LBS...wah....

[elk]

I took my bike in to get some help switching out my handlebars...(another thread)...I can't put any more spacers on, so I opted to get some neato nittos from Rivendell (Albatross)...swept back, upright posture bars. I want to sit more upright. And my cables aren't long enough. And I don't feel ready to do that job myself.

Anyway.....I called the closest BS...been around since the 30's and I've never seen any other customers in there, so I figured I could maybe get it back sooner. They are not as hip as other other LBS in PDX for sure. The guy who owns it is an old racer.

I called yesterday and talked to the mechanic ( he was pleasant). when I brought it in, the owner was a little gruff and was giving me a hard time about wanting it back ASAP...which I was NOT demanding about...I just said I would miss my bike...which I do.
"What do you think every one ahead of you wants?" he says.
"They want their bikes back ASAP of course," I says. "They miss them when they're gone."

I left it and can get it back at 3. But I am not happy....I'm hoping that the job they do is not necessarily proportionate to how nice they are....if they've been around since 1938...they have to do something right!!!

But I just feel dissed. I will not go back there. I could easily "have a talk" with him, but don't want to. I just want my bike to be ok....

[mimitabby]

everyone does NOT want their bike ASAP. I dropped off a bike right before i went out of the country for two weeks.
Some of us can't GET to the bike shop until the next weekend. what a loser!

[elk]

now I know why no one is ever in there! But how do they stay in buisness?

Anyone else in Portland know what I'm talking about?

[Running Mommy]

Ok, so here is my beef with the BS industry as a whole...

At Interbike I sat through a seminar on the state of the Industry- Independant retailers were the target audience. To say the trend is flat would be an understatement. Actually it's trending down.

In order to reverse the downward spiral the mindset has GOT to change.
The speaker had some great idea's, and was IMPLORING everyone in the room to change tactics and step up to the plate.
He spoke about how unfriendly bike shops can be, from an asthetic point of view, to the attitude of the staff.
He made a point of saying that the bike shops are targeting the wrong customer. They need to be targeting women, and the casual cyclist. As THEY are going to be the consumer who will keep you in business. He stated the % of spending decisions that are made by women. I think it was like 80%. Thats HUGE.
He also talked about how intimidating it can be for a casual or newbie cyclist to walk through the door and see all the metal, and fancy looking parts that they have no idea what they are looking at.
Merchandising needs to be softened up, Instead of looking like a dark machine shop it needs to be pleasing to the eye. Think about when you walk into a shop that is well merchandized. Your drawn to the racks to see what they have because the store is so nice. It's a subconsious thing I think, but it's true. If the store is pleasing to the eye you will spend more time browsing.
AND the staff (owners on down) need to learn some people skills at the very least. Snippy replies, sarcasm, and an elitist attitude are NOT skills that one needs to work in a bike shop. I just don't understand how bike shops have gotten away from giving good service?? It amazes me sometimes that they even stay in business with some of the things I've seen/heard!

Sure it's also important to be able to satisfy the hardcore dude. But they are more prone to already know exactly what they want when they walk through the door, AND they just want to know a few key things- can you get the part/bike/wheel/ etc, How much will it cost me, how long will it take.
Answer those key ?'s to their satisfaction and you have the sale.

Sooo as I step off my soap box, I am pledging that Estrella Mountain Cyclery will be a pleasing place to shop, have a good selection, and most importantly will treat EVERYONE who walks through the door with the utmost respect.
I demand that our shop be the friendliest bike shop in town!

[Duck on Wheels]

Ok, so here is my beef with the BS industry as a whole...

At Interbike I sat through a seminar on the state of the Industry- Independant retailers were the target audience. To say the trend is flat would be an understatement. Actually it's trending down.

In order to reverse the downward spiral the mindset has GOT to change.
The speaker had some great idea's, and was IMPLORING everyone in the room to change tactics and step up to the plate.
He spoke about how unfriendly bike shops can be, from an asthetic point of view, to the attitude of the staff.
He made a point of saying that the bike shops are targeting the wrong customer. They need to be targeting women, and the casual cyclist. As THEY are going to be the consumer who will keep you in business. He stated the % of spending decisions that are made by women. I think it was like 80%. Thats HUGE.
He also talked about how intimidating it can be for a casual or newbie cyclist to walk through the door and see all the metal, and fancy looking parts that they have no idea what they are looking at.
Merchandising needs to be softened up, Instead of looking like a dark machine shop it needs to be pleasing to the eye. Think about when you walk into a shop that is well merchandized. Your drawn to the racks to see what they have because the store is so nice. It's a subconsious thing I think, but it's true. If the store is pleasing to the eye you will spend more time browsing.
AND the staff (owners on down) need to learn some people skills at the very least. Snippy replies, sarcasm, and an elitist attitude are NOT skills that one needs to work in a bike shop. I just don't understand how bike shops have gotten away from giving good service?? It amazes me sometimes that they even stay in business with some of the things I've seen/heard!

Sure it's also important to be able to satisfy the hardcore dude. But they are more prone to already know exactly what they want when they walk through the door, AND they just want to know a few key things- can you get the part/bike/wheel/ etc, How much will it cost me, how long will it take.
Answer those key ?'s to their satisfaction and you have the sale.

Sooo as I step off my soap box, I am pledging that Estrella Mountain Cyclery will be a pleasing place to shop, have a good selection, and most importantly will treat EVERYONE who walks through the door with the utmost respect.
I demand that our shop be the friendliest bike shop in town!

Dang! Now we all have to move to Arizona??? :eek: ;)

[SalsaMTB]

Ok, so here is my beef with the BS industry as a whole...

At Interbike I sat through a seminar on the state of the Industry- Independant retailers were the target audience. To say the trend is flat would be an understatement. Actually it's trending down.

In order to reverse the downward spiral the mindset has GOT to change.
The speaker had some great idea's, and was IMPLORING everyone in the room to change tactics and step up to the plate.
He spoke about how unfriendly bike shops can be, from an asthetic point of view, to the attitude of the staff.
He made a point of saying that the bike shops are targeting the wrong customer. They need to be targeting women, and the casual cyclist. As THEY are going to be the consumer who will keep you in business. He stated the % of spending decisions that are made by women. I think it was like 80%. Thats HUGE.
He also talked about how intimidating it can be for a casual or newbie cyclist to walk through the door and see all the metal, and fancy looking parts that they have no idea what they are looking at.
Merchandising needs to be softened up, Instead of looking like a dark machine shop it needs to be pleasing to the eye. Think about when you walk into a shop that is well merchandized. Your drawn to the racks to see what they have because the store is so nice. It's a subconsious thing I think, but it's true. If the store is pleasing to the eye you will spend more time browsing.
AND the staff (owners on down) need to learn some people skills at the very least. Snippy replies, sarcasm, and an elitist attitude are NOT skills that one needs to work in a bike shop. I just don't understand how bike shops have gotten away from giving good service?? It amazes me sometimes that they even stay in business with some of the things I've seen/heard!

Sure it's also important to be able to satisfy the hardcore dude. But they are more prone to already know exactly what they want when they walk through the door, AND they just want to know a few key things- can you get the part/bike/wheel/ etc, How much will it cost me, how long will it take.
Answer those key ?'s to their satisfaction and you have the sale.

Sooo as I step off my soap box, I am pledging that Estrella Mountain Cyclery will be a pleasing place to shop, have a good selection, and most importantly will treat EVERYONE who walks through the door with the utmost respect.
I demand that our shop be the friendliest bike shop in town!

Hey, Dh and I attended the same seminar! We just opened our shop 1.5 years ago and the seminar was definitely interesting. It helped to confirm we were doing some things right (focusing on the customer, tons of group rides, active in the community etc) but also helped us to see the trends and help us generate new ideas for the store.

I do think that the seminar would be most beneficial for the type of shop that OP attended. I recall before we opened our shop, we visited many of the locals together and I told them I was shopping for a bike. I think only 1 shop actually talked to me, not my dh. It was a HUGE eye opened for my dh. Hopefully other shops will be able to take something away from the seminar.

For the OP, just because the guy was a bit grumpy doesn't mean the quality of work will be poor. There's no excuse for him talking unprofessionally to you, but hopefully (for your sake) it's the quality of the service, not the personality that keeps the shop running!

[Sheesh]

The reason we continue to frequent our shop of choice, versus any of the other shops in town, is because of the service we receive from the moment walk in the door. We've waited for what seemed like forever before even being acknowledged in empty shops, and then just walked out the door because nobody even looked up. The minute we walked into our now-favorite store, the owner looked up, acknowledged us and asked if he could help us find anything. The rest of the people in the shop are not nearly as helpful, but the owner tries to get them to be that way.

When I went in with my husband to talk to the owner about getting a cross bike, he called me behind the counter to show me some catalogs and some stuff on his computer. He talked directly to me, asking me what I wanted, and pretty much ignored my husband. It was great!

For these reasons, I will continue to give my hard-earned money to this guy, rather than any other shop.

And, from an outsider's perspective, I think every bike shop needs a coffee stand included (or a bar). It gives the guys some other way of spending their money, and an excuse to hang out and chat. If you're going to hang out and chat anyway, you may as well give me some money for a cup of coffee or a beer. :rolleyes:

[Zen]

And, from an outsider's perspective, I think every bike shop needs a coffee stand included (or a bar). It gives the guys some other way of spending their money, and an excuse to hang out and chat.

Or an excuse to hang out and check out the guys:p

[Kalidurga]

I've read some similar articles, including one in the latest RBR netletter. Makes me very glad I found my two LBS's, even if they aren't really local (15-20 miles away). There are a lot of shops to choose from, five alone in the town where my favorite shops are located, and it was definitely the demeanor of the owner/managers that made me want to come back initially. I go to both of these shops because the guys there just plain enjoy talking about bikes, with anyone. When there's nothing I need but I'm in the area, I'll go in, ask a question about something, shoot the breeze for a bit about where we've each ridden lately, then walk out without buying anything, and they still greet me with a smile the next time I walk in the door! That is what makes me a loyal customer, and why I'll spend all of my bike $$'s at those two shops, rather than at closer locations or on-line.

Good to see that the industry is recognizing this.

[elk]

He was a lot nicer when I back to get my bike. Chatty and sweet. I also learned that after over 40years, he had sold the shop and it would change hands in a year.

He reversed my brakes...so my front brake is at my right hand and my shifter is now on the left...and they're kind of upside down...

This pissed me off; he told me it was alot better NOT to cross the wires and The shifting would be easier and I would get used to it.....Meantime, he was trying to get my old bar off my rack and was kind of flailing around in a way that made me just want my bike back and to get out of there.

OK...so the guy is European and I'm thinkning maybe it's a European thing and I did some internet research; found actually lots of sound support for this reversal...Including my current hero, King Retro Sheldon Brown...So ok, I'll try it.

But my brake levers are upside down!! An aesthetic concern.
I'll live with it for awhile and if it bugs me, I'll change it. I won't go back there though...

I have another question that I'll post seperately...:rolleyes:

[Running Mommy]

"And, from an outsider's perspective, I think every bike shop needs a coffee stand included (or a bar). "

HA! Funny you should mention that! We are going to have a lounge area in the shop complete with a couch, couple of chairs, and a flat screen. When I was at Interbike I spoke with a lady from Kinetic coffee. Good stuff- AND they do private label.
We plan to have weekend morning rides from the shop, and then have coffee and some baked goods for the end of the ride. I LOVE to bake, so I figure it'll be a good excuse for me to bake up some muffins, scones, or nanner bread. I make a mean chocolate almond biscotti too... Mmmmmmnnnn...
But I digress.
So my thought is that if the coffee is a hit, I'll get some done private label and sell it.
Ahhh yes ladies, I have plans. Yes I do.. Now I just need to get them in ACTION! OY!!! :rolleyes:

But Elk- Back to your lbs dude. You know, I'm not sure I would have reversed ANYTHING without first speaking with the owner. I would have given you a call, explained what I was thinking, and then had YOU make the call. I mean it's YOUR bike..... Hmmmm.... Yeah, he may have oodles of experience and all, but that's not a decision I would have made... Maybe that's just me??:confused:

[elk]

no...RMommy...you would've been doing the right thing.... I was miffed.
You're gonna have a GREAT shop!!!

[Sheesh]

Running Mommy - I'm moving to AZ and making your shop my new favorite LBS! I'll sit and drink coffee and browse the women's clothing selection while the hubby talks components with the mechanics. I think that would be heaven for both of us.

Elk - I wouldn't hesitate to take my bike back and wait while they returned your brake levers to the way you had them. It's YOUR bike, and you can have them whatever way YOU want them. Don't let that guy push you around.

[elk]

sheesh....you're right and I wouldn't hesitate to have them change them, but I don't want to go back....I'd rather be out a few bucks and have someone I like and trust do it.
Meantime...I'll try it out...:)

[onimity]

Hey Elk,

Yea, the reversed brakes is def. a european thing (or an american thing...) but when I've ridden internationally companies that I've rented bikes from have *always* made sure that the bike matches my expectations, not their preference. The reason for this is that instinct is a powerful thing and if you apply the wrong amount of pressure thinking you have the opposite brake, that can be bad, and you are more likely to do this when you are not thinking about this, i.e., when a car pulls in front of you, or you *really* need to stop. True, you'll probably get used to it over time, but it sets you up to have incorrect instincts on any other bike you are going to ride in the US... don't know about you, but I have a few...

Personally I like a bit of a surly attitude every once in a while, these people end up being some of my favorites if you can dish it back, but it's probably no wonder the shop is empty. Those sorts are fun to have a beer and chat with sometimes, but less so to do business with.

I had a great experience at my LBS today. I went in for a fitting on the bike I am taking to Patagonia. I've been tweaking a few things and wanted to make sure the fit was good, though it felt good to me. The LBS guy tweaked a few more things, and when he'd say, you could do A, or not, we'd discuss and he'd say, "so we're in agreement then, that there's probably nothing to be gained from..." awesome. He told me in great detail about everything he looked at. Of course they didn't charge me for the fit, and when I asked about winter gloves after, and had decided on the ones I wanted, he said "I think we have some of those marked 35% off in the back" ?!? way cool! I also got my new tires, they had just come in, and he had a) remembered that I'd ordered them and b) noticed that the guys in back were processing an incoming shipment containing them. I love that familiarity, like small town businesses that used to be so much more frequent. I love that attention to detail. I love that every person in both of their stores is the same way. Except the owner, he's kind of a jerk. But he has a good staff...

Best, they asked if I'd need any help installing the tires (they always offer to install anything you buy there, but he knows I like to be self-sufficient). Not a chance! I said. When he was ringing up my tires a guy came up to pay for them fixing his flat. He had already wheeled the bike out to the car. The LBS guy said: what kind of bike was it? Flat guy says: Uh, that red one I just had up here. LBS guy smiles. I said: It looked like a 2007 Kona Lana'i? Flat guy says: Yea! That's it! LBS guy just smiles.

Honestly, I think that their attitude toward women is the way it is because there are so many women here that ride, and ride seriously. That, and the attitude of bike shops here tends to almost be more one of advocacy than of retail. They want people to ride. They want people to be able to maintain their own bikes. They want people to love their bikes. It really shows, and I love giving them my business for that reason.

On a similar note, though, while I prefer giving my LBS business over shopping online, I also love giving business to team estrogen, for the great selection of woman-specific products, for the helpful articles and for the tremendous community. This is my favorite virtual LBS, to be sure.

And great idea about the LBS bar. Mine has free water & sports drinks, and the counter serves as a bar more-or-less, but I think it's a great idea.

Anne

[KnottedYet]

Mine has coffee in the self-serve coffee pot. They are very much a "come as you are" bike shop. They don't assume anything, so they don't give you extra help unless you ask. Then they gush with help! I go in there and I don't get treated like a "girl", y'know? (or like a middle-aged woman) They treat you like someone who loves bikes, whatever your knowlege, experience, or appearance.

If they aren't busy, they'll chat with you about anything to do with bikes.

If they are busy, they'll at least give you a wave or a quick "how are you doing?"

Recycled Cycles, Seattle WA. www.recycledcycles.com

Edit: I've sent several of my patients to Recycled Cycles to look at bikes.

[7rider]

My LBS has an espresso machine! Love it! :cool:
But I acknowledge there are some things my shop can do immediately for me, and some things for which I have to wait. I don't go to my car's dealership and expect them to do work immediately. Sure, I am not without my car for 2 weeks, but think about scale: compare the number of bays, technicians, work orders (and other options on where to bring your car), and (ahem) the number of interruptions from folks who come in and want something done immediately.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. It's all about the relationship you have with your LBS. This guy's probably got a line of bikes downstairs waiting for work to be done by regular customers who keep his lights on and the bills paid. To go in once and not see anyone around, tells you nothing about the shop, the owner, or the people who frequent it. My LBS is extraordinarily busy at times, and I'm hard pressed to get anyone to talk to me (and I'm an extremely "regular" customer and personal friend of the owner), and some times the shop is so empty, it seems to echo.
Anyway...that's my $0.02

[elk]

Regina
I agree....I have been "dating" and had been in that shop several times. I called to ask how soon and they told me a few hours...thus....the story unfolded.

I am not dating them anymore

[KnottedYet]

Elk, will you have him fix what he did to your brakes? Or take it to a different shop?

(I'd have conniptions if someone did that to my bike without asking me.)

[elk]

Knot... I saw him kind of flailiing to get my old bar off the rack where it was bungeed down for transport...he was rough and impatient and I thought...I do not want those hands on my bike....He's on his way out and so need not be invested in my happiness..

that's the long answer.
the short answer is no, i will not have him fix it.

I asked him to give me longer cables for the new handlbar and he basically just switched the sides...probably cut what was already there. there are at least 3 other shops I trust to do a job right....I just have to wait a little longer to get it back.

I'm not sure I'm ready to replace cable myself yet...too many vitals at stake there. ANd I haven't found a really clear explanation of how to do it so that I go, "oh that's clear, I can do that..."

oh yeah...River City, where I bought m' bike has a free espresso bar on the weekends and free coffee always....but they are also one of the busiest shops...not that that busy is bad...

[smilingcat]

I simply refuse to go to a place where they are total snobs. I went a shop owned and operated by a former european racer. Has his photo in a paceline with C****** team. Bad mouth everything not Campy, Colnago ... Can you guess his nationality? He was a total jerk so I didn't buy from him or have my bike serviced. His loss not mine.

I take my bike to a shop where the people are upfront and nice. I'm not one of those looking for a townie or beach cruiser and pretty much know my stuff so I REALLY HATE IT when they give me lip service. I have no qualms about walking out in mid-sentence. I've done it to many a car salesman.

The places where I do go are places where they talk straight to me, treat me like a customer they want... And when they work on my bike, they always ask before they change any setup. DON'T YOU DARE TOUCH THE SEAT, SEAT TUBE.

So for the guy to swap around the setup without asking is not only rude but he didn't stay within bounds of what is requested. Shame on him.

I think its important too that if its your first visit to a "new" shop, you need to have a good understanding with the people at the shop of what you expect.

it's bit of peeve for me too,
smilingcat

[Tuckervill]

I had great hope for the new shop that opened up to the north of me. I heard they were backed financially by a Walton (Wal-Mart family), so that means they might have better longevity. The first time I walked in, all I could see was WSD everything--clothing, bikes, baby trailers, etc. The decor is somewhat funky with a couch and mountain biking videos playing on a screen (alarm bells about that-something incongruent between the front and back of the store). The owner (probably only 30-ish) was very friendly and helpful. Gave us his business card.

Unfortunately, all his employees are under 25 and male (I have 3 kids under 25 and male so I"m familiar with the breed). If any of them have been to bike mechanic school, I'd be surprised. They don't know what quill stems are. I've been in to the shop 3 or 4 times, including once to have my son's vintage John Deere checked over by a "pro" after we rebuilt it. I had been having trouble with the front brake, and they should have made an adjustment, but they didn't, and I had forgotten to point it out. They did true the wheels, though. They would have sold me forever on their wrenching if they had caught that front brake out of alignment. Then they mismeasured the seat post and ordered the wrong size, which I didn't know until I got home with it.

Not once in the times I've been in there since the first time has the owner been there. The age of the employees and owner is relevant to me because I'm into vintage bikes. They were not even BORN when our John Deere was made (and they don't know what a quill stem is!). The oldest bike shop around here, whom I thought I could count on for old parts, told me they got rid of all their boxes of old parts a couple of years ago. ("threw them all away"!) So, I need a good bike shop who is willing to build a relationship with me.

I know a bike shop can't be all things to all people, but I do have modern bikes, too. When I needed work on my Trek 1000, I had to repeat several times what kind of bike it was like they'd never heard of one, and they are a Trek dealer AND they have an IDENTICAL ONE IN THEIR FRONT WINDOW! (This was the young man behind the counter with the mechanics apron on, not the owner.)

I'm also disconcerted about the pro-woman/fitness/hybrid vibe at the front of the store and the pro-hucking vibe in the back, with the couple of young shop groupies hanging out on the couch and distracting the employees.

Anyhow, good customer service follows the same principles no matter what the industry. Greet the customer, be helpful, don't be afraid to say "I don't know, but I can find out!"

Karen

[Running Mommy]

Karen that's one thing that scares me about opening up our own shop. We DONT know all there is to know about bikes. Neither of us are vintage bike lovers, so we would have probably had that deer in the headlights look if you had brought it to us. BUT we are going to try our best to gain as much knowledge as possible in all things bike before the shop opens.
We are both going to school- yep bike school- tho I call it bike "camp" since we will be there for 2 weeks.
And one thing I've learned over the years is it's ok to say "I'm not sure, but I will find out"...

We do hope to hire a good wrench with oodles of experiece, but i hear they are hard to come by... sigh..

But yeah, we can't be all things to all people, so we are just going to do our best. When you think about it, there are so many facets to the industry. It would be hard to be a complete expert in all of them.

As for the women in the front, huckers in the back... Heck I don't see anything wrong with it, as long as overall the shop is inviting. We have a big BMX scene in our area, so I'm going to devote some square footage to them. At least your shop is trying to target women riders. Most don't even bother.
As a shop owner it's tough to strike a balance and keep everyone happy.