Trek Women Who Ride [Archive] - Women's Cycling Discussion Forums

Trek420

09-22-2007, 05:59 PM

I think it would be kind of cool to read about a whole family of sisters who got into riding.

You mean like DoW and me? Well that's just two...add her daughter also therefore my niece UK....three....

and since I'm a big butch fagg*t I got all happy

You are? Well, taller than me :rolleyes: ;)

Since I'm 51 I was glad to see age difference. I would have liked some weight difference too. There are a few who've lost quite a bit and kept it off cycling but where are the women riding and flourishing with an extra pound or two?

There's a theory in design when you want to show diversity "show everything or show nothing". Not just people-type-diversity but the cafe that serves a variety, the store that carries everything etc. You show allllllll the stuff....or you show an abstraction like an abstraction of food or store items.

With people that can end up like the ads for a clinic in CA that serves a variety of people, the poster was on the side of the bus with 30' long line of every type of person. But yeah, coulda been better.

Then I thought WTHeck. Nice try, maybe the next group. Still nothing compared to the wit and wisdom of TE ..... and came back here.

This is where the "women who ride" really are. :cool: Long live TE :D

VeloVT

09-22-2007, 06:39 PM

I do find the whiteness troubling. It's pretty striking. Heck, if not a single non-caucasian person applied, they really should have fabricated someone :mad: or waited to publish the article until they could recruit someone. I live in what is very possibly the least diverse state in the union and I have met a number of non-caucasian cyclists in the past year (all of whom live here), so I doubt the task is impossible.

So we can't forget that this is, at the bottom line, a marketing piece. But even if the largest market segment is still white, I still have this pollyannaish attitude that business, like politics, **should** as a gesture of goodwill towards the consumers, current & potential, that keep it afloat, strive to reflect as inclusive a community as possible.

yeah, I'm pretty naive.

I suppose it's possible that it's simply an oversight, though that seems hard to believe given what Trek likely spends on marketing. And, frankly, in this day and age, as far as diversity is concerned, sins of omission are just as offensive as sins of commission.

(getting off of high horse...)

Zen

09-22-2007, 07:26 PM

Maybe no one of color responded . . . did you ever think of THAT?

For about a nanosecond. The odds are highly unlikely.
Liza and Trek expressed it well.

Trekhawk

09-22-2007, 09:38 PM

Heck, if not a single non-caucasian person applied, they really should have fabricated someone :mad:

You are joking about that right??
Im sure most "non-caucasian" cyclists would be offended by that.:confused:

sandra

09-23-2007, 05:02 AM

Regardless of color, I just want to comment that I am so inspired by Marie, the 60 year old widow that started cycling!!!

VeloVT

09-23-2007, 05:55 AM

You are joking about that right??
Im sure most "non-caucasian" cyclists would be offended by that.:confused:

Surely I expressed that badly, and I apologize if I offended anyone. The idea that I wanted to express was that sometimes its necessary to take proactive measures to ensure diversity (though, of course, not extending to fabricating it!). Actually, I think in most public settings, it's not simply "sometimes" necessary but always necessary.

But I don't want to be too harsh on Trek. I'm glad they are doing more to cater to women riders.

SlowButSteady

09-23-2007, 06:56 AM

I would have liked some weight difference too. There are a few who've lost quite a bit and kept it off cycling but where are the women riding and flourishing with an extra pound or two?

Right here with an extra forty or so pounds. Cycling for two years and still plus-sized. I feel discriminated against, also. Not feeling welcome in groups...the sideways glances...a few remarks on cause rides...the inability to find pretty and functional clothes, much less clothes that actually are cycling clothes that I can squeeze into.

I was very glad to see a couple of women there who look like they weigh more than 100 pounds. Somewhere along the line I was "sold" the idea that if I started cycling, I wouldn't be fat for very long. :( It didn't work and I feel somewhat militant about the fact that heavier people can be in excellent shape.

Sorry...I'm new here and don't mean to hijack y'all's topic.

Trek420

09-23-2007, 07:45 AM

Sorry...I'm new here and don't mean to hijack y'all's topic.

Right here in the back of the pack militant with ya! No apology needed, you're right on the topic. Welcome to TE!

Oh, and the clothes thing? .... Check the selection right here 8-)

www.teamestrogen.com/categories.asp?catID=53

PinkBike

09-24-2007, 10:08 AM

yeh i would've liked to seen at least one heavier bicyclist. but it's trek, they're trying to sell bikes, so they need to sell the image that if you ride you will eventually look like so-and-so.
i'm glad they did the project and hope it turns out ok.
so far it seems every other outfit that wants to do a "women who ride" type of thing end up concentrating on fashion and cookbooks and other redbook-type concerns. i dont care about fashion or cooking or makeovers, i just love to ride. i love aching lungs and burning thighs. i love fast descents. i love the feeling of riding and i wanna do it all the time. that's why i'm here at TE.
that's why i wanted one of us to be one of the trek women.

as for the people of color, i dont think you should force diversity for diversity's sake. they only chose 5 women. forcing them to select one black woman, one hispanic, one asian, one native american, one i-apologize-for-not-including-your-race, it really wouldn't be about the women who ride. it would be tokenism at best. i dont need to see someone of my race or even my gender to identify with them. when i'm struggling up a mountain i feel like i'm alberto contador, i picture him in my mind, i identify with that picture.

i'm going to wait and see if this "trek women who ride" ends up being about real women who ride, i'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now.

rij73

09-24-2007, 10:48 AM

I'm glad to see at least *something* from a big company that really draws attention to women who cycle, but, yeah... I gotta say I didn't appreciate the lack of diversity. Not only are they all white, but they are super-white! Not even a black hair among them. (I'm a latina with black hair...)

On this page: http://www.trekbikes.com/women/ it says, "Five women just like you..." Oops! :o

Zen

09-24-2007, 12:17 PM

I'm glad to see at least *something* from a big company that really draws attention to women who cycle,

I've been thinking about this.
Have you ever seen an ad for bikes on television on any channel other than versus or ESPN?
I would think TV advertising would be an effective tool. There must be women who would love to ride but feel intimidated. Seeing a woman on a Townie or riding with her family might make it seem possible.

Trek420

09-24-2007, 12:33 PM

I've been thinking about this.
Have you ever seen an ad for bikes on television on any channel other than versus or ESPN?
I would think TV advertising would be an effective tool. There must be women who would love to ride but feel intimidated. Seeing a woman on a Townie or riding with her family might make it seem possible.

Not gonna happen :( I don't even think Trek or any of the other "big" bike companies have the funds for an ad campaign.

It would take all of them together doing ads for cycling.

There's a ton of "product placement". Seems like every TV spot has a bike.

rij73

09-24-2007, 12:51 PM

It's a shame... I think it just doesn't even occur to lots of adults that riding a bike would be fun, healthy, useful, etc. Someone should be able to raise money for TV ads... What about Critical Mass or Transportation Alternatives? (Though we don't have to get into a discussion of those groups and their methods!) :p

Kimmyt

09-24-2007, 01:25 PM

It's a shame... I think it just doesn't even occur to lots of adults that riding a bike would be fun, healthy, useful, etc.

I don't know... there has to be a reason all those pharmaceutical companies use screenshots of aging folks having fun riding bikes to give off a 'healthy' image and sell their ads.... if it weren't selling their product, they wouldn't use it, so obviously folks associate riding bikes with healthy living...or perhaps it is associated with youth.

slmdunc

09-24-2007, 02:08 PM

The problem with marketing to and for females in athletics spans to many sports. My partner and I have been watching the current Women's World Cup (soccer) - and we are blown away by the lack of attention it gets in the mainstream area of sports. The U.S. beat England the other day in the Quarter Finals, and it was buried in the middle section of the NYTimes sports section on Sunday, with just a little blurb announcing it. It's a HUGE win, and yet - as with most female sports - it gets largely ignored.

Zen, I have been thinking about the marketing as well... I wish they would market more to females for all sorts of sports, namely biking. One could say, well, there is not a big enough market to spend those kind of advertising dollars - and yet - if one WERE to spend some money advertising it, the market would GROW. Catch 22.

So - in conclusion - yes, the Trek campaign is seriously lacking in diversity, but AT LEAST it's something. Baby steps maybe.

Zen

09-24-2007, 02:49 PM

So - in conclusion - yes, the Trek campaign is seriously lacking in diversity, but AT LEAST it's something. Baby steps maybe.

Seems to me they're selling to those who are already buying.

I have been seeing a lot of the U.S. Women's soccer team with Nike but we know they have a ginormous ad budget. Probably the only coverage we'll see of them on network TV:(

KSH

09-24-2007, 05:49 PM

Well I liked reading the following:

Susan is best described as “A one woman show”. She made us laugh as she described her bike as her “saving grace” during her 40 months of pregnancy, 210 pound weight gain (and loss), 48 months of nursing and the hormonal battlefield she calls her bod

“Take that Cancer!” was Jen's mantra last September as she crossed the finish line at her first Danskin Triathlon.

An inspiration to eveyone who reads her story. Laura shares the trials and tribulations of her journey to lose the “extra person” she carried with her until March 13, 2007.

At 60, Marie has broken down more barriers to cycling than most. Her story of achievement is impressive and inspirational.

So, yes they are lacking diversity and darker hair color... but they picked 2 ladies who lost a lot of weight (that's inspirational- and a good reason to ride), a cancer survivor, and someone who is "older".

slmdunc

09-24-2007, 09:08 PM

I have been seeing a lot of the U.S. Women's soccer team with Nike but we know they have a ginormous ad budget. Probably the only coverage we'll see of them on network TV

I know! I love them! It's quite on topic actually... the subject of the commercial is "The Greatest Team You Never Heard Of," and the joke is the team dealing with a new PR Director, hired to "get them noticed." Hee. :p

amymisk

09-26-2007, 10:35 AM

I have to agree with Pinkbike- trek is trying to sell bikes, it is marketing. I also wouldn't want to force diversity for diversity's sake. There are minorities who ride, but cycling is primarily a middle to upper class sport. It is a very expensive sport/hobby and not widely marketed. Our culture is focused on other sports, not cycling. It is great to see some marketing regarding cycling. I also don't need someone who looks like me to relate to. I love the Alberto Contador example.

Speaking of marketing, there is a Volvo commercial out featuring a "mom" cyclist on a journey of some sort with her husband as the sag driver of a volvo. Cute commercial, and shows cycling.

Bicycling magazine has been critized for using models, instead of real cyclists. They too are trying to sell the image of cycling.

I hope it all works out well for Trek and it is nice to see something focusing on women and that might inspire others to get out and ride.

Zen

09-26-2007, 12:50 PM

There are minorities who ride, but cycling is primarily a middle to upper class sport. I'm sure you didn't mean that like it sounded
It is a very expensive sport/hobby and not widely marketed. It can be very expensive but it doesn't have to be. I just want to see women unafraid to ride. They don't have to do centuries in $200 shoes.
Our culture is focused on other sports, not cycling. It is great to see some marketing regarding cycling. But the marketing is being done on the Trek site. They're preaching to the choir. I would be thrilled to see a one page ad in Ladies Home Journal or People showing a fifty year old woman riding a three speed in the park with her family.

Speaking of marketing, there is a Volvo commercial out featuring a "mom" cyclist on a journey of some sort with her husband as the sag driver of a volvo. Cute commercial, and shows cycling. Yes, but it shows someone who has invested a lot of money and devotes a lot of time and treats cycling as a sport. I want to see them reach the masses, especially considering the downhill slide of the health of our society.

I hope it all works out well for Trek and it is nice to see something focusing on women and that might inspire others to get out and ride. I hope so too, but if they only run this campaign on their web site who's gonna see it?

rij73

09-26-2007, 01:57 PM

There are minorities who ride, but cycling is primarily a middle to upper class sport.

Ummmm...... I, like ZenCentury, am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didn't really mean that as it sounded too. I love the positivity on this forum so I won't delve into the implications I read in that sentence. Please just be careful when writing about such hot-button issues. You might unintentionally hurt someone's sensibilities.

KSH

09-26-2007, 02:18 PM

You know, this thread got me thinking... how many minorities do I see when I ride.

I belong to a cycling club in Dallas, TX. We have a large membership and I go on different rides around the city.

I can honestly tell you that in 3 years of riding with my club, I have only seen one African-American woman ride with us. ONE. And I only met her once.

We have one African-American gentleman that rides with us. ONE. I see him often. I also use to know 2 other African-American gentlemen that rode with another club.

I do know of one Hispanic man that rides with us on a regular basis.

Now, what is the reasoning for this... couldn't tell you. As with any "study", there are so many factors... it's hard to say what the cause is. I just know that I don't see many minorities on our rides.

If we put women in general in as a minority, I will say that the women are always out numbered by the men, unless it's a gender specific ride. In fact, 2 of my 3 rides last week... I was the only girl in a group of 6-10 guys.

Geonz

09-26-2007, 02:41 PM

I love the way folks can put out opinions and still be respectful.

I sent in my essay for "women who ride." All you had to do was send an essay, oh, and three photographs, so I would imagine they got ***lots and lots*** of applications. I noticed that the applications were due at the end of April... but entrants were supposed to be prepared to start their exciting year of touring and blogging... May 1.
I believe it was Mid-July before they made their selections - despite a couple of emails saying "we'll pick by ___" and it not happening. All the evidence says it was a committee of folks who may or may not have consciously considered The Diversity Question; if I remember right they made a point that they were looking for "all ages," and said stuff like whether we rode for a cause like environmentalism... which I considered could have been 'cause they wanted to weed those folks out ;)
There were also some pretty fundamental flaws in their website about their "women's tour" - Illinois was an "eastern state" if you clicked on it... but the events were actually listed (oddly enough ;)) under the midwest, as just one example. That one they didn't fix; I emailed the contacts about it and at least one other, which they did fix. Their site is pretty consistently flawed (and then there's the content: "Ten best reasons to commute by bike," half of which involved having "fun" dodging heavy traffic, which of course is what *intimidates* people from commuting, so I'd have to call that one a marketing faux pas ).

So. IMO, they've got a marketing budget... but not particularly good *skills* in the craft.
When I saw who was picked (only because I kept going back to the site and probing and searching - *not* because they plunked it front and center or sent it out in their email right away) I thought, "wow... those folks are poster ladies... they're the Hallmark Channel STories of cycling." Then summer was over and I've been working a lot harder and surfing a lot less - but I have wondered whether the individuals would stay Hallmarky for the whole year... and whether they would actually gather a community around them or not. I did duly notice that they were all white folks, and figured it was the usual unconsciously homogenous thinking that steered things that way.
I agree that in a sense they are singing at the choir (not even preaching... but trying to *do* at us what we are already doing) as opposed to trying to make cycling look accessible to the masses. Reckon it's up to us to do that ;)

rij73

09-26-2007, 02:49 PM

KSH, I guess one of the reasons for what you describe could be regional. Here in Brooklyn, minorities are actually the majority of bike riders.

slmdunc

09-26-2007, 06:57 PM

KSH, I guess one of the reasons for what you describe could be regional. Here in Brooklyn, minorities are actually the majority of bike riders.

I have to agree. In LA, we have all sorts of folks who ride.

velogirl

09-27-2007, 08:14 AM

I think much depends on which segment of the bicycling market you're looking at. In many metropolitan areas, you will find a very diverse cycling community, however, much of the diversity is focused on riding for transportation (ie the "invisible" cyclists). These are the folks who ride because of necessity -- transportation to work because they can't afford a car. The average price of a bike for this type of cyclist is probably less that $100.

Then there are the commuters -- folks who use their bike for transportation by choice (not by necessity). While there is still some diverstiy in this segment, you typically see more affluence (and bikes in the $250 - $1,000 range).

But many of you have cited examples from the recreational riding community. These are the folks who are riding for pleasure or fitness or competition (and their bikes typically range in the $800+ category). In that segment, we really don't see a lot of racial diversity, even in an area as diverse as San Francisco. I can definitely say that the racial diversity in our club (Velo Girls) is not representative of the racial diversity of the greater SF area. In the past six years, we've seen good representation from the hispanic/latina community, stronger representation from the asian community, but only one or two women from the african-american community.

The demographic of recreational riders is definitely middle-aged, middle-income (or above), and white.

indigoiis

09-27-2007, 08:27 AM

In the brochure I picked up at the trek event, there are several models modeling clothes and bikes, all of them 110 lbs or less, and one of them a very pretty, athletic appearing African American gal with very big hair.

Crankin

09-27-2007, 09:38 AM

SheFly

09-27-2007, 10:03 AM

I am not sure that Amy meant anything mean when she said that cycling is primarily an upper middle class sport. I didn't misconstrue it at all; of course, we want everyone to ride! They don't need to be riding $5,000 carbon bikes and they don't need to be riding fast. But to get people who are currently sedentary to ride, the cycling community needs to market differently. I'm not a business person, so I can't address that.
However, when you look at the people who ride for fitness or race, it is primarily upper middle class white people, at least here in the Boston area. I belong to 2 clubs and I don't think I've ever seen an African American on any rides. I'm not sure how we can change this.
This reminds me of something that I witnessed many years ago. We took our kids skiing at Burke Mountain, which is way up in Vermont. It was not a popular place in the early 90s. Since I was X country skiing and they were downhill, we decided to meet up in the lodge. As we were getting ready to leave, we heard a very distinguished looking older African American man say quite loudly to a white kid, "What's the matter? You've never seen a Black man skiing?" We assumed the kid must have been rudely staring at the man, but everyone laughed when he said this.

Quad Cycles has a really good Cat 4 African American racer. He's a great racer and very friendly to talk to at the races as well. There is also an African American rider that lives in Bedford - I think he's mostly a commuter, but may do some racing as well. You are right though - in this area it is more white people.

I will, however, argue, at least from a race and my club perspective, the upper middle class differntiation. We have A LOT of young, just starting out in life, racers and club members who don't have a lot of extra income, and wouldn't consider themselves "upper middle class"; likewise, trades-people/"blue collar" workers. I know a lot of riders who scrounge for spare parts, cheap, used, free to be able to fuel their passion. Not everyone is out racing on expensive bikes - a couple of racers/friends I know just bought complete 'cross bikes (no-name) for under $800 - was all they could afford. I also have friends who have just gone out and bought custom Sevens...

Here's what I LOVE about cycling - it doesn't matter to me what color you are, what you do for a living, what your social status is. As long as we have cycling in common, all of that goes out the window and is irrelevant. This is a great sport in that sense.

I do also agree with Velogirl - different levels of "cyclists" out there.

SheFly

p.s.
Robyn - DH grew up near Burke, and an African American skiing would defnitely draw some looks from the locals...

amymisk

09-27-2007, 11:25 AM

Thanks Robyn for your reply.

The trouble with writing, sometimes the message gets misconstrued or misunderstood.

I said it is primarily a white middle to upper class sport. When I watch pro racers, ride around my home, and in charity rides, in magazines, I see primarily white cyclists.

I love the sport and this site and didn't want to offend anyone. I was making an observation.

Geonz is probably right about the marketing group for Trek, have the money, need help in the skill.

I still also believe that this country doesn't see cycling as a "sport" like they view Football, Hockey, Baseball, and Basketball. If they only knew how dangerous cycling can be! I would love to see more mainstream information/marketing for cycling, but in our current society, I don't think it will happen.

I know that this is a sport for anyone and most cyclists are very welcoming and encouraging.

Andrea

09-27-2007, 12:57 PM

I applied for this as an aspiring racer. I'm a huge supporter of women's racing, and I think that the fact that they didn't pick someone (definately doesn't have to be me- just SOMEONE) more involved with racing shows how not even the big manufacturers of the sport care too much about women's racing. It's painfully obvious that they don't feel that highly competitive women are a valuable demographic to market to. Instead, they wanted to tug on the emotional heartstrings of the average Caucasian-American female who, at one point in life, has struggled through some sort of personal hardship- whether it's been body image, illness, or the like.
I think that this type of thing inadvertently discourages women from competitive cycling. I feel like they are sending the message that rather than competing with each other, we should just focus on ourselves. It's not that I don't think that overcoming personal hardship isn't an important, life-changing process. I just think it's pretty sad that they didn't include someone to represent those of us who aspire to achieve victory over our opponents as well.

velogirl

09-27-2007, 02:37 PM

Andrea

09-27-2007, 03:57 PM

Hey Andrea! I'll share with you something most industry insiders will tell you -- bike racers don't sell bikes and bike racers don't buy bikes. Meaning that a shop employee or even a recreational rider will have a much broader reach and influence the purchase of a certain brand more readily than a racer will.

Another thought is that you're already part of a sponsored team. Interesting that Trek used to be the bike sponsor for Team Kenda but now Blue is. Blue is a competitor of Trek, so it would be difficult for you to remain on your team and also be sponsored by Trek in the Women Who Ride promotion.

Yeah, I definately see how that wouldn't work out now, but at the time of the applications, I was just racing for a local team. It would just be nice to see them include at least one woman who had aspirations of racing. Women's racing needs all the promotion it can get!

velogirl

09-27-2007, 04:23 PM

you know, there are also lots of riders who are not racers who resent or don't care for racers. some folks believe that women who race (or men who race) have "attitude" and are dangerous riders (especially on the big group rides).

Lorri (I race, BTW, but wanted to mention this)

crazycanuck

09-27-2007, 04:39 PM

I hope it's cool for me to chime in although i'm not in the US.

In terms of racial diversity & cycling here in the Perth region, i've never seen an Aboriginal Australian at any cycling event. Again, it's due to $$.

The only role models for young aboriginal australians are in footy (aussie rules).

MOre later.

C

Kano

09-27-2007, 07:51 PM

So, here's MY opinion...

The PROBLEM I'm seeing with the Trek Women Who Ride promotion is NOT with the promotion itself, or the women who were chosen.

It's here. In the reaction to this group of women who were chosen.

WOMEN were chosen.

They weren't any KIND of women, aside from being women who ride bikes as opposed to women who do not ride bikes.

The PROBLEM with this "diversity" thing is that it requires us to look at a group of people as

Women
Men
Black
White
Yellow
Red
Christian
Non-christian
Fat
Thin
Old
Young
and the list goes on....

That "diversity" problem won't go away until we stop looking at people and seeing the need to see "diversity."

So, IMO, it doesn't matter what these women look like or don't look like. It doesn't matter what their incomes are, or how they earn it. It doesn't matter.

They're women, ordinary women who have faced challenges of one sort or another in their lives (and who hasn't?), and they ride bikes.

Karen in Boise

sgtiger

09-27-2007, 08:13 PM

Thank-you Karen, you've managed to put into words the thought I was having but I didn't know quite how to express. Perhaps those chosen were picked because they had the most inspirational stories.

Zen

09-27-2007, 08:19 PM

BikeMomma

09-27-2007, 09:04 PM

WOMEN were chosen.

They weren't any KIND of women, aside from being women who ride bikes as opposed to women who do not ride bikes.
.....
That "diversity" problem won't go away until we stop looking at people and seeing the need to see "diversity."

So, IMO, it doesn't matter what these women look like or don't look like. It doesn't matter what their incomes are, or how they earn it. It doesn't matter.

They're women, ordinary women who have faced challenges of one sort or another in their lives (and who hasn't?), and they ride bikes.

Karen in Boise

Karen.....quite simply, thank you. :)
~BikeMomma

Kano

09-27-2007, 10:30 PM

Karen-
Don't forget the program is billed as "Women Who Ride- Five women just like you".
If they want to play it like that they should give us a little diversity.

They're nothing like me. They're nothing like Andrea and Velogirl who race. They're nothing like Slowbutsteady who would like to lose some weight, and they're nothing like rij17, a latina (a large part of our population in many income levels).

i think when this all plays out it might come under the heading of "it seemed like a good idea at the time".

The truth of the matter is that nobody is just like anybody else.

These five women have each faced their own life challenges and have chosen bike riding as a way to get through the day. We here on TE are a multitude of women who have each faced our life challenges and have chosen bike riding as a way to get through the day.

Without looking very far beyond the photo on the front page, I found that one races single track. Two do triathalons. One rides a hybrid. One's a mom who rides her road bike to recharge her mommy batteries. There's diversity in their riding styles. If we look a little farther, we'll certainly also find diversity in their reasons for choosing riding.

The point in my original post is that we weren't looking very deeply at these women as we complained about a lack of "diversity." I'm saddened that we are judging this book by its cover.

For what it's worth, my guess is that the "strategy" for this campaign is to sell riding a bike to "Jane Average." It's similar to Martha Stewart recently signing with SVP to promote sewing as a hobby. People who are avid, top of the line sewing machine owners appear to be in quite a tizzy about this, but they're not the target demographic.

Just like avid sewers don't need to be "sold on sewing," people who race or do superlong distance riding like some of our members don't need the sales pitch.

It takes a lot of care to choose a group of women to be "women just like you" who won't intimidate "Jane Average," and keep her on the sofa!

Yes, SO FAR we're only seeing stuff on the Trek web site, but the campaign is really just getting started. Let's see what's to come before we call it a flop, eh?

Karen in Boise

sgtiger

09-27-2007, 11:03 PM

As someone who is a member of one of the aforementioned minorities, I would be more offended to find out that they had overlooked an inspirational story to try and include a token person just so people felt better about having "diversity."

Maybe it's naive of me, but I'd like to believe that the women chosen spoke out to them. I'm sure it is a difficult decision to choose just five people when they probably received thousands of stories from women who felt they had something worthy to share. They chose individuals who were willing to share their touching stories in the hopes that we, also individuals, would find a common thread.

Do we really need to be exactly the same whatever, to identify with one another. Can we not identify with the plight of a girl left to raise her siblings in Africa (http://www.pangaea.org/street_children/africa/aids.htm) because her parents were taken by the AIDS epidemic. Or maybe a Muslim man (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/snohomishcountynews/2003783608_snosiddiqui11.html) trying to live his life in this country without being looked at as the enemy. Or a mom of a soldier (http://somesoldiersmom.blogspot.com/2007/06/invisible-wounds-army-still-doesnt-get.html) dealing with PTSD. And I'm sure almost everyone is familiar with Anne Frank (http://www.annefrank.com/). I have very little in common with these people, but yet, their lives have touched me.

Some of the responses to this thread leave me wondering if people have actually bothered to read these women's blogs. There are complaints that these Trek women are not like me because XYZ. But if you read the blogs, you'd know that there is a woman who has started to race. A woman who couldn't drop $$$ on a bike; she had to save for six months while riding a borrowed bike. A mom who is juggling her home life with training for a Tri. A woman who had bad knees who went from walking a block to biking 30+ miles. And maybe the women who lost weight are not so heavy now (Geez, they both lost at least a person each!:eek: ) but they definitely are not a size two either (not that there's anything wrong with that). And hey, who knows what these women's natural hair colors are. I know that my current color is not the color I was born with.

So, it seams to me that some of the responses are based on these women's appearances. Isn't part of "diversity" not judging others by what they look like?

These are WOMEN WHO RIDE BIKES!:cool: Isn't that what we're here for?

[end rant]

uforgot

09-28-2007, 12:12 AM

Karen and sgtiger. Thank you for your posts. I am in complete agreement, but I couldn't have put it as beautifully as you two did!

SheFly

09-28-2007, 03:54 AM

It's simple - we are all cyclists. Women, men, black, white, latina, recreational, racers, MTB, roadies - doesn't matter - cyclists one and all.

This is where DH would say S.T.F.U.A.R* :D (his phrase, but it seemed kind of appropriate).

SheFly

*Shut the F up and Ride

VeloVT

09-28-2007, 04:24 AM

Ok, I'm totally white, and you can say what you want about that, but I disagree with the views expressed most recently for the following reasons...

Advertising is different than journalism. Yes, of course, I can empathize deeply with the plights of people very different from me. But the group of people we select to be in an advertising campaign can be seen to answer one of several rhetorical questions:
1. who deserves a piece of the pie/a share of the American dream/etc
2. who do we as a society view as being the group we aspire to be like

Advertising has the power to reinforce or to change these attitudes.

Go through 20 years of Tiffany ads and I bet you'll be able to count on 0 hands the number of minorities you see -- because it's an "aspirational" brand and the aspirational myth has to do with WASPY privilege.

I think that perpetuating this kind of message through advertising is BAD.

{climbs down from soapbox}

And I have not read any of the blogs yet. And I should, because I'm sure there IS value in them. But, from my perspective, that's irrelevant to the diversity discussion.

{REALLY climbs down from soapbox}

crazycanuck

09-28-2007, 04:37 AM

I like what shefly just said :)

C

VeloVT

09-28-2007, 04:44 AM

And one more thing... I think people are getting mad at the suggestion of "diversity for diversity's sake" because it's bringing up for them the affirmative action debate -- and I am NOT going to say anything about my views on that here -- but I do think it's a mistake to view diversity in advertising as being similar to affirmative action in academia or the workplace.

Whichever side of the affirmative action debate you sympathize with, it can be agreed that there are fairness and equal treatment concerns (on both sides) that have a real impact on peoples' lives, as well as a whole host of arguments you may agree with or not about what actually is beneficial or harmful to various groups.

Advertising, though, doesn't change anyone's opportunity -- it just reflects our attitudes and perhaps plays a role in shaping them. That's not to trivialize it too much though, since attitudes play a powerful role in society...

teigyr

09-28-2007, 11:08 AM

I haven't read the blogs either and I am sure they are inspirational. I am also sure everyone who rides has a story behind it. Some stories will reach more people emotionally (things like overcoming adversity or illness) than others.

I know very little about advertising and marketing campaigns. I do know that I just got through a quarter of Advertising and Marketing in school. It was amazing just how much thought goes into it and what brings a larger return on the advertising investment. The studies that are done go way beyond typical demographics; there are even considerations such as "does this group tend to buy American" and "does this person value sense of community".

I would guess that Trek is looking at who can identify with these women and whether or not this "identifying" will sell bikes. It sounds callous but Trek could donate a lot of bikes to an orphanage and we'd say "awwww...that's so nice of them" but would we buy a Trek because of it? Maybe but a lot of people don't make their purchases due to conscience. If we see someone who lost weight or improved their life, we think that could be us and we will think of Trek in that regard.

I'd also say though that TE has more savvy people than the average and we DO look at things beyond the obvious.

It's kind of sad. I look at my company that does a lot of good things. People don't care about good things, they only care about price and how what they get will affect them. That's why companies advertise the way they do.

'course this is just me with my jaded outlook and one quarter of Advertising and Marketing :D

Geonz

09-28-2007, 11:41 AM

There's also a very, very blurry line between journalism or literature and advertising. WHen the "advertising" is a year-long blog, it's going to be more like the former.

slmdunc

09-28-2007, 01:03 PM

There's also a very, very blurry line between journalism or literature and advertising. WHen the "advertising" is a year-long blog, it's going to be more like the former.

Really? Do you truly believe that the Trek campaign will become a form of journalism? Because it is in blog form for a given length of time?

My personal line between literature, journalism and advertising is not at all blurry... maybe that's just me.

sgtiger

09-28-2007, 03:29 PM

I think we're having two entirely different discussions here. Some of us are focusing on the featured women themselves and some of us are focusing on Trek's marketing decisions. Both arguments have their validity.

It's true that nothing happens on accident in advertising. I don't doubt at all that Trek spent $$$ to hire a marketing firm to maximize their profits. And, yeah, they decided to capture their share of a growing market segment. Maybe there's even some resentment about being looked at as a marketing sector instead of as a person or a cyclist or what have you. I could be wrong on that part, but I can understand it because I have on occasion thought to myself looking at an ad, "Hmm... what are they trying to say here? Are they only featuring this person [insert demographic here] in the hopes of getting my money?"

However, these are real women. (At least, I hope they're not fabricated! Like that's never happened.:rolleyes::confused: :mad: ) Their experiences are real, although they probably signed a contract to portray Trek in a positive light in order to be considered. (Take a look at the fine print of any contest rules.) They are struggling with some of the things that we're struggling with and have shared on this forum. Such as finding time to ride around a demanding job, family, training for a Tri, overcoming challeges such as disease and trying to be more fit. I feel that if we only focus on why these women were chosen as opposed to the women themselves then we invalidate who these women are.

I could also point out that this forum is a form of advertisement for Team Estrogen. I'm sure it cost money in the way of hardware, hosting software and staffing [Thank-you Jeff!] to keep these boards operational. They probably get back their costs many times over in the forms of sales garnered from forum participants. And they have used information gleaned from this forum to determine what products to carry. Of course, they've never hidden that fact. Susan O, a buyer for TE and a forum participant herself, has from time to time, posted that they'll be carrying such and such product because of the buzz created by our posts.

How many us ,participating on this forum, have not clicked on the above link to browse the products that TE carries? Or directed someone looking for a product to take a look at TE first? Or bought an item from TE?

Zen

09-28-2007, 05:35 PM

If Trek wants to make this work as advertising I don't see how it could possibly work as it is. We don't read the blogs because we already know women like this.
What might work would be a lead-in advertisement. One page, a studio shot of a woman and her bike. A short paragraph about the woman written to target the audience for a particular type of magazine. Then something along the lines of "read about other women who ride at Trek.com" Advertising and outreach.
In my utopia, it would be nice to have a diversified outreach program. many of the comments here reflect a lack of diversity in some cycling communities and I'd like to see something done to change that. Trek's business is to sell bikes yes, but maybe they would find a wider market and sell more bikes? I don't know.

Imagine.