Another reason NOT to buy a Wal Mart bike..

[Running Mommy]

So lastnight running hubby and I decided to take a field trip to the local Wal Mart to check out what our "big box competition" looks like.
I had about 5 people come by the store looking for bikes yesterday- despite the fact that I'm not even OPEN- and a couple of them mentioned having been to wal mart and target.
So I figured that to be able to counter the wal mart low price point I really needed to KNOW what they had.
HOLY MOLY do they have some poorly built bikes. First of all the wheels looked like they were about as strong as tin cans on the cruisers. And then Tony noticed that some of the brake cables were not installed correctly on some of the mtn bikes with disc brakes. But the kicker was the comfort bike that had it's suspension fork mounted BACKWARDS!!! Yes, completely backwards!!
That just shows you that the people putting those things together have NO CLUE what they are doing.
Tony's mechanic eye also noted some other potential safety issues. It was actually kinda scary. I mean people that don't know better are going to be purchasing these bikes- and often times for their kids- and they are putting themselves/children at risk. Part of me wanted to grab the manager and show him the glaring safety issues, but in the end I just walked out of there totally disgusted.
I already kind of had my spiel down to combat the "but wal mart is 200-300 cheaper", but now I REALLY have it down! And really, they aren't THAT much cheaper! Our low end Jamis mtn bike is only 100.00 more. I think the cruisers are the ones that are much cheaper. They were 89.00, ours are around 300.

But what I explained to the guy yesterday is this.
When you buy a bike from a big box retailer, once it's home- you are on your own. There is no one to take it to there when the cables stretch and it needs adjusting, or you have questions about it, or problems.
When you buy a bike from a bike shop you are not only getting a bike that's mechanically superior, but when you need to come in for adjustments, we take care of you. We offer free adjustments for life when you buy the bike from us. Yes you will have to pay for things such as new chains, or parts that wear out. But when you just need the brakes or derralliuers adjusted, we will take care of it for you. Yes, we will work on the wal mart bikes, but it will cost you. So in the end you may actually end up spending MORE than you would if you had bought from a bike shop.
Also a bike from a bike shop has been assembled by a professional mechanic. Most big box retailers hire people to build their bikes who have no prefessional bike mechanic experience. If they DID they would be working in a bike shop. So there can be big safety issues with the build of these bikes. I used to work for wal mart, and I remember our manager paying a few medical bills for folks who ended up in the emergency room because of the shoddy build on their bikes (yes this is a true story.).
And lastly, you really do get what you pay for price wise. These bikes shift better, are generally much lighter, and will be much more fun to ride. If I put you on a wal mart bike, and then on one of these Felts you would instantly know what I'm talking about.

So yeah, that was my spiel. And the guy agreed. In fact he was ready to buy a Felt Z100.... But I'm not OPEN yet because the landlord didn't do all the things the fire dept. asked him to do! Arrggghhhh!!

[Wahine]

Wow RM. That's a great spiel. And I hope the landlord gets things taken care of soon so you can open and start selling bikes!! Yipppeeeee :D:D

[smilingcat]

sounds like you already have eager customers wating in line. :D :D :D

Tis the problem with big box stores. Yes I've seen incorrectly assembled bike. Cheap cheap stammped out components. Like I don't know where they get the people to assemble the bikes. It's scary.

I used to get "Why does your mug cost $10-$20.00 when I can go to Von's (AP, Safeway, Albertson...) and get it for $2.00? you're over priced and out of your mind.". This at craft shows with emphesis on HAND MADE. I had my polite comeback "Its hand made and decorated by me. And each is diffrent". I gave up on pottery years ago. Still have have my "toys" and my supplies 1/2 ton of procelain. Another reason was, "can I get a discount?" sometimes I REALLY wanted to say something like, " Would you take a 50% paycut?"

Sorry for derailing but the best thing is to inform the customer on what they are getting from you versus big box stores.

smilingcat

[7rider]

But the kicker was the comfort bike that had it's suspension fork mounted BACKWARDS!!! Yes, completely backwards!!

Tony's mechanic eye also noted some other potential safety issues. It was actually kinda scary.

Yes, we will work on the wal mart bikes, but it will cost you. So in the end you may actually end up spending MORE than you would if you had bought from a bike shop.

You should take pix (on the sly?) of these shoddy bikes as photographic evidence for folks who come in and say "Why should I buy a $300 bike from you, when I can walk into Wal-mart and get one for $89?" Also, show the difference b/t junk components and plastic bits, vs. the better components of "real" bikes. Better yet, BUY one of them and display it in the shop with a sign on it: "Do you really want to RIDE this bike??? Ask me about it." And tell them point-for-point the difference b/t "their" bike and "your" bike.

Also, can you work on box store bikes? Our LBS recently said "no" because of the liability issues associated with those clunkers. They will sell you the parts, but they're not allowed to touch them.

[Trek420]

You could post some articles on your window while waiting to open ie: why you should wait to buy your bike here rather than Big Box Store :o

[Fredwina]

I'll agree with Regina - some type of presentation that show the differnce could come in handy

[alpinerabbit]

I second (third) the undercover report plus pictures. Just don't mention names I guess.

[mimitabby]

I wish you luck combatting the walmart shoppers. For christmas at my office we buy gifts for children. Someone bought a kid's bike from walmart. It sat next to my desk for a week and all the bike guys came around and looked at it.
The most disturbing thing about it was that the brakes didn't work. They couldn't. they were mounted crooked so the pads were just floating in air.
Then my neighbor's kid got a walmart bike too. It broke the first day. He brought it over to my husband to fix. What could he do? it was a piece of junk.

I am sure you will carve a nice niche with people that like customer service and want bikes that last for more than a week.

[Bad JuJu]

If you have time, you might even work up a little cost-comparison chart: your bike vs. Wally bike
cost of adjustments after 30 days and so on
cost of repairs
cost of new parts
cost of medical bills when crummy brakes fail to work

OK, that might be overdoing it a bit, but people seem to like comparison charts with info in small, easily digestible bites.

[Wahine]

Here's an interesting article meant as a guide for buying bikes:

http://www.abbysguide.com/bike/guide/where-to-buy.html

You could quote it. I don't know if I would want to include the bit about how it's OK to buy a big box bike if the child will grow out of it quickly.

I also really like Juju's suggestion.

As for purchasing a bike for display or taking photos, it's a good idea but I'd be really careful about stepping on toes. The last thing you want is a corporation like Wally World breathing down your neck.

[Mr. SR500]

Let the WM crowd buy cheap crappy bikes, while you'll convince a few, many are too cheap to care or will drive you crazy thinking they need to get that extra $200 in service.

For the most part many big box bikes seems ok for the intended purpose. Kids bikes, cruisers, etc... If someone gets serious about riding or wants a quality bike they will come see you. I doubt many box store bikes see many miles.

We by kids bikes from bike stores, because I ride and look for certain things in all bikes. Not many people will buy a kids size road bike, but I'll likely buy one in a couple years.

It's good to have your facts, but don't invest to much time on that demographic, you'll be fair better off selling hybirds, road, and mountain bikes to people who are looking for a quality experience from product, sales, and service.

[Mr. SR500]

One more comment. My cousin and his wife each received $200 for a bike from his parents. They have 2 kids, and while she stays home, he owns a successful business in a larger city. They have a very nice house, daughter goes to private school, and have new cars.

So I said a Trek 7100 (entry level hybrid) would be a good bike to look at. We gave one to my sister for Christmas. Comfortable to ride, well built, overall a very good value for your money. Anyway they run $325 - $350. My cousins said that was too much, they wouldn't be able to spend more then the $200 they had been given.

So for $200 they can buy a WM bike, helmet, and pair of short. But the bike will likely be a POS, and perform poorly, so how much will they really ride it.

But for another $200, they could have a nice quality bike from a shop that would take good care of them, and my guess is really enjoy biking.

These are people that could easily afford it, but I doubt they will ever get it. That is fine, but shows the mine set of some customers.

They were asking about what I got for Christmas. I just said some wheels, if I explained a new set of Bontrager Aero wheels with a PowerTap hub, they would die Mrs. spent that much on anything bike related. Better to just say some new wheels :)

[sundial]

Let the WM crowd buy cheap crappy bikes, while you'll convince a few.....

Around here families work in factories, many of which have closed or will close to go overseas. Many do not have the resources or knowledge to buy a proper bike, so for our town, Wal-Mart has a good market. :(

[Mr. SR500]

Around here families work in factories, many of which have closed or will close to go overseas. Many do not have the resources or knowledge to buy a proper bike, so for our town, Wal-Mart has a good market. :(

Same here, but used bikes are often very reasonable. If someone takes time, they can often find a quality used bike for a fraction of the new cost. Just another option for some people.

[7rider]

So I said a Trek 7100 (entry level hybrid) would be a good bike to look at. We gave one to my sister for Christmas. Comfortable to ride, well built, overall a very good value for your money. Anyway they run $325 - $350. My cousins said that was too much, they wouldn't be able to spend more then the $200 they had been given.

So for $200 they can buy a WM bike, helmet, and pair of short. But the bike will likely be a POS, and perform poorly, so how much will they really ride it.



So, instead of putting in an extra $200 for a bike they might enjoy and continue riding, the piss away the $200 on a POS that will sit in the garage and gather dust. Wise use of their gift money! :rolleyes:

RunningMommy will likely only ever see in her store those who are "on the fence" with respect to real vs. box bikes.

[Wahine]

I am often in the position of trying to encourage people to become more active for their health's sake. One of the things I always tell them is to find something you like to do, if you don't like it there is no way you're going to stick to the program. If you choose an activity, like cycling, get decent equipment. It will make the activity enjoyable and you're more likely to stick to it. If the equipment sucks, you'll quit because using it won't be fun. I also point out that if the better quality equipment doesn't do the trick of getting them to continue with exercise, at least they'll get some money back when they sell it, as opposed to a POS which has no resale value.

[teigyr]

While I think that we all know logically why the LBS is better and why a $200 bike from Wal-Mart isn't as good as a $400-$500 bike from the LBS, many people don't think that way.

I took a friend bike shopping a while ago. He's a heavier person and was told that riding a bike would be good for him because walking (or running) puts a lot of strain on his feet and legs. He had concerns as to whether a bike could handle his weight.

We went around to the local shops and found one that would sell him a bike for $400. They would rebuild the rear wheel to handle additional strain due to weight and that would be around $80. They were willing to swap out some parts that he didn't like and they were going to upgrade some other things. The bike and frame would have a 10 year warranty (I believe), the wheel build would be a lifetime warranty. They would handle all the initial tune-ups, etc., at no cost. The total price was under $500.

He didn't go for it. Instead, he lamented about how "when we were kids, bikes were cheap and we rode them everywhere". He also was put off by the whole array of clothes, gloves, and helmets because "when we were kids, we didn't wear any of that stuff". After all of it and even though he had concerns about a bike being able to handle his weight, he decided he really didn't want to spend that much money even though he had the money and his doctor really urged him to do this.

I went over everything with him, about how the first few months the bike'll go out of adjustment, about how you need someone to help you build it up if you don't know what you're doing, and about how warranty (and lifetime warranty of that wheel build...the warranty included truing) were nothing compared to what he'd pay for by buying a Wal-Mart type bike.

So I guess I'm saying it makes sense to us. We can list it out and from experience, we know what it's like and what to expect. There are people, however, that have the "when I was a kid" mentality and think a bike is just a bike and quality (or lack thereof) is just an excuse to raise the price. I think it's wise to have examples though for those people who are open to discussion. Pictures or a cost comparison might appeal to some.

Shopping with that guy made me want to bang my head on the wall.

[Flybye]

Let me start out by saying that I agree with posts #1-17.

Also, let me add that I have purchased 9 bikes from Wal-Mart for my kids. They have literally ridden these bikes until there is no tread left on the tires. First, I purchased three bikes with training wheels, one for each of my kids, then I purchased three bikes, again one for each kid, that were a size up, and then again, three bikes, one for each kid that were one more step up in size. No problems with assembly, brakes, bike function, etc.

Also, in college, both my DH and I rode Huffy Mountain Bikes EVERYWHERE- including the mountains. I am baffled when I think of the trails that we had these bikes on.

Of those 11 bikes, I only had to make repairs to one of them (other than fixing a flat) and that is because my DH backed over it with the truck. We called the MFG of the bike (Next) and they sent us, completely free, a new wheel and two new tubes for this bike.

Let me state again that I agree with the posts prior to this. However - there's the kicker- not all Wal-Mart bikes are put together wrong, and not all riders need a bike from the LBS.

Now that my kids are older (10 and 11) I will most likely not purchase a Wal-Bike. I think they will be on their next bikes longer because they aren't growing quite as fast as they used to and so I can appreciate spending a little more money on a bike that will be rode for more than 2 summers.

I do think that it would be a great idea as others have mentioned, to take some shots of poorly assembled bikes and have them in a binder for customers to look at.

Oh, and for whatever it is worth, I know the LBS has made a (ahem) mistake or two themselves on an assembled bike in the showroom..................

We have one place to shop here for anything other than groceries - Wal-Mart. (Unless you want ranch and farm supplies) As much as I hate to admit it, they do get a large portion of our monthly wages, along with the rest of the towns wages. Sad, but true.

[SandyLS]

My teenage granddaughter's uncle purchased a Wal-Mart bike for her last summer. The bike's brakes were not installed properly and she crashed into the side of a car in a driveway going down a steep hill as she was on her way to work. Luckily she only ended up with some road rash and bruises. If you must buy a bike from a big box store make sure to look it over or have it looked over by someone who knows about bikes before you ride . Probably good advice where ever you buy a bike!
Hubby and I each own bike shop bikes and enjoy them (Bianchi Veloce for me, EZ Racer Goldrush recumbent for hubby.) But, last year we spent several weeks in Hawaii and bought Wal-Mart mountian bikes to use while we were there. These worked for our needs there mostly because hubby is a pretty good wrench and was able to make adjustments which were needed often. We were very glad to get back on our 'good' bikes when we got home from vacation.

[Mr. Bloom]

RM: I'm hoping I can meet ya'll next time I'm in Phoenix.:)

I encourage you to stay focused on YOUR value proposition and what YOU offer.

My experience is that when someone gets too empassioned in their criticism of the competition, I get suspicious of them and delay my decision. The trick is 'being right' but not having them think bad about you.

To some, price will be THE issue...they often won't tell you that they can't afford anything better and you don't want them feeling bad about themselves.

[missymaya]

Now, I believe (don't have back up informartion) that there was a lawsuit towards one of the big box stores because a little girl was riding her bike and the quill stem was not properly tightened, it dropped and she went head over the handle bars, cutting her face pretty bad and had to get stiches. Now, this is what I was told by one of the guys I work with at the LBS, I could be wrong and please correct me if so.
Now that it's after January, we've gotten a ton of bikes that need to be fixed and unfortunately, most of them coming from big box stores. It saddens me because these people are buying the bikes and then putting more $$ into them just so they can run.

[Mr. Bloom]

Another reason to focus on your value:

http://www.bike-eu.com/news/2485/wal-mart-enters-hi-end-bike-market.html

But, here's one of the lawsuits missy was referring to:

http://walmartwatch.com/blog/archives/wal_mart_back_pedaling/

[Running Mommy]

Yeah mr. silver. I do recognize that some people just can't afford anything else. Or like one of the other posters said, they don't think bikes should cost more than a hundred bucks, because "back in the day....."
Yeah, well BACK IN THE DAY car's were much less expensive too. As was everything else. Those people are just going to be the way they are going to be.
But I really don't want anyone to feel bad about what they ride. I just want to see people riding and having fun- no matter what the ride is!
My concern is the safety issue. Flybye is lucky. She must have a decent mechanic up there. But being in a farm community perhaps the bike assembler has been working on farm equipment all their life, so are mechanical by nature. Of course that's just a guess...
But I can say that the wal mart in Rohnert Park CA were I used to work used kids, and we had A LOT of incidents of people getting hurt.
And here in Goodyear I see the same sort of thing.
BTW- I did take a pic on my phone of the backwards fork. Now I just have to figure out how to get it OUT of my phone! lol
But yeah, good exchange here, good ideas!

[Tuckervill]

Big box stores sometimes hire contractors to put together all kinds of things in their stores. The guy who sells the contract to the big box store hires out the actual assembly to whomever they can get for ten bucks an hour. The assembler is a subcontractor, meaning he is not an employee, so no taxes are paid on his behalf, and he's probably not "bonded and insured", either. He's probably young, someone who needed a job and would be doing something else if he didn't "know a guy".

I know all this because my son did it for a time. He was the kid who "knew a guy", but he didn't assemble bikes. He assembled furniture and other stuff for Target.

Karen

[teigyr]

I wonder if there's a way to have someone test-ride a really really heavy low-end bike (that you wouldn't really carry anyway) and then a better one?

I know that for some people, there's a budget. I guess everyone should learn that buying something cheap several times because it breaks is not more cost efficient than buying something a bit more expensive that lasts. Heck, I learned that with shoes ages ago :D

I honestly think that some people still see bikes as toys. And you're right, back in the day other things were cheaper too but I bet if you compared the price to income, the bike wasn't THAT cheap. I'm lucky. When my parents bought me a bike, they went to the local bike shop and got me a decent one.

[Tuckervill]

So pick up a Big Box bike at a garage sale and keep it in the shop as a "trade-in". Give your customers an opportunity to try both.

If I had a bike shop I'd have used bikes, too. Maybe you wanted not to have any used bikes around, but it could be useful. I always love a bike shop that has old beaters and beauties just waiting to be admired.

Karen

[Melalvai]

I have purchased 9 bikes from Wal-Mart for my kids...
Now that my kids are older (10 and 11) I will most likely not purchase a Wal-Bike.
I believe Walmart bikes have gotten a lot worse in the past couple years. Walmart in general has deteriorated since Sam died.

[KSH]

So lastnight running hubby and I decided to take a field trip to the local Wal Mart to check out what our "big box competition" looks like.
I had about 5 people come by the store looking for bikes yesterday- despite the fact that I'm not even OPEN- and a couple of them mentioned having been to wal mart and target.
So I figured that to be able to counter the wal mart low price point I really needed to KNOW what they had.
HOLY MOLY do they have some poorly built bikes. First of all the wheels looked like they were about as strong as tin cans on the cruisers. And then Tony noticed that some of the brake cables were not installed correctly on some of the mtn bikes with disc brakes. But the kicker was the comfort bike that had it's suspension fork mounted BACKWARDS!!! Yes, completely backwards!!
That just shows you that the people putting those things together have NO CLUE what they are doing.
Tony's mechanic eye also noted some other potential safety issues. It was actually kinda scary. I mean people that don't know better are going to be purchasing these bikes- and often times for their kids- and they are putting themselves/children at risk. Part of me wanted to grab the manager and show him the glaring safety issues, but in the end I just walked out of there totally disgusted.
I already kind of had my spiel down to combat the "but wal mart is 200-300 cheaper", but now I REALLY have it down! And really, they aren't THAT much cheaper! Our low end Jamis mtn bike is only 100.00 more. I think the cruisers are the ones that are much cheaper. They were 89.00, ours are around 300.

But what I explained to the guy yesterday is this.
When you buy a bike from a big box retailer, once it's home- you are on your own. There is no one to take it to there when the cables stretch and it needs adjusting, or you have questions about it, or problems.
When you buy a bike from a bike shop you are not only getting a bike that's mechanically superior, but when you need to come in for adjustments, we take care of you. We offer free adjustments for life when you buy the bike from us. Yes you will have to pay for things such as new chains, or parts that wear out. But when you just need the brakes or derralliuers adjusted, we will take care of it for you. Yes, we will work on the wal mart bikes, but it will cost you. So in the end you may actually end up spending MORE than you would if you had bought from a bike shop.
Also a bike from a bike shop has been assembled by a professional mechanic. Most big box retailers hire people to build their bikes who have no prefessional bike mechanic experience. If they DID they would be working in a bike shop. So there can be big safety issues with the build of these bikes. I used to work for wal mart, and I remember our manager paying a few medical bills for folks who ended up in the emergency room because of the shoddy build on their bikes (yes this is a true story.).
And lastly, you really do get what you pay for price wise. These bikes shift better, are generally much lighter, and will be much more fun to ride. If I put you on a wal mart bike, and then on one of these Felts you would instantly know what I'm talking about.

So yeah, that was my spiel. And the guy agreed. In fact he was ready to buy a Felt Z100.... But I'm not OPEN yet because the landlord didn't do all the things the fire dept. asked him to do! Arrggghhhh!!

Ok, so would it be really bad of you to buy a WalMart bike... have them assemble it... and then display it in your store. You could also have people test ride one of those bikes and then test ride one of your bikes.

Now, you wouldn't have to TELL people WHERE the bike came from... but having the facts in their face would be a great way to sell one of your bikes.

[Tuckervill]

I have to say my son bought a WM bike with his own money when he was 6 ($40). A 20" bike, he still rides it (he's 14) to the pool in the summer. It has held up fine, especially for the way it's been treated. It's the bike that stays out in the rain when he forgets it. It's the one he leaves in the front yard when he goes to the neighbor kid's house, etc. He treats his mountain and road bikes like gold, though. I'd much rather he have a bike to neglect like that one, than have his expensive bikes stolen or misused in his youthful carelessness. Just having that bike has been a good learning experience for him.

What's funny is he's ridden it since he was 6 and the seat has never been raised!

Karen

[Grog]

I'm with Mr. Silver. Focus on what YOU have to offer: bikes that are guaranteed to be properly assembled, customer care and service, good tips, etc.

I also find it dubious when a store operator takes too much time and energy criticizing the competition.

[Flybye]

I believe Walmart bikes have gotten a lot worse in the past couple years. Walmart in general has deteriorated since Sam died.

That's funny that you should mention that because I was thinking the same thing last night as I was TRYING to sleep :o

I don't think that we can blame Wal-Mart for the deteriorating bikes, just the manufacturers - Next, Huffy, etc. for cutting costs on the bikes they produce.

Are any of the second rate brands sold off-shoots of bigger companies - for example, does Trek also mfgr. brand X??

Another thing that really blows me out of the water is that a company that wants a reputation as being quality like Shimano would allow low end bikes to have their components. I guess it is all about the buck for them, too.

[Mr. SR500]

I'm with Mr. Silver. Focus on what YOU have to offer: bikes that are guaranteed to be properly assembled, customer care and service, good tips, etc.

I also find it dubious when a store operator takes too much time and energy criticizing the competition.

+1, also +1 on the Sam comment above (I sure he is rolling over...)

[Eden]

+1, also +1 on the Sam comment above (I sure he is rolling over...)

I'm sure!

I refuse to shop at Wal-Mart, I think the way they are running the business is wrong on so many levels.... but I also live in a large city where I have plenty of options.

I do however remember when Wal-Mart first opened and there were many large signs proclaiming "Proudly made in the USA", so sad that the company did not continue with its founder's philosophies.

[Aggie_Ama]

I agree with the statements that you cannot change people's minds. I have a good friend who wanted to take up cycling leisurely. She only wanted to spend around $100 so the local bike shop was out. I told her I would help her search Craiglist because we could find something for $100. I found a practically new hardtail for $200, it retailed for close to $600. She went to Academy and spent $59 on a bike and was excited. It hasn't broken yet and I hope it doesn't but I can't imagine the durability of a $59 bike.

She is a person who is good at finding a bargain but this is one case where she doesn't know enough to find value.

[Tuckervill]

Another thing that really blows me out of the water is that a company that wants a reputation as being quality like Shimano would allow low end bikes to have their components. I guess it is all about the buck for them, too.

Shimano makes all kinds of things in Wal-Mart, like fishing reels and rods, etc. They're a for-profit company, so I imagine they're trying to get into every market segment they can.

Karen

[Mr. Bloom]

Walmart in general has deteriorated since Sam died.

Funny thing happened when Sam died...real estate in Bentonville boomed. Since Sam lived in the same ranch house and drove the same old truck, none of the Wal-Mart mgmt felt that they could live in a manner than their accumulated wealth could support...since Sam would view it negatively.

So, when Sam died, it triggered a building boom of huge mansions on newly built golf courses. It was amazing to see!

Tuckervill, would you agree?

[Beane]

.... but I also live in a large city where I have plenty of options.



I think this is the key. Often Wal-Marts ( aka Mall Warts) are in rural/suburban areas where running errands could require lots of relatively long drives to multiple small shops.. people like to get all their junk in one place. (obviously this is in addition to generally finding lower prices at MW rather than at smaller locally owned shops).

[Eden]

I think this is the key. Often Wal-Marts ( aka Mall Warts) are in rural/suburban areas where running errands could require lots of relatively long drives to multiple small shops.. people like to get all their junk in one place. (obviously this is in addition to generally finding lower prices at MW rather than at smaller locally owned shops).

It's almost funny -I can walk to most of the shops I need to in my neighborhood, but I would actually have to drive a relatively far distance to get to a Wal-Mart here... I just realized that there are none in the Seattle city limits and I live pretty much smack in the middle of the city.

What a Wal-Mart can do to a small town is pretty depressing. Sure in the short run there's all this cheap stuff, but in the long run it can ruin a small town's business district and disrupt the economy pretty badly. They even use ugly tactics to keep from paying all of the property and other business taxes that they use as bait to get into some of those small communities. (like moving the whole store to just outside the city limits right before the tax breaks they were given are over)

To bring this a tiny bit more back to the original topic - they aren't the only ones guilty of poor bike assembly. Someone over at the other forum posted an actual photo from one of those online (or maybe E-bay?) bike shops selling cheap bikes. It was a road bike and it too had the fork installed backwards.

[Tuckervill]

Funny thing happened when Sam died...real estate in Bentonville boomed. Since Sam lived in the same ranch house and drove the same old truck, none of the Wal-Mart mgmt felt that they could live in a manner than their accumulated wealth could support...since Sam would view it negatively.

So, when Sam died, it triggered a building boom of huge mansions on newly built golf courses. It was amazing to see!

Tuckervill, would you agree?

Nah, I'm thinking that's giving 'Ol Sam's positive regard a little too much power. He died in 1992, which happens to coincide with a boom in the stock market. Remember there is more than just Wal-Mart up here. Tyson, JB Hunt, Jones Truck Lines, and all the millionaires that were made by getting in on the ground floor of those companies before they went public. There are a number of lesser players in the real estate biz, too, (Lindsey) who drive the massive development.

Same thing was happening in Memphis in the '90s...

Bentonville/Rogers is still booming, but it's more along the retail segment. We've had a number of big developers get overextended around here, though. Building has slowed, but people are still optimistic.

Karen

[kat_h]

I deal with Walmart toys practically every day. I teach guitar for a living and expecially at this time of year there's a lot of new kids starting up because somebody bought them a guitar for Christmas. Unfortunately Santa shopped at Walmart and just got them a toy guitar. The parents always say "Well, she can start on this and we'll get her something better if she sticks with it." That's usually the point where I explain that first of all she won't stick with it because it's unplayable - not just hard to play but the frets are spaced incorrectly so it's not possible to play in tune, and then point out that they could have bought a real guitar (not a good one, but at least a real one) for $50 at a music store and it would have a warranty with it.

Whenever parents talk to me before buying a guitar I simply say that the Walmart/Radio-Shack/Giant Tiger guitars are just toys, not guitars, and they seem to understand that.

[Eden]

Whenever parents talk to me before buying a guitar I simply say that the Walmart/Radio-Shack/Giant Tiger guitars are just toys, not guitars, and they seem to understand that.

Unfortunately most people already view bicycles as toys.