Grrrr, why do they always assume?

[sundial]

Does this happen to you?

You decide to drop by a bike shop to browse. You enjoy looking at the new racy bikes, browsing the cool technical clothing and surveying the bike accessories you might just need for the fall season. You are enjoying the moments of pure bliss.

Then the bike shop boy comes over. He gives you a once over.

You know that look.

He then ushers you to the comfort bikes and clothing because you don't *look* like you cycle more than 12 miles a month. After all, you aren't a size 0, and you're not a 25 year old either. And you probably won't want to test ride the Madone on such a warm day. It's easy to get a little hot. It does take a while to work up to a lot of miles each week.

Excuse me?

Listen Sparky, my happy hiney could probably outride you any day. You may be faster, but I'm built for endurance and I'll see you in my mirror as you bonk.

Sigh.......why do they like to patronize us?

[Eden]

Ignorance.....
when I went to purchase my race bike, for actual racing, the guys in the shop kept looking at my husband (who I believe was supposed to back them up that I should get the bigger bike, which would have been totally wrong for me.) At least I went in knowing exactly what I wanted and they didn't try to talk me out of that, but I don't think that they were taking me at all seriously. Of course, a few weeks after I picked up my bike I took 3rd place in the race that they sponsored and they started respecting me a whole lot more.

It might be an interesting experiment to go into a bike shop cold and see what they want to show me.

[KnottedYet]

I was kinda getting the pooh-pooh brush off at one shop until I mentioned my Waterford and my Surly. (I was shopping for panniers.)

Then they were a little nicer.

[kelownagirl]

I found that once I got to know the guys at my bike shop, they treated me like another biker. I can now walk in and the owner and sale guys all know me by name.

I have experienced the same thing when buying a car. Never take a man with you if the car is for you. The salesmen will only talk to the man, even if the man keeps saying "Talk to her, she's the one buying the car."

[Pedal Wench]

Does this happen to you?

You decide to drop by a bike shop to browse. You enjoy looking at the new racy bikes, browsing the cool technical clothing and surveying the bike accessories you might just need for the fall season. You are enjoying the moments of pure bliss.

Then the bike shop boy comes over. He gives you a once over.

You know that look.

He then ushers you to the comfort bikes
....

Exact same thing happened to me. I was at a shop that's a Specialized dealer for a saddle - not my usual shops. While there, I wanted to see how Specialized clamps their seatposts on their carbon bikes. Because I had an issue with one of my three carbon bikes... shop kid points me towards their WSD aluminum bikes (not that there's anything wrong with that,... I have two of those too!)

[boy in a kilt]

Because the guys at the shop are in a weird situation.

On the one hand, they know jack about you and appearances are all they have to go on. Let's be realistic here, human beings are programmed to make judgements about other people based on appearances.

On the other hand, they are constantly getting flak in the cycling press for focusing on selling nothing but carbon-fiber race bikes when all the person really wants is something for riding down to the store.

Obviously, the best policy is to spend some time chatting with a prospective customer and finding out where they are and what they want.

This doesn't just happen to women either. I've hand salespeople confidently tell me there is no way I'll be able to haul my body and my loaded touring bike over mountain passes with the gearing I had mere days after having done precisely that.

[dex]

I usually just get ignored by bike shop staff. Sometimes the attitude pisses me off and sometimes it makes me laugh, depending on what kind of mood I was in to start with. :rolleyes:

[sundial]

The funny thing is, I've visited bike shops in different regions and it's interesting how they approach me and are presumptuous about my fitness level. I usually wear loose clothing (shirt jacket, cropped pants, etc.) so my physique is kinda masked.

My LBS treats me with respect now that they know where I ride and how often. Plus I bought my Roubaix from them. ;)

[KnottedYet]

I got called "sir" in REI's bike department.

I was traumatized.

(guess the kid thought only men would be looking at the road bikes, and I was a tall critter, so with 2 data points he confidently said, "Can I help you, Sir?")

[boy in a kilt]

Dex, did you know you look a little like DJ Irene in your avatar?

[sundial]

I was kinda getting the pooh-pooh brush off at one shop until I mentioned my Waterford and my Surly. (I was shopping for panniers.)

Then they were a little nicer.

I mentioned the word Surly to a bike shop, and they rolled their eyes. (You *really* don't want a heavy steel bike. What you need is.......)

[sundial]

Knotted, my hubby has an alto voice on the telephone and he's been called ma'am on several occasions. :p

I haven't had the pleasure of being mistaken for a sir. :p

[Tuckervill]

I don't know a shop around here that has a mechanic older than 30. It's very sad--they treat me like their dull-minded mother because they're stinking TEENAGERS. And they know nothing about friction shifters and have no appreciation for lugged steel. :mad:

Karen

[Zen]

Listen Sparky, my happy hiney could probably outride you any day. You may be faster, but I'm built for endurance and I'll see you in my mirror as you bonk.


I know Sparky. And his friends Spanky and Bunky :D
I thought I was the only one who uses the phrase 'happy heiney". But I usually don't say heiney.

[KnottedYet]

Steel bikes are pretty hot stuff around here, maybe because we have steel frame builders in the area.

Surly bikes are popular here, too. I've had two different steel bike shops refer to Surly as "Seattle" bikes.

No-body's tried to talk me out of steel yet.;)

[dex]

Dex, did you know you look a little like DJ Irene in your avatar?

Heh. I'd never noticed, but now that you've mentioned it, I see it. (That's awesome, because the only celeb-type comparison I've ever gotten in the past is Margaret Cho.) :cool:

[Kimmyt]

wait, dex, is that your real hair?

If so, AWESOME

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I don't know a shop around here that has a mechanic older than 30. It's very sad--they treat me like their dull-minded mother because they're stinking TEENAGERS. And they know nothing about friction shifters and have no appreciation for lugged steel. :mad:

Karen

Hey, I feel your pain!

The bike mechanic at my local LBS is about 17 and looks like Peter Brady from the Brady Bunch. (Not Greg Brady, mind you, but PETER Brady!) :eek: :(

I have to keep myself from saying things like "If you scratch my bike I'll ground you for a month" :rolleyes:

[Andrea]

I got called "sir" in REI's bike department.

I was traumatized.

(guess the kid thought only men would be looking at the road bikes, and I was a tall critter, so with 2 data points he confidently said, "Can I help you, Sir?")
I got called "sir" from the front the other day at the Einstein Bros. Bagel shop! The guy behind the counter glanced up quickly and said "May I have yur order, sir?" When I started talking, he looked back up & immediately apologized over & over & over...
I can see how it would happen- I've got really short hair, about 5'6", and have wide shoulders. It took me a couple of minutes to convince him that I really didn't care and that he didn't have to find a manager to give me my food for free :rolleyes:

[Eden]

better I suppose than being taken for a kid.... (and even a little boy). At 5 feet I'm probably only the size of your average 12 year old. My husband has been complimented on his son before.... (yes the guy was drunk and I was wearing a hat and rain jacket), but seriously sometimes I get over looked in stores, like at the deli counter. I think people assume I'm someone's kid waiting with them.

*edit* - looked it up, yup I am the size of your average 12 y.o.......

[dex]

wait, dex, is that your real hair?

Real hair, yes. Natural color, no. ;)

[Duck on Wheels]

I once got respect in a bike shop just for walking in with my spd shoes aaaaand ... Impeach Bush bike socks. Had a long conversation with them about where to get the socks and how many they should stock. Also a conversation about exchanging my comfort bike for a flatbar road bike, now that I'd outdone myself by doing 42 miles of the Cindy on the "old grey mare" and was ready to move up to something real. Maybe I'm thick-skinned, but I didn't feel like they dissed me, and I was not only middle-aged, female and overweight, but actually came in on a big clunky comfortbike. So I guess some shops treat people right. Which I guess is why we come back and actually shop there.

[sundial]

No-body's tried to talk me out of steel yet.;)

That's because you would put the hurt on their.....feet! :D

[sundial]

I once got respect in a bike shop just for walking in with my spd shoes aaaaand ... Impeach Bush bike socks.

Around here it would be I Miss Bill socks.

[sgtiger]

I haven't worked in a bike shop, but I have worked for years in retail and customer service, so take my opinion for what it's worth. I think it's bad form for them to assume anything about you. In my experience it was important to ask a few good open-ended questions so that I could make recommendations based on the customers' replies. Sometimes they would come in with no idea what they were after, but they usually knew what they were trying to accomplish.

[Running Mommy]

I went to a seminar held by a VERY well respected guy in the retail- and specifically bike- industry.
He talked about how the bike industry is in the pits right now with no growth- but then he talked about WHY bike shops are floundering.
This was one of his main topics. He hammered away on this, and I was nodding my head "YES" the entire time. I am one of those "cyclists in disguise" and have been looked over in shops MANY times.
This is one of the reasons why *I* am designing the floorplan, merchandising, and picking all the soft goods for the store. It's also another reason why I wanted to go with Giant. The take WSD seriously from the ground up.

Sigh... I promis ladies when "Estrella Mountain Cyclery" is up and running it will be the MOST friendly shop for ALL!!! And I'll make darn sure of that!

[GLC1968]

I have a long history in retail management, and I know that it IS possible to hire and train employees to treat your customers correctly, including not making snap judgements. Because of this, I hold all retailers to a high standard - mine. :cool:

That said, this phenom is rampant not just in cycling shops, but in the entire fitness industry. I get sick and tired of going to new gyms, fitness equipment shops, GNC type places, bike shops, etc and basically getting ignored or belittled. I walk in with my average sized husband and they immediately zone in on him. I'm the one with the fitness/sports/cycling knowledge, interest and history. He just happens to look the part and apprently, I don't. SOOOO frustrating.

Editing to add: I'm pretty sure that it's not gender-related, either. I think that if I was the one who looked super-fit and he was overweight - the situation might reverse.

[sundial]

I'm pretty sure that it's not gender-related, either.

My hubby's friend, a male, also is a serious cyclist in diguise and he has heard his share of condescending quips from bike shop boys.

You know, not every cyclist is built like a greyhound.

[sundial]

I get sick and tired of going to new gyms, fitness equipment shops, GNC type places, bike shops, etc and basically getting ignored or belittled. I walk in with my average sized husband and they immediately zone in on him. I'm the one with the fitness/sports/cycling knowledge, interest and history. He just happens to look the part and apprently, I don't. SOOOO frustrating.

That reminds me of a funny story. Some time ago I was an AFAA certified aerobics instructor and I taught step aerobics. We moved from the town that I used to teach and after we moved to the new location, I decided to join a mom and pop fitness center. I learned that they taught aerobics and I decided to drop by after work and ask about the program.

The so called instructor gave me a good look and suggested that I might be more comfortable in the back, where the new people and large people like to be. :rolleyes:

[indigoiis]

I think it goes both ways.
Sometimes, we women go in assuming the bike shop will treat us a certain (prejudiced?) way, and we carry our attitudes with us.

I try to go in and give them a quick "spec sheet" about me: in a nutshell - this is what I ride, how long I've been riding, what I am here for.

They want to sell stuff to you. that's their job. Make it easy for them and you may be rewarded with a quick and easy transaction, and a good relationship.

[mimitabby]

Sundial, great story.
My experience in bike shops (when I'm noticed at all) is that they act very uncertain because they can't categorize me. I'm old but not overweight. It's kind of fun (when i'm noticed at all)

bad experience: when i was trying to get my bianchi to fit me, we decided we'd put a steel fork on it. I went to the bikeshop (eastside bikeshop) without DH so it was just me and the people that work there; all 30 and under. I told them i wanted a steel fork and 4 or 5 of them insisted that carbon was better... They actually ganged up on me!
So i wasted my $$$ and got another carbon fork. I got home and DH said "I thought you were getting steel?!?!?" I was outnumbered, they didn't listen, they all knew SO MUCH MORE than ME. :confused:

I did not buy a bike from them.

[KnottedYet]

Just had an odd bike shopping experience!

During my lunchbreak I went to the same shop that needed prompting to pay attention to me. I needed a t-handled 5mm wrench and bar tape. I had my "L" Allen with me, so I could show them how it was too short to reach into the brake lever and measure it against a T handle to be sure it would fit.

Desk chickie wasn't sure what I was asking for, but was trying to help. A *customer* (man in his 20's) was being a royal pain! He was insisting that what I already had would work, that the "Y" handle with the stubby wrench part was just the same, that all I needed was to buy a set of "L" wrenches and take the ring off, and got mad at me when I kept saying no!

I went to the back of the shop to the mechanic, cuz I figured he would at least take me seriously enough to listen long enough to know what I was asking. Nice guy, treated me well. He found the same brake-only lever and tried the 'Y' they sell on it, showed me how to trim it with a knife to make it fit into the lever. Whew!

[elk]

I Love that you call him Sparky; that kills me!!!

I can now see why the Bike Gallery consistently wins high marks as a LBS here...the mechanics are older, the salespeople are totally NOT snobbish. I think they figured out the customer service part....

I just wish more women worked in bike shops...thats one
thing I like about River City. I ASKED for a woman salesperson, got one, and she was great. Made me try 3 different sizes of the same bike....

In the end I had to pick between a 52 that fit great but didn't have a walk through...and a 53 that did. I took the 53.

not quite sure what that has to do with it...:rolleyes:

[sundial]

I'm waiting for Knotted to open a women friendly bike shop. She can instruct the gals how to choose the right bike, maintenance, and most importantly, good footwear with the correct insoles. ;)

[El Hombre]

I used to manage a shop. First thing I learned was to keep my eyes and ears open and my mouth shut :D That policy saved my bacon daily.:D

Knotted - These (http://www.pedros.com/product.aspx?productID=6451550) are the wrenches you need. They are ball ended so you can get at stuff at wonky angles.

[KnottedYet]

El Hombre - those are so beautiful they bring tears to my eyes.

So far I've trimmed the "handle" of the 5mm and 6mm ends of my $5.95 "Y" Allen wrench so they fit in the brake lever and the bar-con stopper.

I'm really trying to love the bike shop down near where I work, but nothing compares to my LBS: www.recycledcycles.com I was having trouble with the bar-cons just a few minutes ago, and called them for help. They were closed (winter hours now) and in a staff meeting, but they put me on speaker phone so they could brainstorm to help me.

I love LOVE Recycled Cycles!:D

[DirtDiva]

'K, so mine aren't as flash as those Pedros numbers, but the first bike tool I bought was a set of decently-long, ball-ended allen keys. So fricken' useful.

[Mr. Bloom]

After we got married in 1986, Silver took auto mechanics with a couple of women from work.

A few months into our marriage, we went to buy a car.

While Silver is under the hood talking with the salesman about rack and pinion "this" and fuel injected "that", I'm inside playing with the stereo buttons going "this is really cool!" and feeling the upholstery!:rolleyes:

The salesman couldn't process this at all.:rolleyes:

So, I told Silver to negotiate the price of the car.:eek:

We knew we did the right thing when, after two days of haggling, she set the price that we were willing to pay and the sales MANAGER said "shouldn't I be talking to your husband?":eek: :eek: :cool:

Well, Silver got a great deal and I'm convinced it was because SHE knew what she was talking about and THEY couldn't handle a strong minded woman with knowledge!:p :p

Next time someone treats you like a "little girl", you show them what you know!;) :D :p

[CR400]

I can't remember having to endure this at any of the bike shops I have been to. But I usually go in acting and knowing what is going on and what I want. I hate to be pesterd by sales people until I have a question I want anwserd. The only problem I had was when I first got my bike I should have made sure it was a better fit, and had them replace the 172 cranks with 170 before I left the shop. I have been reaping this stupidity for years now.

[Kimmyt]

I recently posted on a ski related forum I go to, but this seemed relevant. I went into a ski shop to look at gear and immediately a salesman asked me what color I was looking for while I looked at the (pitiful) selection of skis they had.

I walked right back out, but then came right back in to tell the idiot that his idea of humor, wasn't.

K.

[rij73]

Once I went into a shop and started talking bikes with a *woman* salesperson. After a while, she says, "Wow, you are a TRIP! You gotta come back when the owner is in. He's going to get such a kick out of you... You've got the lingo down and *everything*!"

I wasn't sure how to react. I just laughed and told her that I tend to get obsessive over my interests. But, she was a woman who knew about bikes. Should she have acted *so* surprised at my level of knowledge?

In fact, I did come in when the owner was there. He acted as normal as could be, and we had a great talk about bikes. He didn't seem surprised at all... Go figure!

That reminds me of another story. A few months ago my car broke down and I needed it towed. I usually deal with all the car issues, since I'm home all the time, and DH is quite busy. Our car (which I adore) is a 1996 Saturn SL. It has *no* power steering and is a stick shift. Mind you, I live in Brooklyn, which requires me moving the car once a week for street cleaning rules, and I always must parallel park. This is something I'm totally used to, and don't give it a second thought. Of course it's harder than an automatic with power steering, but big deal, right?!

So, the tow truck driver gets in the car to release the brake so he can tow it. He realizes the car's "features", and gets out, looks at me incredulously, and says in the absolute most sincere way, "You mean to tell me a sweet little thing like you actually drives and parks this car in the city???" Again, I didn't even know what to say! I wasn't angry, but just amazed at how wrong that whole question even was!

[sundial]

Knotted, sounds like you have experienced bike shop Nirvana. :)

KimmyT, I can't believe the nerve of that person. I would have selected a ski and *accidentally* bumped his noggin with it on my way out the door. Color my foot! ;)

Mr. Silver, I usually wrap up the deals when we buy vehicles. My husband just sits there and smiles as he watches the salesperson's expression change as I calculate his bull on paper.

[Bklynmom]

Bike shops could take a leaf from our local Jack Rabbit running/tri store.

I go to a bike shop where a coach friend works, but when he's not there it is a nightmare, just like everyone else describes.

At Jack Rabbitt (7th Avenue in Park Slope Brooklyn) , the manager always helps me, even the teenagers are really respectful. I had a very informative discussion about recovery drinks with a 20 year old triathlete with zero attitude at all. And I certainly don't fit the athletic profile in terms of size and age. They are supportive and encouraging and not at all condescending at all - sometimes I just go in to buy a little something because they are so positive and they give me a boost.

All this is to say it is totally possible to have an athletic store with a great vibe -- how come there just isn't a bike store like that?

[Irulan]

I once got respect in a bike shop just for walking in with my spd shoes aaaaand ... Impeach Bush bike socks.

where did you get those?

It's much more productive to have a nice chat with the manager than to walk out annoyed and never go back. While the chances are 50-50 that the manager will "get it", IMNSHO it's worth it to try and do a little gentle education.

As a small business owner myself, I'd rather know where I've got room for improvement, or where my employees need to improve, than to have people go out and talk negatively about my business.

[onimity]

Wow, you ladies make me feel really lucky!

From the moment I walked into my LBS they listened to what *I* wanted and treated me with respect. They always encourage (and teach) me to fix things myself.

I first went in there a little over a year ago, my previous MTB had been stolen years before but it kind of turned me off on bikes, never fit well, heavy, chain always dropped. So I told the guy at the LBS that I wanted a hybrid (with the intent of taking it around town & on some easy trails). I was mostly looking to get used to riding a bike again before riding the "World's most dangerous road" in Bolivia. He told me that he would suggest a (similarly priced) MTB, because I could always put slicks on it if city riding was my thing, but it would increase the range of trails open to me. Then he went on: and you can always put racks and fenders on it if you want to start commuting on it...come in for our free maintenance class next week & learn to change a flat...they fit the bike to me really well & while I initially laughed at the commuting thing I was back there in a few months for the rack. And he was right about the versatility...I quickly became hooked on MTBing.

Now I am planning my first long solo touring trip and they are *so* helpful. The mechanic is helping me learn how to repair the most likely things to break and they are full of good advice even suggesting products they don't carry in some cases over products they do. They are going to let me bring an old bike in to work on it in their shop (myself) so I can ask questions when I have them. (they have a workstand and tools set up for the public) Of course I buy almost all of my bike gear from them because I really love their supportive attitude & respect.

So sorry that so many of you have been treated poorly by your LBSs, you'd think that they'd get out of the stone age sooner or later! I know the feeling though, I teach highly technical engineering courses & look a fair amount younger than I am; I get everything from skeptical looks to 'YOU are teaching THIS course?!?' Um, yea. Sometimes you just have to bite your tongue and show people that genitalia doesn't figure into intelligence or capability for abstract thought. But then again, those people are paying me! I'd have a hard time giving my LBS any business if they copped that sort of attitude.

Anne

[light_sabe_r]

I've had a good experience and a bad experience all wrapped up into one when I was buying my roadie.

I'd just been on a group ride on my very clunky hybrid. I'd had enough and BF and I decided it was time to start shopping for a Roadie.

So we rocked up in our bike gear at a bike shop on the way back that was reknowned for stocking SUB bikes and Specialized. So we went in.

I was served by a brilliant woman. She was a mountain bike enthusiast and after telling her what I was after she came took me through everything I wanted to know. When I was test riding stuff I gave her my feedback and she agreed with me based on her experience or explained what I was experiencing based on the spec sheet.

She was a GREAT servicewoman and Bike shops need more sales people like her! (She was also the mechanic! ^_^ Too bad the store's half the way to ipswich which is too far to ride)

BAD EXPERIENCE:
While she was serving me the owner of the store could sense a sale and came over to add his two cents in. Based on the bikes I was leaning towards he told me That I'd probably be better off with the lower model "because it comes in pink" He just ASSUMED... Sure I loved pink. But I hated the 2006 model sub zero.1. I test road it and it wasn't that much of an improvement on what I was riding already.

The woman serving me wasn't happy after this exchange. She thought I'd do better with the higher sub zero.pro model because I liked the ultegra and it was a lighter machine.

moral of the story: There are some jerks out there. But there are also some really enthusiastic people who love their job and want to see you walk out of their store 100% happy with your purchases.

[BadgerGirl]

Wow, you ladies make me feel really lucky!

From the moment I walked into my LBS they listened to what *I* wanted and treated me with respect. They always encourage (and teach) me to fix things myself.

I first went in there a little over a year ago, my previous MTB had been stolen years before but it kind of turned me off on bikes, never fit well, heavy, chain always dropped. So I told the guy at the LBS that I wanted a hybrid (with the intent of taking it around town & on some easy trails). I was mostly looking to get used to riding a bike again before riding the "World's most dangerous road" in Bolivia. He told me that he would suggest a (similarly priced) MTB, because I could always put slicks on it if city riding was my thing, but it would increase the range of trails open to me. Then he went on: and you can always put racks and fenders on it if you want to start commuting on it...come in for our free maintenance class next week & learn to change a flat...they fit the bike to me really well & while I initially laughed at the commuting thing I was back there in a few months for the rack. And he was right about the versatility...I quickly became hooked on MTBing.

Now I am planning my first long solo touring trip and they are *so* helpful. The mechanic is helping me learn how to repair the most likely things to break and they are full of good advice even suggesting products they don't carry in some cases over products they do. They are going to let me bring an old bike in to work on it in their shop (myself) so I can ask questions when I have them. (they have a workstand and tools set up for the public) Of course I buy almost all of my bike gear from them because I really love their supportive attitude & respect.

So sorry that so many of you have been treated poorly by your LBSs, you'd think that they'd get out of the stone age sooner or later! I know the feeling though, I teach highly technical engineering courses & look a fair amount younger than I am; I get everything from skeptical looks to 'YOU are teaching THIS course?!?' Um, yea. Sometimes you just have to bite your tongue and show people that genitalia doesn't figure into intelligence or capability for abstract thought. But then again, those people are paying me! I'd have a hard time giving my LBS any business if they copped that sort of attitude.

Anne


I live in Colorado...please share you LBS' name :) Pretty please, with sugar on top...don't make me beg...

[sundial]

Badger Girl I like your avatar. What's your gsd's name? :)

OK, I had a neat experience yesterday at our LBS. I was talking to the mechanic, telling him about my latest adventure on the bike when he asked,"Have you lost weight? You look different." :) I wanted to reach over the register and give him a hug.

[onimity]

Hey BadgerGirl,

Of course! I go to Full Cycle (http://www.fullcyclebikes.com), they have two stores in Boulder, one on the hill and one on Pearl St. They also have a store in the Ft. that I haven't been to.

That's awesome that you are in Erie! We should ride some time!

Anne

[BadgerGirl]

He he Anne, and I thought there was something better than Full Cycle. LOL, that is where I currently shop...I should have known better. They are great there, very patient and will tweek your bike right then is something isn't right. Always there to answer questions. I would love to ride with you Anne! :)

SunDial, I love your pic too. My dog 's name is Timberwolf, or Timber for short. I love dogs and I can't wait until I have a whole farm of dogs running around. And a whole stable of bicycles too! What is your dog's name?

[sundial]

What is your dog's name?

Well, let's see. As for the gsds, I have Kali the long legged all-American girl, Niki, the gently used sable import, and Luke, my senior citizen foster boy. Then I have Jodi, the neurotic australian shepherd. Here are the furkids:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/2dogcrew/nikijodikali.jpg

Be careful what you wish for. If you are like me, you'll end up a gsd magnet and have fosters running all over the place. ;)