LBS Politics (LONG... sorry!)

[VeloVT]

I am the antichrist -- I just bought a bike online (not on ebay, from some shop in California called Cambria Bike that had a good deal on the one I had been eyeing on ebay). It's a Scott Contessa CR1 Pro and I'm excited.

But now politics...
1) I am going to need to get it all fit to me, probably will want to swap out the stem, etc... Would it be a horrible thing for me to go to the shop I bought my other bikes at (and bf bought his bike at)? I'd be willing to pay for a fit since I didn't buy the bike there -- but somehow I still feel like they would hate me. Would it be better to go to one of the other local shops? How about maintenance? Although I think the quality of the maintenance shop at "my" LBS runs pretty hot and cold, I feel like there's something to be said for the fact that they know me, they know my bikes, they know my bike's history, etc... I've been going there for about two years now. But is it evil for me to wheel in my shiny new ride I bought online and ask them to do work on it?

(A related question: I want to switch out the triple on my cx bike for a compact. I am not skilled enough to do the labor myself, but I'd much rather buy the parts online, because I'll get a much better deal. Ethics of this?).

2) Once I get the new bike, I will want to sell my Felt. I'm going to need a few things done (will switch back to original bars and stem, which will require new cables, etc; will probably do a full tune-up as due diligence). Do I have this done at "my" LBS or somewhere else?

3) And a totally different subject... I want to sell the bike locally rather than on ebay if I can... although I've bought and sold successfully on ebay, I'm kind of hesitant to sell a bike on ebay because a) there's always that annoying person who bids your auction way up and then backs out -- and it's a hassle to work all of that out and relist; and b) I'd be scared to death that someone would get the bike and despite my best efforts to describe it as accurately as possible, they'd find something wrong with it or different than they expected, and it would be a huge hassle. How do I go about figuring out an asking price? I haven't seen anything just like it on Ebay or Craigslist. It's a Felt F50, Ultegra drivetrain. 2004 model but probably less than 3000 miles (definitely less than 5000)... Does $500 sound too high, given the age? It's in really good shape...

Thanks for your help and sorry this is so rambling.

[mimitabby]

If you like that bike shop, take the bike there.

They'll get over it. They'd rather SOME business than none!
heck you can tell them the bike was a gift from your grandmother!

[rij73]

Congrats on going for the Scott... It's a sweet bike. I've heard really good things about Cambria Bike.

Go ahead and use your LBS. It really is just business. We are all so attached to biking here that we think of it personally all the time. There is nothing wrong with getting a good deal on last year's leftovers. Some might say it's the only smart way to shop!

As for selling on Ebay, we did it with DH's Roubaix. Worked out fantastic. Maybe it was just luck, but it was the first thing we ever sold on Ebay and the whole thing went off without a hitch. We got the price we wanted, and the guy loved the bike.

[OakLeaf]

By the time you pay for the extra labor they should charge you to install parts you bought someplace else, you won't think you've got such a great deal. Honestly, I do a little work for somebody in the motorcycle industry and sometimes get tires in lieu of payment (one of the few things we don't have the tools to install at home), and I expect to pay extra for my LBS to mount and balance them since I didn't buy them there.

Fitting is another thing. Not every shop has a highly skilled fit tech, so it's going to be common for people to bring bikes from elsewhere to LBS's that do. You're paying a set rate for the fitting because of that, and you are going to buy from them whatever parts you need as a result of the fit, right?

Fair's fair. If I'm going to buy something online, I'd better be able to install it myself. I understand perfectly about buying stuff online when I have a cr*ppy LBS, or when they're so far away from me that I don't really consider them "local." But if you have a good relationship with your LBS, why wouldn't you want them to be able to stay in business?

[rij73]

One scenario I can think of when you might do this is if you fall in love with a particular bike or brand of bike, and your LBS is just simply not a dealer of that brand. Doesn't mean you don't want them to stay in business if you buy the bike elsewhere but still use them for the fit and maintenance.

I, for example, just got it into my head that I wanted to ride a Blue RC4. It was a pretty superficial decision, but still, that was the bike I wanted. Nobody around here carries that brand at all...

[DirtDiva]

WRT buying parts online then getting the shop to fit them...
You are a regular customer of your LBS, not some random passer by. See if they'll do a price-match for whatever it is you're thinking of buying online or give you a good deal on installation if it is impossible for them to get close enough in price for the item(s). They make the sale and you get a good price. :)

[OakLeaf]

PS I didn't mean I thought you were the antichrist :D:cool:

It's just that if you're getting something from your LBS that you can't get online, then you ought to be willing to pay for it, because it's the reason that they have the overhead that they do.

I don't mean fitting, or selling you a particular make of bike, for the reasons I said before, but I do mean knowing their product line and helping their customers find what they need (as opposed to what they think they want); making sure bikes are properly set up before they leave the shop; etc. If they don't give you any more help than a big box store would, and I've been in LBS's like that, then to heck with them, but I wouldn't bring them my bike for service, either.

So many people complain about talking to tech support in India, or buying poisoned dog food from China, but don't see the connection when they choose where to make their own purchases.

[Aggie_Ama]

The LBS I purchased my bike at went out of business. After that I realized my bike was improperly fit and causing me pain. I took it into the shop near my work and paid $40 to have the fit redone. I then bought $50 insoles. The shop was very nice and concerned that I have a proper fitting bike. Plus if you think about it a paid fit is pretty much 100% profit. They now get my business before any other shop and I only bought my shoes online because I really wanted a color they couldn't get.

The shop should be happy to help you no matter where you bought it. The great service the shop I use provided fitting my bike won me over as a frequent customer.

[Running Mommy]

Ok, first of all, Cambria is a good shop. Just give the bike a good look over to make sure they didn't "trade out" components. I have heard some stuff about one of their shops. Don't know if it's true, but always good to be cautious...

Now as for buying a component online and then asking them to install it?? Ohh that made me bristle. It's kind of like taking your own food into a restaurant and sitting at their table and eating it. It just seems to be bad form IMO. There was a discussion amongst lbs owners in a trade mag about that recently. Some say they will, some say absolutely not. It's hard to exist as a brick and mortar with the internet folks under cutting you. BUT if they are not able to get the component you need, then I would say it's ok. Have you asked them if they can get it for you, and if so what kind of price they'll give you?
I know some shops will install for free if you purchase it from them. For our shop it just depends. I would think that most shops would be willing to work with you tho.
And NO, I do not think you are evil for buying online. When I'm pricing things for the shop I always try to look at what the online market is pricing it at. I can't always match it, but I try to stay within a stones throw.
One thing I don't think alot of people realize either is that some online stuff is previous years goods. So they think the lbs is overcharging them for say a 105 rear derailleur, but what they lbs is selling them is a current model, and the online version is 07 or older. If your lucky your lbs will have an older model on hand and is prolly discounting it.
As for the fit. Does this shop have a certified fitter on staff and charge for it? If so, then no worries. That's part of their business model. It's just another service, so I wouldn't think twice.

I had a similar experience a couple of weeks ago. A lady came in and asked me to measure her for a bike. I took all her measurements and plunked them into the system. Gave her the size, saddle height, reach, etc. and then she took those measurements to my competition. Apparently she had a credit at the other store, so she was going to use it to order a road bike. She didn't like how the other lbs had measured her, so she came to me. Sure enough, He had measured her big. Which I attribute to the fact that he can't get the bike smaller than a 48cm. She measures at a 45-46. The bike she's getting will be too big for her. I'm sure I'll see it in here when it doesn't fit. I'm not certified yet (coming after Ironman) so I don't charge anything. And I also don't put it out there that I will do a professional fit. But I do know enough to be able to swap out stems, adjust cleats, etc.
I'm just hoping that by helping her it will eventually mean she'll actually spend some $$ at my store, rather than just use me for my knowledge. All I can do is hope. At this point I'm trying to spin it as good bike karma...;)

Hope this helps. You are not evil!! No worries!

[VeloVT]

Thanks everyone.

None of the local shops carry Scott. So I guess that makes it a little better?

I think I would never have the nerve to walk in with a crankset I bought on Ebay or Nashbar or whatever and ask LBS to install it. Not to say there's no temptation, but I don't think I could actually do it. I do need to learn to do my own mechanical work though.

The shop I have a relationship with is OK. I really like one of the sales guys there and one of the mechanics. I've also gotten BS from both sales and service, though, and as mentioned, they sometimes do a pretty mediocre job fixing my bike, so... I feel loyalty to them because, as mentioned, they do know me and my bikes. It's a little like feeling guilty for going to a new hairstylist when you realize you've had a string of bad cuts though.

RM, I am sure that if your shop were in my town none of this would be an issue.

[Blueberry]

My LBS guys work with me on stuff. I bought a Surly Cross Check on Ebay. I got a good price. I brought it to them to work on. They oo'd and ahh'd over the bike, and I spent over $100 getting it "just right." I also get them to order parts for me that I could just as easily order myself for the relationship. They work on my Bike Friday - it didn't come from them.

If they aren't a dealer in that kind of bike, they'll probably be cool with it. Just explain and communicate. The bad service sucks - mine will re-fix any minor problem, but honestly the wrench who does much of my work is so good it's never an issue......

RM - there may be liability issues with installing an unknown part. Another good reason....

[velogirl]

I'd beg to differ that a paid fit is 100% profits. The employee who fit you is paid either a salary or an hourly wage. If the fit takes 2 hours and the employee makes $20/hour, then there is zero profit on a $40 bike fit.

There is also opportunity cost for the other things that employee might be doing (like selling a bike) that he can't do because he's fitting you (for no profit).



I took it into the shop near my work and paid $40 to have the fit redone. I then bought $50 insoles. The shop was very nice and concerned that I have a proper fitting bike. Plus if you think about it a paid fit is pretty much 100% profit.

[Running Mommy]

Thanks everyone.

None of the local shops carry Scott. So I guess that makes it a little better?

YES it does.

I think I would never have the nerve to walk in with a crankset I bought on Ebay or Nashbar or whatever and ask LBS to install it. Not to say there's no temptation, but I don't think I could actually do it. I do need to learn to do my own mechanical work though.

Yeah sounds good in theory, but hard to do huh?

The shop I have a relationship with is OK. I really like o
ne of the sales guys there and one of the mechanics. I've also gotten BS from both sales and service, though, and as mentioned, they sometimes do a pretty mediocre job fixing my bike, so... I feel loyalty to them because, as mentioned, they do know me and my bikes. It's a little like feeling guilty for going to a new hairstylist when you realize you've had a string of bad cuts though.


This part concerns me!! It reminds me of my prime competition, and why I decided to open our own shop. I really tried to like this shop. I did for awhile- I think I even posted some positives about it back in the day. But then I started noticing that the bike was in worse shape when I got it back from when I took it in. The guy couldn't get what I needed etc. I tried to turn a blind eye to it, but finally realized it just wasn't working out. And now all I hear from my customers are complaints about this guy. It was hard to come to that realization, because I really like the guy. but he just couldn't handle my needs.
Ironically one of his employees came in lastnight and was chatting w/ us. He told me that the guy knows it's me that opened the shop and is super bitter. I had sent a lady there to get specialized spin shoes because he's a specialized dealer. I guess when she went in there she told him I had sent her over. The guy said the look on his face was priceless. It's hard to hate someone when they send you business. lol
RM, I am sure that if your shop were in my town none of this would be an issue.

See my replies inside the quote

[tulip]

RM has the right attitude and advice. I bought one of my bikes from my LBS, and the others I did not, but my LBS works on all of them. But I buy my tires and tubes there, and my shoes. I also buy my shorts there, even though shorts are cheaper at Performance. That extra $10 is worth it to me to shop local and to get my shorts right away. I support my LBS in small ways with tubes etc as well as in larger ways (bike). I also have them work on my bike when I can't do it myself. I would never bring in parts that I bought elsewhere to install.

Because of this, they pushed a repair up because I needed it done pronto. I would not expect them to do that if I was not a regular customer. You do get what you pay for, and in the long run, I'm not spending much more (if any) than I would by shopping at Performance or other internet bike sites (I'm not an ebayer).

That said, I do go to the original Performance shop when I visit North Carolina and check out their bargain room from time to time. I have found some great deals on jerseys there.

[emily_in_nc]

So, did I commit a faux pas? This week I took my mountain bike (which I purchased on ebay last year) to a bike shop I'd never been to to install a suspension fork I'd also purchased on ebay. I don't really have an LBS as we moved fairly far away from the shop I'd bought a couple bikes from before (road bikes), and my most recent road bike is a Bike Friday, which was ordered direct from BF. My DH or I do most of our own maintenance, so we only need a bike shop on rare occasions.

A mountain biking buddy of mine recommended this shop, so I walked in with my bike and my fork and asked them to install it. I certainly didn't dicker on price and paid their usual labor charge. I didn't feel too guilty taking in a fork I'd purchased on ebay, because suspension forks are pricy, and I couldn't really afford a brand new one. This was a 2005 model, lightly used, so I got it for slightly less than half the price of a new one. (A new fork like mine would cost in the $700 range from an LBS.) I didn't tell them I purchased it from ebay, and for all they knew, I could have bought it from a friend.

Not everyone can afford to buy everything brand new, be it bikes or parts, and I believe in recycling and reusing when possible as well. So, do LBSes understand this at all? Or can I assume the folks at this shop were cursing me behind my back? :(

Emily

[kat_h]

My comments are going to be a bit more general. I work in a music store and we constantly have people coming in to have work done on guitars that they bought cheaper somewhere else. We charge them full price on labour and make decent money off it. When people bring in instruments that were bought at the shop they get a heavy discount on the labour and get priority on bench time. We do get annoyed at the customers who bring in guitars bought elsewhere and then expect free labour, as long as the stores are making money on the work and the customers are happy to pay it shouldn't usually be a problem. Shops should feel comfortable charging enough to make this worth their while too. A good service department can make decent money.

[Blueberry]

Not everyone can afford to buy everything brand new, be it bikes or parts, and I believe in recycling and reusing when possible as well. So, do LBSes understand this at all? Or can I assume the folks at this shop were cursing me behind my back? :(

Emily

Emily-

I think it depends on which shop it was....My LBS would be cool with it. I also think purchasing a couple year old pretty expensive fork is *way* different from ordering a rear cluster for $5 less from performance and then expecting them to install it. Just my 2 cents.

Slightly OT - how did you guys learn so much about maintenance??

CA

[Geonz]

a lot depends on the individuals. Bike shop folks can be opinionated :) ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_L1m1QIFTtg is a pretty amusing depiction of one of our local character who professes that he's "fired a few customers.")

Still, I see this going in one of two directions: if you don't bring this in there, you may start buying stuff for it online more... you could drift further from the shop and more to online... not good for their business.

I'm going to be arrested for metaphor abuse but:

YOu aren't married to the bike shop, but you feel you've 'cheated' on it. Welp, it doesn't have to be the end of the relationship ;) YOu just had needs that were met by somebody else for a little while... and they bore fruit... so you're asking the bike shop to help you take care of the 'baby' but ... you're payin' them to do it. It's not love, it's business. Kinda like if you got your hair done by another hairdresser - you can still go back to the original and patch things up?

[Triskeliongirl]

I am really surprised by this thread. How can any shop complain when a customer brings them business? We are not talking about someone bringing in ebay parts and expecting free installation, we are talking about a customer making use of a shop's service department. My personal experience is that I have always been warmly receieved when I have done this (and I have done this with both frames and parts). In fact, the guys complimented me on the great deal I got on my last frame on ebay, and were more than pleased to transfer the parts from another frame, and at what I thought was a reasonable cost (I didn't dicker, let them name the price). And this is a shop I have never purchased a bike from. And I didn't get the sense they were cursing behind my back, in fact, they won't info. on the framebuilder that had done such a great job with the s/s couplers and paint that I brought it to first. Sure, I know the owner is hoping to sell me my next bike, but at the same time I also feel that he appreciates whatever business I do give him and his service dept. now.

I also thinks it helps when we bring them quality bikes and parts (even interesting ones they get to inspect, bike fridays, terrys, s/s cut bikes, etc.) and see we are genuine bike enthusiasts. Its the wally world bikes that many refuse to work on, rightly so in my opinion.

[Running Mommy]

We've had a couple of people come in and ask us to install used parts. We don't mind that. We just do it and charge them appropriately. Lot's fo people swap around parts. It's no big deal.
I also don't mind wally world bikes. They are just another service item.

What would get to me is if someone came in with a brand new component in the box and said "yeah I got a steal on this at price point. Can you install it". Mostly because that person didn't even give us a chance. We would still do it, but we would charge them full pop on the install, and in the end it would probably wipe out (or put a big dent) in their "savings". Now if they had bought it from us we would have most likely installed it for free.

In the end the we are a "full service" shop, meaning we do just about everything. It's part of our business model, so we don't think twice about it.
But as a brick and mortar owner it's really hard to be constantly hearing about how cheap things can be picked up on the net. We work hard to keep our prices low, but we have overhead. And the thing with giving the lbs the business is that they will be there to install it for you. Those places on the net don't have mechanics on staff waiting for you to bring them your shiny steed.

[blueskies]

While we're thinking about supporting businesses that provide value & which earn our support, let's remember Team Estrogen, right?

:)

[Crankin]

Well, I would never expect to get a discount on installation of a part I bought elsewhere, but I won't feel bad about buying from Performance or other places on the Net. My husband isn't a certified mechanic, but close enough. He does all of our work. We bought our road bikes from a local shop that sells lots of high end stuff, along with Giants and other "cruiser" type bikes. They do a good job helping casual riders, but they mostly cater to racers and serious riders. The owner lives in our town, but this is his "branch" office. His other shop has been open for several years. The only time we had them do work on one of our bikes is when the brake on Steve's mountain bike broke last summer. We don't ride the mountain bikes that often and we bought them at another shop, before this one was open. We don't have the tools to work on hydraulic brakes. Once in awhile if we run out of something and need it "now," we will buy it at the shop, but that doesn't happen very often. Why should we pay full price on parts, when we are doing the work ourselves? When my son was racing and Steve was riding 4,000 miles a year, we spent thousands of dollars on-line for parts, etc. I shudder to think what it would have been at a local shop. The cost of the clothing is outrageous there! I buy only from Terry, because that is the only brand that consistently fits me in everything, and from TE once in awhile. Those prices aren't always cheap, but I am not going to pay 185.00 for a pair of shorts!
The owner is very nice to us, as we bought expensive bikes from him, after going in "just for a fit," on our Treks. He dissed the Treks quite a bit, but didn't hard sell us on his bikes. He also made a shim for my cleat when I went back and told him about the pain I was having (for free). So even though I wouldn't buy a part elsewhere and expect the labor for free (which is crazy), I feel like I can buy parts anywhere;I don't "owe" him because I bought my bike there.

[emily_in_nc]

I think it depends on which shop it was....My LBS would be cool with it. I also think purchasing a couple year old pretty expensive fork is *way* different from ordering a rear cluster for $5 less from performance and then expecting them to install it. Just my 2 cents.

It was the Bicycle Chain on Hwy 70 in Raleigh. An easy drive from work during lunchtime, great parking, etc. The shops in Chapel Hill, which are closer to where I live, are more difficult to park at, and going there means I have to give up valuable weekend time. I'm relieved reading some of the newer posts that they probably weren't peeved at me under the circumstances!



Slightly OT - how did you guys learn so much about maintenance??


I don't know much at all, but Barry is quite mechanical. And frugal. :D So he is able to fix a lot of stuff on our bikes that break, but we rarely have any serious problems. It's mostly installing new chains, tires, cogsets, pedals, saddles, lubing, etc. He has that huge bike mechanic book from Performance that has been very helpful with stuff over the years. He doesn't do builds from scratch or anything like that, though. When I bought a bare frame on ebay a few years ago, I took it to a bike shop and ordered the gruppo, handlebars, etc. from them, they installed all that (and made a LOT of money off me -- can you say Campy Chorus?! :cool:)

And Barry doesn't know about mountain bikes so when I need help with that, I take it to a shop. The shop I'd used when I first bought the bike and wanted some parts changed out, checked, etc., I gave up on this time, since they were too busy with custom bikes and servicing same to handle something as petty as a fork replacement. Kinda snobby... So, a mountain biking friend recommended the Bicycle Chain, and I am glad I tried them out -- I'll be back. But I will still shop at Performance for a lot of things (not things I expect the other shop to install!) because they're convenient (we can bike there) and cheaper.

Emily

[Running Mommy]

The owner is very nice to us, as we bought expensive bikes from him, after going in "just for a fit," on our Treks. He dissed the Treks quite a bit, but didn't hard sell us on his bikes. He also made a shim for my cleat when I went back and told him about the pain I was having (for free). So even though I wouldn't buy a part elsewhere and expect the labor for free (which is crazy), I feel like I can buy parts anywhere;I don't "owe" him because I bought my bike there.

Thats one thing I would never do- dis another bike! All bikes have merit IMO.
The only thing I tell people is that the reason why we don't carry Trek or Specialized is because I don't want a bike company telling me what to carry- or more important- what NOT to carry. I would rather carry some smaller brands and have more variety.
I had someone that works in another shop come in and say that the reason the owner of his shop gives for only carrying one brand is that "if you give the customer too many choices it will only confuse them, and they won't buy.".... :confused::eek::rolleyes:
Ummm..... Ok... ????

[Crankin]

That's exactly what the owner of our shop does; he carries small, often unheard of brands. No one else carries Kuotas, which we bought, and now I don't think he is, either! I saw a bunch of bikes with a name that begins with a "W," that I don't recognize when I was there last week.

[divingbiker]

I am really surprised by this thread. How can any shop complain when a customer brings them business? We are not talking about someone bringing in ebay parts and expecting free installation, we are talking about a customer making use of a shop's service department. My personal experience is that I have always been warmly receieved when I have done this (and I have done this with both frames and parts). In fact, the guys complimented me on the great deal I got on my last frame on ebay, and were more than pleased to transfer the parts from another frame, and at what I thought was a reasonable cost (I didn't dicker, let them name the price). And this is a shop I have never purchased a bike from. And I didn't get the sense they were cursing behind my back, in fact, they won't info. on the framebuilder that had done such a great job with the s/s couplers and paint that I brought it to first. Sure, I know the owner is hoping to sell me my next bike, but at the same time I also feel that he appreciates whatever business I do give him and his service dept. now.

I also thinks it helps when we bring them quality bikes and parts (even interesting ones they get to inspect, bike fridays, terrys, s/s cut bikes, etc.) and see we are genuine bike enthusiasts. Its the wally world bikes that many refuse to work on, rightly so in my opinion.

This is exactly what I was going to say. I bought my MTB from my current favorite LBS, and have had them service my Glorius and my road bike. They fixed up my Craigslist pink mixte, and now they've turned my old MTB into an Xtracycle. I got handlebars and shifters from Rivendell, and paid them to install them. They like it that I'm a bike enthusiast, and I pay them for the work they do, and they don't seem to care that I got some parts elsewhere.