Is there a correct way to fall?

[deidre]

On my first day out with my clipless shoes/pedals, I fell 3 times. Since falling is inevitable (at least it seems that way to me right now), is there a correct way to fall?

With fall #1 yesterday, I vaguely remember telling myself that I shouldn't fight the fall (whatever that means). At the last moment, I put my hand out and hurt my wrist a little. I can't remember what I did on falls #2 and #3.

I can remember hearing other people talk about falling the "right" way (I don't remember the context now of those conversations). I tried looking for information in past threads or posts but I'm not sure if I used the right search words.

[onimity]

Hi Deidre,

I learned a lot about falling in martial arts classes... I can't recall ever seeing anything cycling-specific. In my Tae Kwon Do class we did a lot of falling exercises there, to avoid doing things like putting our wrists out (they break pretty easily) with the idea of building in an automatic response. It worked, because I still naturally fall the way I was taught. Hard to describe online, though...basically you want to spread the impact over a wider area, rather than just the wrist (or the neck!). One of my instructors used to have us make a 1 story jump onto gymnastics mats and roll properly. I thought it was nuts, who can throw you like that?!? but he got hit by a car on his bike and thrown and he probably saved his life by knowing how to land properly...

Anne

[mimitabby]

I think Anne has some good wisdom here; I was also taught to roll; if you curl up and roll you'll fare better; but that's hard to do when your bike tips over. Now, if you actually go flying from your bike like i did 10 years ago when taking a bad turn too fast, if you CAN get into a fetal position, that is definitely the way to go. I cracked some ribs; but did not break arms, hands, face...

[VeloVT]

One thing that I read here about a year ago is that, somewhat counter-intuitively, you should NOT let go of your handlebars. Hold on to them and tuck in your elbows and chin, and you will be less likely to break something. I am really bad at searching for threads but I'll bet you could find this one if you searched for it, it was about "the right way to fall."

I consciously followed this advice once last winter when my bike went right out from under me on ice (this was before I realized that you need to treat braking on ice on a bike about the same way you need to treat braking on ice in a car, i.e., you need to slow down way before you might need to stop because there's no guarantee you'll be able to stop when you do need to), and all I had to show from a pretty hard fall was a bruise on my hip and (sadly!) a scratched STI lever.

Edit: Mimi posted at the same time I did and I realized that this advice (don't let go of your handlebars), is GOOD advice but may at times have limited range of applicability (probably doesn't work so well for high-speed crashes or car collisions). But the principle still applies I guess.

[Eden]

You can, if tipping over, try to remember to keep your hands and arms in though - wrists and collar bones are fairly fragile and can break if you stiff arm the ground. I know I tend to keep my hands on the bars as I fall, which is good and bad. I think I may have broken my thumb this summer.... the cable sticks out of the controller right above where my thumb sits. I thought I just sprained it badly, but now (yeah months later) that all of the soft tissue swelling is down I still have a big hard bump on my right thumb that I certainly don't on my left.

[Trek420]

Hi Deidre,

....In my Tae Kwon Do class we did a lot of falling exercises there, to avoid doing things like putting our wrists out (they break pretty easily) with the idea of building in an automatic response. It worked, because I still naturally fall the way I was taught. Hard to describe online, though...basically you want to spread the impact over a wider area, rather than just the wrist (or the neck!). One of my instructors used to have us make a 1 story jump onto gymnastics mats and roll properly. I thought it was nuts, who can throw you like that?!? but he got hit by a car on his bike and thrown and he probably saved his life by knowing how to land properly...

Anne

Good thread here with some more info on falls and practice. Glad you're instructor ok! :) And ... there are people who throw that hard :rolleyes: :cool: :p

My Aikido teacher was descending from Old Tunnel Road when a PGE truck backed into her:eek: I hear tell from the student riding with her she pretty much brushed herself off. Good falls take years of practice and are an art by themselves.

But you can learn some basic techniques that will help even in an F.U. Artie Johnson type fall. And it's good to know, I've read that falls for elderly people are a leading cause of death or a life changing injury like broken hip.

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=6697

[Trek420]

You can, if tipping over, try to remember to keep your hands and arms in though - wrists and collar bones are fairly fragile and can break if you stiff arm the ground.

The concept is the same as a martial arts fall that is "If you can see your hands they are not behind you". Your instinct in a fall is put your hand out to stop the fall but think for a moment. What's your weight? Plus bike and gear? Now in motion with momentum if someone dropped that on you can you stop that mass and hold it up?

Probably not.

But your hips and the long bones are relatively stronger. Let them take the fall.

There's no time to think in a fall so lots of this is instinctive but Velogirl was telling me that instinctively many of us do things to avoid road rash, we avoid sliding or rolling and go for the sudden fall. Well road rash heals, it's the sudden abrupt fall that results in broken bones and worse internal injury.

If you get a chance with instruction, feedback and support, know someone with M.A. experience and can practice rolls in a safe place like lawn, mats or in a dojo practice and make it a habit.

[Eden]

There's a Tae Kwan Do studio right down the street from me. I suggested last year that I could speak to them and see if they'd offer a class on how to fall for the team. It got shot down with the reasoning that if you expect to fall you will fall.... I'm not so sure I completely agree with that. If you know how to fall and are less afraid of being hurt, you may be more relaxed on the bike and less prone to fall?????

I know that it takes more than a once or twice session to get it down to instinct (falling properly that is), but it still seemed like it might not be a bad idea.

[Trek420]

There's a Tae Kwan Do studio right down the street from me. I suggested last year that I could speak to them and see if they'd offer a class on how to fall for the team. It got shot down with the reasoning that if you expect to fall you will fall.... I'm not so sure I completely agree with that. If you know how to fall and are less afraid of being hurt, you may be more relaxed on the bike and less prone to fall?????

I know that it takes more than a once or twice session to get it down to instinct (falling properly that is), but it still seemed like it might not be a bad idea.

It takes a lifetime but you could get basic concepts quickly.

TKD is a beautiful powerful art and an exciting sport but the emphasis is on punches, kicks and it's not where I'd go to learn falls.

Look to Judo, Jui Jitsu and of course Aikido because well, that's what we do :) Throws, joint locks, pins. I spend half my time on the mat falling and the other half getting back up. :p

It sounds like he thinks of falling as loosing? The idea is not fear but:
1) Don't kill our training partners :cool: If we did not teach you how to fall we'd run out of options in the first class.:rolleyes: Aikido is said to be "dance-like", peaceful, gentle even...come on to the mat, it only looks gentle.

2) Most fights start upright then go to the ground with grappling. If you can take falls you have options even on the way down you are relaxed, aware. There's techniques you can do on the way down or fight from there or get back up. Bottom line I'm less likely to be hurt by the throw itself.

3) Of course my goal is to never have to "use it" so last but not least once you get over the "crash burn" stage Aikido falls are fun! I never did gymnastics as a kid, was and remain very uncoordinated but sometimes this is like flying.

Don't make me come up there :p

Is this place near you?

www.aikidoredmond.com

[northstar]

I was "lucky" enough to fall (due to my front wheel getting caught in an expansion joint) at 25 mph this summer, gloveless:eek: and come away with just road rash on my forearms and hips. I have NO idea how I didn't totally destroy my hands. Luck. (I NEVER ride without gloves anymore.)

I just read Robert Hurst's "The Art of Cycling" and he has a few pages on how to fall (p 171 - 173). Basically it comes down to getting your arms out so that they make first contact but they don't really bear much. Then rolling. So, pretty much what has been said here.

Thinking back to when I fell, I would have had the moment to get ready. There's that "Oh, ****" moment when you brace yourself, if you're lucky!

Eden, I like your idea. I'd do it even without my teammates, if I were on a team.

[Eden]

Trek - it wasn't the martial arts instructor that shot the idea down - I wasn't totally clear there. It was my teammates who thought teaching a person how to fall would make them think about falling. The thing is you do fall.... I know at least 5 people who broke collar bones this year!, so I still think that it might be a good idea.

Redmond isn't too far away (my husband works over there) so I could certainly check into that studio - I'm not sure if the place down the street is all Tae Kwan Do - that's just what I remember. I think they may be multi-disciplinary?? (but it might be Karate too, which also focuses on puches and kicks too right)

I've taken several tumbles and to the best of my knowledge (I can never remember what happens during the actual fall...) I've been pretty loose. I've flipped end over end (down a ditch!) without getting seriously hurt - but the surface was soft.

[Trek420]

I've taken several tumbles and to the best of my knowledge (I can never remember what happens during the actual fall...) I've been pretty loose. I've flipped end over end (down a ditch!) without getting seriously hurt - but the surface was soft.

Yes, Karate's also mostly punches/kicks/blocks too, any of the so-called "hard styles". At advanced levels many arts have more in common than not. But if you want to learn falls look to Judo, Ju Jitsu and Aikido ... 'cause that's what we do. :p On the other hand we don't punch as well :rolleyes:

Knowing how to fall might make you looser/relaxed which in turn gives you options. Your mind may go something like "I'm gonna fall :eek: but that'll be ok :o but look here, I can turn or do this" bunny hop or somethin' and save it."

I've been in situations off the bike, slips, trips, banana peel on the floor and I take the fall knowing that I'll be ok but if I struggle to stay up will pull the gimpy knee :cool: But in answer to your teammate it takes yeaaaars of practice to look that foolish. :rolleyes: Your results will vary.

But I think you're right it would help your racing and I've read that some competitive teams practice falls.

[RolliePollie]

Great advice here! The martial arts info is really interesting. I fell three times during my first few weeks with clipless pedals and I kept my hands on the handlebars...my instinct seems to be to try and protect the bike! These were all slow tip-overs though. If I was flying over the handlebars, I'm pretty sure I would put my arms out to try and catch myself even though I know that would not be the best idea. I try to tell myself that if I ever go flying, I should tuck and roll and maybe try to do something with my arms to protect my face. When I think about the aftermath of a big crash, I always worry about broken teeth for some reason.

[smilingcat]

Maybe this explains why I have shattered both collar bones and suffered concussions. :D

And to Eden,

tell your friends that I wasn't thinking about falling when I had my crashes. It was furthest from my mind. I never thought about crashing when I go out. But I do think about being squashed by a car. Thankfully, I haven't yet.

smilingcat

[deidre]

Thanks to everyone for all of your suggestions and tips.

I live near a school and decided to go out yesterday and just ride around the school's parking lot/surrounding area (not a high traffic area) and just practiced clipping in and out.

As I clipped in, I would repeat over and over "You are attached to your bike - (Thanks Karen for your biking mantra).

I would start pedaling and then I picked a random spot and had to be ready to get off of the bike. That meant I had to have both feet unclipped by that time. It was a challenge at first but I got the hang of it. I expanded my ride away from the school (a little), found a little hill and rode for another 45 minutes.

It was great! I had forgotten how much I loved riding my bike. It is such a feeling of freedom.

Now, if I can just get brave enough to venture out onto the 'real' roads. clipless or not, I am very concerned/afraid/nervous about that. When I am out running or even walking, I find I am really focused on the cars because they don't see me or seem to care that I am trying to share the road with them.

Another challenge for me to overcome! :D

[blueskies]

For those who are new to being clipped in, I think a key is to practice clipping in & unclipping, a lot. When I first got mine, I would go to a quiet bike path, and ride along, clipping and unclipping repeatedly. Ten times on the right, ten times on the left. Practice the skills that you need to be safe, so that unclipping becomes part of your muscle memory.

If you are going to fall, here's advice on how, from mountain bike legend Neal Overend, who rode for his whole career without a broken bone, quoted from the book Bike for Life:


- Balancing act: Practicing track stands and general balancing will help you avoid slow-speed falls. "It'll give you that extra second to clip-out," says Ned. And avoid toppling over on your hip.

- Slip out fast: Set up your pedals to get out of them easily in a crash. Clean 'em out, keep 'em oiled, and you can pull your foot out quickly and avoid a knee injury. (New riders might not realize that the ease of release is adjustable, just like ski bindings.)

- Soft landing: Minimize impact when you hit the ground. Fight the urge to stick an arm out; that'll risk a broken collarbone. Instead, keep your body in and try to let the handlebar and pedal hit the ground first. Before you hit, tuck your arm in and roll, letting your whole body absorbe the blow.


I would also add that it's good for new riders to learn & practice good form for a quick stop. You want to avoid the crash, when that car turns in front of you...

Blueskies

[indigoiis]

I had just this kind of fall yesterday. It was a quick stop, I came up on someone's rearend, and tried to get my feet out of the straps (I don't have clipless pedals yet.) The feet wouldn't come out. Over I went.

I landed completely bike over. So I guess I rolled. I didn't get hurt. I was still holding on to the bike but was mortified that I had toppled into this cute guy's bike.

[blueskies]

I landed completely bike over. So I guess I rolled. I didn't get hurt. I was still holding on to the bike but was mortified that I had toppled into this cute guy's bike.

If you were Meg Ryan, you'd be engaged to that guy by the end of the movie. ;)

Personally, I'd never ride with my feet in straps again. Just too hard to get out. Clipless pedals are way faster, and to me, that means safer.

Glad you didn't get hurt!

[aicabsolut]

I learned from horseback riding to tuck and roll (or at least tuck). Don't try to catch yourself. Sometimes, you may wind up hand-down for whatever reason, but don't brace yourself and be rigid if that happens. Just go fingers to elbow to shoulder to back if you can. It's hard to do when you do the slo-mo topple, because you think you can catch yourself--and your bike, but it's not usually like just tripping and falling.

I wouldn't get into the habit of unclipping both feet to stop. That makes getting off the saddle difficult, and it's really hard to keep upright if you're putting your feet down while you're still seated, unless your saddle is crazy low. Generally, it works if you unclip one foot early, hang it down to the side, slow down almost to a stop, then as you stop, lift off the saddle with the clipped in foot (in the 6 o'clock position, where that's at the bottom), drop onto unclipped foot, and point the front wheel slightly towards the side that you keep clipped in (meaning the bike will be less likely to lean to the wrong side). I don't know of a lot of traffic situations where you'd be able to rely on unclipping both sides and doing whatever maneuver you have to to get stopped and off the bike. Practicing stopping this way won't be any harder than what you're doing.

Be sure your pedals are set as loose as they can safely be while you get used to it, and start out unclipping well in advance of a stop or potential stop. I used to unclip going towards most intersections where a stop was likely (I have those pedestrian counters that help), then I'd rest the cleat on top of the pedal and continue going that way. If I was going to make it through, I'd clip back in. If not, I was prepared. Eventually you get more comfortable with it, but sometimes stuff happens anyway.

[Geonz]

I don't have clipless ... but I was surprised to read over at bikejournal.com a whole thread about it being better *not* to get out of the clips when crashing - that the bike takes more of the impact! I can't imagine not wanting to be "Free" if I'm falling... if I go clipless I'll do more research.
I always wondered what I'd do in a fall, knowing that "tuck and roll" is what I should do but also knowing that without practice it is unlikely. Welp, as I launched from the bike I went into automatic pilot for how I entered the water at swim team practice. Fortunately that was with a belly flop designed for maximum surface and minimum impact, so indeed, I had *lots* of road rash on my elbows and hips, but my head was up and I didn't stick out a hand to stop myself; I splayed out my arms to diffuse the impact. Yucky, but no ER. (However, if my nice business partner had not *insisted* that I wear a nice bicycle jersey - and the only clean one had long sleeves - instead of an old T-shirt because Bill was taking me out for a ride and loaning me his fast bicycle, I mihgt have needed to go to dig that gravel out of my elbow. If only his nice, fast bike didn't have such good brakes!)

[amy]

I have to say, all these messages are inspiring me to take Aikido and learn how to fall. I've always wanted to take it. Now, how do I fit in 50 hours of work, yoga, biking, and Aikido?? Oh, and I guess my husband, too. :p Hmmm...