Eating post-training

[lph]

Hi all!

I've read lots of places that for optimal muscle restitution one should eat some "fast" carbohydrates immediately after a work-out, preferably within the first 20 minutes and at least within 1 hour. So far so good.

So what constitutes a "work-out"? At what point is this worth following?

A bike ride longer than x minutes? A bike ride energetic enough to raise your HR above some level? Or is this mostly for strength-type workouts?

I'm trying to up my training levels now both cycling and climbing,
but I'm a bit sloppy about "training" vs "non-training". Real "training rides" are no problem, but I can start my commute off easy and end up chasing some poor roadie all the way home. Or I can stop on the way home for a climbing session, climb hard, then doodle my way home slowly on my bike and not eat til much later. And I was thinking that I should maybe think a bit more about when and not jsut what I eat :)

[Zen]

When in doubt just have chocolate milk (http://www.sportsgeezer.com/sportsgeezer/2006/03/and_the_ultimat.html)! It has the optimum ratio of carbs, fat and protein and it's tasty too:)

[froglegs]

Does beer count? That's what I had last night after my run. :D

Good question though, I've been wondering the same thing.

[spokewench]

I think it probably depends upon how much you ride normally, how long (years) you have been riding.

For instance, as I have ridden more years in a row, and when I am riding a lot every week, my body becomes more efficient in utilizing the energy I put into it. So, I don't need to eat as much as I used to because of the more efficient body.

If I haven't been riding much in a year, I need more food for a shorter period of time on the bike.

So, the longer the ride and the harder the ride, eat more when you get off the bike, right away. The shorter the ride, easier the ride, eat less. I agree chocolate milk is good. Other endurance after ride drinks are good too. If you start to gain weight, you are probably eating too much so just have a banana instead of the big carboload. Each person is different so you have to rate yourself accordingly.

I don't carboload if I just ride ten-20 miles anymore. Don't need to. If it is more, I will eat as soon as I can when I get back home.

spoke

[jusdooit]

I think it's considered 2 hours or more. A LBS hosted a nutrition talk here recently by a registered dietician. It was pretty informative. She recommended a book by Liz Applegate, The Encyclopedia of Sports and Fitness Nutrition. Ms. Applegate is also a RD, PhD, professor, and best of all a cyclist. I haven't purchased the book yet, but plan to. I had been riding to eat, now I want to eat to ride.

[OakLeaf]

I don't actually know, but from what little I do know about cell metabolism, it seems to me that intensity should be much more important than duration to how much you deplete your glycogen stores.

Good question, though, I'm interested in learning more about this.

[roadie gal]

This is a great question! I've searched google, general sports sites and some medical sites. I can't find any mention of the amount of time spent exercising that would require a specific post exercise recovery meal. All of the articles talk about the time frame to having the meal not the amount of time you have to exercise for the meal to become important.

[roadie gal]

Here is the closest thing I've found (I'm obsessed now):
http://cals.arizona.edu/pubs/health/az1386.pdf

The table is a bit confusing, but if you page down to the "within 2 hours post exercise" box it gives a recommendation of amounts needed after exercising a certain length of time.

[lph]

Terrific. Thanks guys :)

I get hungry real fast, so I'm not really in any danger of depriving myself. Typically I try to eat a little just before any exercise.

It's funny, though, climbing I get hungry - and thirsty - faster than biking.

[Wahine]

Here's the way I think about this issue. It's all based on glycogen depletion in the muscle and in the liver (in the case of long workouts). For optimal muscle recovery you have to replace the glycogen as soon as possible.

The body uses energy from different sources (glycogen in muscle, glycogen in the liver and energy derived from fat metabolism) based on several factors. All of these sources are being utilized at any one time but in differing proportions. How each individual utilizes energy is affected by many factors, length of time exercising, intensity and the body efficiency at using certain energy sources.

All of the above I know is pretty accurate, although simplified.

Now I'm branching into a my understanding of what this means practically. This is my interpretation and realize that nutrition is certainly not my expertise.

Any activity of high intensity of more than what could be considered a brief bout of exercise, should be followed by some replacement, how much will depend on the length of time, but I would guess that anything more that 30 min at intensity would constitute enough activity to warrant a full 200 cals ASAP. High intensity depletes muscle glycogen first and quickly.

In an unconditioned individual you will see a lot of glycogen used even for lower intensity aerobic activity so you would again replenish certainly for anything more than 30 minutes. Unconditioned individuals do not have the ability to metabolize and use other energy sources as efficiently so they will preferentially use muscle glycogen.

In a more highly conditioned athlete, it will take a lot longer to deplete muscle glycogen at lower levels of intensity, so that is probably something that a person would need to experiment with. Having said that, even if you're not depleting your glycogen too much on a 2 hour ride because it's low intensity and you're taking in carbohydrate while you workout, you're still burning enough calories to easily make up for a 200 cal hit after the workout and you're body will just use it where it's needed - in the muscle, to replace liver glycogen or just as general fuel. So why not go ahead and have that glass of chocolate milk?

A conditioned athlete, exercising at low intensity for less than 1 hour is not likely to deplete their muscle glycogen substanially, so I wouldn't worry about replenishing that much.

As for climbing versus riding, I think that has to do with intensity. I consider climbing an intense effort workout, similar to weight lifting. So I would definitely stock up after a session.

Beer does count as quick carbs and I often use it for recovery :D . Unfortunately, the alcohol supresses testosterone and will decrease the amount of stimulation you're body will get for new muscle growth and it doesn't have the protein and fat that you want. Zen is right, chocolate milk is the best and cheaper choice. :mad:

There's my .02.

[froglegs]

How about a quesadilla? That's what I had today after my ride & run. I need to go grocery shopping!

[RoadRaven]

I read somewhere that after an intense workout you should eat to replace glycogen stores within the first half hour...

That kinda how we work anyways...

During a race (Hr elevated and sitting around lactate threshold) that takes more than an hour I eat (as in cram a whole fruit bar into my mouth) or suck down a "gu" at one hour and then every half hour.

An endurance ride (up to 4 hours) I start eating about 1 1/2 hours in (one fruit bar) and eat another every 30-45 minutes.

For a time trial (HR elevated above lactate threshoold for approx 40mins) I eat solid food no closer than 1 1/2 hours before my start, have a gu and a caffiene drink at the start line and then try and eat a couple of biscuits as soon as I can after I finish.

When I am supporting my lads for/after races (rr or tt), I have a chocolate milk or a recovery drink ready, or fruit like a banana or oranges and bickies. Thats for the first half hour. That will usually tide them over til we get home and they can doze while I get them something more filling and sustaining.

[OakLeaf]

In an unconditioned individual you will see a lot of glycogen used even for lower intensity aerobic activity

Wahine, everything you said makes really good sense to me.

I just have a question about one thing re: the above statement. When you say "lower intensity," do you mean that activity that seems lower intensity to the unconditioned individual would still deplete their glycogen stores? Or are you talking about activity that might be very low-intensity to a conditioned athlete, but puts the deconditioned person into high perceived exertion?

[lph]

This all makes excellent sense. Climbing I'm careful about eating too much in advance, my stomach tends to "discuss matters" with my harness if it's full... :p
If I'm climbing hard (indoors, 2 hrs) I'll ALWAYS get hungry after an hour or so no matter what, then it's off to the reception to see if they have any bananas, or scrounge a sandwich off my climbing buddies... And I drink a lot too.

Biking I rarely get hungry. I eat well in advance, and will maybe eat one energy bar in the course of two or three hours. I don't get very thirsty either, which has surprised me because I sure get all het up and sweaty ;) I get thirsty afterwards though, and will eat anything not nailed down.

But I think maybe very aerobic exercise suppresses appetite while you're doing it. Climbing is more high-intensity but feels "less strenuous" since there are a lot of down-periods interspersed. And it seems that my body can tell the difference just fine :D

[OakLeaf]

will eat anything not nailed down. But I think maybe very aerobic exercise suppresses appetite while you're doing it.

That's the case for me and I think most people. I really have to force myself to eat immediately after a ride. But if I do that, and replenish my glycogen stores right away, then I DON'T get the bout of ravenousness 3-4 hours later.

If I don't replenish immediately after a long ride (7+ hours), I'm ravenous and physically depleted for literally days afterward. It's amazing how many calories I can actually avoid, just by choking down a couple of Clif bars when the last thing I want to do is eat :rolleyes: