Networking and Job Searching

[han-grrl]

I just wanted to post my experience on my job search this past fall. I'll keep it short (maybe)...

first i set my goal. I wanted to get a job by December 2007. Then I went to work. I contacted a friend of a friend who offered to give me some advice a few months back. I decided to take him up on his offer. He gave me some tips and some people to talk to. In the mean time, I applied to jobs. Some posted on boards, some I just emailed the appropriate person. I networked with some of the people that my new friend had given me. more advice. Learning what people are doing. While networking I was able to practice my interview skills, as well as really figure out what job I wanted (or what i wanted out of a career). Keep applying to jobs.

Then a few calls came in. A couple of interviews. Many "thanks but no thanks" via email. Not surprisingly. But one interesting one. Because that person sent the no thanks email. Then called me. He said he had spoken with his colleagues and they would like to meet me. Ummm. Ok. Then a second interview then...a job offer! Holy cow! So from a no thanks email to a full job offer. Which came...first week of December.

So my bits of advice

1) set your goal - time as well as type of job. Keep in mind jobs that might be "stepping stones" for your ideal job.
2) Network. ask your friends who they know. Talk to people. Don't think about "asking for a job", they know you are looking, but i found people were a lot more open to talking to me when i said i wanted to know what THEY did because I wanted to figure out what my career options were. If there is an opening, they will let you know, or at the very least, they will see what they can find out for you. I even emailed someone I didn't even know and they agreed to a phone meeting so that i can talk to them about their work.
3) If there is a company you want to work for, find out who to talk to and send an email directly to them. Hey, my job that i start in a couple of weeks, wasn't posted, and i was even told them didn't have any openings. So you never know!

Ok, i promised to keep it short, so i'll leave it there for now.

believe in your vision :)

Hannah

[Eden]

The job I just started (and really love) was a total networking fluke...
I happened to be at the velodrome one night and one of my teammates was volunteering there. It was pretty late by the time everything was taken down so my husband and I offered her a ride home (otherwise she would have had to bus/bike and it was around 10:30pm already) On the way I, jokingly mentioned that I was thinking about getting back into the job market soon. Now I have an unusual job - I'm a medical photographer, so its not like jobs are particularly abundant. But hey, she worked at a hospital, never mind that it was as a commuter coordinator. Amazingly she said she might know of something :eek:. She emailed me a contact and I sent off some emails.

Low and behold here I am a few months later, working at a great job. And yup the position was never posted. It was definitely a case of being in the right place at the right time.

[han-grrl]

Isn't it amazing how once you open up your intentions (like looking for a job) how the universe can give back? One must be open, patient and positive. :)

[tulip]

han-grrl,

Thanks so much for sharing your experience! It couldn't come at a better time for me. I work for myself, but I really, really need to network to get more projects coming in. I'm not a natural networker; I'd rather just stay home and work and not have to go get work! But your advice of setting a goal and working towards it in small steps is, of course, pretty basic stuff but really great! I really need the reminder now. I'm off to set my goal and make my plan. I'll keep you posted!

Thanks again, and congratulations on the job.

Eden--what a neat thing you do, medical photography! I bet you see some interesting things...

[shadon]

I've been out of work since May, temping when I can get it. Living cheap and pet sitting are keeping me afloat.

So....anyone looking for office help? Answer your phones, put together your mailings? :)

Your idea of setting a goal date is a good one!

[LBTC]

What a nice, uplifting story to share! I'm so glad for you, and so glad that you shared it with us! Thank you!

I'm considering doing the same thing now. I have a potential offer in the works, but the company continues to work on a re-org and my position would be new when the re-org happens. And I don't know if he'll offer enough money to leave my well paid well benefited current job. I should know something by the end of this month, but I'm starting to think I should do more networking just in case.

And, of course, this type of networking would be great for my photo business. I, too, am not a natural at it, and would rather depend on DH to do that part for me. The days, weeks, months go by, and it's becoming apparent that I'm going to have to do some of this networking myself. Darn.

Your post was so positive, though, that I've got a renewed sense of purpose. Thank you so much!

Hugs and butterflies,
~T~

[alpinerabbit]

I applied to the same company twice in 6 months. This is a gig of 20 people or so, and the boss does the interviewing.

I always thought if they reject you once they will remember you.

They don't. First time I got a no thank you e-mail, this time I was invited.
And I got the job. I think they were in a hurry to sign someone and advertised middle of summer. So, fewer applicants.
I got a break into a job where they always, always ask for experience, however, you are not born with it. So don't believe everything they write in an ad, it is just a wishlist. If all you are lacking is experience and they ask for less than 3 years of it, go for it.
But I had to be patient and at times I didn't believe it would ever work out.

oh and I don't do paper anymore if there's an e-mail addy. And call them, and don't be shy about calling back.

p.s. 3 weeks after I handed in my resignation, the old company (multinational, pharma) announced they would shut down our entire group. So I got really lucky. I had no drop dead date to get a job by, so I could choose where to send my cv. In total it took about 9 months. If I had gotten the pink slip from "old gig" I could not have waited for the real thing to come along.

Oh. pps. if you do not get an offer although you are getting interviews, there may be something wrong with your interviewing skills. It's a game and you have to know the rules, that's my take on it.

[han-grrl]

I didn't know anything about networking either. Last year I was a member of BNI...the whole concept is networking. When i decided to look for a job, one of the guys in my BNI group told me to work my network. He gave me three names of people to call. Which i did. I went from there, called an old boss from over 15 years ago, asked friends...its amazing who people know. I recommend reading about networking if you really feel uncomfortable. There are a ton of resources on the BNI pages. I really enjoyed my BNI experience and for the small business owners out there, i recommend going to check them out. I go a good amount of work from joining the group, and i learned so much about "selling" by business.

[tulip]

What does BNI stand for?

[han-grrl]

Business Networking International

here is some of their podcasts. Although they are focused on tips for their meetings, there are still some really good tips...
http://www.bnipodcast.com/

[boy in a kilt]

I'm in this situation myself. Got fired a couple of weeks ago. TigerSister and I decided this would be a capital opportunity to move back to the Portland area.

A couple of things I've learned:
1) It doesn't hurt to give yourself a few days to accept what has just happened to you after you lose a job. I finally realized that all the stuff (evil, self-deprecating and otherwise) is a pretty normal response.

2) I've worked out two potential career paths and have a couple of resumes for each emphasizing different aspects of my skill set and I have cover letters discussing both. This reduces the amount of customizing that I have to do before I send the thing out.

3) SGTiger and I have enough savings to keep us going for a while. This reduces the urgency a bit. In turn, this means I have the option of holding out for something that is more consistent with what I want rather than taking the first offer that is put in front of me.

4) My network in Seattle is ok, but my network in Portland is pretty weak. Fortunately, I'm working with a recruiter. I've also talked to previous supervisors and they are letting me use contacts from their networks. This is why I always save business cards and I always make sure my folder of business cards leave with me when I walk out the door.

5) Monster is pretty good. I've gotten jobs and job offers off it. However, it is really easy to get obsessive. I try to limit my time on the various boards to around 4 or 5 hours a day.

6) Ride your bike. Work out. You have plenty of time now which means you have no excuses. This keeps you from being obsessive.

Wish me luck. My standing record for finding a new job is 17 days. It doesn't look like I'll make that this time.

[Fredwina]

Just to share my experiences.
They gig I held the longest, I went for interview and they rejected me. Three months late, I went back as contractor, and a year later they hired me.
I've worked for the same company twice.
As far getting the can - Yeah taking some time to get over it can be good.
Networking - even if you have a job and like it NEVER stop networking! You never when you're times up, and you might just find something better

[han-grrl]

One thing i agree with is set a time each day for job searching and then STOP. You can get lost on the internet, the day goes by, and your stress levels increase...you get the idea. I made a point that I would spent no more than 2 hours each day on my job search online. I also set a goal of applying to ONE good job each day. AND i also set a rule that once i found my jobs to apply to, that's it, computer off. Go ride.

As far as networking goes, another tidbit is, don't be afraid to ask someone for information. I know I'm guilty of "i don't want to bother someone" but there's never any harm in asking someone for a meeting, (it helps if you offer them a treat to a latte!) emphasizing that you would be happy to work around their schedule and keep things short. I met some wonderful people along this journey.

[shootingstar]

6) Ride your bike. Work out. You have plenty of time now which means you have no excuses. This keeps you from being obsessive.

Wish me luck. My standing record for finding a new job is 17 days. It doesn't look like I'll make that this time.

Best of luck. I suspect when I finish my current job in 2009, if I haven't found another more permanent one than current one, I will be on the pavement again searching. (Geez, sounds like combing pavement for pennies...)

I got my current job ..within 2 months which I consider incredible for myself. But the construction industry is hot in British Columbia and Alberta.

Longest time unemployed=7 months. I did want a job that made use of my formal training and previous job experience. Yes, I did some networking, though tough since I knew no one in Vancouver. Made sure I volunteered for one of the local professional associations. Employers do want to see you are doing something to remain current/relevant/you're learning something useful during unemployment.

Yes, I biked every day. Climbing real hills every day was psychologically helpful...I also lost weight without trying.. :rolleyes: I would only spend 1/2 day per day job searching since I didn't want to slide into deep depression.

For my lst job out of university, I got it when I offered myself as a volunteer. The manager offered me a paid part-time job instead.

She has remained my mentor and good friend for the last 25 yrs. And yes, she help me in my career by demonstrating the importance of networking and how to carry myself professionally. She is also one of the few valued colleagues that I trust to confide difficulties that I have occasionally experienced in certain jobs. There are 2 other colleague friends also who act in this capacity for me..very important because in professional networks....there's alot of talk ...and important to maintain one's professional credibility/viability amongst your work-related peers.

[surgtech1956]

This is more about networking, I'd like to get some feedback/advice/recommendations if I could. There's a position at work that hopefully is going to be posted(a manager), but that would be a bachelor's level - a business degree. The position isn't posted yet - the guy that left it was sort of requested to leave(about 2 months ago). I'm doing alot of the duties of the manager's job, actually I'm the only one in the department that can perform the duties. So I'm already doing most of the job. But, I have an associate's degree - but 13 1/2 years in the department. Any advice on how to sell myself. The position isn't posted yet, I inquired about if it was going to be posted about a month ago and the director said to apply for it even though I don't have the degree. I'm doing a good job in the position I'm in. I need to get off worker's comp so I need a better position. What about making a suggestion to combine my position and the manager position. But I don't want things to backfire - so I have to do both without a pay increase. Any thoughts, recommendations, advice? Sorry this is so long.

[shootingstar]

The position isn't posted yet - the guy that left it was sort of requested to leave(about 2 months ago). I'm doing alot of the duties of the manager's job, actually I'm the only one in the department that can perform the duties. So I'm already doing most of the job. But, I have an associate's degree - but 13 1/2 years in the department. Any advice on how to sell myself. The position isn't posted yet, I inquired about if it was going to be posted about a month ago and the director said to apply for it even though I don't have the degree. I'm doing a good job in the position I'm in. I need to get off worker's comp so I need a better position. What about making a suggestion to combine my position and the manager position. But I don't want things to backfire - so I have to do both without a pay increase. Any thoughts, recommendations, advice? Sorry this is so long.

Your facts don't quite jive if you say you are on worker's compensation...not working now? But still can do some of the work of the manager's role. Sorry for being inquistive if you don't want to respond.

I would not suggest combining your present job and manager's ...they may lower the job classification and pay scale.

Are you taking any courses to advance your skills related to a manager's role? ..it would be good..to demonstrate your seriousness of working in a manager's role. Would this role mean actually also managing other people who would report to you? Or is the job title reflective of program/functional coordination of the dept.

Would you have the responsibility in the role to set departmental goals and targets annually?

Being a worker and manager can be 2 different things....and others will figure it out if the department performs well or backslides.

I have held several management roles. When I switched to management, there IS a difference, especially when one has responsibility for a large budget, supervising other people and doing performance appraisals

[surgtech1956]

I am still considered worker's comp - partial comp - because I'm not making the salary that I was when I get hurt in this current position. I get paid by my employer plus a comp check(they are suppose to make up the difference - but its only 65%).

The new position is just 'manager' in name only, I heard rumor that the title might be changed because the guy that left the position wasn't supervising anyone and really didn't have any responsibilities relating to budget(this is a hospital). I'm a coordinator now for the office - 6 people.

No I haven't taken any classes - I thought I would do that if I was in the position - this way I would know what classes would be of most benefit - the job is inventory control/purchasing. I really miss doing my 'real' job, I see my doctor next month and was also hoping to go back to my 'real' job of a surgical technologist. (her recommendation was to have a sit-down job to preserve the life of my knee and keep me working as long as possible - I'm 51.

Thanks for responding. I worked as a surgical tech for 12 1/2 years - so I haven't had to do any type of networking, job searching, etc...

[tulip]

Surgtech, if at all possible, I would suggest taking a class in some sort of management. It would be great if that course could count towards a bachelors degree down the road, but that may not be necessary. Something to show that you are striving to continually improve your skills. Perhaps a certificate in management or something. There are online courses as well as community colleges that offer such classes at reasonable rates. Your employer may even have a tuition reimbursement program. This might not help with the current position you are seeking, but will put you in a better position for the future.

It's better to be proactive than reacting when something comes up. Be ready for it when it does.

That being said, I don't know your particular situation at work. But I've found that even with lots of experience, if the position calls for a certain level of education, it's difficult to get that position without that education (even if you do the job already!)

Even though I have two masters degrees, I still go for training and certification in specialized areas. I recently took a 3-day course that led to me being a Qualified Assisted Housing Manager. I develop affordable housing, and this certification not only taught me some things, but illustrates to my clients that I understand the management side as well as the development side (although I don't directly do the management side).

Now I'm going for a specialized environmental/sustainable design certification to put myself in a better position for future projects. It'll also help my networking.

[surgtech1956]

Thanks for the feedback tulip. I think you're right - I'm going to look into some classes. Thanks again.

[tulip]

Nancy,
I re-read your post, and if your supervisor said you should apply, then I think you definitely should. Stick with the class idea, too. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

[froglegs]

I just jumped back in the market. I had an interview today, actually. I think it went pretty well. I have a pretty good job now, but among other significant reasons for wanting to leave, I am really sick of my ridiculously long commute and want to bike to work. The place I interviewed at today is 5 miles from my house (plus it seems really awesome). :)

However, now that I am officially looking (this interview came about somewhat unexpectedly) I think I need to tell my boss that I am planning on leaving sometime in the not-too-distant future. I want this to be as easy on my coworkers as possible. :(

[shootingstar]

I just jumped back in the market. I had an interview today, actually. I think it went pretty well. I have a pretty good job now, but among other significant reasons for wanting to leave, I am really sick of my ridiculously long commute and want to bike to work. The place I interviewed at today is 5 miles from my house (plus it seems really awesome). :)

However, now that I am officially looking (this interview came about somewhat unexpectedly) I think I need to tell my boss that I am planning on leaving sometime in the not-too-distant future. I want this to be as easy on my coworkers as possible. :(

Froglegs, you don't need to be that up front. It might backfire... instead don't you need the present employer as work reference? Well, then ask. Boss will get the hint. That's all that's needed.

I did that to my boss recently..no big surprise..I mean come on, this is a construction engineering project that he and I are in... (I believe, frogl, you are an engineer...). Still, he really didn't want to hear reality when several depts. are thinly staffed right now with people hopping over to other construction projects since the industry is hot in our province right now.

[froglegs]

Froglegs, you don't need to be that up front. It might backfire... instead don't you need the present employer as work reference? Well, then ask. Boss will get the hint. That's all that's needed.

I did that to my boss recently..no big surprise..I mean come on, this is a construction engineering project that he and I are in... (I believe, frogl, you are an engineer...). Still, he really didn't want to hear reality when several depts. are thinly staffed right now with people hopping over to other construction projects since the industry is hot in our province right now.

I work on a very specialized high tech product that takes months to learn, and right now we are very thinly staffed, so I would like to give them as much time as possible to find and train a replacement. Now that I have made the decision to leave, I can't really think of any reason not to tell them.

[Tuckervill]

Except they might shuffle you out the door before you're ready.

My husband had an employee come to him and say he was interviewing at a competitor, and he wanted the weekend to "think about it". My husband gave him all the time he needed--because he let the guy go on the spot. My husband couldn't risk his business interests by having a guy on the fence, and talking to the competition.

I would never tell unless I had a firm offer. But I'm selfish that way.

Karen

[tulip]

I work on a very specialized high tech product that takes months to learn, and right now we are very thinly staffed, so I would like to give them as much time as possible to find and train a replacement. Now that I have made the decision to leave, I can't really think of any reason not to tell them.

I agree with Tucker...unless you have a firm offer in hand, don't give notice. You might be left with nothing.

Best of luck in your endeavors!

[han-grrl]

I agree with the others on getting a more firm offer in hand.

Before i took this job (a week and a half to go!) I did have another job offer (verbal only). He said he would email me later that week. That turned into two weeks, and then...its as if he disappeared! He wouldn't return my emails or calls, in the mean time i still continued with interviews. Then i got the second offer...so i called the first company (to let them know that I needed to make a decision) and only heard back a week and half AFter I accepted my job offer that he still wants to hire me but this that and the other thing had happened (can we say RED FLAG!). I really wanted to work for this guy (at first), but then when all of that happened...no way!

So yes, before making the announcement, get something on paper first. Because even when something seems definite, things can change pretty quick.

[surgtech1956]

I don't know what the 'firing, letting an employee go' policy is in your states, but in Michigan an employer can fire an employee for no reason at all. My attorney told me that even if an employee is off on worker's comp they can be fired(of course the employer would still have to pay wc benefits).

I agree with not telling your boss till you have a firm offer.

[Tuckervill]

Another thing you can do is negotiate with the new employer for a later start date than you would give normally (more than 2 weeks, for instance). That way, with firm offer in hand, you can give your current employer time to retrain, reorganize and regroup with your help, but only for a limited time so you won't be strung along. They still may only want you there for 2 weeks or 2 minutes, though.

Karen

[surgtech1956]

I have an interview Monday morning. The position is Clinical Research Specialist with the Oncology Department. The only problem is that I realized that the position I applied is the part-time 48 hour bi-weekly, the 80 hour position is for a Bachelor's degree. The 80 hour position has been posted since March 2007. What this position pays vs what I'm getting paid in my current position(working 75 hours) - I would make the same $$$ working 48 hours. I want more than 48 hours. Would it be wrong to inquire if the position will become full time or inquire about the 80 hour position?

[tulip]

I have an interview Monday morning. The position is Clinical Research Specialist with the Oncology Department. The only problem is that I realized that the position I applied is the part-time 48 hour bi-weekly, the 80 hour position is for a Bachelor's degree. The 80 hour position has been posted since March 2007. What this position pays vs what I'm getting paid in my current position(working 75 hours) - I would make the same $$$ working 48 hours. I want more than 48 hours. Would it be wrong to inquire if the position will become full time or inquire about the 80 hour position?

I think it sounds reasonable to ask about that. Let us know how it goes!

[smilingcat]

Dear Froglegs,

Your intentions are well meaning. BUT MANY EMPLOYERS WILL ESCORT YOU OUT THE BUILDING ON THE SAME DAY!! If you are a key person, they might make a counter offer. If you say I'll think about it THEY WILL WALK YOU RIGHT OUT.

Like Tuckervill says, after you accept a new job, tell them it will be two weeks before you start then give your current employer a two week notice. Here in California, if you give a two week notice, your employer can still walk you out the same day; but, they have to pay you for the two weeks as if you were still employed. Not sure about the benefits like insurance.

I've seen people walked out after giving the two week notice.

So please please don't give them a heads up until your new position is secure. New employers don't mind if you take two or three weeks before starting.

-------------
Dear Surgtech,

Never hurts to inquire about a position becoming fulltime.

smilingcat

[froglegs]

I've seen a few people in similar positions at my company do the very same thing - give warning that they were thinking about leaving. One had already made the decision to move away but had not found a job yet, one announced that he was leaving to go to grad school full time, and one actually had a job offer and told them he was contemplating it. All three were allowed to stay until it was time for them to leave (6 months in the case of grad school guy), and the one who was considering another offer was given a counteroffer by my company and ended up staying for another year. The job we do is extremely specialized and it takes many months to train someone to the point where they are useful, and right now the timing is such that if they didn't let me stay, the production schedule would be totally screwed up.

I have decided not to tell them because if the job I interviewed for doesn't work out, I have no idea how long it will be until I find one, and raise time is just around the corner. Grad school guy didn't get a raise because of his announcement.

I know people sometimes get walked out for doing what I was thinking about doing. I know people who it's happened to. I think it's even happened at my company, but I am pretty familiar with how things work in my dept and the people I work for, and I just don't think they would do it, especially considering that they haven't in the past. There would be no reason for them to except to punish me, and they would just be hurting themselves.

[surgtech1956]

I had my interview, went well. It was strange going on an interview - last time I had an interview was in 1994. I asked if the position would ever be full time - sounds like probably not, at least not anytime soon. They called and asked if I would want to shadow to see if I'd want the position. I decided its not really a job I wanted. It was in the Onocology Dept and was a Research Specialist - not really having a permanent desk/office, but working out of a Onocologist's office. Back to square one. I got a lead on another job that might be posted. We'll see. Anyways, I see my Orthopedic Surgeon on the 7th, I'm going to see if I can go back to my 'real job'.