650 vs 700 tires

[caligurl]

ok.... so when i got my current bike... i was adament that i wanted 700 tires cuz i figured it was easier to find tires.. if i had a blowout and was riding with the guys... i could borrow a tire... tubes could be shared... etc...

now as i research more... i think when i do get my next, hopefully custom, bike... since i'm a shortie.. it will probably be suggested that i get the smaller tires...

those of you that have them... what problems have you had? also what advantage (well.. i know it makes the overall fit of the bike better a lot of times!

i sat on a gorgeous orbea this weekend with the small tires... would have loved to have left the store with it! :D :rolleyes:

anyways.. i'm just continuing my research and asking for input!

[Adventure Girl]

Originally posted by caligurl
...i figured it was easier to find tires.. if i had a blowout and was riding with the guys... i could borrow a tire... tubes could be shared... etc...I don't know what you mean by "borrow a tire"?:confused: Is there someone you ride with who carries around an extra tire? Really?

My bike has 650's. I carry two tubes with me when I ride. I had 3 flats on one ride:mad:. But I was riding alone, so it wouldn't have mattered if I had 650's or 700's!;)

One down side I encountered because I have 650's was the cost of a spare wheel. I bought an extra rear wheel. I use that wheel with an old tire when I ride my trainer. I was going through rear tires really fast from riding my trainer so much. If I had a "standard" size wheel, my LBS would have given me an old wheel that they had hanging around. But since I needed a 650, I had to buy a new one.

By the way, I've never tried it, but I've heard that you can use a tube for a 700 on your 650's in an emergency. Anyone ever try that? If it would work, it would be better than walking!

[caligurl]

ya... my hubby actually borrowed a tire from someone on a ride he was on when he blew a tire! go figure! i know i don't carry one! (well.. i take my spare blue one to rides with me.. but it's in the car.. not on me or the bike.... so i don't really know why we bring it! :rolleyes:

hmmmmm... didn't think about the spare wheel... i actually already have a spare 700 for just that reason.. got it cheap from the LBS so i don't ruin my pro michelins.. put the other tire on for nasty, horrible, evil trainer riding (get the idea i don't like the trainer!)

[caligurl]

OH! do 650's make you any slower cuz they are smaller? (i'm slow enough already!)

[fasteryet]

this is a link from Sheldon Brown's bike shop:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/terry/

Which Wheel Size?
Like Terry, some other manufacturers like Trek® and Cannondale® make small bicycles using 26" wheels front and rear; but Terry also uses 24" in the front and 700C in the rear. Why?
This seems to be a muddled marketing decision rather than an elegant engineering solution on our competitors' parts. A 26" wheel offers some advantages, but not the way it's used in the frames we see from our competitors. Everyone has the same goal when making a smaller bicycle for the small rider: make the top tube short enough! If you use a 700C wheel on the front of a bicycle, you can only shorten the top tube so much (to about 53 cm) before the front wheel overlaps with the pedal, often called toe-clip overlap. A 26" road tire is about 2 cm smaller in radius than a 700C tire, so you can shorten the top tube just as much (to about 51 cm) before there is overlap. A 24" road tire is about 5 cm smaller in radius than a 700C tire, so the top tube can be shortened to about 48 cm with no problems.

We use 24" in the front on our smaller road bikes (48.3 cm and under) so we can have more latitude for good design. The answer to the next question explains this in more detail.


Top-Tube Length
Other manufacturers have fairly short top tubes on bikes with 26" and 700C front wheels. How is this possible?
It's possible because their designs are compromised. Ours are not. How do you make a bicycle with a top tube under 51 cm if you use a front wheel larger than 24" and you want to avoid toe clip overlap? There are a couple of ways to do this.

First, use a steeper seat angle (75+ degrees). The steeper this is, the shorter the top tube will be if nothing else changes. The problem with this? You will be too far forward of the pedals, unable to establish the proper relationship between your knee and the pedal spindle. You won't be as efficient a rider, and knee problems may result. You'll spend a lot of time wishing you could push back more on the saddle.

Second, use a shallower head angle (71-degrees) and more rake (6.5+cm). The problem here is that the bicycle will have rather sluggish handling.

Neither of these is a solution because it limits the design. Head angles, rake, and seat angles should lead a design not follow it. Head angle and rake are chosen to achieve the desired handling of the bicycle: is it for racing, touring, criteriums? Seat angle should be chosen to give the rider the best position on the bicycle.The 24" front wheel lets us build a bike that fits without compromise. It would be an insult to our customers to offer anything less.

Aren't 24" tires hard to find?
Not that we know of. They are widely distributed and we always keep a good stock here for dealers and consumers in need.

Won't I go slower with a small front wheel?
No. Even though the wheel turns more rapidly than a larger wheel, it has less mass, so its momentum is about the same.

[madisongrrl]

Tire size should be based on bike fit....

[Surlygirl]

Terry's new Isis comes with two 650 wheels I believe.

[massbikebabe]

Cali:

I saw this up close and personal and boy is she purty!!

http://www.orbea-usa.com/fly.aspx?menuid=4&layout=viewproduct&taxid=233


karen

[Veronica]

Karen,

I'm curious - what makes it pretty to you.

I find the various tube diameters a bit distracting. The Ultegra shifters look big and ugly. It's more appealing with the Campy. Why are the front and rear tires laced differently? It's a very compact frame which will make it a bit twitchy. The paint job is nice. :)

Veronica

[Surlygirl]

Hey Karen,
Where did you see the orbea? Was it at Bike Alley? I think I like those guys the best out of all the LBSs around here. I need to take my new carbon fork up there and have them put it on my little surly.
So how bout all this snow. 22 inches in Grafton.

[massbikebabe]

Veronica and Surly:

I saw this bike at Belmont Wheelworks...just visiting because Bike Alley is the place I love the most. The picture on the web does not do this baby justice. The pink is much more vibrant in person and the wheels are laced the same. V, I ride a compact frame becaue of my small stature, big attitude, and I don't find them to be twitchy at all. Also, you are right, the campy does look better than the Ultegra, but the Ultegra ain't horrible...the levers looked fine. If I go back that way I may test ride to give an honest opinion, but did she ever catch my eye.
Surly, my kids measured a snow drift at 52 inches but I think all and all we got about 30 or so here in Worcester. I am rebuilding my ole Terry and had Bike Alley re-lace one of my wheels...they did a marvelous job. They had a Surly single speed hangin up last time I was there...it was cool looking. I personally may buy the periwinkle Hardrock that seems to be lingering and waiting for me to buy it;)
karen

[Surlygirl]

Oh Karen,
I saw the Periwinkle Hardrock and drooled. Hubby said they also have a beautiful lavender Specialized Dolce I think. How did you like Belmont Wheelworks? Peter Mooney builds bikes there and I was considering having a custom done. Is the store worth the trip?

[caligurl]

i saw that pretty pink and blue orbea at a bike shop here in socal (cyclery USA in redlands)... the one they had built was durace. i didn't notice the different spoking... i don't like it now that i see it! but.... i did like the frame very much though! thought it was very pretty! i even got to sit on it! lol!

i didn't ask about a test ride but probably should have! when we get back down there... if it's still there i will! i kinda discounted it from my list of bikes cuz isn't it an aluminum frame?

i LOVE the look of the orbeas.. but would really want an orca if i got on (spoile brat!) but don't think an orca would fit me!

[massbikebabe]

Surly:

Belmont is like a dream come true of a shop, they have anything and everything you could possibly want. HOWEVER, my
hubby and I went there over the holidays to get a Bianchi jersey for my son who is size mans small, and the help was less than helpful...almost nasty to us and we ended up walking out with a very big wad of cash that we were going to spend there. We then went to Harris Cyclery in Newton, they were closing but let us in and got us everything we wanted plus!! The Asian woman that works there was a love, and bent over backwards to help us.
I have a special love for BA because my daughters godfather
started the business and later sold it, but many of the same help are there. I did not see the periwinkle dolce but I do love that Hardrock...my husband thinks he saw it go out when he was there last week...boo hoo
karen

[massbikebabe]

Oh yeah Surly that Specialized is sweet

http://www.specialized.com/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=9635&JServSessionIdroot=7t535i1yge.j27005


I have to stop looking. Hubby says I have waaaaay to many bikes now...(Trek 5200 carbon, Terry Precision, and green 5 year old Hardrock)

karen

[spazzdog]

That's wierd about your experience at Wheelworks... everytime I go in there it's been fine. I bought my bike there, but admittedly I don't go at holidays or on weekends... it's just too busy in there.

Perhaps the xmas "cheer" had done it's number on yet another group of retail workers.

Surly & MBB, which towns are y'all in again? Take it to PM if you'd rather.

[Surlygirl]

Hey Spazzdog,
I'm in Grafton, just south of Worcester.
Here you are going west to ride the Cinderella. Sooooo jealous. Especially with the weather we're having here lately.

[Surlygirl]

Karen,
Sorry to hear about your experience with Belmont. I've heard good things about Harris Cyclery too though. They are just a little farther than I want to drive for bike stuff though. BA is only 9 miles from me so not bad. Trek Stop is down the bottom of the hill from me but they drive me crazy in there so I avoid them. Slow service, slow response and impossible to get waited on.
Can one have to many bikes? My hubby bought 2 this year. I figure if he's going to have a mid life crisis, better it be bikes than babes. LOL.

[massbikebabe]

Surly:

Maybe like Spazz said...they were just holiday cheered out.
I had gone in during the summer and they were a wee bit more helpful. I've never been in Trek Stop...but have not heard good things...aaaahhhhh, when I open my shop....

karen

ps-Harris is not so far...just off the pike to 30 to W. Newton

[massbikebabe]

Cali:

To truly answer your original question, I have 650 tires and have never had a problem getting them. I always carry 2 tubes just in case. The only thing I hate about the 650's is they never seem to go on sale... :mad:

karen

[Adventure Girl]

To truly answer your original question, I have 650 tires and have never had a problem getting them. I always carry 2 tubes just in case. The only thing I hate about the 650's is they never seem to go on sale... :mad:It's like wearing size 5-1/2 shoes (I have small wheels and small feet! :p ). The shoe/tire selection isn't great, and yes... you rarely find them on sale!

[Surlygirl]

Can you guys tell me what kind of bikes you have with 650 wheels. I'm thinking of going that route since I'm only 5.0 tall. I'd like to stick with steel so I may have to go custom. I have the same problem with mountain bikes, I have an old Gary Fisher tassahara in xs and I still have no standover height. I think Titus has an xxs frame. Any suggestions?

[Dirt Girl]

Can you guys tell me what kind of bikes you have with 650 wheels. I'm thinking of going that route since I'm only 5.0 tall. I'd like to stick with steel so I may have to go custom. I have the same problem with mountain bikes, I have an old Gary Fisher tassahara in xs and I still have no standover height. I think Titus has an xxs frame. Any suggestions?

I'm 5'1" with something like a 27" inseam and ride a small Santa Cruz Juliana. It don't have any problem with standover. If you can try out a Titus, though, go for it. I understand they are pretty sweet. The local LBSs didn't carry them at the time I was looking.

I've recently been looking for a road bike. If the LBS can figure out the right handlebar set up for me, I'll be getting a Trek 2000 with 650 wheels. It is aluminum though. The Specialized Dolce is pretty nice, but I found the ride to be a little more rough than the Trek. I've had a very hard time trying to find steel in a size that will fit both me and the budget. If you're willing to spend the money, options increase for a small steel frame. I rode a nice Co-motion steel in a 46 cm but it was about twice what I'm willing to spend on a first road bike. The Jamis Quest is a great deal for a steel frame with some nice components but the wheels are 700 even in the smallest frame size. And of course options really increase when you consider custom!

Good luck in the search. Let us know if you find something!

[massbikebabe]

Surly:

I have a Trek 5200 with 650 wheels. I love the carbon. If your interested in staying with steel I think Giant makes a smaller frame and there is a Giant dealer in Worcester.

karen

[emily_in_nc]

Some of the Terry models come with two 650 wheels and most are steel. Check them out at www.terrybicycles.com. They have a section where people post used Terrys for sale, too.

I ride an Aegis Swift with 650 wheels and love it. Nothing wrong with smaller wheels - I'm 5'2" and wouldn't ride a bike with two 700c wheels. I also have a Bike Friday with 20" wheels that I love to death! And a Terry with a 24" wheel in front, 700 in back. All are great.

Emily

[Surlygirl]

Okay, who bought the beautiful pink demo bike at the Luna site? I just saw it and they just told me it was sold a few days ago. Caligirl? Just kidding.
I was so psyched, now I'm bummed.

Emily, I tried to test a Terry at an LBS but they didn't have my size and wanted a 500.00 deposit to get one in for me to try. No thanks.
So I'll keep looking and drooling.

[SadieKate]

Surly, have you looked at the FAQs on Terry Bicycles's website? They'll work directly with you and have a return guaratee. I have a friend who found an older model Ti frame in San Francisco, had some questions about it, called Terry and ended up talking with Georgena herself. She was incredibly impressed with their responsive, helpfulness, etc. How far are you from them?

[Surlygirl]

East Coast just outside of Boston. I'm sure if I called them they would help. I'm just looking right now. I think if I get a new bike it will be a custom. I've been buying bikes that come close to fitting for to long.

[Trek420]

Quick note back on the 650 size subject before I get back to work. I have a full custom Mondonico, standard full size wheels, no toe overlap issues, top tube hardley even slants and I'm 5'1". Don't know how he does it but somehow he does. :) :p :cool:

[emily_in_nc]

Quick note back on the 650 size subject before I get back to work. I have a full custom Mondonico, standard full size wheels, no toe overlap issues, top tube hardley even slants and I'm 5'1". Don't know how he does it but somehow he does. :) :p :cool:

Do you have tiny feet? I wear a size 7 and have a little bit of toe overlap even on my Aegis with 650C wheels and a 19.1" top tube! Given the same frame geometry, 700C wheels would result in a lot more toe overlap, which wouldn't be acceptable to me. I'm pretty impressed with the Mondonico, but perhaps your top tube is long for your height?

Emily

[caligurl]

Okay, who bought the beautiful pink demo bike at the Luna site? I just saw it and they just told me it was sold a few days ago. Caligirl? Just kidding.
I was so psyched, now I'm bummed.

not me! i'm not the guilty party! when i get one.. it's gonna be custom from the start! lol! and as of right now.. my color scheme is not pink! :cool:

[Surlygirl]

Caligirl, just busting your chops. Did you go to the site and check it out. It is still up on the demo bikes for sale page. It has 650 wheels also. I'd also like custom but after reading the specs, it was pretty darn close to what I was looking for except maybe not pink and the price was more what I had in mind.