Canine respiration rate

[Tuckervill]

Thought I'd ask here, first.

My new dog, Lucy, weighs about 50 lbs and is about a year old--part Golden Retriever and some kind of terrier. Seems pretty healthy, very active, loves to play with my 5 yo terrier mix, Zeke.

This is something I've noticed about her from the very first day. She has a really fast respiration rate when she's sleeping. In the crate the very first night, I chalked it up to anxiety with her new surroundings. Since then I've noticed it off and on in all conditions.

I just sat on the couch next to her for an hour and a half while she slept and I watched TV. I counted her respirations at NINETY-SEVEN breaths per minute. It's almost as if she's panting--but she's not panting and it's not hot in the house and she'd been resting for an hour and a half. I can see her nostrils flaring and her body is moving with every breath. Zeke (40 lbs.) was sleeping in the chair. He was breathing slow and steady, totally relaxed.

I checked online and normal is about 16-34 breaths per minute. Am I counting correctly? Every time her belly went up I counted. I counted for a full minute because I didn't have a second hand.

I'm going to check her pulse rate when she settles down again for a while. She got up and went outside and is now running around like a banshee.

I hope someone here is familiar with this!

Karen

[froglegs]

Maybe she's dreaming. My dog twitches when he dreams, and his breathing gets heavier too.

[sundial]

Karen, are her respirations like that when she's awake? When my dogs dream, their respirations are sometimes short and shallow.

[Tuckervill]

When she's awake, it's hard to tell because she's so active. She's never just sitting still, relaxed.

I would have thought this was dreaming if I had just casually noticed it, but it went on for 1-1/2 hours this afternoon. No one dreams that long, and from the time you fall asleep until you wake? I have seen her sleep peacefully, but only at night in the wee hours.

Hmph...I think I'll have to watch her some more.

Karen

[Velobambina]

My beloved golden, Agnes, died of lung cancer in May. Her increased respiration was the sign. Apparently, her body adapted to the cancer and until it spread to her lungs, there were no signs that she was sick. The end was fast, 10 days during which her breathing became increasingly more labored. I'll never get over losing her--a very special soul.

If your sweetie's always had fast respiration and the vet says she's healthy, I wouldn't worry. Taking her in for a lung xray will alleviate your concerns, however.

[BikeMomma]

Karen,

You said she's a 1yr-old-pup and active, but does the 50 pounds include a bit of extra weight or is it just solid muscle? Even a young, active dog can have too much meat on the bones, and if she's part terrier, her natural body make-up may be on the smaller size than a full Golden.

And since she's a new dog to you, have you had her tested for heartworms? I found this link, which may or may not be helpful: Rapid Respiration in Dogs (http://www.vetinfo4dogs.com/dogresp.html#Rapid Respiration).

I agree with Velobambina -- the best and most thorough way to see if Lucy is truly healthy (looks can deceive) is to have a thorough exam, including x-ray. It can be costly, but you'll know. She also may have been injured or sick in some way prior to you getting her, which may be affecting her breathing somehow (fluid in the lungs, etc). The x-ray may rule that out, too.

Either way, I'd check it out with a good veterinarian.

Best wishes to ya & hugs for Lucy,
~BikeMomma

[Tuckervill]

She's not fat. She was starving when she was rescued, and I got her about 4 days after that. She was rescued by someone who dropped her at an animal hospital and one of the employees took her home because this particular AH doesn't do rescue. (My friend who lives in that neighborhood doesn't use this vet for her 7 animals anymore, because of this fact.)

So the deal is, the AH employee said she'd had all her shots but had not been spayed. She sent me a copy of her med record, but you know, she was insistent that I talk to HER and not just call the AH to give her the fax number. That could be for any number of reasons, but I found it odd.

Further, she was eager to "be rid" (my impression, not her words) of Lucy, and I'm okay with that but I usually expect more of a screening process. I did have her round-the-block/rescuer-lady/friend-mentioned-above neighbor to vouch for me, and I have emailed updates and she seems honest and interested enough. I don't want to caste aspersions or anything.

BUT, I had suspected somewhere in my gut that I should at least get heartworms absolutely ruled out. If this woman accepted the dog against the AH's wishes, she could have been in a situation where she felt forced to stretch the truth to save the dog. I know I seem like a big sap when it comes to dogs and she could have figured I wouldn't give up on Lucy if I later found out she was HW positive.

All that to say, I'm glad you brought up heartworms. It solidified something in my gut, and Lucy will be going to my vet tomorrow. I also want to get her hips checked. Thanks.

Karen ::shivering at the cost of heart worm treatment:::how am I going to keep her "quiet?"::::oy::::

[jusdooit]

Just wishing you luck with the vet visit. I am also a big sucker. Who can walk away from beautiful big brown eyes?

[BikeMomma]

That does sound shady, I have to say. But, at the same time, you have to hand it to the lady...she loves dogs and probably does not agree with her employer's non-rescue policy either. So she decided to take matters into her own hands -- (somewhat) admirable, really. But, what's not admirable is that she didn't go beyond that to explain to you that there may be something wrong with Lucy. That's the shady part there.

And may I say that your willingness to take on Lucy like you did is more than admirable. Beyond that, to be willing to take it from there with her treatment is just the awesomest. Thanks, from a fellow animal lover. ;) :)

I used to work at an animal hospital many (many) years ago and we'd have those kids of cases dropped off every so often. We usually would keep them isolated from other animals just in case they had something contagious and give them a thorough exam. We wouldn't euthanize a dropped-off stray unless we found something fatally wrong with the animal (hit by a car, leukemia, etc). If the animal WAS sick but treatable, we would actually start treating them and at the same time, post their pic/story on our rescue board in the reception area to have the dog/cat adopted. They usually were eventually.

I took home such a rescue -- a spunky, charismatic little black terrier puppy (then seven months old) that I named Roxy. She was abandoned at the hospital AFTER the family brought her in initially. Her leg was badly broken and they couldn't afford her treatment, so they just left her there - so cruel. But we kept her there at the hospital for a long time. We didn't cast the leg or do surgery, but it healed over well on its own without treatment beyond antibiotics (a minor miracle). By the time the doc said he'd have to find a home for her to free up kennel space, I was already smitten. During the ride home, she gave me the best, heart-melting look of thanks for taking her out of that place. It's like she knew. A year or so later, she was able to use her leg fully, after her muscles had become stronger. I had my little best friend for many happy years. She died of cancer about three years ago...November 8th is the 3yr anniversary, actually. Coming up. :( I miss my Roxy, as you can probably tell from my long ramble (sorry!).

But I digress! When I talk of rescuing dogs, I always speak of her.

Karen, just a gentle reminder though -- if it is heartworms and they are very advanced, the veterinarian may advise euthanasia. If she has a weakened heart already, it will be pretty hard on her and she might not make it. Hard to swallow, I know.

I'll be crossing my fingers for Lucky Lucy tomorrow. ;) Sending positive vibes...
~BikeMomma

[ibcycling]

Fingers are crossed here too. I hope everything turns out ok at the vet's office.

Lora

[Hub]

Nothing original to add, I just hope your furbaby will get a good report.- Good for her, good for you and your pocketbook.

[Velobambina]

Been thinking of Lucy Bear and wondering how she's doing. Please give us an update. In the meantime, my goldens (Maud, Maeve, and banshee-puppy Fiona) my angel golden (Agnes, up there keeping St. Peter company), and I are sending you lots of good wishes.

[Tuckervill]

Thanks, everyone. I was unable to get her to the vet today because it is my son's birthday and he has a herd of teens coming over tonight and I have not sat down all day for the getting ready. Lucy is first on my list for the morning, though. Luckily, our vet is a walk-in clinic, so she will get in tomorrow.

She's doing just fine, however--except for the fast resps during sleep. My middle son brought his dog (Tybalt, Prince of Cats--how's that for a dog name?) over to play and the three of them were like crazy dogs for a couple of hours. That's just the thing--you'd think a dog with some kind of malady would not be able to play like that.

But, it is best to get it checked out. First thing tomorrow!

Karen

[Tuckervill]

I took her in, and the vet took blood and put it in a little device that tests for lots of stuff. She came up negative for everything except Ehrlichia, and that was mildly postiive. That means she could be developing it from a recent tick bite, or have had exposure in the past. So she's on a round of doxycycline and then it should all be okay.

The vet suggested that if she's fighting the Ehrlichia she might be having recurring fevers and that could cause her breathing to accelerate for cooling even if she's not panting. I don't think that's it, but it could be.

I'm more of the opinion that she could be like a newborn baby who doesn't have the ability to regulate her breathing and sleeping, etc., and that she will grow out of it. She gets the hiccups all the time AND she's the first dog I've ever heard belch! She was starving, after all, so it could be that she developed some kind of neurological glitch or something like that. Since it doesn't bother her, and I'm positive there's no heartworm, I'm going to ignore it unless something else related pops up.

Thanks for your help!

Karen

[LBTC]

she's the first dog I've ever heard belch!

Really? 'Cuda would love to challenge her to a belching match! :D

Glad things are looking good for you!

Hugs and butterflies,
~T~

[Tuckervill]

You can hear her pass gas, too, and that is only marginally better than the silent but deadly ones! lol.

I started out giving her active culture yogurt when she was extremely skinny, but I've run out. Maybe it's time for some more.

Karen

[BikeMomma]

I took her in, and the vet took blood and put it in a little device that tests for lots of stuff. She came up negative for everything except Ehrlichia, and that was mildly postiive. That means she could be developing it from a recent tick bite, or have had exposure in the past. So she's on a round of doxycycline and then it should all be okay.

The vet suggested that if she's fighting the Ehrlichia she might be having recurring fevers and that could cause her breathing to accelerate for cooling even if she's not panting. I don't think that's it, but it could be. Awesome, Karen -- that's great news. I'm not totally familiar with Ehrlichia, so I found this link: Ehrlichia Infection in Dogs (http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_ehrlichia_infection_in_dogs.html). It was helpful to me, so maybe it will be a useful reference for you and others. Interestingly, it says at Stage 1 they tend to go off their food, which could have contributed to the starved look. Just a thought.

It does reference anemia as being a symptom, as well as fever. Both anemia and fever could elevate the respiration. I agree with your Vet's assessment of the fever/breathing relation. Panting is the involuntary way dogs cool themselves. Although I'm not a Vet and have never claimed to be, I have been around alot of sick dogs working at the hospital and have witnessed closed-mouth panting many times.

Sounds like Lucy has a bright future. Yay!! You sound so relieved, too. Hey do you have any pics of her? I'd love to see the little gal (I guess she's not little at 50lbs though, huh?).

~BikeMommma

PS: oh yeah.....my Mayah farts the deadliest of any silent ones I've ever known AND belches quite loudly. Nothing ladylike about her, the brut. Gotta love them pooches!!