$10 Flea market find

[uforgot]

I saw this bike hidden behind some stuff. It's a Raleigh Gran Sport. Saw the lugs, thought that was good, pulled it out more, a Raleigh, saw the price $10 and knew it was going home with me. I pulled it completely out and saw that the components were Campagnola. Rear derailleur say Campagnola Gran Sport and the front derailleur just says Campagnola. Brakes are Coureur 86. Brooks saddle. Looks like it would make a good touring bike, and I love the pink metal on the brake levers and in the center of the bars. The tires say clement 50, and I'm having trouble deciding the size. I think they are 700c. Anyone know anything about these components? I've come up with a little bit, but nothing on the brakes. Keeper?

[Zen]

are those leather straps on the toe cages? Those are worth $10 alone.

look at the RetroRaleigh (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/retroraleighs/index.html) page

[uforgot]

I just took the tire off, was going to put 700cs on it, and the wheel is not like anything I've seen before. They don't have the standard rims. They are smooth and just dent in a little. A standard tire would not stay on. I did a search on clement tires and found that they were flat. Not much out there about them, or that I can find so far. Here are a couple of pics. I tried to get it so you could see how smooth the rims are.

[DebW]

Those are tubular rims. Clement 50s are sewup tires. The tires get glued onto the rims. Old style racing technology, still used by some pro racers because they are safer if you flat at high speed. I've got sewups on one of my bikes - been using them for 30 years. East Hill got a bike last year with sewup and has used them. The tires are sewn around a tube, so if you need to patch the tire, you cut stitching, patch the tube, and sew them back up. New tires can be found for $25-30 if you shop around online.

[DebW]

They are 700c in size and you could replace the wheels with 700c clinchers if you wanted. But now that you've got them, you should try them. Are the tires they came with any good? You'll need some tubular cement. Ah, the fine art of gluing on sewups.... A 3 step process with a drying time of 12-24 hours.

[uforgot]

They are 700c in size and you could replace the wheels with 700c clinchers if you wanted. But now that you've got them, you should try them. Are the tires they came with any good? You'll need some tubular cement. Ah, the fine art of gluing on sewups.... A 3 step process with a drying time of 12-24 hours.

The tires that are on it are dry and cracking when I move them. Maybe I'll try them! After you responded I did a search and they ARE available. Any online resources for installing them?

[Tuckervill]

The guys over at bikeforums.net>Classic & Vintage would love to hear about that bike, especially since it has Campy parts. You might be able to flip it for much more than you paid, as is.

If you're going to keep it, I'll bet those rims will intrigue someone over there, too. You'll probably need 27" wheels to replace them.

Karen

[DebW]

The tires that are on it are dry and cracking when I move them. Maybe I'll try them! After you responded I did a search and they ARE available. Any online resources for installing them?

There are online resources. Try google. Using the glue is straightforward, but putting the tire on over the glue without getting glue all over your sidewall and the side of the rim isn't easy the first few times. You'll want to remove that old glue from the rims (probably with solvent). Then practice putting the new tire onto the rim without any glue. The fit is very tight and the trick is to stretch the tire before you start (stand on the tire and pull on it or put it behind your back and twist your shoulders) and then stretch it as you put it on. Practice this several times because if the last tight bit of the tire just barely slides over the rim, you'll push glue onto the sidewall. If you inflate the tire on the bare rim and let it sit for a day or more, it will go on easier when you glue it. For a good glue job, put a layer of glue on the rim strip of the tire and on the full width of the rim and let those dry overnight. Then you put a 2nd layer on the rim, wait 10 minutes, and mount the tire. Once the tire is on, inflate it and push it side to side until the tire is all straight and true on the rim. Then let it dry overnight or 24 hours. You need to carry a spare tire on your rides to be ready for flats. In that case, you put the spare tire on the old glue and it holds well enough to get you home, but take corners conservatively when the tire isn't well glued.



If you're going to keep it, I'll bet those rims will intrigue someone over there, too. You'll probably need 27" wheels to replace them.


Clinchers of that era were 27" and sewups 700c, then clinchers went to 700c to be compatible with sewups.

[uforgot]

The guys over at bikeforums.net>Classic & Vintage would love to hear about that bike, especially since it has Campy parts. You might be able to flip it for much more than you paid, as is.

If you're going to keep it, I'll bet those rims will intrigue someone over there, too. You'll probably need 27" wheels to replace them.

Karen

I think that I've actually belonged to bikeforums longer than TE, but since I've joined TE, I rarely go over there. I will make a post. Thanks, I completely forgot about it.

I actually put my 700c wheels on it from my road bike, and they fit, but it turns out to have a 32" standover height which is just a little too big for me! So your suggestion is doubly appreciated!

[uforgot]

Wow Deb! Who knew? Once I think I about have this stuff under control, I learn something new! Not sure what I'm going to do with this bike, but I found some tubular tires (http://www.yellowjersey.org/tt.html) online and I may just give this a shot. It's too big for me, but I'm fascinated with this stuff. I did try to put some extra 700c clinchers on there, but those Michelins were always sooooo tight. I'm going to try the stand on them thing, too. I've heard that you can put them in the dryer. For tonight I finally gave up. 1 broken tire lever and skinned knuckles. I'll try again tomorrow, or maybe just wait for the tubulars. Thanks so much for all of your help. I have learned so much from you on TE.

[KnottedYet]

Wow, what an amazing find!

[smilingcat]

taking a closer look at the tubular rim and can't see knife marks on the inside. Definitly use a steel wool and some solvent to remove the old glue first. Want it really clean...then follow Deb's instruction.

Oh you may want to tear down the races. hubs front and rear and the bottom bracket and repack with grease. BB will need a special spline tool just for that BB. Hubs can be torn down with open ended box wrench. The rear cluster will have to be removed to get to the races and that too will require a spline tool. It'll be a good (several) weekened project for your DH :D

You probably should also check the wear in the head set.

Sounds like a lot of work but it really isn't. Really nice find for $10.00

smilingcat

[uforgot]

The guys over at bikeforums.net>Classic & Vintage would love to hear about that bike, especially since it has Campy parts. You might be able to flip it for much more than you paid, as is.

If you're going to keep it, I'll bet those rims will intrigue someone over there, too. You'll probably need 27" wheels to replace them.

Karen

You're right, they're giving me all sorts of good information. It turns out, it's a 1962 model (http://collection.rydjor.com/bikecollection/1962ral.htm). I think everything is stock on it (except that plastic bar tape). The saddle is a Brooks Swallow. I've never even looked at the Brooks saddles on Wallingford cause they are way out of my price range. Still not sure what to do with it. This is a classic that shouldn't be parted out, (and the bikeforums guys agree) but it's so big! And with my bike expertise...well, I'm not touching it just yet.

[DebW]

Oh you may want to tear down the races. hubs front and rear and the bottom bracket and repack with grease. BB will need a special spline tool just for that BB. Hubs can be torn down with open ended box wrench. The rear cluster will have to be removed to get to the races and that too will require a spline tool. It'll be a good (several) weekened project for your DH :D

You probably should also check the wear in the head set.


Smilingcat, are you an old fart sewup user too? Yes, definitely repack the hub, bb, and headset. You'll need a set of cone wrenches (13 mm and 15 mm) to do the hubs. Freewheel tools are specific to the freewheel brand (Regina, SunTour, Atom, Malliard) and some brands used more than one style over time. Raleigh bb's didn't use spline tools, either a narrow flat that fit a large wrench or holes that fit a pin spanner, and a lockring tool. The headset may require a 32 mm thin headset wrench along with a large crescent wrench. And I don't consider this a project for uforgot's DH.

[uforgot]

And I don't consider this a project for uforgot's DH.

No DH in the picture. When he WAS in the picture I wasn't allowed to pursue activities like this.

a) The $10 didn't go towards something that could be put on the table.
b) Biking is not golf.
c) The guy couldn't even change the oil in the lawnmower. We HIRED someone, even though I knew how to do it. (I'm not a man, how could I know how? Well, here's how...my father thought women should be able to make their own repairs on vehicles and homes. HE taught me)
d) As the years went by, I grew more bold, even to the point of putting up paneling, replacing a door, etc. Of course, it was always wrong. The power tools that he liked to own only had MY fingerprints on them.
e) Oh, don't feel sorry for me, I had my revenge. I'm a lousy cook.
He married a Martha Stewart wannabe after I woke up and decided he should leave.

So you see, this is a project for ME. You guys have always been an inspiration. I always suspected, but now know for sure that you don't need a set of testicles to work on bikes, homes, cars...

Okay, now back to the wonderful input and suggestions.

[DebW]

I took a look at your additional pictures on bikeforums. The crankset is steel and cottered. If you wanted to turn this into a bike for distance riding, I'd replace the crankset with a cotterless alloy model, which would save weight and add stiffness. The front derailleur is the old pushrod variety. There's a reason those were replaced with parallelograms. Pushrod derailleurs hold the cage at the same height no matter which chainring you are on, so you'll get a lousy shift on anything but a narrow-range double (which that bike has). And to adjust that model, there is a screw for the outside stop, but the inside is adjusted by moving the cage on the pushrod, which requires you to readjust the outer stop screw. This is the same design as the old plastic Simplex front derailleur, which was in widespread use through the early 70s (Simplex must have copied the Campy Gran Sport). If you want to keep this vintage, I'm sure you could just repack all the bearings, clean it up, and have a great bike (or sell it for a good profit).

[Zen]

I looked at some of the other bikes on the site where your Raleigh was featured.
This one (http://collection.rydjor.com/bikecollection/1962sea.htm) really caught my eye.

(i wonder what "dh" and Martha look like now)

[smilingcat]

Hi DebW,

I guess I'm getting up there in years. I never like the mess with tubulars or fixing it on the road. I've been told handling was much better on the tubulars. I used to see guys with tubulars in their back pocket.

Center pulls, sidepull brakes. Going to clipless. Mostly Look I think.

5 speed then 6 speed, ultra 7 and 8. Problems with the spread of the rear triangle to accomodate all those extra gears. Worries about rear wheel. Not enough dishing because of the wider clusters... Regina, Maillard hmm forgot about those names until you mentioned.

I remember back in '85? or was it before then ... to have local LBS to remove the elliptical chainrings on my new purchase. They were in vogue then. Couldn't spin properly though.

Anyway, I think uforgot is going to have some fun time cleaning up the bike. It really isn't that hard.

Oh, the ball bearings in the hubs are not sitting in a squirrel cage (is that the right terminology?) so they can drop out. Taking apart the hubs should be done on a concrete floor so you don't lose the bearings. Same with the BB.

smilingcat

[Wahine]

I love this thread. I'm learnign a lot. I know nothing about all this stuff.

Lots of triathletes run tubulars. I've always been afraid of not being able to change a flat if I had one.

[margo49]

Wow, Claudia. What a lovely old bike!
And DebW again showing us what a Mechanic she is
Another trip down Memory Lane to my Glory Days just reading about it all

[DebW]

Hi DebW,

I guess I'm getting up there in years. I never like the mess with tubulars or fixing it on the road. I've been told handling was much better on the tubulars. I used to see guys with tubulars in their back pocket.

Center pulls, sidepull brakes. Going to clipless. Mostly Look I think.

5 speed then 6 speed, ultra 7 and 8. Problems with the spread of the rear triangle to accomodate all those extra gears. Worries about rear wheel. Not enough dishing because of the wider clusters... Regina, Maillard hmm forgot about those names until you mentioned.

I remember back in '85? or was it before then ... to have local LBS to remove the elliptical chainrings on my new purchase. They were in vogue then. Couldn't spin properly though.

Anyway, I think uforgot is going to have some fun time cleaning up the bike. It really isn't that hard.

Oh, the ball bearings in the hubs are not sitting in a squirrel cage (is that the right terminology?) so they can drop out. Taking apart the hubs should be done on a concrete floor so you don't lose the bearings. Same with the BB.

smilingcat

Yeah, hub bearings are probably loose, not in a retainer. But it's cheap and good insurance to replace them when you repack the hub. (18) 1/4" in the rear hub, (20) 3/8" in the front hub, (50) 5/32" in the headset, (22) 1/4" in the bb (those are the norm but exceptions exist - # in () is # of bearings needed).

I always preferred sewups for flats on the road. Don't need tools to change them, can't pinch the tube, if the tire was slashed you're replacing it anyway. Often quicker to change than clinchers (but sometimes it's tough removing a well-glued tire). Only big issue is that you have to go home and break out the glue. I did a charity ride last year where I flatted the first day, and I got quite an audience while I glued that evening.

[Eden]

I love this thread. I'm learnign a lot. I know nothing about all this stuff.

Lots of triathletes run tubulars. I've always been afraid of not being able to change a flat if I had one.

I run tubies on my TT bike - since I'm not doing an IM distance (ours are generally short, 40K is the longest and they are more likely to run 10-12K) if you get a flat during a race you're screwed anyway so I've never worried about it. The wheels are wonderfully light - I bought my front wheel off of ebay, when I picked the box up off of my porch I was afraid the person had forgotten to put the wheel in it - felt like an empty box!