Just the Frame or the Whole Shebang?

[three]

I have decided to spend a pretty chunk of change on a new bike. Actually, my first 'real' road bike ever. Despite the amount that I can afford, I would like to keep it as low as possible and get the best deal I can.

My former encyclopedia of cycling (see cycling for healing post) was obsessed with various websites, "bike swap" meets, and other means of discounted gear. He had some nice bikes (9 in his stable), did all his own maintenance, and knew all the lingo you guys could spout off and lose me on.

Now, having seen what he did and all the money he saved - I am wondering this:

Do I buy the road bike all built up with snazzy components new and shiny? Do I look for a snazzy bike that's maybe a bit used (and will I even have any luck with that since I'd be looking for a Shorty McShort frame)?

Or, do I just buy the frame...sans components...and make use of all those techniques I saw him use & get the components myself? Can I really save money that way...or will all the shipping costs even it out?

I want a nice bike, but in all reality - I should probably be putting the money towards something else...I'm splurging here - so, I'd like to be as fiscally shrewd as possible. My only bike for real cycling is my Surly Cross-Check - and it's not something I feel comfortable using for the duathlons/centuries that I want to be doing in the future.

Thanks in advance for any advice from all of you sage cyclists.

[KnottedYet]

What don't you like about the Cross Check?

(I was going to recommend you look into Surly bikes as I read your post...:D)

Many of us have Surlys of various makes, or have test ridden them, or covet them, or know someone who has one, or are familiar with them in some way. If you can tell us what makes you feel the CC won't work for you for duathlons or centuries, that will give us a lot more info.

[three]

Well, as you know - I'm a newbie. I went on plenty of rides with the ex and my longest distance was close to 50 miles - and never anything competitive or trying to be fast. We got my Cross-Check off eBay (he said it would be the perfect bike for me). It has great components and I do love that bike. But, when doing the duathlon this past fall...I found myself wishing on every hill, heck...on the way down from the hills and on the flat sections...that my bike was lighter. It's a great bike, but when I compare weight to snazzy road bikes...I start wondering about what a difference that could make. On the Surly, my avg speed on leisure outdoor rides was usually 16-20 mph. I figure if I actually get in shape, train, and try to go faster - I have some potential (maybe not a ton, but some). So...wouldn't it be wise to have a bike that will help me do that?

Am I wrong?

Plus, if I do this - I can then get knobbies on my Surly and take it into the woods/use it in the winter.

[KnottedYet]

Ah, so it's the weight of the Surly that's causing you trouble.

I'm no help on the weight info. All three of my bikes each weigh at least 20 lbs. (Surly CC, Waterford X-12, Kona Smoke) There are plenty of folks on here who can point you toward some lighter bikes. Some of those carbon bikes are sleek and gorgeous!

Edit: How do you like the geometry? Does it feel lively and responsive to you? Do you feel like you could ride it for hours if it only weighed less? If you like cyclocross geometry that's another piece of info. If the CC feels squirrelly sometimes, and like you have to work hard to keep it on track, you might prefer to test ride some bikes with touring geometry. If it feels too stable, and sludgy, and slow to respond, you might be happier trying some bikes with more racing geometry.

On the expense front: at one point I wanted to buy a frame and build up a bike, but the expense was too much. One wrench told me I'd be better off buying the frame I wanted AND buying an entire bike with the components I liked, then switching them over. He said that was the only way to be cost effective with components. bummer.

[RoadRaven]

Ummm... easy...

The frame AND the whole shebang.

Then you have a bike to ride immmediately, and the fun of building exactly what you want.

Road - you-can't-have-too'many-bicycles -Raven

[7rider]

If you would require a "Shorty McShort" frame and like to race and have a decent hunk of change to put down on a bike....why not go custom? You would get a frame that fits you properly and does what you want it to do (Stiff? Comfort? Both!)
There are many custom frame makers out there who would be great for you. I'm rather partial to Seven (http://www.sevencycles.com/home.php)myself - a great maker of steel, titanium, and carbon frames known for outstanding bikes and excellent customer service.

[Thorn]

Oooohhh...what a wonderful place to be....Not that I can offer much advice. Personally, I'm not wrench enough or have enough time so I went with the bike plus components plus let the local bike shop build it for me route.

Like Regina, I went custom so that I have a bike that fits *me*. The resale on the bike will never exist (except to strip components), but that doesn't matter.

But, a thing to consider if you are riding a small bike....the weight savings you'll get on a frame isn't going to be that significant because, well, you don't have a lot of frame. Thus, you might place a heavier "weight" on things like geometry and ride feel (e.g., do you want stiff and snappy? or comfy for long rides).

Oh, and I second Knotted's comment about cheap parts. I built up a Surly for winter riding this year. The shop got lucky with some great year-end closeouts, but the bike swap was considered.

[KnottedYet]

Who was building up the carbon bike frame a few months ago? Anybody have the link to her thread? I'm computer illiterate and not finding it...:rolleyes:

Eden races on Shorty-McShort frames. Her rain bike is a lovely TiCycles Hyak.

Edit: and Trek420 doesn't race, but she's got a short custom Mondonico which is just insanely light (lugged steel)

Can't find a good link for Mondonico, but here's this: http://www.smartcycles.com/about_mondonico.htm

[Trek420]

Eden races on Shorty-McShort frames.

I Googled and I can't find any Shory-McShort frames. Who sells them? :confused:;):rolleyes:

[Pedal Wench]

I've gone both ways -- build up a frame with the components I want, and bought complete bikes. Hands down, buying a complete bike is the cheaper option. You just can't beat the price that manufacturers can get their components for.

That said, I like getting to pick and choose, oh - and if you find a complete bike, but you'll need to swap out a bunch of things to get it to fit, the scale swings back the other way -- it would be easier to start from scratch.

[ehirsch83]

I have bought just a frame and built it up(the litespeed this past summer) and I have also bought full bikes(my first bike and the new tarmac that is on the way). I can tell you that it is going to be cheaper to buy the full bike. And at your level, you will probably be very happy with all stock components in your price range. This past summer I had the opportunity to EP everything, so I opted to build up the bike to my exact specifications, because they didn't sell the litespeed with Rival and there were some things I didn't like on the stock bike(the fork,etc.) But it definitaly cost me more then if I was to have bought the bike complete.

I am now buying a stock Tarmac and there are only 2 things I eventually want to change out on it- the handlebars being the main one(from aluminum to carbon) but that is still going to be cheaper then if I had pieced the bike together.


So I say go test ride a bunch of complete bikes, see if you find something you fall in love with- I bet you will!!

[Thorn]

Who was building up the carbon bike frame a few months ago? Anybody have the link to her thread?

This one?
http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=19980

[KnottedYet]

Yes! Thorn, you are my hero! Thank you!:D

[mimitabby]

I also ride a "light" steel bike which comes in over 20 pounds and under 25.
Unless you throw away your waterbottles and cut off your hair, i'm not sure the 5 less pounds a lighter frame buys you is going to help THAT much. What helps is strengthening your legs.

I had a frame made for me (vertically challenged), and while I was waiting I bought parts - some on sale, some from a swap meet, and some for full price.
Then i had a pro assemble it.

[Mr. SR500]

A complete bike is almost always a better deal, when you consider wheels and components. If you have some parts, or want very specific parts then a frame set makes more sense. But without bike building experience, a complete bike is by far a better choice. Maybe even for only a few dollars more then the frame set.

[smilingcat]

Yes it was me who built up a bike from pieces. You can do it cheaper by going on e-bay. But you REALLY REALLY have to know what you are doing. And you REALLY REALLY have to know the new prices of everything from tires to shifter and brake cables to bar tape, to wheels handlebars... So I wouldn't recommend this approach (unless you are like me and been working and building bikes for like last 20-30 years) and you've built up bikes before. You also need some special tools.

My k2 mod6 uses SRAM FORCE groupo. Cost of the completed bike is around $1700. k2 frame cost me $200.00 so you can see where the money is going. not the frame.
I saw a k2 mod6 wih lesser groupo with steep discount (50% off) for $1599.

My TT bike Specialized S-works Transition Pro cost me about $2200. also with SRAM FORCE groupo. again the frame cost me less than 1/3 of the total cost. MSRP from Specialized was $4,400 or there abouts.

Buying the groupo at retail is very expensive. Getting the groupo on a completed bike will cost you half as much. but then you have to deal with the frame, seat, handlbar, wheels etc.

Buy a complete bike is much better way for you. Sightly used with less than 1000 miles, no crash, not being ridden in the rain bike is what you should look for on e-bay. Oh and never raced or never used in tri-athalons.

smilingcat

[sundial]

I have to agree with everyone that buying a fully loaded bike is more cost effective than building a bike.

I noticed your speed is really pretty good and you are in the early stages of your training. As you cycle more, you'll build your strength and speed and you can make any bike zoom.

When I labored over choosing my new bike this past year, many TE'ers told me it's not what you ride, it's what's sitting on the bike that makes it fast. With that being said, I did get decent speeds on my 21 lb. aluminum Sequoia but went with a new carbon fiber 17# Roubaix. It seemed to climb hills easier, but I was also nearing the end of my cycling season, when I was conditioned for hills. And interestingly enough, the only difference I can tell between the 2 bikes in terms of weight is during acceleration. The lighter frame of the Roubaix is very responsive.

If you are interested in a lightweight steel bike, say 14-15#, R+E Cycles can custom build one. There are other custom builders as well but this one came to mind.

www.rodcycle.com

Oh, Knot and I had several discussion of steel vs. carbon fiber. I would have bought steel if there had been a steel bike for me to even test ride. Steel is not popular in Arkansas.

[mimitabby]

before i had my custom bike made, I bought a nice Bianchi on Ebay.
it was "my size" but unfortunately It cost hundreds of dollars in swapping parts and adjustments to make it a better ride for me, so I ended up getting a custom bike anyway; because the Bianchi was never just right.

[sundial]

Mimi, did you see my friend's '84 Bianchi?

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=19471&highlight=Bianchi+Celeste+green

He's still riding it with all the original equipment.

[JmcG]

I have also done both ways - bought my bike stock and built up my own bike. For price, I agree with everyone that it'll be cheaper to buy a bike with all the components already on - and at the bike shop if you see a bike you like, but maybe they've cheaped out on the front derailleur, ask if they'll switch up for you for a small $$.

Building up a bike is not as easy as it sounds. You have to know every detail of every single component that you want, at the sizes and lengths that you want. Do you know what length stem you'd want? What ratio gearing you'd want? Etc, etc. If so, great and it's fun to pick what groupo set you want. But if you're not sure and don't have much experience, it can be really frustrating and time consuming and really doesn't come out cheaper. And as said above, you need special tools (unless you're planning on having your LBS put it all together for you). The only reason I built up my own bike was b/c I won a new TT frame and fork and so had to do the rest on my own. If I had to choose again, I'd do the same knowing what I know now. But early on in my riding/wrenching experience I would have been really intimidated to build up my own bike not knowing what fits me right or what groupo I'd really be happy with.

But either choice you make, I'm sure you'll be happy with the outcome. Be sure to post pics of your final product! Good luck!

[mimitabby]

Mimi, did you see my friend's '84 Bianchi?

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=19471&highlight=Bianchi+Celeste+green

He's still riding it with all the original equipment.

It's BEAUTIFUL! Yes, I did and I posted on that thread already


and if you hire someone to build you a frame, their shop will help you with the other things, the right sized pieces like stems and stuff.

[tulip]

I've found that proper (amazing) fit has made more of a difference than frame weight, within reason of course. If your Surly fits you well, you can get lighter wheels for it and that would be a very economical way to go in the short run. That way, you could save up for a Luna or something. I got my Luna on sale. It was pre-built, and I happened to be out in New Mexico so I went to see it. Margo measured me up and it turned out that the bike was so close to what a custom frame would be for me, that I bought it. It's wonderful. It's not 16 lbs or anything (it's 18 without the pedals, but I need pedals and two waterbottles, a computer and a bell, so it probably about 22lbs now).

My advice would be to max out your fitness on the Surly (with lighter wheels) while you save for something really nice for later in the year or next year. If budget was not an issue, then I'd say go custom now.