Interesting article about fat... [Archive] - Women's Cycling Discussion Forums

Jolt

01-13-2008, 05:18 PM

OakLeaf

01-13-2008, 05:32 PM

Michael Pollan's books have cited some interesting research along the lines that food isn't fungible. Well, of course it isn't, but all these "studies" assume a priori that it is.

If our own health is affected by what we eat, why wouldn't the health of food animals (and plants) be affected by what they eat? Studies have shown that the fat of serrano ham (fed exclusively on acorns) and grass-finished beef (the diet of the Maasai who are the example they usually trot out), for instance, have a very different composition from the fat of animals fed on corn (which is not a natural part of these animals' diet).

A corollary to Pollan's "Eat food" would be, "If and when you eat animal products, take them from animals that have eaten food." That would be a very small minority of what's on the butcher and dairy shelves.

Jolt

01-13-2008, 05:38 PM

OakLeaf, that's a good point that I forgot to mention in my original post. Most of the meat, eggs and dairy products we get in the supermarkets come from animals that have been fed a very unnatural diet and this most likely does affect how healthy the products are for us. Not to mention the pesticides, antibiotics etc. used in a lot of agriculture today (don't get me started on how such practices contribute to antibiotic resistance...).

mimitabby

01-13-2008, 06:32 PM

The last paragraph aligns perfectly with what I've always believed:

"The message isn't that you should gorge on butter, bacon, and cheese," says Volek. "It's that there's no scientific reason that natural foods containing saturated fat can't, or shouldn't, be part of a healthy diet."

kelownagirl

01-13-2008, 06:36 PM

I like butter hence my sig. line. I usually eat it in moderation. :D :D

mimitabby

01-13-2008, 06:42 PM

Kgirl, I've been a butter advocate since the early 1970's. how could margarine, which comes out of a machine, be better than cowbutter?

Now Olive oil is another story, even "better" for you; but there are some places where ONLY butter will do.

People who are vegetarians get high cholesterol. A coworker of mine, an Indian woman whose only non-vegetarian food was yogurt, was having trouble with her cholesterol and getting chubby. She went to the doctor who told her to INCREASE her protein intake (more yoghurt and BEANS!)
and decrease stuff like white rice. She lost weight and her cholesterol is better.
Knowing how strict she is with diet (unlike most of us cheaters) she was a good case study.

As Long as Meat is available, I'm going to eat it. Not a lot, but it's a part of my diet. Without it, I don't feel as good.

Eden

01-13-2008, 06:48 PM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22116724/

What do you all think? I think they might be on to something...everyone ate the stuff for years and years, and they didn't seem to have all the problems we do now--this may turn out to be just one more case of "everything in moderation" and sticking to natural products rather than processed and fake foods. Of course, I think a big part of it is also the lack of physical activity in our society today---when people were eating a lot more of the saturated animal fats etc., they were also getting a lot more exercise in their daily life than most people do now, so those fats were being used for energy.

I think one of the things we really have to remember is that it really pretty recent that most people have had access to such large amounts of food, and animal proteins especially. Not too long ago meat, and red meat especially was a treat, to be used sparingly or maybe once each week or two. Not only that - most people's everyday lives are much less physically demanding these days. We have so many convienences that save us physical labor that we and so much food that its no wonder there are now so many obese people at severe risk for a coronary.
We might also consider that life expectancy has increased too. Many illnesses and accidents that were killers not too long ago are now survivable, and people that live longer will die of something eventually. This may be leading to more deaths via heart disease as more people are living long enough to develop it, so it may be difficult to say that people of generations ago may not have had significant amounts of heart disease, but they just did not die of it....

Eden

01-13-2008, 06:52 PM

I like butter hence my sig. line. I usually eat it in moderation. :D :D

Things with modified fats (hydrogenated, fractionated...) are WORSE than the real thing - I don't know if its true any more, but I seem to recall most margerines used to be nice fat sticks of hydrogenated oils, so it would in fact be much better to stick to real honest to goodness butter....

We use olive oil or canola oil for 99.9% of the cooking in our house. I probably use less than 2lbs of butter in an entire year...

kelownagirl

01-13-2008, 06:54 PM

I use olive oil for all of my cooking but if I put something on my bread etc, it's butter.

Eden

01-13-2008, 06:59 PM

I use olive oil for all of my cooking but if I put something on my bread etc, it's butter.

Call me weird, but I don't like buttered bread... I used to use butter for cooking eggs, but now that I've discovered cooking spray I'm a convert. It doesn't taste nasty like eggs cooked in oil can and it actually works better for releasing fried eggs too. It's also super easy to apply to a waffle iron and my husband likes making whole grain waffles :D.

Jolt

01-13-2008, 07:37 PM

I think one of the things we really have to remember is that it really pretty recent that most people have had access to such large amounts of food, and animal proteins especially. Not too long ago meat, and red meat especially was a treat, to be used sparingly or maybe once each week or two. Not only that - most people's everyday lives are much less physically demanding these days. We have so many convienences that save us physical labor that we and so much food that its no wonder there are now so many obese people at severe risk for a coronary.
We might also consider that life expectancy has increased too. Many illnesses and accidents that were killers not too long ago are now survivable, and people that live longer will die of something eventually. This may be leading to more deaths via heart disease as more people are living long enough to develop it, so it may be difficult to say that people of generations ago may not have had significant amounts of heart disease, but they just did not die of it....

The overeating issue is definitely part of our problem today, combined with the lack of physical activity. As far as the life expectancy increasing, that could certainly be part of the explanation for the heart disease deaths increasing--it does make sense that more people used to die from other things before the clogged arteries had a chance to happen. I'm really getting frustrated at all the "back and forth" stuff that goes on in the world of nutrition as far as what's healthy and what's not. Especially since I'm going into nursing and planning to specialize in cardiology--I feel like I need to get this straight in order to recommend the right things to my patients. So far, the safest advice seems to me to be the following: moderation is a good general rule, you're best off sticking to natural, minimally processed foods, eat lots of fruits and vegetables, avoid trans fats like the plague, and stay away from crappy carbs like white flour and large amounts of sugar. Not to mention physical activity is important.

Wahine

01-13-2008, 07:55 PM

I hear you Jolt. I am often asked to make general lifestyle recommendations to people at high risk for cardiovascular disease and I'm really fed up with the way the media flip flops everything all the time and over simplifies. It's difficult to convince an uneducated person to change there diet when what they hear is contradictory statements in the news and magazines. There attitude is that nobody knows anything anyway so what does it matter.:mad::mad:

I myself am at high risk for cardiovascular disease. I both of my parents suffered heart attacks by the age of 60 and now I have a brother with advanced atherosclerosis at age 45. I sure hope the eating right, no smoking, exercise and not obese factors count for something!! But sometimes you wonder.

Eden

01-13-2008, 07:56 PM

I think you sound right on track - nothing will likely kill you if you are sensible about *how much* of it you eat (execpt maybe transfats :eek:)
I just think articles like the one you posted are often a little light on looking at the bigger picture or at very least you have to be sure to read carefully.... OK- you might accept eating more saturated fats may be better for some people, but don't forget to eat your veggies too....
I also think a lot of people forget that fats contain so many more calories for the same amount of food, so they don't appropriately scale their intake when they eat them.

kelownagirl

01-13-2008, 08:39 PM

shootingstar

01-13-2008, 09:17 PM

I did grow up in household with butter..1 lb. lasted us for over 1 month or so. 8 people in family. Later it was margarine which also took ages to disappear. I mean hey, I was raised on 80% Asian diet until I left home.

then after leaving home, I never bought butter for home. Margarine. Then stopped margarine about 10 years ago or so. No reason. Just lazy. Besides 1 small tub of margarine would take me several months to finish.

At home, we don't stock margarine nor butter. Once his son, who is a chef, cooked some wonderful meals for us when he visited. I was so shocked to see 3/4 of lb. butter disappear for 2 meals, which included for apple pie crust.

Nowadays I only have butter at a restaurant for roll(s) or if it occurs in purchased baked goods. Partner is from a German line of family pastry chefs, etc., so butter does creep into special occasion meals --2-3 times / year for meals that he prepares.

We use safflower, sunflower and olive oil at home. No we don't use spray. Guess I never got around to it.

Life without butter and margarine is very painless....and it is for millions of people around the world.

Tuckervill

01-14-2008, 06:24 AM

Call me weird, but I don't like buttered bread... I used to use butter for cooking eggs, but now that I've discovered cooking spray I'm a convert. It doesn't taste nasty like eggs cooked in oil can and it actually works better for releasing fried eggs too. It's also super easy to apply to a waffle iron and my husband likes making whole grain waffles :D.

I never eat butter on bread, either, unless it's at a restaurant with special herbed butter or something. Then just a taste. I don't eat gravy, either--not since I was a child, but I make good gravy.

I've used real butter for about 8 years, too, and olive oil.

You're no so weird. :)

I have trouble getting enough protein in my diet since I started seriously losing weight. I never hit the goal, so I've taken to eating 4 slices of lean deli ham as a snack. I will always eat meat, too, but as a "condiment", like Christianne Northrup says.

Karen

Karen

bmccasland

01-14-2008, 08:30 AM

But there is something about butter melted on a warm slice of whole wheat bread fresh from the oven... aaaah. which is why it doesn't occur very often

My problem with the sprays is two things - the spray can, and inhaling the aerosol oils. When I used them, I had to go outside to spray, sticking my nose up wind. Now I don't bother. But I don't cook eggs for breakfast either. For sauteing veggies or other things I use some olive oil in a non-stick pan. If I'm going to bake I use paper muffin tin liners (for muffins) or crisco to grease the pan. Heck if I'm going to bake a cake, what's a little crisco when there's a couple of sticks of butter involved anyway? Moderation folks, in moderation, and share!

Wahine

01-14-2008, 08:37 AM

My Dad had one of these and swore by it.

http://www.amazon.com/Endurance-RSVP-Oil-Mister/dp/B000QSFKRO/ref=pd_sbs_gf_img_3

No aerosol, can still use olive oil, or my favorite, walnut oil.

Flybye

01-14-2008, 08:55 AM

I have started to use light tasting olive oil and salt on my popcorn instead of butter and salt. I have my whole family hooked.

Come to the other side............. I will have you converted in no time!:):):):):):):):):):)

OakLeaf

01-14-2008, 08:57 AM

Yup, I use those pump sprayers too. I used to have another one for hair spray, and I'd fill them with spray that came in the regular non-aerosol bottles. I can't stand the waste, toxics and greenhouse gases involved in single-use aerosol cans.

Only thing is they're a real PITA to clean. It can be done though. Very warm water and a lot of dish soap, pump and spray through about a kawillion times, repeat with plain rinse water.

But I don't obsess over the amount of oil I use for sauteeing, and more often than not I'm cooking beans in the pressure cooker which requires a tablespoon or two of oil to keep the foaming down. So mostly I use the oil sprayer for greasing my silicone baking pans. Not that I do a lot of baking... and that's pretty much the only time I use butter (never margarine or crisco) :cool:

kelownagirl

01-14-2008, 10:49 AM

You're supposed to wash them??

OakLeaf

01-14-2008, 12:42 PM

You're supposed to wash them??

I guess if you're using them pretty constantly they stay flushed out. I don't worry about it until the oil starts smelling rancid :cool:

Tuckervill

01-14-2008, 03:59 PM

Jolt

01-14-2008, 04:32 PM

I don't use non-stick pans anymore--they have some serious health issues of their own. No aluminum, either. Either stainless steel (with things that won't stick in the first place), or for eggs, gravy, etc., a very well-seasoned 30-year-old cast iron skillet, and its smaller companions. I got an enameled cast iron soup pot for xmas and I'm very pleased with it.

Karen

Yeah, I'm trying to get away from the nonstick pans myself after hearing about the problems with Teflon. As far as aluminum, the only time I cook in that is if I'm backpacking (the weight difference between that and stainless steel is quite significant when you're carrying everything on your back!). The only thing that stinks about avoiding the nonstick skillets is that the stainless steel one I've been using is the PITS to clean after cooking eggs etc. in it!!!

OakLeaf

01-14-2008, 07:44 PM

stainless steel one I've been using is the PITS to clean after cooking eggs etc. in it!!!

Try old fashioned cast iron. It's a bit of work to get it properly seasoned, but once you've got a season on it, it's as non-stick as Teflon.

Most of my cookware is Le Creuset (enameled cast iron). Not nonstick, but way easy to clean. Scour it, soak it, throw it in the dishwasher. Love the stuff.

As far as bakeware, silicone! silicone! Totally nonstick, flexible and nontoxic.

I still long for a skillet I can abuse, though, and as much as I love it, cast iron ain't it. Does anyone know anything about Calphalon One?

kelownagirl

01-14-2008, 08:51 PM

Hey I was looking at the silicone stuff the other day. Does it change the way you bake at all ie length of time, temp etc?

As far as the teflon etc thing - I'm not afraid. I gave up on worrying about every little thing, for better or worse. If the govt says it's bad and takes it off the market, then I'll stop using it. Maybe I got my head in the sand but it isn't worth the worry to me... :)

smilingcat

01-14-2008, 10:07 PM

love butter. Used to buy it case at a time(30lb to a case) unsalted for cooking.

My cookies do not use crisco, or vegetable oil nor do my brownies. My palmiers only use real butter and so does my brioch. Come to think about it I DON'T USE CRISCO or the spray on stuff. I only use old fashioned unsalted butter, olive oil, canola, peanut and sesame. I've learned not to use lard.

my pancake recipe has butter. so does my bread, muffin, ...

The trick is like Beth says: IN MODERATION. I use butter to season not to drown my food in it.

Most all of my sauces start with butter or use butter to "polish" the sauce. The sauce I make are really flavorful and wonderful. You only need a dab. You don't have to drown your food in it.

my fav sauces: Bechamel, Mornay (adulterated Bechamel), Hollandaise, Bernaise, mayo (and its variation) all use butter.

Gravy is a sauce. I only use small amount of dripping to give it depth. Use the dripping to make a roux. brown or dark is fine. then I use strong stock and DRINKING wine. I polish the gravy with little bit of butter and lemon juice for that sparkle in taste.

----------------
fried eggs: its not fried if ain't fried in butter or bacon drippings. If you don't want it stuck on the pan and not use a cast iron or teflon, have it poached. Eggs Benedict with terragon hollandaise sauce.

----------------
who was asking about the silpads or the silicon mold. DON'T GREASE them. Silicon molds and silpads are there to release your cupcake, bread, cake etc without the need of butter or oil. I wash my "silpads" with strong detergent at the end of the day.

Temperature setting and baking time varies with the brand you use.
If the pad is thick add about 5 minutes. if it is dark brown or dark orange drop the temperature. And if you are using a convection oven, drop the temperature a minimum of 25 degrees and reduce your cooking time. Unfortunately, only way to know for sure is trial and error. Oh the only exception is when I'm baking choux pastries as in puff pastry or eclair shells. Those have to be baked at 425F

smilingcat

Tuckervill

01-15-2008, 05:37 AM

Lodge sells pre-seasoned cast iron these days. However, it's not difficult to season cast iron. Grease it up and put it in a low oven. I cook outdoors with cast iron Dutch ovens and I seasoned those in the fire. The best way to season them is to use them. Don't use soap to clean them (gets in the seasoning and "flavors" your food). Dry thoroughly before putting away. I do it the old fashioned way by putting it on the stove and turning on the heat until hot, then let it sit there until cool.

I spray Pam on my Dutch ovens before I put them away in their cases until next time. I never oil the pans I use daily, because they live on the stove top and don't have time to rust.

I lusted after the Le Creuset, but settled for a cheaper alternative.

Karen

Eden

01-15-2008, 08:46 AM

Crisco is pure hydrogenated oil.... I wouldn't even use it to grease a pan....

My brownie recipe has applesauce in it :D... no oil or butter needed. The only added fat is from the egg yolks and you'd never know. I've recently discovered that in some baking recipes applesauce is a great substitute. It will not work in recipes that use fat to create flakiness - so no biscuits, pies etc, but it does work really well in brownies and quickbreads.

Jolt

01-15-2008, 09:11 AM

Crisco is pure hydrogenated oil.... I wouldn't even use it to grease a pan....

I agree--YUCK! When I'm home, I always give my mother a hard time if I see her use it.

emily_in_nc

01-15-2008, 06:38 PM

I use Le Creuset enameled cookware and love it. It's pricey even at the outlet near us, but lasts a LONG time. Also have a Calphalon stainless steel wok. We dumped all our non-stick after reading articles online about its toxicity. Ours was even flaking. Scary!

I love real butter (organic, preferably) and extra virgin olive oil. No margarine or Crisco in our home, ever.

Yes, I'm a bit of a food snob.... :D

Emily

Tuckervill

01-16-2008, 06:14 AM

It's so much easier to enjoy your food and eat sensibly if you use the quality ingredients. I feel like a food snob sometimes, when I get very critical over a menu at a restaurant, looking for the healthiest thing. I had lunch with my mother on Friday, and I could sense she was thinking I was being snobby. Why not just order a hamburger, is what she's thinking, you know? I'm just trying to ensure and protect my health. I deserve that.

Karen