Want to build a touring bike

[Ruth and Joe]

Was hoping for some input/direction. I'm working with my LBS on a good touring bike. I'm 4 11 & 1/2 so will need a smaller frame. I thought about upgrading my 10 yr old Terry Symmetry because I love it, but it's a sports bike and it looks like it would cost as much to upgrade as it would to have them build a true touring bike. They are recommending a Surly Long Haul Trucker frame, which I've gotten mixed reviews on, some concerning the quality of workmanship. If I'm going to invest my savings ($1,000-$1,300 for the whole bike) of course I want something that will last and that I can progress to loaded touring with, my long term goal. Thanks for the help ahead of time. Ruth

[Blueberry]

Welcome!

If you search the forum, you'll find lots of folks who LOVE the LHT (as Long Haul Trucker is frequently abbreviated). I haven't heard anything negative, so I can't speak to that. I do have a Surly Cross Check (purchased second hand) that I LOVE! No problems with workmanship (but it's a cross bike, not a touring bike).

Edit to add: Here's a review: http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=17451&highlight=Long+Haul+Trucker

[Triskeliongirl]

If you are happy with the fit of your terry symetry, I suggest purchasing one of the new terry isis sport models, which is configured for touring and will fit you well (they are made by waterford), or if that is too pricey a used classic/madeleine that has been upgraded (or you could upgrade) to drop bars.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Jamis makes good quality steel touring bikes at very reasonable prices. Several TE members ride them. You might want to find out if there's a bike store near you that carries Jamis bikes.

[twin]

I have the LHT and I love the bike. I bought the pre-built model and it is great for trails, road riding and I hope touring. The steerer is uncut so you can decide how you want your handlebars and then adjust fom that point. The wheels are pretty nice for off the shelf wheels they have XT hubs. When you compare the LHT to the Bianchi Volpe and Trek 520 and others for the price the LHT has pretty good parts. Add a Brooks womens Finesse and racks and panniers I think you will be set! Leave it as it is and its still fun to ride.

[Stronglight99]

Ruth, are you riding a Symmetry with 24" front wheel? If so, please PM me ASAP, I know where there's a MUCH nicer bike for you than a LHT. - B

[Stronglight99]

Depending on what you have now on your symmetry, here's what you need to do to convert it to a nice touring bike.
1) rear rack- you can get these for $10-20 used, look around. Your symmetry has eyelets in the back for them, yes? If not, use a saddlebag instead of panniers, or get a mini-rack that bolts to seatpost or rear stays.
2) front rack- you don't need this. Use a handlebar bag.
3) You MUST keep the weight down. If you're under 5' you'll need to keep the total weight of bike and luggage under 50 lbs, better under 40 lbs, or you'll never be able to pick it up if it tips. So skip the touring accessories if you don't absolutely need them.
4) stuff you do need and should already have- spare tubes front and back, little tool kit, pump or CO2
5) triple crank with a granny gear, or compact double, if you don't already have one, and only if you plan on traveling to hilly areas. I can help you figure out the right chainrings to go with your existing rear freewheel/cassette (if you need help with that, PM me)
6) brakes- sidepulls are just fine unless you're heavy, the bike is over 50 lbs, or you intend to go offroad all the time. If you intend to go offroad a lot, you need a mountain bike not a touring bike.
7) Tires- whatever you have now is probably OK. If you want a fatter tire, put it on the front only, to get the benefit while saving weight.
7) Fenders- nice to have if you live in a rainy area, get Esges, $30
8) Lights- you need a headlight and blinky, you probably already have these.
There you are. I've converted your symmetry to a touring bike for $50. You can find panniers and handlebar bag on ebay for another $50. If you need a triple, you can find a 165 mm triple crank for $20 on ebay (I just did) and have your LBS install it if you don't want to buy a crank extractor to swap it out yourself. You don't really need to change your pedals/shoes/bars/levers/shifter/saddle if you like what you have now.
I'm sure you can find a good use for the $1400 you just saved. :-)

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

6) brakes- sidepulls are just fine unless you're heavy, the bike is over 50 lbs, or you intend to go offroad all the time. If you intend to go offroad a lot, you need a mountain bike not a touring bike.

Real touring bikes are meant to go off road plenty- if by off-road you mean off of paved roads and onto dirt and rough gravel roads, fireroads, cowpaths or tractorpaths across fields, etc. Touring bikes are meant to be country distance bikes after all, with nice sturdy tires (perhaps 700x38's?) to handle their share of rough surfaces, and usually fenders for mud and rain conditions. I would not suggest a mountain bike for any kind of long distance touring, but maybe you didn't mean to 'recommend' one.

[tulip]

Cantilever brakes are nice on touring bikes. Also, I like bar-end shifters because if they break, they are easily fixed without having to disassemble the break levers.

[twin]

The reason I chose the LHT is because Surly thought about most everything you might need (or Rivendell did) and it is less expensive bike than the Rivendell Atlantis which is very much the same in design. Surlys are tigged and Rivendell uses lugs etc. The Surlys have been likened to the thinking mans(persons) bike. I have ridden many bikes and some very nice ones. I find the LHT to be very fun and comfortable. I am familar with bikes and I think with a little research you will see why the LHT is one of the better touring frames on the market today. Can we say spoke holder? lol

[Stronglight99]

A touring bike is designed for (a) heavy loads, (b) reliability and (c) comfort over long distances. That's all. No, they're not "meant" for off-road use, but you can use them for that purpose because they're sturdy and reliable. Some bikes are designed for off-road touring using 26" wheel MTB geometry.
I started touring in 1976, on and off road. Mountain bikes didn't exist, triple cranks were handmade if you had one, indexed shifting didn't exist, wheels were 27" 5-speed. In those days tourers used friction downtube shifters and centerpull brakes. Nobody used barcons because they are not easily fixed (tulip, have you ever personally tried to fix a broken index barcon five miles from home?) I don't like sidepull brakes since they're easy to misalign, but I have to observe that most century riders use them. The new touring bikes scare the heck out of me, they all look incredibly unreliable, and the dizzying variety of brakes is marketing hype.
A couple of items for practical advice for short women - I'm 5'2" 110 lbs.
1) I gave up trying to use drop bars, because braking was too dangerous. I use upright bars with very short reach stem and small-hand levers. Amazing improvement. I also pick frames with the top-tube length less than 21" for the same reason, and use a stem with a 40mm reach. Any brake will work if you have good levers you can reach easily and they're set up properly.
2) Remember that you weigh 100 lbs and your bike plus load cannot weigh as much as you do. You simply won't be able to use many of the features of a loaded touring bike, because you're never going to lift the bike with 60 pounds of gear on it. The bikes are overdesigned for a 300 lb guy with 100 pounds of gear. When you think about this carefully, it says that any sport bike like the Symmetry will work just fine, because *you'll* never be able to carry that huge load even if your bike can.
3) Any bike that you're comfortable on, however seemingly inappropriate, will work just fine- the only modern piece of technology I'd add to my 1976 bike is a cellphone. -B aka Stronglight99

[KnottedYet]

Was hoping for some input/direction. I'm working with my LBS on a good touring bike. I'm 4 11 & 1/2 so will need a smaller frame. I thought about upgrading my 10 yr old Terry Symmetry because I love it, but it's a sports bike and it looks like it would cost as much to upgrade as it would to have them build a true touring bike. They are recommending a Surly Long Haul Trucker frame, which I've gotten mixed reviews on, some concerning the quality of workmanship. If I'm going to invest my savings ($1,000-$1,300 for the whole bike) of course I want something that will last and that I can progress to loaded touring with, my long term goal. Thanks for the help ahead of time. Ruth

Our own little Trek420 (she's about an inch taller than you) was blissfully toodling around on a 42cm Surly LHT this summer. Nice long wheelbase, and she didn't have any overlap issues.

I've got a Surly CC. Feel the bike love!

[tulip]

Friction shifters are more easily fixed than integrated shifters. Downtube shifters are an easily-repairable option, too, but I don't like to drop my hand down to shift. I did it all the time (I didn't get a bike with integrated shifters until 2004), but for me, I like to keep both hands on the bars.

Sidepulls get out of whack. I like cantilevers, some folks like centerpulls.

The main things to remember is to get a bike that fits properly and to keep it simple. Steel is more comfortable than aluminum, in my opinion. I like the LHT and the classic Trek 520. They have what's needed, and not much that's not needed. I've heard good things about the Jamis Aurora, but I haven't checked it out in person.

[Ruth and Joe]

Thank you to everyone, it was all helpful. I'm taking my time to bring it all together and I always have my Terry! Ride on.

[KnottedYet]

Side note about friction/index barcons: I messed up my rear shifter and things got stinky with the indexing. Flipped the selector to "friction" and was able to ride happily for another month until I could get into my LBS.

Luuuuuuv my bar-end shifters. :D

[Triskeliongirl]

I really second the rec to try touring on your symetry. In fact, my touring bike is an older steel isis (same geometry as your symetry) that I had s/s couplers installed on, and added cantilever brakes to use 32mm tires. However, the symetry as spec'd will accept 28mm wide tires, which is plenty for many touring applications, and a rear rack. So, why don't you try that, see if it limits you, and if so then consider another bike. The geometry on the older symetry/isis is not that different from the older classic/madeleine (tourers). The biggest diff. is the tourers accept wider tires and fenders and a front rack, and came stock with larger rear cogsets but you can easily put a mountain cogset and der. on your symetry if you need it (I did do this on my isis).

[twin]

I also love my barends I have them on two of my bikes.I like the simplisty and the way they look on the handlebars. Yeah barends!!!!!!