Technology Management Career Paths

[Triskeliongirl]

Hey guys, I know some of you work in the business world. I am a scientist and professor, so know very little of these matters. My son just completed his first semester at MIT. He is doing very well, and has to pick a major very soon (he entered with a lot of AP credit). His initial plan was to do course 6, Computer Science and Electrical Engineering, and then take some business courses as electives, but the curriculum is too full to do that. Now he is considering a double major in Management Science (http://mitsloan.mit.edu/undergrad/) and Math. Which do you think prepares him best for a career that involves managing technology. I thought course 6 would be better, so he would get a deeper understanding of the stuff he plans to one day manage (and give him more options later if he decides he'd rather develop new technology vs managing it, but maybe that's just my wish for him), but I really know nothing about any of this. He is also interested in finance, perhaps working for a big NYC bank, and not so interested in writing code all day, but he is only 18 years old, so these are hard decisions. To buy some time he is going to take lots of math and physics this next semester, which he needs for either major, and he is applying for a summer internship at microsoft (which by the way gives interns a choice of $ towards a bike or car rental, how cool is that?). Advice wanted from sage business types (Mr. Silver, are you out there?).

[SheFly]

Trisk - I have worked in the high-tech industry for way too many years now, and am currently working at HP (where I have been for 6 years).

These are definitely difficult choices for your son. Let me provide you with some insight (this from an English major who works as a Program Manager in Learning & Development, so take it with a grain of salt ;)). When companies like HP are hiring into a technical organization, they are going to favor the computer science/electrical engineering graduate. That said, however, the resulting beginning career is likely to involve coding, testing or customer support.

On the flip side, not all careers in high-tech require the tenicla background (take me, for instance!). There are many facets to a large organization - including finance, marketing (which means you need to have a good understanding of the technology, but not be a programmer), project management, etc. If he is interested in any of these types of area, I would say that the management courses might suit him better.

I used to teach technical support engineers how to manage their SQL Servers across the enterprise - this required pretty technical skills that I learned in my job - no school background at all. Now, I focus much more on project management and organizational effectiveness, so many of my technical skills have waned.

Another example - my DH is a prinicple software engineer at IBM. His degree is in graphic arts. No computer science and no engineering. He did, however, start out in his career in a completely different area (order processing), and moved his way up.

I guess that my point is that he shoud do what interests him. He will end up in a position after graduation, and still have MANY opportunities to learn and grow in his career.

SheFly

[RoadRaven]

Hey there Triske, I don't have a reply or answer to your specific question (though I will watch this thread with interest as my nearly 17 will probably head in a similar direction when he finishes high School).

However, I did want to say - how cool that Microsoft offer the bike option! I am not a big fan of huge bueinesses or monopolies per se, but this gets a round of applause from me.
:) Yay Microsoft

[alpinerabbit]

My "not really" brother in law has a Ph.D. in business&computer science. He now wishes to have put more emphasis on the business part as it would help him get a more interesting job at the bank he works for.

Tough choice.

From the belly, I think he should choose what he excels in, not drudge through what he thinks is better for the future... Lots of doors open up with a good grade record, then internships or a first job can be a step up.

[Thorn]

Alpine has it...he should choose what he excels in not try to second guess the future. I used to give a talk at the local university of the "so, you want to be a software engineer when you graduate"-type. At one point, I sent a survey to my company to ask them what college course turned out to be the most useful to them in their jobs. To anyone with more than 10 years in the field, the course was one of the "garbage courses"--psych, philosophy, comparative religions, etc. The only time a technical course showed up in the response was if the employee was less than a couple years in the job.

As many have stated in the thread, the road into IT management has many on-ramps. The US is not graduating enough of the "official degrees" so those on-ramps will still exist.

That said, it is hard not to have him lean technical because the opportunities are greater, but, if his heart really lies in finance....the math and management makes a lot of sense.

[RoadRaven]

From the belly, I think he should choose what he excels in, not drudge through what he thinks is better for the future... Lots of doors open up with a good grade record, then internships or a first job can be a step up.

Yes. I absolutely agree.

"They" say: If you do something you love for work, you will never have to work a day in your life.

He needs to be happy in his job, and not choose training for expedience. passion is the key...

[Triskeliongirl]

What I told him is to identify his 'dream job' and then talk to MIT alum that have that job (he has a good alum network through his fraternity) and ask their advice on how to best prepare for it. However, it is still hard for an 18 year old BOY, yes he is a boy, to know what that dream job is. He is great at math and physics, so all the coursework in either major is easy for him, so that's not the issue.

I guess the problem is closing doors. It sounds like course 6 keeps more doors open (although realize at MIT all students end up with significant technical training regardless of major) and in my mind takes better advantage of being at MIT, afterall it is a technical institute, and he can always aquire business training later, but that does take longer and he is also interested in getting into the world of work sooner rather than later. If he gets the microsoft internship I think that will help a lot for him to see the world of work first hand. If he doesn't he has a guaranteed UROP (research) on campus for the summer, so either way he'll get some real world work experience. He said the problem is if he wants the microsoft internship he needs to say he is a course 6 major while if he wants an internship at a NYC bank he needs to say he is a management science major, and he just isn't sure yet.

Our kids face tough decisions. Our daughter is majoring in neuroscience at Wellesley, but for her its deciding between a research career and medicine. At one point she decided on research and didn't want to finish her pre-med requirements, but we encouraged her to keep options open so she did take the courses, and now she is considering psychiatry so it is good to not close doors, at least at the tender age of 18 or 19.

Please keep posting, I look forward to more feedback. I guess what I am really looking for is not which major gets you hired, my impression is a bright kid graduating from MIT with good grades won't have a hard time getting a job upon graduation, its what will prepare him best to excel in that job.

[bmccasland]

My brother did his Masters and PhD at MIT. I remember when he was looking for engineering schools, they suggested he go get his Bachelor's somewhere else, then come to them for advanced work. The man is literally a rock scientist - something about guidance systems, and now a 2 star general in the military.

Early career you'd be working on projects (technical knowledge), but later on, may be doing management - and I think that depends on one's temperament, organizational skills, and such. Which is pretty much true no matter what your field is (I haven't pulled a fish seine net in 5 years).

So I'd go with majoring in what he enjoys, with some goal towards the future. And getting the BS may only be the first step. Some agencies are looking for advanced degrees. But if he doesn't like his major, the courses and people involved, then he'll really need to rethink things. I was told to join the student chapter of the professional organization - if I didn't like the people now, I'm not going to like them later - ie these are the people you'll be working with down the road.

[GLC1968]

I have two real-life examples for you...both of these are women at my company (hi tech) who both happen to be 30 years old.

One is a friend of mine from school. She completed a BSEE with honors and had a minor in business. She also has excellent communication skills which is a feature poorly lacking in many EE's. This gave her an advantage and when she graduated, she had multiple jobs to pick from while her classmates had none. She came to this company as a design engineer and then moved into technical sales. She then completed her MBA and is now a program manager in our advance development group (a VERY good place to be).

The second is another friend of mine. She graduated with a BS in business. Got a job right out of school (also has excellent communication skills) at another company in a planning/marketing role. She came to my company in a similiar position and worked as a liason for some of our outsources. She also wanted to get into program management and at my company, they do not hire program or project managers without a technical degree. This woman had to sell her self hard to get the position and even then, they are starting her out with some very simple (and low visability) projects. She's doing well and learning fast, but was definitely held back by her lack of technical background even though many of us who have one rarely use it anyway.

From my experience, if you want to truly succeed in high tech, having a technical degree will make life much, much easier.


Of course, there is definitely something to be said for choosing to do what interests you the most. Had I done that myself, I wouldn't have had to go back to school at 29 to get another two degrees to do what I should have done at 18. ;)

[Crankin]

For what it is worth, I can relate my husband's experience. When he went back to school to finish his B.S., he had 5 years experience in owning his own business and sales. He had been admitted to MIT, but was way too immature to go. He went to Penn State for a couple of years, not doing too well...
So, when he went to transfer to ASU, he wanted to major in quantitative business analysis. The advisor told him he would never make it, married, a baby, etc. So he majored in computer information systems. It's a business degree. He did take a lot of programming courses (this was in the eighties) and got a really good job with Anderson Consulting right out of school. After that, he worked as an applications engineer (technical sales support) for Wang Labs and several start ups. He is now the director of 150 engineers who are application engineers at the Mathworks. They all have master's and Phd's. He says he is the least educated one there, but he has communication and people skills. So I guess the message is, take those business courses!

[Dianyla]

If I wanted to pursue a career in technical management, I would first focus on acquiring harder technical skills during undergrad and then adding business on later (say, as an MBA). The most successful tech managers I've met in my career did a 4-5 year stint as an engineer before moving up into management. Those who move straight into management out of school (usually via the program mgmt route) often seem to lack a deeper understanding of how the nuts and bolts really work. This can be something of a handicap, though not necessarily.

That being said, watch out for only doing technical education, with no business or finance on top. That makes you a prime candidate for getting your job outsourced to another continent. And, uh... that's all I'm gonna say about that. :rolleyes:

My background, if it matters to you: Dropped out of "pre-med take 1" and joined the dotcom wave, worked my way up into software engineering on job experience alone. After 9 years of working in IT for a healthcare system, now I'm resuming the pursuit of my undergrad degree for "pre-med take 2". Do as I say, not as I do? Nontraditional in so many ways.

[Mr. Bloom]

These are all very good responses. The one's I connect with most are the last two from Dianyla and Robyn. However, my response may be a bit "out there"...(perhaps influenced by an 18 hr day at the office)...ohhh, this response is going to be too long...

First, what I'd tell your son is that the person who has options to choose from is to be envied...he (and you) may agonize over the choices, but having choices to make is a VERY good thing. I agree that the fraternity alumni network can be very helpful.

Second, understand that in some ways, I'm not qualified to offer advice...I have a BS in Corporate Finance. While my degree got me my first job, my career was built on an ability to influence and lead people...I understand technology in application, but not design...and I don't have advanced math skills...

Third, in guiding him, he needs to know where his natural aptitudes are in some key areas. An important consideration I see has to do with the level of natural people skills that you see your son as having. My recollection from a "proud mama" post that you made once is this kid is not only bright, but has a lot of personality as well. If this is true, I'd focus on a curriculum that gets him to one of the big consulting shops (accenture, McKenzie, BCG, etc) - this will likely look like heavy tech with basic business and an MBA later.

The reason I suggest this is that these consulting shops work their folks like mad, pay them well, expose them to a broad experience base, but most importantly develop them into leaders (which is where the personality comes in, if that's his disposition). This experience can open any door in the world to him...A smart person who can lead...hmmm...that's a hot commodity!

When you use the phase "Managing Technology", I kinda bristle...no one manages technology...they actually manage PEOPLE who do technical things :) An important distinction to me...that's where the ability to lead and inspire comes in...MIT won't give him that - his natural ability and experience will. MIT gives him the understanding of the technology but success comes from something else:)

Another point to make: There's nothing magic about business. It's really just accounting. Everything else comes from that foundation. It's boring, it's basic (did you know Silver is a retired CPA?) ...but it's the language of business. To me, Finance is really an outgrowth of math and statistics spoken in the language of accounting. SO, he's got the math...maybe he just needs some basic accounting in his curriculum along with all the technical stuff.

So, as I ramble, what am I saying:
- Undergrad orientation in technical disciplines with a splash of accounting - enough to "learn the language". Tell him to start reading the Harvard Business Review...it'll peak his interest in stuff
- Expect an MBA...it's WELL suited for someone with a science or liberal arts degree
- take the wide path, not the narrow one...to me, that's consulting.

Oh, and unless it's investment banking, I'd discourage him away from a big NYC bank...it's still a consolidating industry and even the largest ones are vulnerable these days...

Hope I didn't ramble too much...

[shootingstar]

Mr. Silver's comment that big international firms like Accenture provide broad experience by..working truly hard to the firm's standard (of course, one might burn out later). I was at PricewaterhouseCoopers for several years.

It helps to have several courses in technical/applied sciences to "speak" the language of a vertical industry sector. But do not forget the arts and social sciences which will give one broader understanding of people and the contexts in which they operate.

However you know, any young person doesn't well...really want their parents determining their study / career path. Your son should pursue subjects that he is passionate about with a sprinkling of courses to give him a practical edge. He may instinctively know best himself what he has been naturally gifted with.

My partner has a undergraduate university degree in civil engineering. He only did real technical engineering during the first 3 years of his career. Then he was placed in business analyst, then management roles for the duration of his career. Along the way he got his MBA and loved it. It tooks him 7 years part-time at night. He couldn't see himself ground in just doing engineering calculations/work. He worked for an oil firm for all these jobs..for 30 years.

His civil engineering degree....also has been useful for cycling advocacy..to deal the technical mindset of municipal engineering departments and find ways to negotiate better options for cycling.

His MBA...has helped loads..even now...he has to help advise his brother on acquiring a U.S. national business..so reading those balance sheets is important...

[Triskeliongirl]

Thanks for all the wise responses. He does have good people skills, he is a good leader, but then he is also very good in math and science, hence his interest in business and managment. I will pass your comments on to him.

Of course this is his decision, but he does value our input, and since we know so little about the business world its very helpful to get insights from this group. In the end, he will have to weigh all the information he gets, I am just doing what I can to contribute to the information pool.

[Triskeliongirl]

One more question, Mr. Silver, when you talk about undergrad training in a technical discipline, does math qualify? As I said, one option he is considering is a DUAL major of management science and math. The problem with the computer science and electrical engineering (CSEE) major is that the course requirements are so numerous that it is very hard to fit any business courses in. He is taking courses in entrepeneurship, business plan writing, and C+++ over the wintersession (they have a month of short intense courses between semesters), but there is very little time for business courses during the regular academic year with the CSEE major. I would imagine the applied math major would let him be one of those people that trys to predict market activity, etc.

[Mr. Bloom]

I should have said a science/math discipline

While I don't know what's in vogue these days among recruiters, in my mind, math is great - particularly if it allows him to have a broader curriculum...it also opens the route to actuarial science - which may be another route to pursue.

I'm in banking...do the best bankers have Corporate Finance degrees? Nope, they were engineers...

[Triskeliongirl]

Once again, thanks for all the advice. It was very helpful. At this point, he planned a curriculum for the spring semester that still buys him another semester to decide by taking a bunch of math courses he needs for both options. He will also do either a summer internship or UROP (on campus research), and talk to frat alum and recruiters over the next semester to help him choose between the following two options for how he wants to spend his undergraduate years:

1. B.S. in Mathematics with Computer Science and B.S. in Management Science (double major).

or

2. B.S. in Electrical Engineering and Computer Science

[alpinerabbit]

McKinsey, BCG et all kill souls. Only thing I can say about them.

[Triskeliongirl]

I should add one thing that this thread got him thinking about is the math with computer science major. Before he was only thinking about the applied math major, and he thought to get computer science training he needed to do the electrical engineering and computer science major, but the math with computer science option was buried deep within the math depts. webpages.

The managerial science curriculum is so math intensive its relatively easy to double it with a math major. The math with computer science major is just a more structured version of the applied math major. But, the electrical engineering and computer science major has so many requirements its hard to combine it even with a minor in managerial sciences.

I am glad now that both options he is considering are technical. Yes, its his life but its our money. He turned down a lot of scholarships, even to Harvard, because it was important to him to study at a technical institute, so I do feel he should follow through and get that technical training he wanted for so many years. MIT had been his dream school for so long, so much of what he achieved in high school was targeted at getting into MIT. But now that he is there its funny how he has become less interested in engineering. As a boy, his floor would be covered with circuit boards, always building stuff, even built a beowulf supercomputer that we are now using in our labs to solve protein structures with. I think what happened is that as he matured he found that he really likes and is good at working with people, and he is at a point in his life where relationships are very important. But at this point I think its all good, whichever path he chooses will take him to good places, so again thanks for all your comments!

[Mr. Bloom]

As a boy, his floor would be covered with circuit boards, always building stuff,

Hmmm, me too! Wonder where I went wrong:confused::eek: