Is this a Scam?

[makbike]

As you know I've been trying to sell my recumbent. The activity it has generated from my listing on Craigslist has resulted in nothing but people trying to cheat me out of my money and bike. I posted the bike on a recumbent forum the other day and received a PM from a new member yesterday asking about the bike. We exchanged emails and he wants to purchase the bike. Here is the last note he sent me ......

I've got $500 cash burning a hole in my pocket, which I would be willing to give you as a non-refundable deposit via Postal money order. I'd mail it out saturday with the balance paid within 30 days at which time you'd ship the bike.
I could do the remainder immediately via Paypal but hate to puff up my credit card if you are not rushed for the funds.

If I go with this offer, who can I take the MO to is if it is real? I don't want to cash it and be held responsible for the funds.

Have any of you handled a transaction in a similar manor?

What do you think, is this yet another attempt to get my money and my bike or is it a good offer? I[m typically a very trusting person but this whole thing has me on pins and needles given what little I know about how people are trying to cheat each other.

[songlady]

That makes me VERY nervous! I don't think I'd take him up on it. :eek:

[KnottedYet]

Our local Craig's List has a warning posted at the bottom of each screen specifically saying NOT to accept postal money orders from anyone.

I don't know why, and I don't know anything about it.

But that PM smells fishy.

[Tuckervill]

Don't do it. You have every right to expect full payment up front. You're not a business and you don't have to assume the risk of one. A buyer has no right to expect you to take that risk.

This sender doesn't exactly meet the criteria of most of the scams (he's not offering more than the asking price). But, here's the warning from craigslist about money orders:

FAKE CASHIER CHECKS & MONEY ORDERS ARE COMMON, and BANKS WILL CASH THEM AND THEN HOLD YOU RESPONSIBLE when the fake is discovered weeks later.

Is he just trying to get your bike for nothing? That's just stupid. Wouldn't you know where he lives or something? I guess he could be using a fake name.

Anyway, just don't do it unless he's got the cash up front.

Karen

[Tuckervill]

Another thing I just read on Wikipedia. Sometimes the first offer is just to build your trust, and the scamming ("oops, made the money order out for too much. Please wire me back the difference?") comes later.

Just don't do it.

Karen

[mimitabby]

has there been much conversation about the bike?
no? it's probably a scam. You can tell him you will only take a cashier's check (bank guarantees money behind it) for the amount of the purchase. I bet he'll go away.

[Eden]

Yes that is a scam - the money order will be fake, the next thing the person will try to talk you into is cashing a money order for *more* than the asking price and sending back the excess. Don't even get involved with this person unless they will put the whole thing on Paypal.

[smilingcat]

I've got $500 cash burning a hole in my pocket, is an opening line for a scam.
MO, cashiers check and bank notes can all be counterfeit.

Don't even respond to the guy. more you engage him more chances of giving too much information about yourself.

About three years ago, I sold my car. Best place was on e-bay. Yahoo was terrible with scammers floating around. Local paper that advertises cars were just as bad.

"Hi, I am an agent representing a client, he had given me a check for $*** for a deal which did not consumate. He is out of Europe and unable to issue you the check but would like to purchase your car immediately. We would like to send you the check and have you send us the car with the excess balance back to us..."

Same form letter with different e-mail address. I tried to trace his e-mail and got very confusing... Somewhere in eastern Europe...

My first reply was that "I would set up an escrow account with a title insurance company and he can forward the check. When it has cleared with confirmation from the issuing bank, the title and the car will be released by the insurance company." No reply... but I kept on getting ths same silly form letter with different names.

DON'T BOTHER

an honest buyer is expected to show up and give you cash in hand and in return expect to have the item transferred at the same time.

Other weasely thing some buyer will do is show up and claim they are short by $** and would you be willing to take less or will be back with the balance. Tell this kind of person BYE BYE!! NO DEAL.

smilingcat

[SadieKate]

We're selling a lot on Craigslist right now. Legititmate buyers aren't even questioning that it is a cash-only transaction and that they must pick up the item unless you can arrange to meet somewhere, but even that is rare.

Don't even take a cashier's check as those can be counter-feited also. I assume the Criaglist folks have posted the warning based on a large statistical sample and wouldn't be making idle chit-chat.

[ttaylor508]

Has he came to look at the bike? I would say if he has not expressed an interest in looking at the bike or test riding it then it is probably a scam. Since most craislist buyers are local to the area you post they want to see before they agree to buy. We just had DH's old mountatin bike posted on Craigslist in Seattle and this is the first reply I got:
-----
Hi,
I've just gone through your ad and I'm interested in buying. I'm presently in NY on an assignment but I can arrange your payment from here and It will only take 3 business days before the payment will get to you. I will be adding $20 extra for you to keep in my favour. Money Order is the only means I can pay you with at the moment. If this is acceptable by you, Please send me your full name and address where the payment will be sent to, so I can send your payment. I will make arrangement for the pick-up once you receive payment
Thanks
Tara
-------
I knew this was not legit so I never even responded. The second response was a legit buyer who wanted to come look at and test ride the bike.

[rij73]

In my opinion, the whole point of Craigslist is that it's local. I would only ever sell something in person for cash only. In all transactions that take place long distance over the internet, I believe it should be "buyer beware" not "seller beware"! So, as the seller of such a high cost item, you have every right to expect full payment up front via Paypal. The guy sounds like a scam artist for sure...

[makbike]

Thanks guys, maybe I need to add some information. First, this is not a response to my Craigslist ad but to one I recently posted on one of the recumbent forums. I have exchanged a few emails with this guy (he is in Utach and I'm in Kentucky) regarding the bike and he has appeared to be interested in making the purchase.

I stopped by the post office in town this morning and spoke with one of the clerks there regarding money orders. Her advise was to make sure any potential buyer pays with a USPS money order for they have a machine they will run the money order through to check to see if it is a real one or counterfeit. If it comes out as a fraudlent check they will prosecute the sender. I'm really torn on this one for according to his email he is willing to send the $500 as a nonrefundable holding fee and the bike is not to be shipped until the remaining balance is payed (via USPS money order). What to do what to do?

[ttaylor508]

Did he bargain with you at all with the price? I just think it is kind of weird that someone from states away would buy something sight-unseen, and be willing to pay shipping on top of that. Do you have it priced so far under what it is worth that it is a steal. Also the fact that he has "money burning a hole in his pocket" yet he doesn't have enough to pay for it in full. On ebay at least you have a little bit of backing from them if a deal goes bad. I would be really careful.....

[mimitabby]

well, you have two things we didn't know about
1; the post office. take his check (he's far away) and take it to the post office
2; the community of recumbent folks. Talk to others; is he new? do they know him?

go for it. you don't ship the bike until you get all your money.
and if the PO will guarantee the checks are good or bad; no worries.

good luck

[Tuckervill]

Nope, I still say don't do it. If he wants it (sight unseen?), he'll cough up the cash.

If you think people don't hang out in obscure places ('bent forum) looking for a mark, let me tell you about something that happened to me way back in the '80s. I had a crib and other baby items for sale in the paper. I got a phone call about the ad from a woman. She started talking about her baby, and asked me about my baby and pretty soon we weren't talking about the items I had for sale, but she was asking me about breastfeeding and then how big my boobs were. I began to suspect a pervert and ended the conversation...but the pervert went a LONG LONG way to get me to talk to her (it was a him, cuz the voice was strange) just so he could talk boobs, but not just any boobs, lactating ones, you know? He was a freak.

It was someone who had to be cruising the baby furniture ads, just so they could talk dirty with some stranger? That's pretty a pretty focused place to be looking.

Also, when I had a foster dog I was trying to get rid of (wasn't selling), I got those scam emails about the dog, and it wasn't even for sale. Rat Terrier forum. Obscure.

Cash, paypal or nothing is what I say.

Karen

[smilingcat]

No don't do it.

Utah has a reputation among the scam artist as a safe haven. The public at large think that, just because it is a very conservative Mormon controlled state that scammers do not reside there. In reality, it has the highest fraud and scam rate in the country.

Have him pay you in full through Paypal. Don't even think about the USPS money order.

Smilingcat

[makbike]

I think I have the bike fairly priced. My recumbent has many upgrades compared to what a factory Giro would have. In fact, most of my components are upgrades with the exception of the brakes. Toss in the extras (kickstand, rack, extra tires/tubes, water bottles, bag) and I think I have a pretty darn good bike. A bike of this sorts would start at $1550 and I would think with the extras and upgrades would have easier cost a buyer close to $1800.

There has been no baragaining on the price. I'm not sure how common it is to purchase a bike sight unseen but would think it does happen through ebay, craigslist, forums etc.

He did just join the recumbent forum. Not sure what this means. Is he a scammer or is he interested in entering the world of bent riders? He has indicated in an email that he wants to try riding a recumbent and that he currently rides a DF.

I did send him a note that simply said if a money order is sent it must be a USPS MO, nothing else will be accepted. If he bulks at this I think it will say a lot about his honesty.

I have no problem holding the bike for him if his "good-faith" money is good and the postal clerk did tell me they would know immediately if is was a fraud.

I guess all I can do is wait and see how he replies to my email.

I appreciate all the ideas that have been shared. As I told a friend today I don't want to take anyone to the cleaners and in return I don't want to be taken to the cleaners over this bike. I simply want to recoup the money I have put into it, turn it around and purchase myself a nice road bike for next season.

[ilima]

Tell him to get a PayPal account and link his bank account. He can deposit the money in his bank account and then pay you. It will only take a couple of days for him to get his account 'verified' and linked.

If he blanches, you know it's a scam, which is what it sounds like to me.

[onimity]

He wants to *try* riding a recumbent and he is going to send a valid money order across the country for a bike he hasn't even seen? How does he know that it is a good fit for him? I *guess* the cash is burning a hole in his pocket!

If he can't pay you via PayPal, I wouldn't do business with him. You never know what he has up his sleeve but everything about this situation screams *beware*! Honestly, I wouldn't give the guy my address to send the money order to...maybe I'm overly suspicious, but you really know nothing about this guy. He could tell you anything. He could be a thief looking for high ticket bikes in your area. I would accept *nothing* other than paypal, or cash from someone local to your area.

I bought a bike off of craigslist. I had a lot of questions, asked for more detailed photos. I wanted to test ride it. I wanted proof that the guy acquired it legally. I paid him cash.

My two cents.

Anne

[teigyr]

I'll agree with the fact you should be careful. A normal person would not do a lot of what this guy is doing. It's a shame we have to think so critically about it; darn those scammers!!!

That all being said, it isn't a bad thing to talk to him. Maybe there are reasons why he wants to do it this way. I am fairly impetuous and have been known to make decisions that might seem strange to others. This guy could have viewed your history and seen that you are a straight forward person and that this bike is a good deal. Maybe he had been thinking about getting one and this one seems perfect. Just make sure he has no more info on you than he has to have, that you aren't at risk at any way, and that you aren't scammed.

Despite the fact I can see reasons behind some of his actions, it really doesn't add up. Stand firm and definitely question what's going on.

[makbike]

Thanks guys for you thoughts.

I talked at length with the potential buyer this afternoon. He is wanting to try a fairly inexpensive but quality recumbent before he purchases the high end performance one he has his eyes on to make sure he is a bent guy. It appeared as we talked he was knowledgable about the different grades of components. When I reminded him the bike would come minus the pedals he was okay with that given he uses FROGS.

He has agreed to send me a USPS money order which I will promptly take to the post office to have them scan for authencity. The bike will not be shipped until all the money has been received and I'm sure the PO's are real - again I'll work with the post office on this.

When I explained to him why I wanted the USPS money order he fully understood and never bulked at my request. I guess all I can do is wait and see if the MO he sends is real and go from there.

He did offer PayPal - notme - so again I think this is a real offer. I've never used PayPal but it appears the basic account I signed up for can only have $500 put in each month. Also, if I understand what I've read they will charge me 4% of the cost of the item to transfer the money into my account. I know after the initial $500 is received I can ask that the remainder be paid via PayPal and I may go that route - it is a door which I have not closed.

I personally would not purchase a bike online but that is me - if this is what he wants - an inexpensive, well built bike with excellent components and he is willing to take it sight unseen that is his issue. All I want is my money and hopefully the Postal Service will be there to protect me as we progress through this deal.

I also sent the potential buyer an email outlining the transaction, step by step. I've ask that he either okay it or reject it so I have some proof what we discussed on the phone this afternoon. It may not be worth anything but it offers proof that we have talked and have agreed on a deal.

All I can do is keep my fingers crossed and hope I'm dealing with an honest individual. If not, you guys can all bash me when it is over and toss out the "I tried to warn you" line if necessary.

[mimitabby]

you're doing just fine, Makbike!

[teigyr]

Looks good to me. You were right to be cautious and I'm glad he's working with you :D

[makbike]

Thanks guys, I hope this turns out well. I appreciate your vote of confidence.

[KnottedYet]

I found my beloved Flosshilde right here on TE. (thank you thank you thank you Limewave!)

I wanted her. I needed her. I had to have her.

I ran out of money...

sigh.

Limewave was wonderfully patient, held the bike for me until I paid for all of it.

Guess I would've sounded like a scammer. :eek:

(that's Flossie in my avatar)