calming frightened dog

[TsPoet]

OK, I'm desperate maybe someone here can help.
I got a rescue dog ~7 months ago. She is very timid and afraid of a lot of things. Most notably wind ?!
The windy season is starting here. It was ~15 mph last night and I got no sleep, this poor baby paced and whined and pawed at me all night. Tonight the prediction is 45 mph winds.
Nothing I do seems to calm her. This has happened every time it has been windy for the last 7 months. I totally don't get it, I don't know if it’s the wind or the noises it cause or just what, but it's awful to see her so upset and there is nothing I can do. (I also am desperately in need of sleep!)
Is anyone familiar with Rescue Remedy? I’d rather an non drug (I’m a toxicologist, don’t tell me it’s flowers and not a drug, that’s still a drug) alternative. But, I’ll try anything!

[Zen]

I would say call the vet but they'll just advise drugs.

Music?
listen to some samples of Steve Roach (http://www.amazon.com/Magnificent-Void-Steve-Roach/dp/B000000X78/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1202315597&sr=1-7)
he always helps me sleep.

I wonder if it could be related to a barometric pressure change? Animals are very sensitive to stuff like that.

[makbike]

check with your vet. I know there is a collar on the market which releases natural pheromones which act to reduce stress. The vet I worked for often recommended to to clinics with dogs like yours. Clients reported back that the collar did work. The collar itself is activated by an increase in body temperature. I can't remember the name of the collar, sorry. I will, however, try to remember to ask tomorrow when I swing by the clinic to pick up some stuff.

[Brandi]

I have used Rescue Remedy on my cats before. It is super mild though. It sounds like you need a mild tranq for her. I had a dog that used to freak out over fireworks really bad. He chewwed through a picnic table one time. We had to knock him out after that. Your doc will be able to advise. You could try the Rescue Remedy and see though. I know from personal use that it is super mild. But it might work for her and is not as druggy as a tranq can be.

[Tuckervill]

The lady on Calling All Pets says to make windy/thunder time play time, and you have to anticipate it before she starts spiraling down. She calls them "Thunder Treats" with her dogs. Find something the dog loves that you only offer during bad weather. You will have to stay awake of course, still, while you distract the dog.

Some dogs will be harder to distract than others. You'll have to be quick on the trigger, I'll bet--watch the weather and try to change her thinking about it before the bad weather starts.

Karen

[Tuckervill]

By the way, I've been trying to recondition Zeke to not attack the mail carrier every day, but he always beats me to the punch. I've tried lots of things, like leaving treats for the mail carrier to give him, distracting him ahead of time, etc. But the dog across the street starts barking whenever she hears the mail truck park up the street, so he's always cued in. I've pretty much given up and keep the doggie door closed from 9-12 a.m. About 30 minutes ago he was going ballistic on the couch, snarling like he was killing something, just cuz he saw her out the window.

I don't think I'll ever change his mind about the mail carrier, unless I can convince HER not to walk straight down the sidewalk from my mailbox to the next house (IOW, to go back to the street the way she came), because he thinks he's chasing her off. It's too ingrained in his brain, after 4 years of success!

So, I'm sympathetic to your plight.

Karen

[Andrea]

I know it's a drug and not a permanent fix for someone that lives in a windy area, but Benadryl can help an acute bout of the jitters. They can have up to 1mg/pound of bodyweight.

Good luck finding something- I have one that gets nervous during storms, so I'd be interested to know if you find something that doesn't involve drugs.

[LBTC]

I love the idea of play time during anxious moments! My Diva gets nervous at various times and will follow me around and shiver constantly when it's thundering and windy. I've never thought of playing with her! Great idea! Difficult during sleep hours, but maybe, if it's a particular toy, she may become conditioned to play with it on her own when she's feeling upset?

My suggestion was going to be Rescue Remedy. Maybe both in conjunction?

Sending butterflies to you both,
~T~

[OakLeaf]

There's a pheromone spray that seemed to work pretty well with our dogs. (Also on us... helped mellow us out enough to deal better with the dogs' residual jitters LOL!) It's called D.A.P. Some vets have it or it's available online too. We also would try to play or treat them as much as possible to distract and desensitize them. Stephen Halpern CDs helped too.

[TsPoet]

Thanks to all!
I called my local homeopathy/designer vet and store and they have the DAP collar and rescue remedy and other things she said she'll talk to me about when I get there.
I will also go out and play with her tonight, the wind usually comes up in late afternoon, so we can play just before dark. The snows have almost melted, too, so good timing to try that.

[sundial]

Here's what I use for my fosters:

Comfort Zone plug in diffuser or spray
harp music
a dark, quiet room without windows aka the bathroom
a crate covered with a towel
Kong filled with peanut butter and/or treats
Bully stik or other chew
Valium--some dogs just need the real chill pill

My rescue girl Niki is terrified of wind and rain because she had to live outside during a hurricane. I have to give her a chill pill and move her into our bathroom with a toy to keep her preoccupied. She really likes a cozy, dark corner to feel secure. I hope this helps and feel free to pm me if you have any more questions.

[KSH]

This is going to sound cheesy... but does anyone where watch the Dog Whisperer.

At of the behavior problems you are all talking about... are addressed in his show.

If your dog is scared of the wind, that shows he's an insecure dog. You cannot feed into that insecurity. Meaning: When he's being scare of the wind, you have to ignore him. Do not pick him up, pet him, talk to him, nothing. When you reinforce his insecurity, he keeps doing it. Yes, you will have some sleepness nights so he gets trained... but you are not sleeping as it is.

As for the aggressive dogs... you have to catch them the minute they start to get aggressive and make a "shush" noise. Ceasar will typically also poke some fingers into their neck (like another dog would) or give them a slight foot nudge on the hind quarters. You aren't being volient... just redirecting their focus.

Anyone with a dog should watch the show... it's really amazing how he rehabilitates dogs. Really teaches you how to be the pack leader of your dog(s).

[brok]

This is going to sound cheesy... but does anyone where watch the Dog Whisperer.

At of the behavior problems you are all talking about... are addressed in his show.

If your dog is scared of the wind, that shows he's an insecure dog. You cannot feed into that insecurity. Meaning: When he's being scare of the wind, you have to ignore him. Do not pick him up, pet him, talk to him, nothing. When you reinforce his insecurity, he keeps doing it. Yes, you will have some sleepness nights so he gets trained... but you are not sleeping as it is.

As for the aggressive dogs... you have to catch them the minute they start to get aggressive and make a "shush" noise. Ceasar will typically also poke some fingers into their neck (like another dog would) or give them a slight foot nudge on the hind quarters. You aren't being volient... just redirecting their focus.

Anyone with a dog should watch the show... it's really amazing how he rehabilitates dogs. Really teaches you how to be the pack leader of your dog(s).


I'm a huge Dog Whisperer fan:D And, I have tried his techniques with my dogs. Timing is very critical, so that they understand what behavior you want the to stop. Anyway, I would also recommed readomg his books. And definitely ignore the dog rather than try to pamper him by playing into his insecurity. Good Luck

[Pedal Wench]

My Mastiff was terrified during thunderstorms. The only cure was to stroke her belly and sing "The Circle Game." That's what I sang while the doctors took her away too. :( It always seemed to calm her when she, or I, was scared.

[bmccasland]

Seems to me, that taking dog for regular walks, even on windy days, and not playing into the insecurity (Dog Whisperer stuff) is a start. There's probably a chapter or two in one of his books.

But also having a secure quiet place is also a good thing.

Dogs do feed off your energy, so make sure you're calm and collected too. My Nala never experienced fireworks or thunderstorms until we moved here - and doesn't like either. Will try to scratch her way through the back door to get in, but once inside, she's fine. A loud *crack* will jerk her head up, and she may go look out the window, but she's calm. If she does start getting anxious, I tell her in a strong voice to "go lie down." A little bit later, I'll call her to me for love and attention, but it's on my terms, not her's.

[GLC1968]

We also are fans of Cesar Milan. He definitely advocates that you don't want to increase anxiety by being anxious yourself, trying to be 'soothing' etc...it just reinforces the bad reaction. BUT, just ignoring the dog won't help either if its a pre-existing fear often common to rescue dogs.

I do think you want to teach the dog to ignore the thing that is causing the fear. Playing during a windy time (inside where it's most noisy, in particular) is a good idea. It's helping the dog learn to associate something good with those sounds. We have a rescue that is terrified of many inanimate objects. Luckily, weather doesn't seem to affect her. She's afraid of the vacuum (even when it's not in use), the floor pump (again, even when not in use), a few plastic things in the kitchen (a chopper, a certain cutting board, etc.) We can't find rhyme or reason to her fears, but we are working on them all the time. For the vacuum, we've taken to leaving it in the room with us while we are doing something else with her like playing a game, training, feeding, etc. She's getting better with having it around now. She used to be terrified of our bikes, until we started using them to take her for fast runs around the block. She LOVED that, and now doesn't fear the bikes anymore.

Basically, try to replace bad associations with good ones. And when you do it, do it with calm assertiveness. It works, but you do have to be very consistent and on top of it.

Good luck!

[mimitabby]

my friend who is a dog trainer said:

One thing that might have happened is that the dog is being reinforced for
the wind behavior for the last 7 months. I can't tell from her description
what she has been doing when the behavior is happening. I'd like more
specific information.

She might try rescue remedy. The problem with using it is you have to
give it about 45 minutes BEFORE the event happens or it has no effect. Also
in my experience some dogs and people are not affected by it. I use it on
myself before obedience dog show performances (one reason of many why I
know longer do obedience, no fun) and sometimes it helped but it was less
effective the more I used it on myself. Another thing she might try is a
body wrap for the dog. She can google canine body wraps and find out more
info. I've known people how have used the wrap for thunder phobia dogs with
some success. Another thing to look at is using melatonin. It's been quite
effective with thunder phobic dogs especially in combination with the wrap.
What breed or combination of breeds is the dog? This could also play into
the wind problem. For instance Border Collies are sound insensitive many
times, it's inherited running in some blood lines and not others. If this
dog is upset by 15mph winds, which is not much, there's something going on.
Has she tried crating the dog before the winds kick up? Having the dog in a
secure room as far inside the house as possible to lessen the sound of it
blowing. Also white noise like the TV on.I need to know what she's tried.

Mari

[TsPoet]

my friend who is a dog trainer said:

One thing that might have happened is that the dog is being reinforced for
the wind behavior for the last 7 months. I can't tell from her description
what she has been doing when the behavior is happening. I'd like more
specific information.Mari

Wow, thanks for asking on my behalf.
Finn is a basenji-corgi cross. She's ~2 and was housed outside under a tree in a small (2x3 ft) wire mesh kennel for several months before I adopted her. She had the audacity to get pregnant and her former owner didn't want her running loose so it wouldn't happen again (I've figured out other ways to make sure she doesn't get pregnant again, but we won't go there :mad:).
The only dog experience I have is with my extremely fear aggressive mutt (in my avatar), Being inexperienced when I adopted him I didn't realize how bad he was - even though several people (including a trainer I hired to help me and my vet) told me he needed to be put to sleep. I’ve come a long way with him and he no longer “needs” to be put to sleep, but he still can’t be trusted around anything or anyone that might make him nervous (which is pretty much anything or anyone). But I digress. But, I know not to tell her fear is 'OK'.
When she gets scared she either runs around in circles or she tries desperately to get as close to me as she can, but will only sit a minute or two before having to run around and cry. Then she returns and tries to crawl into me, then runs around and cries... all night long. I've been mostly 'ignoring' this behavior except for trying to get her to lie down and sleep when she lies down.
I don’t know the cause of her fear. We very rarely get thunder here. She is, however, very afraid of noises in general. When a crowd applauded, and Finn jumped from my feet to the top of my head (I was seated) and tried to recreate a scene from Alien. If someone drops something near her she jumps and runs. If I raise my voice to her she falls over on her back… Cars, bicycles, joggers, etc don’t bother her in the least as long as they don’t make noise. The wind fear could be things moving around. Tonight will be the real test if we have the predicted 45 mph winds.
Murphy, my other dog, made a cubby hole for himself in my closet, and she’s taken it over. I will setup a covered crate in my bedroom tonight and see how she does. She seems to prefer to be crated in a car.

[KnottedYet]

My resuce dog had some pretty hefty insecurities and some hefty destructive behaviours, and I was starting to despair.

One of my patients who raises assitance dogs suggested increasing the amount of protien in his diet, that it was a trick he often used for the assitance dogs (who must be even-keeled!).

I switched my dog's food to one with about 2x the protien and started adding yogurt and hardboiled eggs to his Kong, and occaisional turkey burgers. (oh, boy, did he like the turkey burgers!)

Within about a month or 6 weeks he was off his tranquilizers, which I'd put him on out of sheer desperation, and had no more destructive behaviours.

It was a miracle!

[Pedal Wench]

I had a Mastiff who was terrified of bad weather. Singing Joni Mitchell's "The Circle Game" and stroking her belly seemed to work.

[TsPoet]

Wow, I saw this thread and thought "I've got lots of experience there" - then realized it was my old thread!
First, I found out more about her, and not much I was told back then was true -
Finn is a Shiba Inu x Beagle cross
She was Feral the first year of her life, I was her first owner - the farmer who owned the beagles was aware that the family living in the trailer home next door with their shiba moved out and left 3 puppies to fend for themselves. Finn was the only one that survived (how she did that is a complete mystery!) When he noticed she was pregnant, he's guessing about a year later, he caught her in a badger trap and turned her over to a rescue organization - who put her in the small crate and the rest was correct.
She's still the softest dog I've ever known, scared of anything that makes noise. But, we have made long strides.
http://dragons-fly-peacefully.blogspot.com/2009/11/finn-running-agility.html
I don't think she'll ever be a brave dog! But, she doesn't bite and she now loves me - took months for her to decide I was OK. So, it's all alright as it is.

[KnottedYet]

Wow, how did that pop up as "new post" when I got on TE? Sorry I posted on it without looking at the date...

[mtbdarby]

For what it's worth on dogs with aggression issues, here's what the behaviorist had me do with a rescue and it worked within minutes:

OWN THE OBJECT! For Rusty it was the doorbell and vacuum (to start with). So I sent the kid out to ring the doorbell and had Rusty on a leash with a choke collar on. When the doorbell rang I instantly stood between him and the door and said sternly "no". If he moved forward he got a collar correct and repositioned. Any other sound or movement away and he got another no or snapping fingers to make him concentrate on me. When he moved away he got a "atta boy". When they start yawning they are ok with it. If their tongue is coming out like they're chewing on something they're nervous.

We did the same with the vacuum. I had to get in front of it and own it - I'm the alpha and the rescue needs to learn that. It provides them with security. It worked wonders! If I didn't catch it this 30 pound dog turned into Kujo and I got bit twice, so nip it in the bud! And please don't give the mail carrier treats. If the dog starts to growl, bark or attack and they're given a treat it will reenforce the behavior.

Hope that helps someone - I paid good money for that lesson!:)

[hammertime]

hey poet... kudo's to you for rescuing that sweet dog... what a lucky girl she is:D she may never be a super brave dog, but i'm sure she is lots more warm and fuzzy inside than she ever was... because of you:)

[NbyNW]

I know this is an old thread, but kudos to the progress you've made with Finn and what wonderful agility pictures!

[Ered_Lithui]

Wow, how did that pop up as "new post" when I got on TE? Sorry I posted on it without looking at the date...

Somebody made a possibly-trollish first-time post about a dog drug shortly before yours today. It has apparently since been deleted, but was still there when you posted.

[Deborajen]

I missed the dog-drug post. Wouldn't read it if it got reposted.

But - I was glad to see this thread. I've been browsing dog training sites, then looking here for cycling & running discussion, etc.-- Congrats, TsPoet on the progress with your dog! Sounds like you've done really well with her, and she sounds like a very special dog. Our Abby has been with us for a week and a half now. She's about 2 years old and has a lot of issues since she had been seized from a puppy mill (she was a mom - aka "manufacturer"). She's not used to leashes or toys or being inside or being around people and getting attention, but she's gentle and sweet and she tries really hard to please us so I know she'll be a great pet and family member. It will take time, though, and it's encouraging to hear how other dogs, like yours, have thrived in spite of some bad beginnings.

Deb