Dealing with a hard decision

[sandra]

We spent the night Sunday night at the Emergency Vets with our 8 year old male poodle pup. $200 and many hours later, it was determined that he has a kidney stone.

He stayed overnight and we picked him up early Monday morning and took him to our regular vet. Several X-rays, hours later, and $100 more, he still has a kidney stone that has not budged. The vet wanted to wait it out and hope he could pass it. He said surgery was the last option because the dog already had congestive heart failure and there's no guarantee that he'd make it through the surgery, plus, with a dog as tiny as he is, the urethra is so small, it is a risky surgery and may not be successful. They could try to flush it back up into the bladder, but the chance of that working and it dissolving are very slim. We'd probably be back in the vet next week with the same problem.

He came home for the night with constant observation. He can barely urinate, but we had to watch to make sure that he was able to go some so that we didn't have to deal with a ruptured bladder. We gave him a special diet last night, we took him out for 5 minutes every hour. I watched with a flashlight hoping he would pass it.

He returned to the vet today and we were told that about the only option was surgery which would be $300 - $500 MORE.

We had some tough decisions to make. He has been an expensive dog already. He is 8 years old and had not been a healthy dog. Just two years ago he had a ruptured salivary gland and a real "people" surgeon was brought in to operate on him. He also has congestive heart failure.

Our son is getting married in 5 months ($$$$) and we have other major expenses coming up. We have cried and agonized about what a good ole dog he is and trying to make a decision. I finally just could not do it and left it to my husband.

After talking to the vet today, dear hubby, soft hearted as he is, said that we thought the best thing to do would be to put the dog to sleep. We were both broken and crushed to make the decision, but we accepted that it was probably the best thing. We are not rich people and just did not feel like we could put close to $1000 in this dog at his age and with all of his health problems already. The vet offered to work with us on a payment plan, but again we would STILL have to pay it and there was no guarantee that he would even make it.

We have lost 2 nights sleep and I had cried all morning. Hubby gave the final word and told them to put him to sleep. It is not a decision we made lightly.

Then the unexpected. The vet called back and said that everyone in the clinic was so upset. They remember Bull from when he has his other surgery. He was such a special case to have a real surgeon operate on him. He had a proposal. He asked for permission to do the surgery and if he could survive and make it through, there was a girl that worked there that wanted Bull.

My husband immediately thought that this was the answer we needed. He felt better that he would not have to be put to sleep. He would have a good home, someone that loved him and now access to free medical care with all of his many conditions.

I, on the other hand, am crushed. It is hard to bear the thought of him with someone else and not here where he was so loved. He has been happy here for 8 years and I don't think he will be as happy in his new home.

We have not signed the paper yet saying that it is OK to give him away. I don't know how people bear the pain of putting a dog to sleep. And now this for some reason feels even harder. I feel like I have failed him.

As I type through tears, I appreciate any kind words or things that I have not thought of in my emotional state.:( Pets can be just like kids.

[OakLeaf]

oh (((((((sandra))))))) hugs

I don't have any advice for you. Each pet is different - making the decision was different for each of our four dogs.

But just, I really feel for you, I know just how horribly painful it is, and sending good vibes to you and Bull.

[mimitabby]

wow, that is a tough one. Do you have visitation rights?

[sandra]

wow, that is a tough one. Do you have visitation rights?

I don't know if I could bear it.

[Zen]

My husband immediately thought that this was the answer we needed. He felt better that he would not have to be put to sleep. He would have a good home, someone that loved him and now access to free medical care with all of his many conditions.

I, on the other hand, am crushed. It is hard to bear the thought of him with someone else and not here where he was so loved. He has been happy here for 8 years and I don't think he will be as happy in his new home.



Sandra, your husband is right.
He will be plenty loved in his new home.
Having just gone through the experience of losing my buddy of 15 years I know what losing a pet is like but if he could still be alive in someone elses care I'd take that option in a second.

[Blueberry]

WOW! Hugs to both you and your DH. That's a *really* tough situation.

I have to say that I really don't think your vet should have put you in that situation. I don't understand why he would have to go to a new home for them to do the surgery for free. It doesn't sound like the person who would be getting him would be footing the bill, or really doing any of the surgery. I would call the vet himself and explain that you really appreciate what they're doing, but that you don't see why they couldn't do it free or for a reduced price for you. I just think he's put you in a worse situation emotionally than you would have been in putting him down.

As an aside, we've been through 2 surgeries with a kitty with the same problem. One of the things they tried (which did help some) was to give our kitty a serious muscle relaxer to try to make it easier for him to pass the stone. It didn't work, but it did make it more comfortable until they could do the surgery (we did the flush thing and it didn't work, so we had to do the full surgery).

CA

[KSH]

I'm so sorry to hear about your sweet little pup being so sick.

Gosh, this is a really hard situation.

Let's see...

1) Someone is willing to pay for the dogs surgery, but they get to keep the dog when the surgery is done? I think that is nice of that person, but somewhat cruel as well.

2) You have him put to sleep and he doesn't get the surgery.

Well, think about what is right for him, no matter how much it hurts you. What would be right for him is to give him an opportunity to live... even if that means you won't be his Mom anymore.

I had to make a hard decision like this a year ago. I was never home and my dog was acting out. She was also sick and I couldn't afford all the vet bills. I finally gave her to a new home, because I knew it was best for her. I cried my eyes out, but only for one night. After that I told myself I wasn't allowed to cry anymore, because I did what was best for her.... I did the right thing.

You see, the right thing doesn't always feel good to do... even if it's the right decision.

I wish you the best of luck in deciding what to do.

[KSH]

I have to say that I really don't think your vet should have put you in that situation. I don't understand why he would have to go to a new home for them to do the surgery for free. It doesn't sound like the person who would be getting him would be footing the bill, or really doing any of the surgery. I would call the vet himself and explain that you really appreciate what they're doing, but that you don't see why they couldn't do it free or for a reduced price for you. I just think he's put you in a worse situation emotionally than you would have been in putting him down.


I guess I have that question too. Would that person pay for the surgery, or would it be done for free and they get to keep the dog?

See, that's not right.

[sandra]

We have another dog, another poodle, but this was my special dog. He was the cuddly, loveable one. We have been through so much together.

This vet has animals walking around it it all the time. Pets of the workers, resuce dogs, etc. My two dogs were scheduled for grooming this Thursday. If I ever go there and he is there walking around, it sure will be painful.

[sandra]

I have not talked to the vet. I'm not sure if the surgery would be free or if she would just get a discounted rate. I do know they have a hard time putting any dog to sleep there, so I'm sure it was hard for the vet too.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Sandra,
I really feel for you. I know how hard this is.

Here's what could happen:
1) Bull could be put to sleep now.
2) Bull could have the surgery successfully and have a new loving home for his remaining life and receive great medical care (at least until some other ailment does him in).
3) Bull could have an unsuccessful surgery and not make it through.

What would be the best thing for Bull?

Seems to me all 3 options involve Bull not suffering a lengthy great deal of pain. That's good.
So then...if you were Bull which option would you choose?

If I were Bull, I would choose option #2. :cool:
Option #2 also has the advantage of not costing you any more.

One other thing to consider:
Any of your options are going to involve you crying a lot and feeling absolutely miserable. So you really can't avoid that aspect of it. So with that in mind, try to think of what is best for Bull, not for you.

I'm just trying to help you see the situation from a more objective angle of not being inside it. Believe me, I know how heartbreaking it all is.

Sending hugs and good vibes out to you and yours.....

[Blueberry]

I guess I have that question too. Would that person pay for the surgery, or would it be done for free and they get to keep the dog?

See, that's not right.

Yeah - my impression was that he was just doing it because his staff asked him to and one of them wanted to take him home. I agree with you that perhaps letting him try, and going to a new home would be best (as opposed to putting him down) - but this *isn't* the situation where you can't/won't take care of your pet. I understand that when a neglected animal comes in, but this *clearly* isn't that situation.

I just really think the vet is wrong here. I'd definitely change vets after this is all over.

[KSH]

We have another dog, another poodle, but this was my special dog. He was the cuddly, loveable one. We have been through so much together.

This vet has animals walking around it it all the time. Pets of the workers, resuce dogs, etc. My two dogs were scheduled for grooming this Thursday. If I ever go there and he is there walking around, it sure will be painful.

So, is there anyway to wait it out to see if he passes it or not? Can you get him some pain meds until he does?

All I know is that vets are like car mechanics... they give the worst case scenario most of the time and then give you a huge bill to pay so the "worse case scenario" doesn't happen.

My friends had a vet operate on their cat, which ended up being $2,000... to find out NOTHING was wrong with the cat.

That's just one example.

Have you gotten a second opinion? Kidney stones are bad, but maybe he can pass them at some point? Isn't it worth a shot?

[onimity]

Hi Sandra,

That sounds like a heartbreaking decision. I think that if you cannot afford to provide medical care for your dog and there is someone that can provide that for him, you have to do the right thing for the dog and let him go with the person that can provide what he needs. I know what you mean, though, my cat got very sick when I was unemployed and getting ready to move across the country. My other cat landed himself in the pet-ER a month later. Pets can be very, very expensive.

But I think that the better option if you cannot make it work financially is for the dog would be to go with someone that can keep him alive and healthy. That's not failing him, that's selflessly doing the right thing for the dog you love. I am sure that the girl that wants to adopt him will love him very much and take good care of him.

Anne

[Tuckervill]

Oh, you poor dear. This is one of those things that requires the wisdom of Solomon, and I'm once again falling short.

I do believe it is a rather cruel trick to have to give him up to save his quality of life. It would have been better if they had just not told you--spirited him away and not given the fatal push.

I think Lisa's right--isn't it about what's humane from Bull's point of view? With his other health problems, is the surgery even the right thing? I don't think we can know.

I know one thing. Regret is poison. Don't do something you know you'll regret. I realize he's in a lot of pain. Maybe you can just delay the decision for a while--keep Bull comfortable and happy in the meantime with whatever means necessary. Decide to give it a day or two more. It may become obvious, like it was for my little Percy back in March.

{{{Sandra}}}

Karen

[sandra]

I just called my husband to ask him this. He said the vet did not say he would do it for free, that's just the impression he got. The vet did say that none of them wanted to see him put down and there were two girls that were willing to take him.

I guess we would also be putting him in a bad position. WE are willing to take him, yet, it is not fair for us to say that we want his services free or a reduced price.

[sandra]

He has been on pain medicine and muscle relaxers since Sunday night. He was comfortable and wagging his tail happy this morning. The stone had not budged so it didn't appear that he was going to pass it.

We have not gotten a second opinion. We totally trust this vet because he was the second opinion when we were about to put him down two years ago because of the salivary gland problem. The "people" surgeon was called in when no other vets thought they could handle it.

[KSH]

I just called my husband to ask him this. He said the vet did not say he would do it for free, that's just the impression he got. The vet did say that none of them wanted to see him put down and there were two girls that were willing to take him.

I guess we would also be putting him in a bad position. WE are willing to take him, yet, it is not fair for us to say that we want his services free or a reduced price.

Well, you might want to go to another vet. Another vet might give you a more positive diagnosis or maybe not charge as much for the surgery.

I think you also need to speak with this vet and really figure out what is going on behind the scenes. So there are two people willing to take the dog... and both of them can afford the surgery? Or are they getting the surgery at a reduced rate.

It just seems a bit cruel for them to say they will pay for it if one of them gets to keep the dog. Anyone who is a dog owner would know how this would break your heart.

[Blueberry]

Sandra-

Point taken, but I still don't see why you shouldn't get be offered the same financial deal (whatever it is) that he is giving his staff. You've raised him, cared for him, taken him through other surgeries, and loved him. It just doesn't seem right....You're doing what we all do with pets (because we have to), which is try to balance prognosis with pain and cost of treatment. Changing one of those variables (cost of treatment) for someone else who would get to keep him just doesn't seem right....

I do think the other decision is whether you want him to have the surgery at all....My kitty was in good shape when we did it, but it *was* a painful and difficult surgery (think pain med *injections* for a week or so).

CA

[sandra]

Counting the ER Vet, we HAVE seen two vets. They both have said the same thing. I have read online, plus the experience of CA_in_NC, all seem to point to the same option.

[onimity]

I've heard about cases like this before, where essentially the vet is willing to do reduced price (usually) surgery where the person adopting the pet agrees to take on the medical care of the pet and not put the pet down except in cases where the pet has a fatal condition and the intent is to relieve suffering. When I adopted my (healthy) cat, the agreement I signed said that I would return him to the shelter rather than put him down if he was not terminally injured/ill. I know it seems cruel, but I think that the intent is to ensure that the pet lives a long and healthy life and will not be put down if more costly care becomes necessary. But from the perspective of the owner giving up the pet, I agree, it is very hard.

"I do believe it is a rather cruel trick to have to give him up to save his quality of life. It would have been better if they had just not told you--spirited him away and not given the fatal push."

I read about a case like this, actually, where the original owner found out and sued. I believe they had given them concrete powder or something in lieu of the pet's ashes. I think it's better to be honest about it personally...

Anne

[PinkPilot]

For some reason, I don't think they're trying to say that at all. I think his staff members are saying that they are willing to incur the expense at whatever rate for the surgery and to commit to incurring the expense for the rest of his life because they love Bull so much. I think they are heartbroken, too, and understand that sandra can't continue to incur expenses even though she loves him dearly, and feel that they can afford to look after him now in much the same way as parents who knowingly adopt a disabled child.

I had a dog who lived with me her entire life from 8 weeks until just shy of her 16th birthday and she had a lot of disabilities in the last few years and it can get very expensive. I know how heartbreaking this is. But, Ruffian loved the vet and his staff and, had I been so horribly unfortunate to have had to make a decision like this when she was 8, I would have been extremely grateful to my vet's staff. I knew them all very well.



It just seems a bit cruel for them to say they will pay for it if one of them gets to keep the dog. Anyone who is a dog owner would know how this would break your heart.

[Blueberry]

I would normally agree regarding someone who can/is willing to take on the financial responsibility for a pet.

HOWEVER, this pet belongs to someone who has done WAY more for him that most people would (and I could be wrong, but I think if there were a better/surer prognosis, would do it again here). This borderline is a case about relieving suffering and, sadly, balancing cost with quality of life/pain/future prognosis. I really wonder what those shelters would say if the pet required treatment in the 10's of thousands of dollars - I doubt they'd be able to fund it should an animal be returned. It's sad, but it is a line that sometimes has to be drawn. I just don't think this is the same situation. Sandra still has another pup, and this vet would presumptively keep being compensated for services provided to that other pet. She's not abandoning either one or failing to provide for their medical care - she is trying to make a heart wrenching decision, and her vet is putting her in an even worse situation.

Just my 2 cents.

[sandra]

HOWEVER, this pet belongs to someone who has done WAY more for him that most people would (and I could be wrong, but I think if there were a better/surer prognosis, would do it again here).

You are not wrong. One part of me would pay the money for the surgery, knowing it was a risk. Knowing he may not even make it. Not knowing what the next thing might be. And in a way we have already done that. This is the next thing.

But the logical part of me says "how much more, when do you stop? We have certain obligations that cannot be changed. Things that we have committed to that are not an optional, repair work on the house, our son's wedding...."

Then the emotional side of me says you have just spent money on other things but you draw the line here!" But believe me, we have spent more than most people spend on a typical pet. He has had more than his share of issues and it feels somewhat like living waiting for the other shoe to drop with him.

Back and forth. I guess this is normal.

It's so hard to finally draw the line and not feel remorse along with all of the sadness.

[sbctwin]

{{{Sandra}}}
It is a difficult decision you are faced with. I had a horrible time when I finally had to make the decision to let Kallie (my kitty) go. Her vet bills were very high and I didn't want to make a decision about her based on money. But, there comes a time when it does come down to money.

I did everything I could for Kallie, but in the end, my vet told me I made the right decision because, though for a few months she seemed to be on the mend, the last two weeks of her life were agonizing for her and for me watching her trying to breathe.

If someone told me that there was an oxygen cage available for Kallie that she could use at anytime, but she would have to be moved to that place, I would have taken it. I would rather know that tail wagging was wagging for someone, even if not for me, than to have put Kallie to sleep.

We, who are fur-guardians know the painful decision you have to make. Peace be with you....

[sandra]

My sweet boy Bull.

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb12/Sandradav/IMG_1350.jpg

[Blueberry]

Awww...Sandra...he's adorable....

[blueskies]

Sandra,

My heart goes out to you. This vet has put you in a very difficult spot with this offer. I've heard of one other vet making this kind of offer, and in that case he was going to perform the surgery for free if the cat was given up for adoption. In that case, the owner really couldn't afford any care for her cat beyond food, and so it was heart-breaking, but sort of understandable.

In your case, this vet has seen you go to great lengths, with time, care, affection, and money, to take care of Bull. If he's going to do the surgery for free or at a reduced rate, on the condition that you give Bull to one of the office workers, that is just cruel. Why doesn't their compassion extend to you?

So sorry that you're going through this. We also have a little dog with a lot of health problems, and I know how tough these treatment decisions are.

Hugs,
Blueskies

[mtbdarby]

Wow. I also have 2 dogs with health problems and just lost one of them due to the same issue. I choose not to have the xrays or surgery and instead switched them to an all natural diet. This did help greatly until the end - turned out she had a tumor and she went quickly.

Anyway, please talk to the vet with dh. Ask him to provide all the specifics and alternatives on the surgery, adoption, costs etc. If it turns out it's for free or reduced cost but it means giving him up let him know how unfair and unethical you feel that is (if that's what you feel). If the girls at the vets office are footing the bill and willing to pick up future expenses then it's a different story and your very tough decision to make. I would personally struggle with separating my two dogs and did. But financial decisions are a reality and that's why I decided not to have the xrays with Xena - if it was kidney stones it meant surgery and I'd already spent $700 on her (which was my son's school tuition).

Keep us posted. No one will judge your decision and we've hear for you no matter what happens. Spend as much time with that adorable dog regardless and enjoy the time you have. ((((hugs)))

[rij73]

Oh, Sandra... I never heard of any choice so agonizing dealing with a pet. I think I can imagine how you feel. There is no way I could let me dog go live with someone else...

If they are so heartbroken, why don't they do the surgery for free or split the cost with you or something??? To offer to do it for free but only if you give up Bull seems cruel to me although I'm sure it's not their intention. It puts you in a terrible position.

He is YOUR DOG. You are the only one qualified to decide whether the humane thing to do is put him to sleep. Putting him through surgery and then sending him to a stranger is not fair to him or to you. He will not be happy... He will be in pain from surgery and confused as to why he is not home. I think it would a terrible thing to do.

We will all support you whatever you decide, but I hope you understand and agree with what I am saying. It may just be poor Bull's time to go, and you will know it better than anyone. If you decide that saving him is worth a try and is not putting him through too much, I would encourage you to not let only the money stop you. You might feel guilty about it afterwards.

Best of luck! Big HUG!!!

[sandra]

Hubby and I have sat and cried for the last hour and been over every option at least 10 more times back and forth. If it is possible, I think it is harder on my hubby than it is on me.

He does not feel that the vet intended any harm or cruelty. He thinks the he was just doing what he could do to save the dog. We know how hard it is for them to put one down. We have seen another female vet there crying and unable to talk because she had just had to put one down.

Hubby just left. I couldn't go. I just can't go there. He is going to talk with the vet. He also took his bed. If he goes home with someone else, I want him to have something familiar. His bed. I would have sent toys, but he doesn't play with any toys. He is just a lap dog.

[Triskeliongirl]

Hi Sandra, I am so soorry you have to go through this, but if it were me, I think I would be grateful that someone was willing to assume the cost of caring for an animal that I loved and could no longer afford to care for. I don't think its cruel, you already made the hard decision to draw the line financially. You shouldn't feel guilty about that, we all have limited resources and priorities, and taking care of home and family should come first. But knowing the dog is sickly, and its probably not just this one surgery, I think you should rest easy knowing that someone is willing to take on the financial burden. What financial arrangments he makes with his office staff is really between him and them, I am sure he is giving them a break, but it's probably part of their compensation pacakge (many people get discounts where they work), so maybe that is the best situation for a dog that is likely to require further expensive care. Rest easy, knowing this hard decision gives him the best gift you can, LIFE.

[sandra]

This has been comforting to hear all of the different thoughts. Thank you so much. I'm glad to be a part of TE!

[rij73]

I hope I didn't sound too harsh. Of course you should do what you think is right, and it really isn't easy...

Personally, I still think the vet is wrong to put you in this position. Do they do this to everyone who decides to have their dog put to sleep? It's such an agonizing decision to make, that once you make it, it should be final. The vet shouldn't put you on an emotional roller coaster. It's basically like their saying that you don't know what's best so they are taking the dog away from you...

Again, big HUG... I can't imagine what you are going through.

[sandra]

Bull had a stone the size of a bb and never would have passed it. The vet said that the surgery went well and he was doing OK. The vet said he was going to take him home with him tonight.

Hubby told the vet it was the hardest thing he had ever had to do to which the vet vet replied "I couldn't put him down"....

I'm glad he is doing good and in good hands.

[rij73]

This will be my last post here because I don't want my point of view to make it harder on you... Seems the decision has been made. I'll just say in closing that if the vet just couldn't put him down, then he should have offered to do the surgery for free and give him back to you. Otherwise he should have done what you, the kind and thoughtful owners of the dog, had decided. I believe he is very wrong and unprofessional to take Bull home with him.

[Blueberry]

Sandra-

I'm so glad he made it through!! I think the vet is just taking him home for the night, right??? Any more news on where he goes after that??

Hugs to you!!

CA

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Sandra,
You and your husband need to be strong now and be happy that Bull is doing well.
This was a complex situation where one could look at it from various viewpoints and each viewpoint has it's own "right" and "wrong" angles. It's easy to see it in a negative way, but will that actually make the situation better for either you or your dog? Every viewpoint is valid.

I think the important thing is to be happy that your dog is going to be getting the best of medical care from now on and will certainly continue to be a well loved doggie as well. You did right by him.

[sandra]

yes, he is taking him home for the night because he had a serious surgery and he wants to make sure he is cared for and OK tonight.

[ilima]

I guess I have that question too. Would that person pay for the surgery, or would it be done for free and they get to keep the dog?

See, that's not right.

It is right, though. Even though it hurts. Because more expenses are bound to come up. The woman who will adopt him knows this. Well, the OP should ensure the woman is prepared for this. Poodles generally have long life spans; my neighbor's died at 15 and they can live to be older. This dog may have many more years left.

I know it's not an easy decision. I have two 13-year-old dogs and financially I simply don't know what I would do if they needed something expensive. One of them did have a melanoma removed a couple years back and I always fear it will return leaving me with a very difficult decision to make.

[sandra]

There are many factors that I didn't even discuss. With congestive heart failure already and all of his other problems, I don't think he would have a really long life span, but there is no way of knowing.

We were trying to hold off surgery because the vet had explained that there was a chance that after the surgery he could have urethral stricture ~ scar tissue that forms and essentially having the same consequenses as the kidney stone ~ blockage. Then what? More surgery? We didn't even get that far.

He took Lasix for his CHF. For years we have worked our schedule around him being able to take his pill and us being home to let him outside. It is difficult to plan to go anywhere for any length of time because pet sitters/boarders are not able to stay with him and let him in and out constantly for 3 -4 hours.

No one wanted to see him put to sleep. We have to believe that we made the best decision for his future and medical care.

[Triskeliongirl]

This will be my last post here because I don't want my point of view to make it harder on you... Seems the decision has been made. I'll just say in closing that if the vet just couldn't put him down, then he should have offered to do the surgery for free and give him back to you. Otherwise he should have done what you, the kind and thoughtful owners of the dog, had decided. I believe he is very wrong and unprofessional to take Bull home with him.

I really have to respectfully disagree with you. Even if he did do this surgery for free, what about the next one? He found someone willing to adopt this dog, despite all his medical issues, AFTER Sandra and her family agreed they could not do anymore. That is the kindest thing he could have done. And, why should he have done the surgery for free? Do you work for free?

[Aggie_Ama]

(((Sandra))) I think you made the right decision. One of my little Schnauzers is a retired breeder with all sorts of ailments. The medical bills can be overwhelming and many times I ask myself if this is last time I can come up with it. I should have known the breeder was lying about what she had been through. My mother being an animal lover but I realist has guided me to asking the vet how much and just honestly saying I can't (she went blind but I couldn't afford the doggie optometrist to tell me why). Although it hurts someone who knows what they are facing took him in. He can continue to be loved but you can stop having to wonder "How much more can we take?"

One a side note about the stones. Little dogs can dissolve them but if not they can't really pass them. My other Schnauzer (all 7 pounds of her) had one removed this year to the tune of $900!! But when I saw the thing I could see why she couldn't pass it, they look like lava stones and her's was the size of a thumbnail.

[makbike]

Sandra,

I worked in a clinic for years as a part-time assistant and as you can tell staff members become attached to client's animals, a bond forms.

The first year I worked in the clinic a man brought his great dand puppy in (6months old) with a broken femur and broken metatarsals. Along with the broken bones the puppy (Gus) has a massive bone infection. The vet and staff set about working on Gus to beat back the infection and over the course of several days bonds were formed. One day out the blue the owner came in and announced he would not spend any more money on Gus and he wanted him PTS :eek: My best friend, the attending vet, was crushed for she had fallen in love with Gus but could not take him home (she was renting at th time). After some thought I asked if I could adopt Gus - I would pay off the owner's current bill if he would sign the dog over to me. The owner agreed, the bill was taken care of by the owner of the clinic (he was a kind and compassionate man) and I came home with a large puppy. Gus was renamed Squire and he grew into a lanky, limping great dane. The two of us started visiting a local nurning home and hospital to cheer residents and patients up while they were sick or confined to bed. Squire had a short life, only 5 years, before bone cancer was discovered in his front leg. I had him PTS and he was surrounded by all the clinic staff - he was so loved and had touched so many lives during his short stay on Earth.

Please take heart in the fact that Bull will be loved a lot in his new home and by those at the clinic. You have made a very tough decision but one which will translate only into good things many times over for Bull, yourself, and the staff at the clinic.

[Triskeliongirl]

Sandra, rest easy tonight knowing that Bull is ALIVE, and someone is willing to continue to provide for his medical care. Of course you did the right thing.

[onimity]

Sandra,

I feel so badly for you but am happy that Bull got his surgery and is doing well.

I had a friend that was driving one evening and saw a kitten that had been hit by a car. He was still alive but badly injured so she took him to an emergency clinic. They contacted the owner (on his collar) and she was unable to pay for the surgery to save his life; she was heartbroken, but said the kitten would have to be put down.

My friend was willing to adopt him and pay for his care. Because of the situation the Dr. donated his time, but my friend still had to pay for the costs: anesthesia, operating room, xrays, iv, medication, months of follow up visits, etc. etc. etc. I would assume that the person adopting Bull is going to pay for his surgery and follow-up medical care, or someone is...surgery is expensive even without the cost of the surgeon. My cousin worked for a vet and brought home a couple of animals in similar situations, the vet agreed not to make a profit on the services but she paid for the procedures/medicine/care/food/etc.

I find it hard to criticize the Dr. here, personally. In an ideal world he could volunteer his services and provide free care for all animals, but that's not a sustainable business. I think that the next best thing is to help the animal out and put him with someone that can take on his medical costs. It takes a very loving person to take in a sick animal and I am sure that he'll be well-loved. But Sandra, it takes a special person to do the right thing for an animal you love too, especially when it is so painful. I am thinking of you and wishing you weren't going through this.

Anne

[ilima]

I am very sorry you are in this situation. I know it's not fair.


We spent the night Sunday night at the Emergency Vets with our 8 year old male poodle pup. $200 and many hours later, it was determined that he has a kidney stone.

He stayed overnight and we picked him up early Monday morning and took him to our regular vet. Several X-rays, hours later, and $100 more, he still has a kidney stone that has not budged. The vet wanted to wait it out and hope he could pass it. He said surgery was the last option because the dog already had congestive heart failure and there's no guarantee that he'd make it through the surgery, plus, with a dog as tiny as he is, the urethra is so small, it is a risky surgery and may not be successful. They could try to flush it back up into the bladder, but the chance of that working and it dissolving are very slim. We'd probably be back in the vet next week with the same problem.

He came home for the night with constant observation. He can barely urinate, but we had to watch to make sure that he was able to go some so that we didn't have to deal with a ruptured bladder. We gave him a special diet last night, we took him out for 5 minutes every hour. I watched with a flashlight hoping he would pass it.

He returned to the vet today and we were told that about the only option was surgery which would be $300 - $500 MORE.

We had some tough decisions to make. He has been an expensive dog already. He is 8 years old and had not been a healthy dog. Just two years ago he had a ruptured salivary gland and a real "people" surgeon was brought in to operate on him. He also has congestive heart failure.

Our son is getting married in 5 months ($$$$) and we have other major expenses coming up. We have cried and agonized about what a good ole dog he is and trying to make a decision. I finally just could not do it and left it to my husband.

After talking to the vet today, dear hubby, soft hearted as he is, said that we thought the best thing to do would be to put the dog to sleep. We were both broken and crushed to make the decision, but we accepted that it was probably the best thing. We are not rich people and just did not feel like we could put close to $1000 in this dog at his age and with all of his health problems already. The vet offered to work with us on a payment plan, but again we would STILL have to pay it and there was no guarantee that he would even make it.

We have lost 2 nights sleep and I had cried all morning. Hubby gave the final word and told them to put him to sleep. It is not a decision we made lightly.

Then the unexpected. The vet called back and said that everyone in the clinic was so upset. They remember Bull from when he has his other surgery. He was such a special case to have a real surgeon operate on him. He had a proposal. He asked for permission to do the surgery and if he could survive and make it through, there was a girl that worked there that wanted Bull.

My husband immediately thought that this was the answer we needed. He felt better that he would not have to be put to sleep. He would have a good home, someone that loved him and now access to free medical care with all of his many conditions.

I, on the other hand, am crushed. It is hard to bear the thought of him with someone else and not here where he was so loved. He has been happy here for 8 years and I don't think he will be as happy in his new home.

We have not signed the paper yet saying that it is OK to give him away. I don't know how people bear the pain of putting a dog to sleep. And now this for some reason feels even harder. I feel like I have failed him.

As I type through tears, I appreciate any kind words or things that I have not thought of in my emotional state.:( Pets can be just like kids.

[nic840]

I know there is no right answer that would work for everyone. Just wanted you to know that its alright to be frustrated, sad, angry and happy all at the same time. Bull is still alive, and it sounds like he will be loved and well taken care of.

I love my animals like they are my children but to go into financial debt because of them is a tough decision to make. I am sure I will have to make it someday and weigh it against the quality of life of the animal.

I just want you to know that my thoughts are with you. I am glad you have your husband to share this with you and you made the decsion together.

[sundial]

Sandra, I know I'm just now checking this thread, but IMOM came to mind immediately. If you qualify, this organization will assist you with the vet bills so that you don't have to consider euthanizing your little guy--or give him up for that matter.

http://www.imom.org/

Hope this helps and I'm sending you lots of hugs and slurpy kisses from my 4 furkids.

Cathy, Kali, Niki, Jodi and Luke

[LBTC]

{{{{{Sandra}}}}}}

There's a whole lot of TE critters (my own Yogi, Norton and Ted for sure) at the Rainbow Bridge who are doing a little happy dance that Bull gets to stay here for awhile longer.

You followed your heart the best you know how. Do what you can to rejoice that Bull has another chance. (he is adorable)

Sending butterflies to lift your spirit, to help you see the joy and beauty that has happened here, to help you find your peace, and for you to send along to Bull so he know he is still loved by you, too.

Hugs,
~T~

[smilingcat]

Dear Sandra,

I know you are hurting for having to give up Bull. And he misses you too. The thing we have to remind ourselves in situations like this is that someone was there for him. To take care of him. And to love him... He has an angel looking over him. In time, Bull will have recovered and he will be in a home, loved just as he was loved in your family.

Sometimes the best gift you can give to a loved one is to let them go. Let go sometimes means putting them to sleep so they don't suffer. let them go sometimes means to release the animal back to the wild, to fly free in the wild to run... And here it means for you to adopt bull out to a new family who is willing to give him a second chance at life.

Through it all, I understand your hurt. And my sympathy for your loss...
And after a good cry, please realize that you did the right thing. Bull is recovering and no longer in physical pain. And he will be loved.

my sympathy,
Smilingcat

[sandra]

UPDATE Thank you all for your expressions of support and comfort. After a day of agonizing and another night of little sleep, we just can't do it. We are going to get Bull and bring him home.

I just can't bear the thought of him with someone else, no matter how much they love him. We have loved him and cared for him for 8 years. He needs to be where he is already happy. This may not be the best thing for us financially, but it is the best thing for us emotionally and I know it is the best thing for Bull.

I don't know about the next thing or what we will do at that time. We'll deal with tomorrow when tomorrow comes.

I apologize for working through this with all of you, but you have helped more than you can imagine. You have helped me come to this conclusion and I think in a way, that's what message boards are all about, people with common interests coming together which branches out to other areas of our lives.

I'm up and ready for work early so that I can get finished and get off and hopefully go pick him up. Much gratitude....Sandra

[Blueberry]

Sandra-

That's wonderful news!!!!

Please don't apologize for asking for help - I've asked for advice on non-bike related topics here many times, and have been astounded by the wisdom that others have to offer.

Hugs,

CA

[sbctwin]

{{{{{Sandra}}}}}}

[rij73]

I couldn't stop thinking of your situation last night. It made me wonder what I would do!

I'm SO HAPPY that you are keeping Bull. I agree that it's the right thing for him and the right thing emotionally, and if you are a true animal lover, you know that that trumps finances. You guys will make it work out.

By the way, consider pet health insurance. There are a few companies, and they are great. Premiums are super low, and they will reimburse you a lot of the cost of any veterinary treatments. That might be your answer for what the future brings. Hudson (my dog) has insurance precisely because I never want to have to make a decision about his life based on money. We use: http://www.petshealthplan.com/

Oh, and Triskeliongirl, I see where you are coming from completely. I might have misunderstood, but my impression was that the vet *was* going to do the surgery for free and then give the dog to his employee. From the way Sandra told the story, it sounded like since the Bull was going to be with someone who worked there, he would get *free* care... not that the new owner was really taking on the financial responsibility. I might have misread the story.

Anyway, doesn't really matter now! :D

[sandra]

rij73, I'm sorry that I gave that impression. I really don't know how the vet and the employee had worked out the financial issues. It was not my place to ask and really none of my business.

I made an assumption that he would have better access to medical care, but I really don't know that. I was upset and probably made many wrong assumptions. I am sorry if I misled anyone.

[sandra]

OH my gosh. I just read about the petshealthplan.com. I'm so glad to hear that you have had a good experience with them. Have you actually used it? I wonder if you can get it if they have any pre-existing conditions.

That is THE solution. I called my husband. We are going to do that if he is eligible. We can afford his routine care, grooming, special diet, medications and all that. It is these big things that throw you for a loop.

[sundial]

Sandra, I am so happy for you and your decision. I know you have agonized over Bull's dilemma and you have weighed your options. I don't know......I guess if he were my dog, I would rather have him with me to the end rather than send him off to a loving home.

I'm sending healing thoughts for Bull and hugs to you. :)

Cathy

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Wow Sandra, you have been on an emotional roller coaster!

Of course the women on TE support whatever decision you make. :)
Keep us posted on what happens next.

xo Lisa

[LBTC]

I've never seen such happy butterflies! Sandra, that's wonderful news!

Many hugs and healing butterflies for Bull,
~T~

[Triskeliongirl]

Hi Sandra. What a happy ending! Please keep us posted as to how he is doing. But do know, that we understand and support whatever decision you make. The good news here is that Bull wasn't put to sleep and was given the gift of life. I so hope he qualifies for pet insurance. Thanks for much for posting that information. It will make things easier for lots of people. -e

[sandra]

Our vet worked last night at the Emergency clinic, so he is not in today. That's where he took Bull last night to observe him. (I didn't know this yesterday. We just though he was taking him home.) I've talked with the other vet and explained that we can't handle it. The response was "well, he needs to go home with you then".

She said he was such a special dog. Little dogs are prone to more issues and yes, he has had more than his share of problems, but they have a hard time putting them down unless it was life threating. His issue was serious, but he may recover. She thought that he was such a friendly dog and would be happy anywhere as long as he was being held.

I understand both positions. Their position (and I cannot ask them to work for free or even reduced rates) and my position.

She said we could certainly work on a payment plan, that she has known us and we have been good patients for so long.

He was sitting right there with her. :) She said that she works the Emergency clinic tonight and she had planned to take him with her tonight. He may be able to come home today, it all depends on if he is urinating and all is doing ok. We are to talk again at 4 p.m. and see.

[onimity]

Hi Sandra,

That is so wonderful! I think it is a good decision for you and Bull. It is clear that you love one another. It is sometimes necessary to go through these things to realize how important the things we love are.

If the insurance doesn't work out maybe what I did would help you? I read a financial planning article that listed the average cost of a cat at $10,000 over 10 years (it was higher for a dog, but I don't recall the exact figure, maybe 15K) I just figured that the best option was to put that money aside, vet bills or no, so that I'd be ready for the unexpected. Minus food, litter, etc. it seems to work out to roughly what the insurance plans would cost.

It makes me really happy to think that your little dog is doing well and will be home again with you soon.

Anne

[Ninabike]

Sandra, so happy you can have your little "Bull" back with you. All the best.

[Triskeliongirl]

I am so happy that Bull is doing well, and that you are at peace with your final decision. In life we have to prioritize how we spend our money. Clearly this taught you that Bull is important enough to you to make him a priority financially. I hope the insurance works out, but if not, consider simply buying LESS STUFF. You may be doing this already, but right now our priority is sending both our children simultaneously to elite New Enlgand Colleges. This is a huge finanaical burden, but we believe it is important for our family. So we cut our budget in other ways. We eat out less. We cook nice dinners at home (from fresh unprocessed ingredients) in double servings so we have nice lunchs to pack for work the next day. We ride our bikes to work (no gas and its good for us too!), or car pool if the weather is too bad. We take less expensive vacations. Like, we visited our kids at school last week, but stayed in our daughter's dorm room instead of a hotel. I lost a lot of weight recently so I have had to replace my wardrobe, but I am limiting the amount of clothes I buy to a small number of pieces that I love and are on sale/coupon, and I do laundry more frequently. Just last night the temptation to buy another cycling jacket hit, and I said, no, I can layer under the one I have for colder weather riding and still be fine.

There is a tremendous pressure in our society culture to consume, so we just have to choose carefully what services and goods are most important to us, and we can have what is MOST important to us.

Warm wishes headed your way for Bull's continued recovery.

[sandra]

Triskeliongirl, everything you wrote is so correct. That's also part of the problem. We were already trying to do this but probably not as furiously as we should have been.

We don't eat out, we don't take vacations, etc. At our age we are staring at retirement and we have tried to plan. But, just last week I wanted the new mixte and GOT it, but did I really need it? No, I already had one bike. It didn't seem like a bad idea at the time because it was not expensive. It is a good reminder that several small things all added together can cover a large thing.

Thanks for the reminder.

[rij73]

Hi Sandra... Yes I have actually used Hudson's health plan! They commonly cover 80% of the average cost of procedures (not necessary exactly what your vet charges you). In some cases, your vet may charge less than what they budget for a procedure, though. Your dog's pre-existing conditions probably wouldn't be covered, but any future conditions that develop would be. There are also other plans. VPI is one, and PetCare is another. Do some research... it's probably worth it!

[trickytiger]

This will be my last post here because I don't want my point of view to make it harder on you... Seems the decision has been made. I'll just say in closing that if the vet just couldn't put him down, then he should have offered to do the surgery for free and give him back to you. Otherwise he should have done what you, the kind and thoughtful owners of the dog, had decided. I believe he is very wrong and unprofessional to take Bull home with him.

I apologize in advance.

Are you serious? You would rather that the dog DIE than be taken care of? Who are any of you to demand that the vet offer free services? And where in any of this was it stated that the clinic workers got anything for free? It seems like many of you have just assumed that and ran with it.

I realize this is a tough choice, as a pet owner myself, and as someone who is getting rather creative with money in order to achieve some goals. However. When faced with the option of ending your pet's life versus letting someone pay for and care for your beloved dog, I think the second option is infinitely better. In both cases, you no longer have your dog. The difference? In the second case, your dog has another shot at life. And, it sounds like the clinic workers are caring people who would probably let Sandra see Bull. Please don't heap abuse on the vet- he or she is doing their job. And, vets have to eat too- and pay student loans back!

[sandra]

It is all my fault! I'm the one that in my very emotional state accidentally said "free" in my post with regards to his healthcare. I really didn't have any way of knowing this and that was a wrong assumption on my part and wrong use of words, but AGAIN, I was upset.

I never wanted this thread to turn into a disagreement among members. I appreciate the different thoughts and respect that everyone has their own opinion. It's hard to know what I would have done until I was faced with it. But please, it's going to all be OK.

[Blueberry]

Many vets can and do offer reduced/free services in certain cases (and especially to their employees).

The ABA model rules of professional responsibility says that I have an ethical obligation to provide 50 hours of pro bono work to folks who can't pay for my services (I'm an attorney). Lots of licensed professions have similar obligations. So yes, professionals do sometimes perform free work for folks who can't afford it - some because it's the right thing, some because a governing board says they should. Yep - I have student loans to pay back. Yep - I have bills to pay. Yep - I have to eat.

As Sandra said, we don't know what the situation with the vet tech was - I was just concerned about the vet putting a long time client in a tough ethical situation when he had the power to stop it. I don't deal with life and death situations much, but I've written off thousands of dollars in fees to keep folks from being in a bad situation. And yes, I sleep well at night (if not in quite as nice a house). Sorry to those I offended by suggesting that the vet consider what I've regularly done.

[Tri Girl]

Oh, Sandra. What a roller coaster ride you've been on.
I'm glad that Bull is coming home with you. I'm sure he's glad, too. You made the right decision. Be at peace with that. There'll always be unexpected expenses in life, but you did what you had to do. Don't feel guilty about the mixte either- you should be able to buy the things you want. That's what we work so very hard for every day. To be able to enjoy life.

I'm glad Bull will be staying with you!!! Pet him from all of us when you see him again!

[sandra]

He's home and doing good. He will be on a special diet for the rest of his life.

No discounts, but that's ok. We are happy to have him home. :)

[Blueberry]

*so far* the special diet has worked for our kitty. He had the opposite kind of stone from most cats, so his food wasn't really well tested.

It's hard not to feed treats, etc., but it's SO worth it:)

Hug him from all of us at TE.

[sandra]

they said our stone had been sent of to be tested and they would be able to tell exactly what caused it.

They said treats without a lot of dyes were ok, like Science Diet or Milk Bone, but not to give many. They are accustomed to having one every night at bedtime and it will be hard to get them to bed without it. ;) I really want to cut out treats.

[Blueberry]

Ours was Calcium Oxalate which means kitty needs a basic food. We do break the rules sometimes with natural treats (e.g. freeze dried salmon) - the main thing is you don't want to mess up the pH modification the food is making....

CA

[PinkPilot]

Boy, I bet that's one little Bull who got a lot of kisses tonight! I'm so happy things turned out this way for you and your family, sandra. And, of course, for Bull....who is exactly where we all wanted him to be. :)

Jackpot has been on Science Diet W/D for a long time, which is a special diet for intestinal issues. I'm guessing you probably have to watch protein percentages. For the occasional treat, there are a lot more "wholesome" brands these days than there ever used to be. They'll adjust fine!! Just enjoy your little boy......

[sandra]

Tired but happy to be home.
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb12/Sandradav/IMG_0308.jpg

[sbctwin]

Oh, Sandra, I am so happy you made the choice to keep Bull. What happens next week will happen. Bull needed to be home, with you. I can understand the finances because it was a struggle for me to keep Kallie going as long as I did. I did have a few more months with her and it meant a lot. Having to make that decision was not easy, but I knew, then that it had to be made. Bull needs to rest and the opportunity to sit in your lap again, wagging his tail in contentment.

[KnottedYet]

Oh, sweet Bull!

(((((Bull and his family))))

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

How is Bull this week- recovered ok from his surgery? :o

[sandra]

Thank you for asking. He seems to be feeling much better today. Yesterday was his last day of pain meds. He gets his stitches out on Wednesday.

Bull wants to know if you think his leg looks funny. :D He is mad and embarrassed!

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb12/Sandradav/IMG_0320.jpg

[PinkPilot]

I've been thinking about Bull all weekend. While he doesn't look quite as chipper as he did in the photos behind your new bike (before the surgery), I think he looks pretty darned GOOD!!

Thanks for sharing an update and an upload with us, sandra!! Kisses to Bull and Cujo!

[blueskies]

Bull wants to know if you think his leg looks funny. :D He is mad and embarrassed!


Tell him that his TE friends are used to guys with shaved legs.

So glad to hear he's doing well!

[onimity]

Tell him that his TE friends are used to guys with shaved legs.

Ha ha, that's awesome! :)

My cat was pretty mortified about the leg-shaving too.

I'm so happy to hear (and see) that Bull is doing well.

Anne

[Brandi]

I have been reading this thread and now i will comment!
I am glad you followed your heart! i had a cat who had been with us for 18 years and she started to have kidney failure. We have no kids or added debt so paying for her care was not a big thing but because of her age I could not put her through what they wanted to do to her to keep her alive. And it was only going to work for about a month and she would get bad again. That was easy for us to make the call. But hard at the same time. I was not going to put her through all that to keep her alive for me. And i don't look back on it now and regret it. Oh one thing i do regret was I should have brought her home for one more night but the thought of it at the time was painful. Knowing she was going to die the next day would just ruin me!

[mtbdarby]

Sandra, it looks like he just needs to pull his sock up:D

Glad to hear he's on the mend and home where he belongs.

[slmdunc]

Ohhhhhh Bull!!!! What a sweetheart. I stumbled across this thread tonight and read through the whole thing. What an ordeal you've been through! Thank goodness he is better... albeit a little humiliated with the leg thing. ;)

(((((((((((((((((((Hugs to you, Bull and your entire family!!)))))))))))))))))))))))

[Aggie_Ama]

Bull wants to know if you think his leg looks funny. :D He is mad and embarrassed!

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb12/Sandradav/IMG_0320.jpg

My Heidi says "it will grow". My poor little girl has had her leg shaved 4 times in her short life and is mortified everytime. She actually seems to try to hide her shaved leg! And to add insult to it all, she licks her wounds so she has to wear the cone collar.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Sandra, it looks like he just needs to pull his sock up:D



Those arm warmers never stay up. :D

[Tuckervill]

My mom always said, "You know the difference between a good haircut and a bad haircut?....two weeks."

:)

Karen

[sandra]

Nothing feels better than a spa day. :D Stitches out today and grooming. We got all 4 legs cut the same so he now looks like a poodle. The best news of all, we got signed up for pet insurance. Now we just need to keep him healthy for 180 days.

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb12/Sandradav/IMG_0330.jpg
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb12/Sandradav/IMG_0328.jpg

[sbctwin]

Oh Sandra, I am so happy for you and Bull. That face speaks volumns. I was wondering how Bull was doing. Thank you for posting a pic!!!

[Blueberry]

Awww....Sandra...

He looks like he feels SO much better:)

CA

[LBTC]

He looks like he's surrounded by butterflies!

Hugs,
~T~

[emily_in_nc]

Sandra, I am so happy for you, your DH, and Bull! I read this thread last week (just finally got the latest update today) and just couldn't post because it made me very emotional. We lost our sweet Pepper (Boston Terrier) just a few months shy of her 15th birthday on 12/18/06, and it was such a difficult decision to put her down. She was having cluster seizures, though, and the vet said there was really nothing more that could be done since medication stopped controlling them. It was SO sad, though; such a loss of a true family member. I could completely understand your dilemma as we went through many expensive vet visits, a few surgeries, and daily meds for years with Pepper, but were fortunate enough to be in a financial situation where it was not a big burden to us. But I am fully aware that not everyone is so fortunate, so I didn't want to tell you to pay for the surgery if you really loved Bull -- of course you loved and continue to love him -- but sometimes there are just not the means to continue to pay for more and more care, especially when the future is not guaranteed.

I'm VERY happy you were able to figure out a way to make this work, and get insurance on him for the future. I am sure he's so happy at home, and that you can sleep well at night again! It is such a blessing that the vet wouldn't put him down, even though it made for a terrible emotional struggle for you...it all turned out right in the end.

Big hugs to you and a gentle stroke and pat on the head to Bull... :o

Emily

[sandra]

Thank you. I'm sorry about the loss of your pet and that it made you sad, but I can understand.

In a month, we probably won't even know the difference financially. I just hope he can stay well. We don't have an extra $700 to drop on him every month. I'm being so strict about his diet and absolutely no treats! I asked today if I could even give him a small piece of carrot as a treat. The answer is no.

He is feeling so much better. When I see him running, tearing through the house happy when daddy comes home, playfully growling and tussling with is sister, I KNOW we made the right decision. ;)

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I know how great I always feel after a good haircut- like a weight has been lifted off me. I bet Bull feels much lighter and cleaner and spry now. :p

[Blueberry]

Sandra-

I wonder if you could give his food as a treat? If kibble comes from my hands, my pups think it's a treat regardless of whether it's the regular stuff or something else.

CA

[sandra]

Right now he is on soft food from a can rationed twice a day. (We used to leave his food down all the time) I think it contains more water and is better for his system. After he finishes all of this he will go to hard food. Good idea. I'll try it!