer months.

I have to say, this is the BEST bike car I have ever had!

SheFly

Ditto! My tri-bike van (toyota sienna) will roll 3 bikes in and carry 3 people with tri gear. All inside and comfy, no wheels removed. this is with three of the van seats removed. Pretty much standard operating procedure for my van. What it lacks in style it makes up for in practical. Now if it just had 4 wheel drive. I've never tracked the mileage on it. Mr. guesses 20 to 25 mpg.

[KnottedYet]

I am eagerly awaiting the US arrival of the Subaru diesel.

That's about the only thing I'd be willing to trade in my Impreza for. I have a picture of the diesel engine hanging at my desk at work. (right next to the pics of two of my bikes)

[mimitabby]

i hear what you guys are saying about your assorted vehicles, and then i check the ratings. The average for the Toyota Sienna, for example, is 19mpg. I live in a city.

We already have a pickup truck that can hold the bikes... and gets crummy mileage.
You just made an excellent argument for me against recumbents!! they're too long to fit into a car.

And Emily, it's not flat HERE :confused:

We have considered the Dodge caravan, too, but i really want something LITTLER.

[SlowButSteady]

I traded in my Element a year ago.

I miss it.

Yes, I slept in it, and yes, it carried my bike and other junk admirably. Capacity was close to the big honkin' Ford SUV I had before.

I got a Honda Ridgeline truck. Gas milage about the same as the Element, it seems. I fit my bike crossways in the back seat without taking the front wheel off.

Everyone, esp LBS guys, marvel at its capacity and how I simply stick my bike in the back seat.

Alas, I can't sleep in it, but I can carry alot of stuff.

Difference = aerodynamics?????

I swear I fill my Ridgeline up less often than I did the Element. Once a week. Element's tank was smaller, but in those days I drove more. Probably gassed up every 4 to 5 days.

The Element = a box.

The Ridgeline - air must just flow over it.

[Trek420]

I have a picture of the diesel engine hanging at my desk at work. (right next to the pics of two of my bikes)

No picture of me? Just diesel and bikes? ;) :p

[Tuckervill]

Those Ridgelines are so nice! Boy are they spendy!

I lusted after a Nissan Titan, too, when hubby was looking for a truck. I just can't go $40k for a vehicle--can't justify it in my mind! So we got a Ford F150. It was used and tricked out and cheap and bright red so it works for me! 'specially since I don't have to drive it very often!

Karen



I traded in my Element a year ago.

I miss it.

Yes, I slept in it, and yes, it carried my bike and other junk admirably. Capacity was close to the big honkin' Ford SUV I had before.

I got a Honda Ridgeline truck. Gas milage about the same as the Element, it seems. I fit my bike crossways in the back seat without taking the front wheel off.

Everyone, esp LBS guys, marvel at its capacity and how I simply stick my bike in the back seat.

Alas, I can't sleep in it, but I can carry alot of stuff.

Difference = aerodynamics?????

I swear I fill my Ridgeline up less often than I did the Element. Once a week. Element's tank was smaller, but in those days I drove more. Probably gassed up every 4 to 5 days.

The Element = a box.

The Ridgeline - air must just flow over it.

[Eden]

We have considered the Dodge caravan, too, but i really want something LITTLER.

We were down at SouthCenter the other day so we checked out the new Smart Car dealership. Though I'm dissapointed that the US versions of this car *do not* have the high efficiency Mercedez Benz engines in them, nor do they have the 60 mpg diesel option here, they still do get 30 mpg city and you can get a really sweet looking rear mounted bike rack that takes the bikes with both wheels on and is not very high off the ground (so mounting would be easy).

[SheFly]

i hear what you guys are saying about your assorted vehicles, and then i check the ratings. The average for the Toyota Sienna, for example, is 19mpg. I live in a city.

We already have a pickup truck that can hold the bikes... and gets crummy mileage.
You just made an excellent argument for me against recumbents!! they're too long to fit into a car.

And Emily, it's not flat HERE :confused:

We have considered the Dodge caravan, too, but i really want something LITTLER.

Mimi - I just looked on the Toyota website, and you are right. The mileage listed there for the Sienna STINKS! I've had mine for a year, however, and am vigilant about checking the mileage on every fill up. Worst I have had was around 22 mpg, but I have also hit almost 30. Thus, the lifetime average of 24.5. It is not flat here either, and I drive this up to our Maine house on a regular basis, and to ALL of our races.

I bet it would even hold 'bents - I know it will take the two tandems...

SheFly

[Blueberry]

CA -- I noticed we got MUCH better gas mileage in my Element down in Florida (vacationing), because it's flat. I couldn't believe it. Instead of ~300 miles on a tank of gas, we were getting like 350 to 375. So terrain can make a difference. I have the '04 automatic.

I think even here in NC I get more like 23-25 mph, tho, so I am surprised you get even lower in a manual. Most of my driving is on the highway to and from work, tho, so that helps. Not much stop-start driving. Do you have a roof rack? That will hurt you. We have one, but only install it when we need to haul kayaks. Most of the time, greenie's sleek on top. :D

Emily

We have the cross bars (factory), but I don't recall that the mileage was any better before we had them installed. We don't leave the kayak holders on unless we have kayaks on top (and then we get about 14-15 mpg). We still got 21 on our trip to DC last winter (that's not as flat as Florida, but it's not a hilly drive either). Very strange. We're averaging 260 to a tank, which gets *really* annoying.

[Thorn]

We were down at SouthCenter the other day so we checked out the new Smart Car dealership. Though I'm dissapointed that the US versions of this car *do not* have the high efficiency Mercedez Benz engines in them, nor do they have the 60 mpg diesel option here, they still do get 30 mpg city

Wait a minute....30mpg city? My Civic Hatch beat that 15 years ago. So, if they don't have the high efficiency engine, why buy one? Looks alone? Sigh...perhaps, when they imported it the should have renamed it from the "Smart Car" to the "Just Average, but Cute". Does the international market really think Americans are all superficial, no substance?

[KnottedYet]

Wait a minute....30mpg city? My Civic Hatch beat that 15 years ago. So, if they don't have the high efficiency engine, why buy one? Looks alone? Sigh...perhaps, when they imported it the should have renamed it from the "Smart Car" to the "Just Average, but Cute". Does the international market really think Americans are all superficial, no substance?

I don't think it's the international market keeping the fuel efficient goodies from coming in. We also have trouble getting the efficient engines in our "own" cars. (we can't get the Ford Focus diesel that's so popular in Europe, no matter how much my dealer tried.) Too many protections for the oil lobby gangs right here in the US keeping the goodies out.

[mtbdarby]

Mimi - I could stand my bikes up in my Honda Pilot but it only got low 20's for mileage. Right now I'm looking at an '04 Pontiac Aztek AWD which gets high 20's. I haven't tried to fit my bike in it but the back seats fold down and the trunk is deep so I doubt I'd have a problem either way. Decisions, decisions.

How long will it take for the adjuster to get back to me on my vehicle?? I want to get this cleared up so I can get another car.

[mimitabby]

I love smart cars! the reason why they had to "dumb them down" so to speak was because of our fuel emission standards. The wise folks that imported them also figured they'd make more money selling the more luxurious models of the Smart cars than they would by selling the economical ones (like the ones they sell in Canada!!!) So it's a pretty pricy little car. Our Canadian neighbors have access to a much nicer range of vehicles.

As Thorn said, Honda Civic had that beat 15 years ago.
Yes, that's MY car, a 1991 Honda Civic. (the one that just got smushed) It gets GREAT mileage. Even if I eliminate the requirement of being big enough to comfortably fit bikes, it is really hard to find a replacement for it for under $15,000!!!!

[KnottedYet]

When I was with my ex in Germany a few years ago, her cousin was talking about how they have to upgrade the emissions systems in US cars that come in to Germany. (He wanted to import a new Ford something-or-another) He's an engineer, so I believed him. I'd heard the thing about how we can't get fuel efficient cars here because of the emissions, too... but from the man-on-the-street it sounds like they're more strict there than here.

The Ford Model T got 25 mpg. I can't believe that a hundred years later we can't do much much better! (Hey, somebody link the article in the Seattle Times last week about the car made for a competition in 1970's that got 376 mpg and would get 174 mpg when street legal for 4 passengers)

Edit: I just searched the Times and can't find it...

[7rider]

I don't think it's the oil lobby that keeps diesels out of the U.S.
I think it's a factor of a few things:
1. Americans have awful memories of those loud, stinking, smoke belching diesels of the early '80s and can't get past that. My friend's parents had 2 Oldsmobile diesels in the early 80s...and I remember how dreadful those things were...not to mention having to go out early in the morning on a freezing morning to warm up the glow plugs just so you could start the thing up. Not very practical.
2. Environmental restrictions. Only more recent diesels are clean enough.
3. Availability of diesel at the pump. I could be wrong, but I don't think every corner gas station has diesel...but yeah, that is changing.
4. Marketing. The need to get folks beyond 1-3.
But, jeez....you'd think that with the junk-food scarfing American public...tell them that the exhaust of bio-diesel smells like french fries vs. well..diesel...you'd think they'd be breaking down the doors to get one. :rolleyes:
I had a 1990 Civic, and that thing got 40 mpg on the highway. The 5-speed helps, of course, but yeah...how come we can't do better nearly 20 years later??

[KnottedYet]

I test drove a Volkswagen Golf/Rabbit TDI (diesel). Loved the torque produced by that engine! Zoomed up a hill that my old car couldn't manage above a walking pace.

Wasn't quite roomy enough for a bike *and* stuff, and my mechanic said that VW still required a lot of repairs. But he loved the 4 he owned. (these car guys, man, they have cars like we have bikes!)

My SIL gets 54 mpg with biodiesel in her VW Jetta. I think she said she gets mid-40's with dino-diesel. No room for a bike in that though, unless in the back seat.

If it gets to the US, I gotta check out one of these: http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/automotive_news/4219904.html Volkswagen Polo, 70 mpg.

[Aggie_Ama]

In Texas diesel is readily available at most gas stations due to the diesel pick-ups. However, most dealers carry very few of the available diesel cars. I think the assumption is Texans only want diesel trucks, but I would gladly drive a diesel car if it were quiet enough and held what I wanted. I have sat next to a diesel VW at lights and not heard anything.

[IFjane]

IFJane - How do you get 28-30 on your Element???:eek::eek::eek:

Mine has *never* seen more than 21. I still love it (and the ability to fit the bikes in is great... but the gas mileage sucks! Mine's a 2005 5 speed.

CA


Carrie - I have no idea why it is so good when others are not. We live up next to the BR Mountains so we definitely do not drive on mostly flat roads. My Element is an automatic.

I used to regularly drive my truck 5 - 10 mph over the speed limit and for some reason after I got the Element I try not to exceed the speed limit at all. I live in the boonies and we tend to drive slowly on our back roads. My house is a mile from a paved road so the first/last mile of my commute average about 10 mph. That probably helps!

[Starfish]

I can't help but think the Element mileage is better at slower speeds, even in town or on hills, simply because of the aerodynamics. Think about how exponentially more we have to work to ride our bikes to go from 22 to 25mph, for instance...aerodynamics are more important the faster you go...

Note about the mattress for the element...check out Costco, and also that element owner's forum link I posted earlier...there was a great folding mattress thing that looked great, and that was at Costco. all reports are that it is more comfy than air mattress. I personally dislike air mattresses...much prefer a single futon.

[smilingcat]

I was so excited to see the smart car. then I was soo bummed about the gas milage?? I think I'm going to save for prius or civic hybrid.

I wish smart car could get 50mpg and cost that base cost of around $12,000. :(

But, I'm still going to take a look at smart car. Why can't I get a car with 60MPG. I don't care for 0 to 60 in 4 seconds or whatever but only gets 10MPG.

isn't mini diesel supposed to get good milage too?

smilingcat

[Blueberry]

IFJane-

It may be speeds. My commute is 70mph or you get run over:eek: But there is something about the E - it has slowed me down too. I just don't feel like hurrying - which is a good thing:)

It's nice to know there's hope:) Although, I wonder if the manual is geared for sport more than the auto, and therefore might get worse gas mileage....it's just a guess:confused::confused:

CA

[jobob]

These folks manage to fit a tandem into a Honda Fit:

http://www.blayleys.com/articles/cars/index.htm

[OakLeaf]

Does the ... market really think Americans are all superficial, no substance?

Don't get me started. :rolleyes: It turns out, my Prius even falls into that category, and they sure sucked me right in. My 1983 Nissan Sentra got nearly as good mileage.... without 100+ lbs of lead that will need to be disposed of/recycled at some point in the car's life.

[sgtiger]

The tandem in the Fit is impressive. Had these been out when we purchased DH's car, it's definitely something we would have considered. Now his Civic is paid off and it's nice not having to make payments, otherwise I'd be tempted to trade it in for one of these.:rolleyes:

[Thorn]

Don't get me started. :rolleyes: It turns out, my Prius even falls into that category, and they sure sucked me right in. My 1983 Nissan Sentra got nearly as good mileage.... without 100+ lbs of lead that will need to be disposed of/recycled at some point in the car's life.

Really? Sorry to hear that. I get pretty good mileage in the Prius...summertime is around 58mpg on my 40 mile commute (1/2 60mph freeway; 1/2 35mph streets). But, this winter with our "artic weather patterns", I'm getting around 45mpg because it is just too cold for the gas engine to turn off.

Of course, I got a relatively early V2 Prius. I heard that they started adding bells and whistles such that gas mileage dropped.

[OakLeaf]

It has a lot to do with the kind of driving one does I'm sure. I know people who get much better mileage in their ... oh here's that word again. Priuses? Prii? Prioi? (I prefer the latter even though it ought to go with a singular Prios, not Prius :D)

Up north it's a rural commute. Accelerate to highway speed, go two miles, come to a redlight and stop; repeat x 3. Definite gas mileage killer. Down south, use the car once or twice a week so the battery doesn't stay topped up.

Unfortunately I have a suspicion that the Prius does best in the kind of daily commute where SOMEONE SHOULDN'T BE DRIVING A DANGED CAR AT ALL because it's stop and go urban traffic and you should just take the bus, or the train. Or ride your bike.

... Did I say don't get me started? :o:D

PS are you going by the auto-calculation of the gas mileage, or figuring it yourself? It turns out that my gas mileage doesn't drop near as much in cold weather as the car thinks it does. The fuel tank is a rubber bladder, to reduce evaporative emissions, but it gets much stiffer in the cold, and it throws off the auto-calculations.

[Thorn]

I kept track of mpg using the gallons and miles method early on its life, but then, after learning about the bladder, gave up. The car's values were close enough, but when good old fickle WI winter weather hit, it became impossible. I could fill up when it was 0F and then the next time I needed a fill up it would be 40F. So, I've just come to rely on its reported mileage. Probably wrong, but it is all relative.

Best mileage? Oh, I think it is worse than you have (or is what you mean)....stop and go freeway traffic. If I screw up my departure from work and end up in freeway rush hour, I can easily exceed 70mpg on that segment. Unlike urban driving, you don't have any rough accelerations--just gentle up to speed (if it is <34mph then it is all electric) and coasting to recoup the battery. I've gone 20 minutes on electric.

Thankfully, I only hit that situation once a month or so. Hard to think they built such an interesting piece of engineering for a situation you shouldn't be in in the first place.

[tulip]

It has a lot to do with the kind of driving one does I'm sure. I know people who get much better mileage in their ... oh here's that word again. Priuses? Prii? Prioi? (I prefer the latter even though it ought to go with a singular Prios, not Prius :D)

Up north it's a rural commute. Accelerate to highway speed, go two miles, come to a redlight and stop; repeat x 3. Definite gas mileage killer. Down south, use the car once or twice a week so the battery doesn't stay topped up.

Unfortunately I have a suspicion that the Prius does best in the kind of daily commute where SOMEONE SHOULDN'T BE DRIVING A DANGED CAR AT ALL because it's stop and go urban traffic and you should just take the bus, or the train. Or ride your bike.

... Did I say don't get me started? :o:D

WELL SAID!

[Tuckervill]

I drove a diesel Beetle for a couple of years before it got swept up by the streetsweeper.

It was quiet, not loud. It got 40 mpg, or better if I obeyed the speed limit, which I rarely did. It had heated seats. It started even when it was cold. In really cold climates, they put anti-gel agent in the diesel, so that helps, too. It did NOT like to run out of diesel!

There are lots of diesel pumps--no not on every corner, but if you know where to look you can always find one. Whenever I traveled (and I did cross country a lot), I would try to determine which predominant local company carried diesel in that state, and then make sure to look for those stations. Lots of time the diesel nozzles are on the same stand with the gas pump and if you aren't looking for them you won't notice them. And, you can always wait in line with the big rigs in a pinch (although, sometimes the nozzle dispenses really really fast and you might spill).

I could carry three bikes on a hitch mounted Yakima rack. I frequently took the back seat out, inserted a custom-made platform that leveled everything out, and loaded my gear onto that. If you just had one bike, you could put the back seat down and roll the bike in through the hatch. You could stack two bikes, probably.

I loved all 4 of my Beetles, but I think I loved the diesel best--because of the miles per gallon.

BTW: My Element got really good mileage when I was in Maine for a week last September. I think it had to do with Maine's 50 mph speed limits, though.

Karen

[evangundy]

I'm reading this thread with interest, as DH & I both have big, honkin' long wheel base recumbents. Wheels on, think 6 feet or more long. ...

We also have LWB bents (Easy Racer Gold Rush & TiRush) and I drive a 2001 Chevy Venture. With only 3 seats left in, will carry 3 ER bents, with fairings on, and luggage for week long tour for 3 people. Bike sizes small & medium we can leave front wheels on, size large or X-large, wheels off. Gas mileage = avg 22mpg city, 25-28 hwy. Drives more like a car than a van.

We're up to 101,300 miles on odometer, so we're starting to look for something to replace it. I'm following this thread with lots of interest :)
Edna

[KnottedYet]

My sweetie mentioned wanting a Honda Fit, and after reading about the tandem in the Fit, I'm getting interested in one.

[mimitabby]

I must say that little detail caught my attention as well.
I guess I'm going to have to look at one of those...

[Aggie_Ama]

I drove a diesel Beetle for a couple of years before it got swept up by the streetsweeper.

It was quiet, not loud. It got 40 mpg, or better if I obeyed the speed limit, which I rarely did. It had heated seats. It started even when it was cold. In really cold climates, they put anti-gel agent in the diesel, so that helps, too. It did NOT like to run out of diesel!

There are lots of diesel pumps--no not on every corner, but if you know where to look you can always find one. Whenever I traveled (and I did cross country a lot), I would try to determine which predominant local company carried diesel in that state, and then make sure to look for those stations. Lots of time the diesel nozzles are on the same stand with the gas pump and if you aren't looking for them you won't notice them. And, you can always wait in line with the big rigs in a pinch (although, sometimes the nozzle dispenses really really fast and you might spill).

I could carry three bikes on a hitch mounted Yakima rack. I frequently took the back seat out, inserted a custom-made platform that leveled everything out, and loaded my gear onto that. If you just had one bike, you could put the back seat down and roll the bike in through the hatch. You could stack two bikes, probably.

I loved all 4 of my Beetles, but I think I loved the diesel best--because of the miles per gallon.

BTW: My Element got really good mileage when I was in Maine for a week last September. I think it had to do with Maine's 50 mph speed limits, though.

Karen

You make me long to trade in my Caliber on a diesel Beetle! I absolutely LOVED my leased '01 Beetle. DH and I felt we needed a somewhat family car (4 doors) when he had a single cab truck, so I didn't replace it with another Beetle. Now he wrecked his truck and has a quad cab, I don't need a four door! I really like my Caliber but there was just something about driving my little yellow Beetle.

[Blueberry]

Well...we answered that question...

We bought a pre-loved Santana Visa Tandem last night. There will be pictures once it goes to the shop for a once over. We took the element to pick it up. The passenger's side front seat slides up, and goes forward a little. So....we just barely managed to get the tandem in. No room for passengers (DH rode in the back with the bike:eek:). The only way to actually fit a tandem would be to put all of the right side seats in bed mode - but that means you'd have to be very careful about grease....

Just something to think about:)

[surgtech1956]

I wish there was something 4wd that was efficient. I had a loaner Dodge Caravan for a few days and that was great - on gas + the room.

[KnottedYet]

Surg - if you want AWD and acceptable (not great) mpg, try looking at Subaru. I get around 30 mpg with my Impreza. They go from 90-10 to 50-50, so you always have some power going to the rear wheels, that's why the mpg isn't fabulous. If you want 100-0 and 50-50 (with no gradations, and no LSD - so watch for windup on corners) take a look at the mid 1980's Subaru GL. There are still some around, but you'd have to get out of the salt to find one.

Jeep is doing a diesel, and their warrantee covers B100. Kind of expensive, though.

Last time I looked, the Element came with an AWD option. But only on the automatic, so that tossed the Element off my short list when I was car shopping.

[Starfish]

Last time I looked, the Element came with an AWD option. But only on the automatic, so that tossed the Element off my short list when I was car shopping.

Yep, I have the AWD AT. I also really bridled at buying an automatic. But, I have to say, I'm getting plenty used to it, and I have been VERY happy with how the AWD, with stock tires, performed last month up in the mountains with fresh snow, and also with compact, icy snow. Also, went camping on Friday night, and was reminded of how glad I am to have the head-clearance in the back for standing up (kind of) in the back. It makes a great "tent."

[KnottedYet]

I was very tempted by the Element, and went back to the Honda dealer a couple times. My 1987 Honda Accord hatchback was such a great car, great mileage and it could haul bikes and furniture with ease. Unfortunately, a tree fell on it and totalled it. I like Hondas.

[Blueberry]

Last time I looked, the Element came with an AWD option. But only on the automatic, so that tossed the Element off my short list when I was car shopping.

My 2005 Element is AWD and a 5 speed. I know they did make one in 2007. FWIW I refuse to drive anything that isn't a manual.

[KnottedYet]

My 2005 Element is AWD and a 5 speed. I know they did make one in 2007. FWIW I refuse to drive anything that isn't a manual.

Oh, man! If I'd've just waited a year I could've got one! (or at least test-driven it, maybe I should go test drive one anyway... hee hee!)

Edit: oh, yeah... look! http://automobiles.honda.com/element/price.aspx?Model=YH2738EW

[Skierchickie]

I've got a 2005 VW Jetta Wagon that I love. With the back seat down, I can fit one of my bikes (50cm, so not a big one) in with the front wheel on, with the handlebars turned a bit. If I need to fit 3 people and 3 bikes, I can fold down 1/2 of the back seat, pop off the front wheel, and still fit it in (carefully, so I don't get grease all over the side of the seat). And put two more on the roof rack. I think I could squeeze three on the rack, if the middle one was pointing backwards.

Worst mileage ever: 38 Best ever: 49. The 49 was in September, on a trip downstate, without bikes or the ski box, but the bike trays still on the roof rack. The 38 is pretty uncommon. Usually average 45-ish in the summer.

Love it. Love the gentle diesel purr. Can hardly hear it inside the car, and when I'm stopped in the summer, sometimes I roll the window down so I can hear it. I think it is a soothing sound. And this car has more oomph than anything I've ever owned. And I got the stability control, so with a good set of snow tires it handles in the snow quite a bit like the awd Subaru Impreza Sport I used to have, even though it is just front wheel drive. I was worried when I bought it, because of where I live.

I don't know if they have the diesel wagons here yet. Mine is the old body style (2005, but actually made/purchased in 2004). There was some delay with getting the new diesel sedans in the US, and even the gas wagons were being released after the gas sedans.

[Tuckervill]

My Element is AWD and automatic. I never want to have to shift again, after I drove my son's Civic to Florida once. (My first few cars were 5 speeds, but now that I'm a grown up...no thanks.)

I pulled my husband's F150 out of deep gravel on the bank of the Buffalo River last summer, with my Element.

Karen

[IFjane]

My Element is AWD and automatic.
I pulled my husband's F150 out of deep gravel on the bank of the Buffalo River last summer, with my Element.

Karen

Mine is an automatic and AWD.

I have never pulled an F150 out of gravel on the bank of a river, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express once! :rolleyes:

[OakLeaf]

It doesn't take much to have better traction than a Ford F-series :D You could look at our old F250 sideways and the truck would be sideways. That was before mice at the entire wiring harness :rolleyes:

[Zen]

I have never pulled an F150 out of gravel on the bank of a river, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express once! :rolleyes:

You're so tough it's scary :D

[susiej]

are there really no vehicles out there that carry bikes nicely AND get better than 25 mpg???? (that's pathetic!)

Our Toyata Matrix with a two-bike z-rack on the back gets its usual above 25 mpg city. About half of our driving is with my Trek on the back. Mileage has gotten worse with ethanol mixed into the gas, but hovers at 25 or 26. (That's a whole other rant entirely.)

My old Saturn SL was above 25 mpg even when I had the bike on the trunk rack for weeks.

We do buy the smaller engines with manual transmissions. We drive in the suburbs, so mileage is better than in a true city.

The lack of really great mileage in a car is why the Saturn's replacement might be a scooter. VW Beetles were getting 25 mpg in the 70s -- surely there should be a four-seater with some trunk space that gets 40 mpg by now!

[mimitabby]

. VW Beetles were getting 25 mpg in the 70s -- surely there should be a four-seater with some trunk space that gets 40 mpg by now!

and the fact that they are such rare birds is proof of the incompetence of the american automobile industry. All american car makers are selling cars like that IN EUROPE.

[susiej]

and the fact that they are such rare birds is proof of the incompetence of the american automobile industry. All american car makers are selling cars like that IN EUROPE.


We were down at SouthCenter the other day so we checked out the new Smart Car dealership. Though I'm dissapointed that the US versions of this car *do not* have the high efficiency Mercedez Benz engines in them, nor do they have the 60 mpg diesel option here, they still do get 30 mpg city and you can get a really sweet looking rear mounted bike rack that takes the bikes with both wheels on and is not very high off the ground (so mounting would be easy).


:eek: :confused: :eek: :confused:

But ... but ... but ... efficiency is sexy!

Our neighbors would buy cars in Germany and ship them back here. A Smart would probably fit in the hand luggage ... ;)

[Beane]

I too love my diesel jetta. I easily get 38 in around-town driving. And while I'm not a leadfoot anymore, I'm not driving slowly either. I've gotten better mileage on the highway. (and this is always with a roof rack of some sort). Plus, since it's a diesel, I expect it to live for several hundred thousand miles without any major drivetrain issues.

VW is coming out with a few more diesel vehicles this spring/summer including a new SUV:
http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/publish/volkswagen_news/article_2032.shtml

and new jetta wagon:
http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/publish/vortex_news/article_1967.shtml

and new "clean" diesel:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/car_shopping/what_s_new_for_2008/2008_volkswagen_jetta_tdi_first_drive_review

[tulip]

I too love my diesel jetta. I easily get 38 in around-town driving. And while I'm not a leadfoot anymore, I'm not driving slowly either. I've gotten better mileage on the highway. (and this is always with a roof rack of some sort). Plus, since it's a diesel, I expect it to live for several hundred thousand miles without any major drivetrain issues.

VW is coming out with a few more diesel vehicles this spring/summer including a new SUV:
http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/publish/volkswagen_news/article_2032.shtml

and new jetta wagon:
http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/publish/vortex_news/article_1967.shtml

and new "clean" diesel:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/car_shopping/what_s_new_for_2008/2008_volkswagen_jetta_tdi_first_drive_review

I tried and tried to find a 2006 or 2005 VW Golf TDI when I was car shopping. They are in such high demand, no luck. The VW dealer said that VW is coming out with an improved diesel Rabbit TDI in 2009...but why not now? They have the Jetta TDI, but it's over my budget and it's not a hatchback. Same engine...same platform...where's my Rabbit TDI??

The gas Rabbit is a lovely little scoot, but when the TDI comes back, I'll be trading it in (but don't tell her that just yet).

[OakLeaf]

Just in case anyone was wondering, a 46" TV fits in the back of a Prius, too :D

(an LCD, so it could go on its side, not plasma which would have to ride upright!)

The look on the face of the kid at Circuit City was priceless.

[tulip]

WHOA!!! VW is coming out with a hybrid-diesel Golf/Rabbit to compete with the Prius (finally, something to compete with the Prius, as I don't like how it looks or drives!)

70 mpg...with farfugnugen! As a Rabbit owner, this makes me very happy.

http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/02/vw-unveiling-an.html

[mimitabby]

WHOA!!! VW is coming out with a hybrid-diesel Golf/Rabbit to compete with the Prius (finally, something to compete with the Prius, as I don't like how it looks or drives!)

70 mpg...with farfugnugen! As a Rabbit owner, this makes me very happy.

http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/02/vw-unveiling-an.html

that is very cool!

[surgtech1956]

I think the auto makers could make a more efficient vehicle than what we have. I was talking with a friend, she has a Ford Focus(couple of years old), I asked her how was the mpg? She said it was OK, she use to have a Geo Metro and got 60 mpg.

With all the technology that we have, I can't believe they can't come up with vehicles that can get 50 mpg.

Just my .02. Gas just went from $3.42 to $3.70 a gallon.

[tulip]

The Honda Fit is a good car with lots of room and good mileage. BUT, the same car in Japan gets ALOT better mileage. I read that Honda didn't want the Fit to get better mileage than the Civic Hybrid, which is a more expensive car.

It really stinks. Just give us the car that's available in Japan (same for VW and their diesel hybrid Rabbit that they won't bring over here--only available in Europe).

[bluebug32]

Surg - if you want AWD and acceptable (not great) mpg, try looking at Subaru.

I have a '07 Subaru Outback Sport. I can easily fit a bike in the car (wheel on) and then two more on top. I seem to average 26-27mpg and a little less with bikes on the top, but I mainly do stop and go city driving. It's been a great car so far and tremendous in snow.