Hey swimmers.... [Archive] - Women's Cycling Discussion Forums

froglegs

12-12-2007, 02:33 PM

How many strokes do you take between breaths? I usually took a breath every 4 strokes before I started training myself to breath bilaterally instead of just on the left side. Now, if I alternate sides every breath, I have to do 3 or 5 strokes (3 feels like too many and 5 feels like not enough). I have also tried doing a few breaths on one side and a few on the other, but this seems to require a lot of concentration and is frustrating for me, as I am also trying to work on other aspects of my swim technique. Any suggestions?

TriMom217

12-12-2007, 04:32 PM

hi FL,

here's my take on bi-lateral breathing...

it's a good thing to be able to do, especially in a race. you may have either swimmers or waves on one side or the other and it is imperative that you be able to breathe on the other side.

so....

practice. That's really all there is too it. I was a left-side breather and sank like a rock when I would try to breathe to the right side. That was 8 or 9 years ago and now the right side is actually my stronger side.

I am more comfortable breathing every 4 strokes as well, and many times breathing on 3 makes me dizzy. The other idea of bi-lateral breathing is that balance is achieved in the water as you motor on down the lane. You will become better balanced as you practice bi-lateral breathing, even if you breathe to the right going down the lane, and to the left coming back. Work on s-l-o-w-l-y blowing bubbles as you exhale and that might help regulate your breathing so the 3 or 5 stroke can become more comfortable.

lots of practice and it will become second nature. FWIW I've been lifeguarding and teachign swimming lessons for about the last 4 years, so I've been able to observe a lot of really good swimmers and help some on their way to being good. A lot of Master swimmers do not bi-lateral breathe. When I asked why I was told "because it's too hard." Hrmph. I'm not buying that! However MOST of the triathletes I know do bi-lateral breathe.

good luck, and "just keep swimming!"

:)

HillSlugger

12-12-2007, 04:51 PM

I've been a left breather, breathing every second stroke. All fall I've been working on bilateral breathing, breathing every third stroke. I'm getting increasingly proficient at the bilateral breathing but I still find it more tiring.

froglegs

12-12-2007, 08:06 PM

I think I made some progress tonight. I tried to focus as much as possible on rotating to the left and right, and this actually helped with my breathing, as well as my stroke efficiency. I started to get comfortable breathing on every 3rd stroke. It was tiring, but I think I'll get the hang of it. :)

HillSlugger

12-13-2007, 06:15 AM

Side swimming drills helped improve my balance and rotation.

Kimmyt

12-13-2007, 06:23 AM

I breathe every 3 strokes, unless I'm using a pullbuoy and then my strokes go faster so I breathe every 5 strokes. If you feel like 3 is not enough time to breathe properly, try lengthening your stroke, I do this by envisioning that a piece of string is tied to my hands and when the leading hand is out front i really streeeeetch from my shoulder out to the tips of my fingers. This lengthens not only the stroke, but increases the time of each stroke, lowers my heartrate, and allows me to modify the amount of time in between breaths alot more.

Alternately, you could use faster arm strokes and breathe every 5 strokes.

Good luck!

Kim

flash

12-31-2007, 09:11 AM

Hi froglegs! My take on bilateral breathing is 3-2-3-2-etc. Pseudo-bilateral, I guess you could call it. I like the pattern b/c whether I'm in the pool or open water, I can really look around on one side (say, at the shore to figure out where I am, or for a competitor to guage how I am doing in a race), then the other; yet still breathe on both sides to keep a balanced stroke. If you like to breather every 4 strokes, maybe something like 5-2-5-2- would work for you?

froglegs

12-31-2007, 01:31 PM

I've been alternating sides with every breath (breathing every 3 strokes) but once I start open water swimming, I have a feeling that may change. :)

KSH

12-31-2007, 02:18 PM

Every 2 strokes on the right side. I have been doing this since I started on a swim team when I was 13 years old. I'm 35 now and still swimming that way.

I've tried bilateral breathing... but it was just too much effort. I swim fast doing what I do now... why spend effort and energy on improving it... when I need to spend that time on improving my running and cycling.

Good luck on finding what works best for you! :)

KnottedYet

12-31-2007, 05:22 PM

I don't put my head underwater. I may the be only chickie to do the Danskin Tri with a doggie paddle/left sidestroke/no water in my face technique.

Someday I want to learn to swim properly, like you guys.

teigyr

12-31-2007, 05:40 PM

KnottedYet

12-31-2007, 05:43 PM

Serious. Took me 25 min to do half a mile (3/4 of a kilometer or so) but I did it. Everyone passed me.

(but I passed them on the bike leg! Yeah! ...but then they passed me again on the run)

kelownagirl

12-31-2007, 05:47 PM

Knot - you are the reason I decided to make triathlon my goal. :)

KnottedYet

12-31-2007, 05:59 PM

:)
I always tell my patients that I'm the example of what not to do.

I sucked at the tri, but I had a great fun time! I kicked serious heinie on the bike leg, so at least I know where my strength is!

Wanna do the same course again. (I've heard they shortened the swim leg, which is FINE with me) Wanna do it on my road bike and walk/jog the run leg and see if my time picks up.

Tri is the most crazy fun I've had in years. Doing a women's only tri is an absolute blast!

If anyone has ever considered it, or just thought it might be a distant goal, GO FOR IT! It doesn't matter how well you do, everyone cheers for you! And you end up cheering for everyone!

It's cosmic love and harmony and "us vs. the course" rather than "me vs. you."

(and Sally Edwards does every Danskin, and she is one HOT "older" babe! She always is the last person to cross the finish line. If you are second to last, she and a few other elites go with you every step of the way -until the line, where you go first- and you get a huge cheer from the crowd and a basket of goodies)

teigyr

12-31-2007, 09:14 PM

I did 700 meters on the Subaru tri and did it in like 30 min. It was bad...all the bikes were out of transition before me. At least the ones in my wave, at least.

And womens tri's are the best :D I did the Subaru (womens, with the escort finish at the end) and the Kirkland one which was mixed. The Kirkland one, even with a shorter swim segment, wasn't as good as the womens only.

To go way way way off-topic, the half-marathon I signed up for is womens only. It's a different atmosphere entirely and I prefer it.

So back to swimming. I'm trying bi-lateral and am doing poorly. I guess it's practice but I am so used to trying harder instead of practicing technique. It's highly frustrating.

happy new year!!!

horsemom

01-01-2008, 03:11 AM

I am with KSH, I breath every two strokes on the right. I will throw in a left side once in a while to see where I am. I came up through the ranks of AAU, YMCA, High School, and then college as a distance swimmer. I have done two ultra open water swims (the length of a local lake at 18 miles, and Cape Cod to Martha's Vineyard) and now do tris. I have just done sprint and xterra, and the longer the swim the better I do. I am heavy on the swimming, but just can't get comfortable bilateral breathing.

Laura

froglegs

01-01-2008, 04:50 PM

wemoon

01-12-2008, 04:25 AM

I feel much more comfortable just breathing on my right and breath every 2 strokes. I can breathe on my left and I practice it a little, but I think I am going to up the amount of practice I do on the left. I'm not sure if I care to learn to bilateral breathe. I just think as far as preventing injury and being able to change my breathing for the conditions of the course, it would be beneficial to feel comfortable breathing whichever way I need to.

bikerHen

01-12-2008, 03:31 PM

I just added a swimming routine to my life. It's been way more years than I like to think about since I've done any swimming. And was surprised I didn't sink to the bottom on my first swim. I was even more surprised that I really enjoyed my time in the pool.

I am assuming that bilateral breathing is turning your head to the left and then the right? I actually tried that on Thursday, cause I had a sore neck from turning to just the right side. I thought it worked rather well. Since it seems I'm not doing anything to stupid, I guess I'll keep on doing it. Now all I have to do is decide when to breath.

I do have issues with getting water in my ears. Ear plugs don't seem to work for me, I tried a cap and it helped some. I saw something on line that was a type of head band thing that keeps the water out of ears. Anyone have or heard of this? Also any tips on shower products to help with the chlorine smell? bikerHen

KSH

01-13-2008, 05:50 AM

Hey Biker Hen.. here's our thread on smelling like chlorine:

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=20463

Congrats on swimming... I hope you continue with it and enjoy it!

KSH

01-13-2008, 05:52 AM

I have read that breathing only on one side can injure the opposite shoulder. My sister believes this as well, she used to swim competitively and was a left-side breather, and her right shoulder is pretty messed up now. When I started swimming again in Oct, I did too much too quickly and had to back off for a few weeks. My right shoulder was the one that hurt, and I was breathing only on the left side. So at that point I decided I was going to learn how to breathe on my right side as well.... although in a race I'll probably just revert to left-side breathing, since I seem to get more air and less water that way. :)

I guess it can if you are swimming 5-7 days a week for 1-2 hours at a time... is that exact? No. My point is this... I think you can injure the opposite shoulder if you swimming A LOT... our workouts... well, my workouts... 3,000-8,000 yards a week for 1-2.5 hours... it's doubtful. I'm not swimming that much.

I have been swimming with only right side breathing for YEARS (22 years)... and my left shoulder isn't injured.

But hey, all bodies are different... right?

kat_h

01-13-2008, 06:56 AM

I'm so glad I found this thread. It never even occurred to me to breath on the other side. I'll have to wait a couple of days until I can get to the pool and try it out.

Wahine

01-13-2008, 08:51 AM

So the PT point of view on this is that bilateral breathing is better both for form and muscle balance. Unilateral breathing can cause shoulder pain, but it's related to roll. When you breath you roll farther (hopefully) so there is less stress to the shoulder on the breathing side. People tend to roll less to the non-breathing side and then strain their shoulder to get the hand out of the water for the recovery phase of the stroke. If you're a good swimmer and have a good roll to both sides, it's not bad to unilateral breathing. If you have problems with rolling, swimming even short distances unilaterally breathing can be bad.

Personally, I breath every 3 strokes when I race, 4 to 5 strokes when I'm swimming long endurance sets (3 makes me hyperventilate but if I'm swimming 4 I make a point of switching sides periodically), I often do sets to try to stretch my breathing out to every 7 strokes and when I'm swimming above my usual race pace I will often breath 3-2-3-2.

kelownagirl

01-13-2008, 08:59 AM

I'm happy to say I seem to feel comfortable breathing (gasping, choking) every 3 strokes. Hopefully it will get easier right? I take in water through my nose sometimes I think....

skinny_kitty

02-29-2008, 05:34 AM

Well, I'm new here, but am so incredibly impressed with the information on this thread that I've been talking about it for the past week.

I had a baby (#4) in October, 2006 and started to swim the following January. I hadn't done any serious swimming since I was a teen with a local swim team. In those days, you were told to be like a plank in the water and do a sort of "S" movement with your arms. I only ever breathed on my left side.

Well, doing something when you're a teen and then doing it again in your (late) 30's are two different things: What my body could handle then, it could not handle now -- especially when you add in the shoulder stress associated with nursing a fourth child (all four born in a space of 5 1/2 years).

I had tendonitis in my shoulder and no amount visits to the chiropractor could fix it. It was, of course, my right shoulder -- opposite to my breathing side.

I eventually caved for a shot of cortisone so that I could compete in two sprint tris, but the effects didn't last.

Since joining the masters swimmers, I've learned to roll a lot and breathe every three strokes. I had to scarf down a lot of chlorine (:P) before I could manage to do it well, but it was worth it. Ever since, the shoulder pain is blissfully gone.

So, this is a really long-winded way of saying thanks for discussing this: I'll be sure to breathe every three strokes and roll like a maniac now; especially when sprinting when the temptation to revert back to old ways hits me!

Bron

02-29-2008, 06:04 AM

I did 700 meters on the Subaru tri and did it in like 30 min. It was bad...all the bikes were out of transition before me. At least the ones in my wave, at least.

The way I look at it is at least you don't lose time running round like a headless chicken trying to find your bike.......

I breathe on both sides - every three strokes - our teacher at school drummed into us that that was how we were to swim.

Starfish

02-29-2008, 06:28 AM

Knot, serious? And you could do sprint tri distance? I bow down in awe. I can put my head in the water and I still struggled.

I think I will start going to swimming in Queen Ann on sundays. You are so welcome to join me!

Seriously, Ed would be a great (and kind) person to talk to about learning a more conventional stroke...a nice man. Boy, if I lived over that way, I would be joining you guys! That was a neat group when I was there; of course, that was a million years ago! :rolleyes: :D

Starfish

02-29-2008, 06:40 AM

And on the breathing...

It has been awhile since I was doing regular swim workouts, and have never done a competitive open water swim of any kind. I tend to breathe bilaterally ever other stroke (I guess every 3rd?) during workouts, as a general rule, unless I am specifically working on breathing (then less often). Or, unless I'm really getting fatigued, then just same side, because it is much easier for me.

I agree with Wahine about the roll. I don't know PT stuff, but the roll is so important. I use "off side" breathing as a test of how sloppy or weak my stroke is getting...when breathing to the other side is a lot harder, I know the balance of my stroke has deteriorated.

That said, when I used to race (and I suspect if I ever do a tri), I will just breathe on my one "good" side, because it still is not second nature to just really push hard and well during bilateral breathing.

Oh, and when I used to train in the pool, I used to pyramid sets based on number of breaths per length of pool, until it was no breaths, and then finally a length underwater. These did help me get comfortable with breathing less often.