The Masters Swimming Thread!

[Kimmyt]

Regale us with your tales of derring-do from Masters classes (or, heck, just tell us about your latest lap session!)!

Had my first Masters class yesterday. Last year was my first season, and I entered into the class 1/2 way through so I missed the warm-fuzzy start and just got tossed into the deep end. Hah.

Yesterday it was odd because there was some new people and it felt weird to be considered the experienced one, even though there are alot of people that are faster than me, I guess now I'm officially the fastest in the slow lane? :rolleyes:

Except for this one guy who was in class for the first time, and he was really good. He had me struggling to keep up when we were doing our 75 intervals. It was nice to be pushed. Last season I found a guy who swam just a tad faster than me, and he was my favorite lane partner. This guy will probably move up lanes pretty quickly, but I was feeling okay. And The Boy survived and did pretty dang well, despite his nerves about drowning!

My foot did start to hurt again during the kick. Does anyone have any experience with wrapping a foot during a swim workout? It never hurts any other time, even in running, but when I kick it just aggravates the heck out of the tendons in the floppy part of the ankle, and normally I love kicking and am a very strong kicker so this is upsetting.

Oh, and this was fun, The Boy and I decided it was useless to fire up the car for the 1 mile drive over to class, and just as useless to get on the bike (especially considering it would be dark on the ride home). So we implemented our new form of commuting, and ran over there and then ran home, which was actually quite a nice bookend for the workout!

Yay swim season!

K.

[light_sabe_r]

Great thread Kimmyt!

I did my third class yesterday... OH MY GOD WHAT HAVE I SIGNED UP FOR!!! I'm aching all over this morning!

:eek:

I've never learnt how to swim breast stroke. Or should I say people have tried to teach me but I've failed misserably! So we were doing medleys yesterday and while I kept pace with everyone on butterfly and backstroke, I became a floundering piggy on the breaststroke... No power, no rythum, no co-ordination what's so ever. Dog paddle would have looked more dignified...

My coach is good though. And my class is small and I'm the "new girl" so they're all nice and understanding. ^_^

[Running Mommy]

Went to masters lastnight. I got Tony in the water. He's suppose to be doing IMAZ next year, so he needs masters in a bad way. He LOVED it!!
Claudio the instructor is just the BEST! He is one of those people who just makes everyone around them feel better about themselves. He's a super fast triathlete- 10th at IMAZ last year- yet he doesn't look down his nose at anyone. He's just so dang excited about his sport, and so positive.
He's working with a girl named Jen who is pregnant with twin girls. She's due in Jan but looks like she could go anytime. She is so helpful with correcting your stroke.
Yeah I'm the slowest girl in the pool. My 100 time has come down three seconds in a week! :p At a whopping 2:22.. YEE HAW! But Claudio swears there is hope for me...
I will say though that the drills are hard, the sets are hard, the kicking sets stink, but it's also a bucket o fun! I have always been so inimidated by masters, but it really isn't THAT scary. I'm bummed that I didn't find claudio sooner. I could have had a killer swim last April dang it! :cool:

[crazycanuck]

I swim twice a week with a tri group & love it. Carol(coach) is a cool gal/woman/chick/kahuna..

I might be a bit slow but I try and push myself as much as I can. I try and draft off people if i can.

I'm known to be the strong kid when it comes to kickboard drills :o I hate pull buoys..:mad:

One thing that's made a diff is my new prescription goggles :) I can see :)

I bewieve we do about 1.5km total when we swim. I'd like to do an open water swim event this summer and am using the sessions to build confidence.

I'd like to do some open water swimming practice but the water's a bit cold :eek: at the moment..that and all the storms have washed ashore some lovely looking jellyfish :eek: that i'd rather not encounter at the moment..

C

[rocknrollgirl]

Yo,
I did about 2500 last night. A timed 500, some short sprint intervals and some 100 repeats.

The good news is that the DH started sswimming with me in the pool in May and he is doing great. Two weeks ago he was able to swim all of my intervals on the short distance sets. He is doing so well. It is fun to experience it with him.


We are both worried about the cold water in Tahoe in two weeks, but whatcha gonna do!

[HillSlugger]

I'm paranoid about going to masters, thinking I'm just not good enough yet. I felt this same way about going to open lap swims so I know it's something I just need to get past. Perhaps I can psych myself up for the winter session.

Since my swimming emphasis is on swimming for triathlon what is the value in practicing strokes other than freestyle?

BTW, should we ask TE for a separate swimming forum?

[Kimmyt]

I guess everyone's season has started! :)

MD, every Masters class is different, so I think you'll have to at least try one session with yours (often the coaches will let you take part in one session to see if you like it or not) to see if you'll like it. For example, RM said her coach is a triathlete, so I imagine her class might have a bit different of a focus from mine, which is taught by an ex-competitive swimmer, and as far as I know he doesn't do tris. In fact, the majority of people in my class are competitive swimmers, taking part in USMS swim meets. There is a growing number of triathlon swimmers in our club, but our season (40 weeks) is broken up into different focus sessions. For the first month we focus on drills and technique. Then we'll start to focus on swim meet stuff, which doesn't really help me all that much with tris, but the speed sets do pay off, and my general fitness level increases alot. Then we go towards distance swims, and finally focus on open water techniques.

We are starting at easier volumes, about 1000 yards a night, reaching as high as 3000 or more during peak season.

I know what you mean about the virtues (or vices) of focusing on other strokes when you only use free. I've found it's a nice cross-training, but I don't REALLY focus, particularly on speed, other than in freestyle. For example, I try and learn all I can about the other strokes during the technique portion of the course, but once we get into the competitive swim season, there's no need for me to throw a shoulder out trying to keep up with the ex-collegiate swimmers who can do butterfly all night. I'll try and get my flip turns down, but won't focus on them later in teh season when we're doing distance, and I only bother with block dives and meet regulations as a way to keep from being bored by the same old. So I'll do any laps that have other strokes if they're slower, but if we're doing say 250 yards of butterfly, I'll do the first one or two of fly but then go on to free. I use my judgement, and the coach is pretty leniant on this stuff, but it may vary depending on your class style. I don't like to do alot of fly because it hurts my shoulders, and breaststroke for me is slower than molasses, so in the end I'll usually replace the majority of these laps with free and not feel too guilty.

K.

[HillSlugger]

My swim coach had me doing free and back. I never asked why back when she knew I was training for triathlon. I think it may have something to do with exercising the opposite groups of muscles. For me, back blows out my thighs meaning I'd be completely toasted for the ride so it's not even good as a fall-off from free in an open swim, etc. I did it when she requested it, but I never practiced it during lap swims (I can't hold a straight line and need a lane all to myself if I want to practice it).

Since I've stopped with my swim lessons I feel I need something else pushing me on. Masters may be a good thing, or maybe I'll look for another coach.

[Wahine]

I would echo what Kimmy said. You should make yourself go out and do it for 1 week then decide if you want to continue. All groups are different. I love my masters group but we're on a hiatus right now while the pool is getting maintainence.

As for the different strokes, I like Kimmy's approach. It is good to try the others. Backstroke helps to each some of the aspects of roll and body position in the water and that translates to a faster freestyle. Butterfly really works your catch at the top of the stroke and your abs, also good for your freestyle and breast stroke improves your pull through the top half of the stroke. But you also don't want to wreck your season by doing butterfly when you might be hurting your shoulder.

[teigyr]

What IS Masters? The OW coach I had swam Masters and he said I should go. I know they do some OW swims and some pool swims. There's a pool right near my house that does Masters swimming at a really convenient time to me but the group says they are gay/lesbian so I'm not so sure they'd want me.

How does one go about finding a group near them? Is it an organization (ie you are a member) or is it a group and you pay them? I never even knew it existed until about 4 weeks ago :o but now I want to keep up on swimming. Is there a website that lists all Masters groups? I tried to look and couldn't find one.

[mcoleman]

Masters is really just a swim team for adults. There is a national organization with a website that can help you find practices in your area as well as swim meets, ets-http://www.usms.org.
I am officially the slowest swimmer at our practice, but everyone including the coach is very supportive. I only really learned to swim 4 years ago for triathlons and I am still learning. My biggest accomplishment lately is breathing on both sides. We are still working on little things like butterfly & breast-I am just not coordinated enough. DH is a swimmer, which is why I started, and his theory is that the better all around swimmer you are, the easier your tri swims will be.

[Torrilin]

My swim coach had me doing free and back. I never asked why back when she knew I was training for triathlon. I think it may have something to do with exercising the opposite groups of muscles.

IME, you a better workout by swapping strokes. Less risk of a repetitive motion injury, and more muscles get worked. Also, working on form on a stroke that you'll "never use" tends to pay off. You get a better feel for how your body moves through the water under a variety of circumstances. No big deal if you're only ever in a pool, but a very big deal in open water.

I actually wish more instructors taught things like somersaults and other basic underwater gymnastics. Good way to get a "this end up" map into your brain.

[light_sabe_r]

WOW! I swam 2.5km this morning! :D We were set to do 2.8k!

I still got double lapped at one stage... But that's okay... The two people who double lapped me had been doing squad for many seasons.

I'm SOOOOOOO SLOW! and SOOOO unfit. My couch is trying to build up my water endurance so we go as far I can and when I really start to drop off the back... he makes me stop and rest. I've been told to put flippers on for the second half of the main sets because to try and just finish. To build up the base level so I can start swimming fast and keep up.

I really enjoyed it this morning though. I got to do over 300m backstroke which is my favourite. It was a fast 300 for me too. Why can't my freestyle be as fast as my backstroke eh??

I know we're supposed to do different strokes to work different muscles... But breaststroke is damn terrible! I'm trying my best... I just dunno how people do it!

Torrilin YUP. I agree. I'd love to learn turns! And somersaults are a part of that. :rolleyes:

[crazycanuck]

I had a great swim this morning but i still struggle with the recovery breast stroke lap..I just go so slow that i often just do backstroke(we're told during whatever drill we might be doing that the recovery lap can be stroke of our choice.)

Our main set was 8X 100's, timed. I went too hard out on the first 2 100's but managed a time of 2:02. It went downhill from there and the next 2 100's were 2:10.. The last 100 i can't remember :rolleyes: It was suggested to try and aim for 2:10, which i shall do on MOnday.

Kicking drills werreeee grrrrrreaaaat! Have i told you i love kicking drills :D (without a board i'm a bit wonky..)

C

psst Light-did you watch The Chasers war on everything last night?? Hhaaaaa haaaaaa

[light_sabe_r]

psst: CC... BF and I were in stiches... Got hooked last year! BF was a big of CNNNN and he got me into it!

By the way I'm glad to see that I'm not the only person who struggles with Breaststroke.

[Kimmyt]

I LOATHE breast-stroke! I really think there are two types of swimmers out there, natural breast-strokers, and natural free-stylers. Breast for me is completely painful and an exercise in futility. No matter how much I focus on form and technique, after about one lap my hips and knees have extreme pain. I've always had tight hips (certain yoga poses were torture) so it doesn't surprise me. A friend of mine is almost as fast in breast as I am in free, her body just 'gets it' more.

Class last night was good, except I decided I need The Boy to not be in my lane. I got a cramp and had to stop mid-25 sprint and he stopped too, and for some reason it just pissed me off. Do your workout, leave me alone, I'll figure it out myself, I've been doing it for a year anyway!

I think he was confused as to why I snapped at him, but I guess because last year I did swim all by myself, I realized I in some ways resent him being there with me. I like that he's taking the course, but I spend all day with him most of the time, so it's nice to at least be in seperate lanes for swim class.

:( And I feel kind of mean for feeling that way... he thinks I just don't like that he can keep up with me (to which I think, yes, you're right, in some ways I want to tromp you in class, but if you're in a different lane as me and you keep up I don't care, I just don't want you always on my back, I want something to myself).

[HillSlugger]

I understand your feelings. You want something that's yours and now you need to share swimming. Add in the "we're never apart" feeling and you have a recipe for resentment. By swimming in separate lanes at least you can concentrate on doing your own thing. That's probably a good compromise.

I swam 1500m this morning. I had planned on doing another 100m but I seem to have tweaked something in my right shoulder. :(

[Running Mommy]

Yep, lastnight I took quite a beating- literally.
The outdoor pool has nice wide lanes, perfect for sharing, but no lights in the pool, so we are stuck in the indoor pool for the evening session.
The indoor pools lanes are a bit narrower. For a seasoned swimmer it's not that big of a deal, but get a novice in your lane and WATCH OUT! :eek:

I was swimming with a girl who was a drifter. She was a very nice girl, but she drifted all over the place as she swam. Despite my hugging the lane lines and whacking my hand repeatedly (YOUCH!) on the "rope" to try to stay as much to my side as possible, she hit me head on twice. It made for a very stressful session. Not only was I trying to work on my stroke, but I was trying to avoid a collision at the same time.

I was starting to feel like I was in an Ironman swim. Not only did we have the head ons, but I was kicked and whacked a couple of times as well.

Like I said, she was a nice girl, she apologized for whacking me, but it was stressful. I mean I found myself sighting in the pool to see where she was as if I was in open water looking for a bouy!

So all in all it wasn't such a good masters night for me. I didn't feel like I accomplished anything other than getting out alive. I may need to switch back to morning masters...

[rocknrollgirl]

Hi All,
Well, since you guys are the only ones that "get it", I have to share.

I had a smokin' OWS last night. My best of the season. If I can feel that good in two weeks at Nationals, I will be so happy.

2200 in 33 mins......

Now if I could just feel that good on the run!

[Kimmyt]

Nice time! Thats what, 1:30/100 yards? Smokin! :eek:

[rocknrollgirl]

You know Kimmy, I never think in those terms outside the pool. For an OWS I always think in terms of my time over 500 or 1000 yards. Funny.

I did have a wetsuit on, so that added to some of the speed, but I just felt great. I have developed a nice cadence for my ows, and I can zone out and just cruise.

A long way from my choking, panic on the first attempt in my wetsuit in April.

[Wahine]

Hi All,
Well, since you guys are the only ones that "get it", I have to share.

I had a smokin' OWS last night. My best of the season. If I can feel that good in two weeks at Nationals, I will be so happy.

2200 in 33 mins......

Now if I could just feel that good on the run!

:D :D :D :D :D

This is sooooooooo exciting.

[rocknrollgirl]

It is so silly, but I felt so good about it all day. It is not like I can even tell anyone. Nobody cares...and they think I am nuts anyway.


The funny part of the story is....

We are now swimming locally at a lake. My friend lives across the street from the lake. Nobody is allowed on the lake, unless you live on the lake. So my friend took us over to meet her across the street neighbors to see if we could park at their house and swim off their dock. We they have become our adoptive grandparents. They leave us bottled water on the dock while we swim. It is really cute.

Last night there was a swan in the lake. Bob, our adopted grandpa was so worried that I was going to get attacked that he sat on the dock with his pellet gun to protect us.

[Wahine]

Aaaaaaawwwwwwwwwww. That is sooooo cute.

I know what you mean about people not getting it. I used to go into work and say thing like, " I know you really don't care and may not even have a clue what I'm talking about but I swam a 1:30 100 today. Thanks for listening." Then I'd walk away. They all think I'm nuts too.

[Running Mommy]

RNR- I LOVE IT! Such nice folks!!
And the 2200 in 33?? HOLY SMOKES! Did you leave a wake???!!!:D

[rocknrollgirl]

RM...I do not know, but Chris said I was moving. It was just one of those days where I felt really good.
Oh please, please, please let me feel that good in Tahoe.....

OK, I am done praying now.....


(well not totally done, oh please, please, please don't let the run suck too much)

OK....done for the moment....

[Trek420]

What IS Masters?

I think it means we're old :rolleyes: ;)


There's a pool right near my house that does Masters swimming at a really convenient time to me but the group says they are gay/lesbian so I'm not so sure they'd want me.

I'm sure it'd be fine, just ask. I bet that they'll welcome you in and say something like "as long as you're accepting/respectful c'mon in".

As a general rule we're a friendly bunch and don't bite .... unless you're into that and ask us to. JK TE, really! :rolleyes:

It's nearby and convenient and you'd swim more often what's not to like?

You could be the token straight gal :) ;) :D

There's an LGBT bike club near me (Different Spokes) they have straight folk on rides and even in the club. Simple matter of if you like the riders and it's convenient for you .... whatever gets you outside and moving. :)

[KnottedYet]

Hey, Teigyr, what time is that swim? (maybe I could go with you?) My swimming really sux, and I do want to get better at it.

[teigyr]

Trek, thank you :) I never want to intrude and I'm a pretty much "live and let live" person unless I'm behind a slow person on the freeway. My judgments are by actions (ie animal abusers, etc) rather than lifestyle. Not to take this OT but your points are good and hopefully they feel the same way.

Knot, will PM you links :D Have a few options but the one pool is probably pretty close to you. Also wouldn't mind doing some OW swims.

And this isn't Masters related but yesterday I did a small OW swim. I remember when I had trouble going 20 strokes in the pool without resting. In OW I went up to 55, I counted on my last length! I am so far from perfect but I am getting better. I could have done more, also, but it was my last length and I didn't want to push it.

[Kimmyt]

Good night tonight at class. We did 1750, so we're getting back up there. The first few weeks of class are always builders so people don't get trampled right away. We focused on technique of the catch and pull, I was feeling good and no ankle pain. Also ran a fast 9:08/mi on the way to class! I felt gooood!

[light_sabe_r]

2.6km!!!! ^_^

1min 15 per 50m lap!!!!

YAHOO!!!

Okay so I was wearing flippers for all but 400m... :eek: I still went the distance!

I can do 200 freestyle (without flippers) in 4mins 48s now... That's WAY faster than my time at the Luke Harrop Tri in February.

[Running Mommy]

WHEWW! Lots of sets. Oh and my favorite one armed drills. UGH!!
AKA controlled drowning! ;)

But my 200 time was 4:50. So I kept my 2:25 per 100 pace over the distance. I'm not getting faster- yet. But I do feel better in the water.

I had a guy next to me tonight that kept calling me speedy, and said I had lungs of steel. I may have lungs of steel- but there aint no (good english ehh?! ha ha) "speed" in my swim!! :D

The pool we are swimming in doesn't have lights. So the only light we have is from above. Kind of cool to swim in the dark. Kinda creepy, but cool.

[Wahine]

How's everyone doing with their swimming.

My coach is trying to kill me.

Our workout today:

400 IM
8 x 50 - dolphin kick on back for 25 then freestyle for 25 with fins

Main set:

3 x 200 on 3:50 interval
2 x 200 on 3:40 interval
Repeat above

Then puke and do 200 choice cool down.

I think I'll sleep well tonight.

[HillSlugger]

I'm still working out on my own, but finally feeling confident enough that I might consider masters swimming during the winter.

I'm working on increasing my endurance, swimming longer each time, and nearing 1000m straight FS. The last two workouts felt really good, fast (for me) and smooth. I'm also doing extra work on my kick and I'm starting to work on bilateral breathing.

[alpinerabbit]

Ours started us on butterfly yesterday. This makes freestyle look like a piece of cake.

Since everyone else has gone through the "winter technique phase" probably at least once (long time club members) - I was at the bottom of the ladder again. I'm getting used to it (I always was, just being in the club keeps rubbing it in)...

oh not entirely: I beat the guys on legstroke only. hehehe.

[rocknrollgirl]

I went to the pool on Saturday. It was my first swim post Nationals. After a week of resting, eating ice cream cake and drinking wine...I swam like a brick. Betcha did not know you could do brick workouts in the pool! It was just plain ugly!

[Wahine]

RnR is your new Avatar from Nationals? Coooooool.

[Over50Newbie]

Hi everyone,

May I join in this discussion?

I am 53 and a Master's swimmer. I am currently training for a swim meet in November. I guess that you could call me a sprinter, because I am only signing up to do the 50 yard freestyle, and maybe the 50 yard butterfly and the 100 IM. I used to swim when I was young, but I have not competed in more than 30 years! So, in some ways, I feel like a beginner again.

I am using the "immersion swimming" technique. It is brand new to me and I am getting more comfortable with it every day. I am finding it difficult breathing every three strokes instead of my usual every four strokes. But my coach wants me to keep practicing as he says that this will make me a more balanced swimmer.

And I'm working really hard practicing not swimming freestyle on my stomach, but instead just "passing through" my front side, while rotating my hips from side to side. My coach says that I should never be flat on my stomach - it is the most inefficient way to swim freestyle. I should swim freestyle like a fish does - always staying on my side.

This is all new learning for me. I can't believe how much swimming has changed in the past 30 years! Where have I been?

So, anyway, hello to all of you other swimmers. Happy to be aboard!:D

Lynette

[rocknrollgirl]

Yes Yoda, that is a pic from Nationals. They came out ok....I like that one and one at the finish. The DH got some good shots, but they are a pain to post because the files are huge and when I shrink they they look crappy. I will post a few of the small ones that I clipped from the event photographer.

[alpinerabbit]

I am using the "immersion swimming" technique.

I should swim freestyle like a fish does - always staying on my side.

hee hee. Fish don't swim on their side. Well flounders do.

Just kidding. I think TI is great. it's just that the above is a fact.

[KSH]

And I'm working really hard practicing not swimming freestyle on my stomach, but instead just "passing through" my front side, while rotating my hips from side to side. My coach says that I should never be flat on my stomach - it is the most inefficient way to swim freestyle. I should swim freestyle like a fish does - always staying on my side.

This is all new learning for me. I can't believe how much swimming has changed in the past 30 years! Where have I been?


Well, I have see the TI videos and the technique... and honestly, I don't "get it". I think it's great for someone who can't swim... to learn how to swim... but it also seems like a lot of people who use it, never end up being very fast.

I swim "old school" (swam competitively 20 years ago)... I swim on my stomach... and I'm usually top 3 in my AG out of the water. I'm not a slow swimmer.

My boyfriend learned using TI and he has never gotten really fast. I had a friend who was doing the TI method, and I had him stop twisting his body as much in the water... and he got faster.

Who knows... maybe some people are speed demons in the water swimming on their sides the whole time? I haven't met them... but I'm sure it works for some.

Sorry... that's just my little rant. Like I said, I think TI is great for someone who can't swim at all to be able to swim... but I don't think the technique is the "end all be all".

But hey, whatever works for you. If you can swim fast swimming on your side... then that's great!

[HillSlugger]

hee hee. Fish don't swim on their side. Well flounders do.

Fish don't do freestyle, either. ;)

KSH, what do you consider "fast"?

I bought the TI book, but only got about 1/2 through it. I got frustrated because they kept saying "We'll show you how to X..." but then never seemed to get to the showing, only to the promise to show. The little bit I got out of it was to swim with the top of the head forward and the eyes/face down.

[teigyr]

I'm right in the middle of TI lessons.

Some of it feels awkward. In theory, it seems like it makes sense though sometimes it feels strange! I agree that maybe some of the techniques can be modified to a more traditional type style.

My intention is to be "middle of the pack" while having enough coordination and strength to go around poor swimmers. I also would like to not have my quads burn after 1/2 mile in the open water and I'd like to finish with as much energy as possible. Oh and I don't want to have to regroup at buoys if I get winded :o

I think maybe when I'm through with my TI training, I will go back to more traditional swim clinics to practice. One thing TI did work on which I loved, was balance. I float much more easily now and my legs don't sink :D

[Over50Newbie]

KSH,

Very interesting points.

And, I have to tell you that I feel the same way. Especially when you say that immersion swimming is a good technique to help people learn to swim, but is not that helpful for those of us that consider ourselves more "accomplished" swimmers. But I have this coach that is an immersion swimming nut. He feels that it is the "end all" to swimming. So, I have decided to give it a try to see if it helps me be a faster swimmer. But I'm not really convinced that it is going to help me at all.

I also swam competitively as a child. I learned to swim through the American Red Cross swimming program. I have always swum freestyle staying completely on my stomach. I also swam freestyle with my arms swinging out without a great deal of bend in my arms.

I actually have a videotape of me swimming the 50 yard freestyle in a swim meet last year (my very first swim meet as an adult) and you can see my old form.

This is what I looked like.

http://s97.photobucket.com/albums/l238/lgbmsi/?action=view&current=Freestyle.flv

My time for the 50 yard freestyle was 35.5 seconds. Not extremely fast, but not that slow either - for an old lady.;)

I am going to be in another swim meet next month and I am also going to do the 50 yard freestyle again, trying out my new form. This will mean more bend in my elbows and trying to rotate more from side to side.

I am pessimistic that my time is going to improve, but I am going to give it my best shot!

How is all of this going to transfer to swimming in triathlons? I have no idea! Right now I am only doing sprint tris. I did my first one last year and I plan on trying some more next summer.

I have now been working on changing my form with immersion swimming for about 4 months. I'm really hoping that it will help me be a better swimmer. I guess I'll find out soon. But I must admit, I am having lots of fun exploring this new stuff. I guess that you can teach an old dog new tricks!:D

Lynette

[light_sabe_r]

What's TI????

Total Immersion??

Can someone give me a definition?

I honestly have no idea what I'm being taught... All I know is I REALLY sucked this morning. I was slow, I was swallowing water (The fact it was raining didn't help my breating in air much either) and I felt like I couldn't keep my arse up in the water.

>_< MAN THAT SUCKED! I think it's because I haven't recovered from my 140 last weekend.

Triathlon is this weekend... Can't be THIS BAD now... ;_;

[KSH]

Lynette... cool video!

A 32 second 50 is FAST in my book lady! I don't think I could do that! Although, I have always been a distance swimmer... not a sprinter.

I guess I would ask, how did you fair in the sprint tri on the swim? Were you first... last... somewhere in between? With a 50 that fast, I would think you would be in the top of your AG.

Keep in mind that a lot triathletes come from a running or cycling backgroun. The ones with a swimming background really stand out, because they are decent in the water.

Your "old school" stroke looked pretty good. I saw you doing the "S" underwater. I did notice that your elbows were not too high and your right elbow was lower than the left. From a distance in the video it almost looked like the arm was dragging through the water some to come to the front.

Well, see how the TI works. Maybe you will be faster? Let us know how it works out. I'm curious.

I know for me... I figured if it ain't broke... don't fix it. My "old school" stroke is what my body knows, and it generally places me top 3 in my AG out of the water.

It's really nice too because I can get away with only training one day week. For my Half Ironman I trained once a week around 3500-4000 yards and I did around a 1:50 per minute on the 2100 yard swim. I also came out of the water fresh and feeling good. That's what matters!

[Wahine]

I am very strong through my upper boday and with a more traditional freestyle stroke I was as fast if not a little faster over shorter distances. But with the TI stroke, I can hold my pace for much longer and my stroke count over 50 m has gone down by more than 10. That translates into a lot less effort to go the same distance and in triathlon, that's what it's all about.

[Over50Newbie]

This is a great discussion. Thanks, ladies, for letting me join in!


A 32 second 50 is FAST in my book lady! I don't think I could do that! Although, I have always been a distance swimmer... not a sprinter.

Not a 32 second 50, a 35 second 50. (I wish it was a 32). And, thanks, I'm glad you like the video!

Oh, and yes, I usually finish either first or second in my age group for the swimming section of the sprint tris that I have done, but to be honest, this really doesn't mean a lot, because there are so few women in my age competing.

Wahine, the same thing is happening to me with my swimming. My stroke count is starting to go way down. I like the idea that this might translate to less effort for longer distances. As I said before, TI is all new to me, so we will have to see as time goes on if that is true. Though I know for sure that I am gliding more now than I used to.

Light Saber, yes, TI means Total Immersion. Here is the web site if you want to see what it is all about.

http://www.totalimmersion.net

Goodnight Ladies,

Lynette

[HillSlugger]

One thing TI did work on which I loved, was balance. I float much more easily now and my legs don't sink :D

Is this explained in the book? I've always been a sinker and I definitely suffer from sinking hips. I'd love to be able to improve this!

[teigyr]

Is this explained in the book? I've always been a sinker and I definitely suffer from sinking hips. I'd love to be able to improve this!

It is in the book. I don't have the book with me but I do have the Triathlon Swimming Made Easy book here. It's all about balance. I know when I practice and start to sink, I remember to lower my head and upper body a bit and my legs pop right back up. I will say that the lessons are making more of a difference than the book just because I may think I am in line or balanced and it turns out the reality is my head is up and my legs are down :o It's so strange to feel like my head is buried in the water but when I feel the top of my head, it isn't as deep as I think it is. I bet if you search the TI website you will find things on balance. There is also a discussion board there.

Washine, I'm glad you find TI useful. Because the coaching is somewhat expensive and because I'm practicing drills instead of "traditional" swimming, I am/was second-guessing my decision to do this. It's a lot of money and I'm fortunate in that I just have to say I need something and DH agrees but I'd hate to waste money on something useless. Thank you for that :)

[csh_01]

Mind if I join in as well? I'm taking an intro to master swim class. The Master swim class was a little intimidating to me. We've been swimming about 2200 yards. I'm not sure how much more I can swim in an hour. We've been timing our 100's the last few classes to see if we're improving. A few classes ago it was 1:37 and last night it was 1:30. We've also been working on lengthening our stroke. I started at 21 strokes/25 yards and now am about 18.

I just picked up the TI book from the library. I don't know how fast a 1:30 or 18 stroke per 25 yard is to decide if I should try and change my swimming style.

[Wahine]

This morning:

200 warm up

400 IM with fins done as 25 kick/25 drill/25 kick/25 drill

then 2 sets of:

50 fly
50 fly/50 back
50 back/50 breast
50 breast/100 freestyle

then 200 IM

then 12 50's in various forms

then 200 cool down.

I hate IM day. Yikes. Well if it doesn't kill you....

[Over50Newbie]

Wahine, I am very impressed!

That is quite the workout. :eek:

WOW - You go girl!

Lynette

[HillSlugger]

I had my best swim ever this morning; I swam 1000m continuous freestyle for the first time ever and I swam a total of 2000m, my longest workout ever. :D

[Running Mommy]

Good Job MD!

I had a break through lastnight in masters. I was struggling to keep up with everyone all night. Then Claudio came over to my lane and told me to tuck my head a bit more. I did that and suddenly I was beatng the guy in the lane next to me down the pool! And I did feel the difference when I pushed my big ol noggin down. I felt a lot more balanced.
Now if I can just get down the bilateral breathing thing! UGH! :o

[alpinerabbit]

Good going both of ya!

I did much better on the back stroke this monday than at butterfly the week before, but incurred some rather sore muscles.

[Kimmyt]

I haven't popped in here for a while, so here's an update. It seems like all yall are doing really well!

We've been doing backstroke in the past few weeks, and I'm starting to hate it. I always like backstroke, but with drills... its really tiring and I really feel it on my run home. Very winded.

I actually took yesterday off from class, stayed home and watched a movie (Farewell my concubine, very good!)

RM, i recently discovered the similar thing. When I drop my head in the water during freestyle, push my forehead down a bit, i almost feel like i'm physically shoving that water around me. It's very odd. It feels really nice though, and powerful, and I think a bit faster. The only problem I'm having with that is that by dropping my head, I have to rotate more to get a breath, and I'm ending up with water in my mouth more often than not. It doesn't go down my throat, but I don't get a really awesome breath in like I used to when my head was further up towards the surface. Any tips on this?

K.

[Wahine]

Good job everyone.

Way to go MD. That is really a big deal!!

I'll spare you the boring details but I swam 3 mornings this week with Masters. I thought I was going to die all 3 mornings. 2 days had a lot of stroke work which tires me out and on the freestyle day we had a hideously hard set. I was even a bit pukey.

Good news is that I feel really good. Like I'm getting enough exercise but not fatigued. I haven't felt like that in a while. I'll start training for real again (ie running and maybe biking) in mid Nov or beginnig of Dec. I'm starting to get excited about setting up a program.:D :D :D

[teigyr]

Wahine - because you've used TI at times, do you do your Master's practice using that form? Since I've taken the TI course and am doing drills now, it's a bit frustrating. Can you effectively go back and forth between forms or do you just use one that you've modified that's all-purpose? There are some swim clinics up here that I'd like to go to but I wonder if that would conflict with the TI lessons. The winter is all about swimming but I want to see progress, darn it!

[Wahine]

I use TI now, pretty exclusively. Having said that, there's always individuality in form and my current form is not pure TI but a blend of TI and my pre-TI form.

From a PT point of view, to make the TI form automatic you have to commit yourself to always practicing it. If you switch back and forth and change your stroke significantly when you switch, you form will suffer at both ends. It have to do with imprinting the nervous system with the right motor commands.

I would try to do all TI, understanding that when you don't concentrate as hard you will be swimming a combination. You will be slower for a while.

[teigyr]

Wahine, thank you. It makes sense. I'm not so worried about speed but I really want distance. Being that my final lesson was last week, I know I need to keep doing drills. I've got months to go before another tri so I know there is time. I guess I'm impatient :o

[alpinerabbit]

Coach told me to use my legs a bit more in freestyle, tried that, I guess it's not going too badly. Sometimes I get into a rhythm. Sometimes not. I need a butterfly class.

We have a 1K time trial in December, I am dreading that one.

Last night they were talking about doing 100x100 on new year's day.

You get free entry to the pool, champagne afterwards and out for lunch (actually they were joking last year it was lunches as they visited several restaurants, they were so hungry)

Think I can do 100x100? as a one-off? They just do something different for every 100 and you have all the time in the world (that would amount to like 4-5 hours?)
if I don't feel too horrible after a 2hr/3.5K practice? Or is this madness. I guess I don't have to finish.

[KSH]

Last night they were talking about doing 100x100 on new year's day.

You get free entry to the pool, champagne afterwards and out for lunch (actually they were joking last year it was lunches as they visited several restaurants, they were so hungry)



NY Day? No thanks. That's the day you should be recovering from a hang over! :p

[Kimmyt]

Good class last night, we did T-15s again and I increased 125 yds from my benchmark! Swam the whole night with Mr. Ironman in my lane again, but he said he'd already swum that morning so was taking it easy. And this time he wasn't tickling my toes the whole time (he also gave me a compliment, saying that I was perfectly capable of moving up to the next lane and I was doing a fine job setting a pace as the first swimmer in our lane yay).

[Wahine]

No swimming this week for me. I've been unusually tired and today I feel like I might be coming down with the flu.:( :(

Alpine, I would try it. But I'm officially warped.

[alpinerabbit]

meh... maybe I'll rather be lazy around christmas and not do too much crazy stuff.

Last night we had to do a whopping 5x100 fist swimming. eeks. I passed again on the butterfly. I'll have to take a class to sort of manage that one. Otherwise I kept up, in the slow lane, for all 3.3K. I dread the 1K time trial we will do in December.

The funkiest freestyle drills we did 2 weeks ago: "chicken wing" (keep one thumb in your armpit) and "shark" (keep one foot in the air). Funny but yucky.

[Kimmyt]

ar, we call those turkey drills, and they're good to do for the thanksgiving and christmas relay games we have in class! :)

as for me, i haven't been to class recently. Last weekend I was on a climbing trip, and due to the cold weather and sleeping on the ground, I've tweaked my neck and don't want to risk re-injuring with swimming. So for now I'm resting and trying to get the running back up.

K.

[Wahine]

I went to all 3 masters workouts last week and the 2 so far this week.

We swam a tough 2000m main set today.

I am now officially suffering from armsfallingoffitis with a coexisting case of sleepyitis.

I can't wait to go home tonight and crash out.

[HillSlugger]

I really impressed myself today. For the past few weeks I've been focusing on balance (side swimming) and mastering bilateral breathing, doing various drills. Today I decided that maybe I should alternate drills workouts with LSD (long slow distance). So, I got in the pool with the intention of doing 1000m FS. I ended up doing 1600m straight! Woo hoo!

[Wahine]

I missed Masters today.:(

I had to go to a meeting last night and didn't get home until 10:45. I thought about getting up early to swim, but then I would not have seen my husband in a conscious state for almost 2 days. I slept in with him and we had coffee together instead.

MD - :D :D :D :D that's great news.

[rocknrollgirl]

I did mostly drills this week. It was actually kind of fun. I am slowly increasing my distance back up to where it was at the end of my race season, but I am not working on speed yet. I plan to wait a few more weeks before I start doing speed work.

[Wahine]

I swam masters this AM.

Just when you think you're getting a bit better....you get your azz kicked. The main set went like this:

12x25 fly with fins
6x50 back
3x100 breast
1x200 free
1x400 IM

I had to do freestyle for the last 25m of my fly on the 400m IM. To keep from drowning. Eeeeeeekkkkk!! My shoulders are killing me.

[kelownagirl]

What's IM?

[crazycanuck]

Individual Medley

[kelownagirl]

oh. And what is that?

[crazycanuck]

Basically you can choose which stroke you'd like to do for that set.

C

[kelownagirl]

Thanks CC. :) And freestyle is where you do a front crawl? Why is it called free style? Do you get to choose how often you take a breath?

[HillSlugger]

I think it's called free style because there was a time where, for some races, you could choose which stroke you wanted to do and the overwhelming choice ended up being front crawl.

[Over50Newbie]

Hey Ladies,

Just completed my first Master's swim meet for the season. I swam two personal bests, so I am quite happy!:D

I swam the 50 yard butterfly, 100 yard freestyle, and the 50 yard freestyle.

Woo-hoo - off to a great start!

Lynette

[Skeezix]

Good job Lynette!

I'm going to be joining the local masters club in January. I've just had too much going on this fall but in the thick of winter my schedule should be much more open.

I need to get a new suit as my old one is see-through.

[Over50Newbie]

I need to get a new suit as my old one is see-through.

Eek! :eek:

Yes, we don't want any X-rated swimming now, do we?

Lynette

[alpinerabbit]

I did 3.7 on Monday in practice and 2.2 on my own on Wed, that's almost 6K, a record week.

I think our coach hinted at a 1K time trial on Monday. YIKES!!!!!! RUN!!!!!!!

[HillSlugger]

I did 1800m this morning, pushing my 2007 total past 100,000m! It was right about this time last year that I first got back into the water and discovered that I was a pretty poor swimmer. I guess I've come/swam a long way since then! :cool: :D

[Wahine]

My masters coaches are trying to kill me.

We got video taped last week. Then we have a pot luck on Tues to review the video. Should be very educational.

[alpinerabbit]

My love and I did golf scores today, we're both down to 43 secs for 50m - I take 43 strokes for that. Heck, I used to be at 50 secs and 48 strokes, so I am getting better. the pros take like 33 strokes... whatever.

[Over50Newbie]

Alpinerabbit,

I love playing "swim golf." What a great way to work on your stroke and at the same time try to improve your speed. Swimming long and lean is what I am striving for these days.

I swim in a 20 yard pool and right now I am trying to break a score of 50 for two lengths. That is 28 seconds for time with 22 strokes - total golf score of 50.

Lynette

[Over50Newbie]

So, have you ever had one of those practices where your shoulders hurt so much that you can't even lift your arms up to wash your hair after practice?:eek:

That's where I am right now - too much butterfly!

Lynette

[kelownagirl]

I read about swim golf somewhere else today. I am feeling knowledgable before I even put my toe in the water! :rolleyes: :D

[Wahine]

So, have you ever had one of those practices where your shoulders hurt so much that you can't even lift your arms up to wash your hair after practice?:eek:

That's where I am right now - too much butterfly!

Lynette

I hear ya!! I had 2 practices like that this week. My patients think it's really funny when I can't demonstrate an exercise for them because my arms are about to fall off.

[Kimmyt]

Oh man, such a good class last night! We are on IM Improvement week in our schedule, which means that I can barely lift my arms after class. I did 2350 yds and actually felt like my butterfly wasn't an eyesore (most of the time). Of course, it helped that I was in the lane next to the teacher, who has an amazing butterfly, and could watch his form and attempt to emulate. At the end of the class, he came up to me and asked why I don't do meets. My answer was that I stink, but he just shrugged it off and tried to get me to do one.

I told him that if I ever learned how to do a reliable flip turn, I might consider it, but until then I'd focus on tri swimming!

But it felt good that he asked me that!

K.

[Over50Newbie]

Kimmy, you go girl!

I felt the same way about swim meets last year, and my coach had to literally "twist my arm" to get me to try one.

But now that I am doing them, I am really starting to like them. I don't like the feeling that I get before them - butterflies in my stomach, feelings of self doubt, thinking that I am a fraud being there - but, once I actually get in the water to swim, I find that I really enjoy myself. :)

The best part of the swim meets is that you don't compete against others, you only compete against yourself. Everybody is swimming to complete their personal bests. There are no ribbons, no trophies, no nothing. It is a great atmosphere where you swim with people, right in the next lane, who their 80's and 90's. And it is much less competitive than doing triathlons.

So, think it over. Oh, and BTW, there are many, many Masters swimmers who do open turns! ;)

Lynette

[Wahine]

I did 3 masters swims this week for a total of....8100 m this week. Thought my arms were going to fall off on tues but I had a great set today, 3 x 400 on 7 min, I held a 6:45.:D :D

[Over50Newbie]

Wahine, you are truly a MASTER...:)

Nice job on your 400 repeats. It is soooo hard to keep your time for all three of them, especially at the end when you are fatigued.

Lynette

[Kimmyt]

Rough day at Masters yesterday. We had the Twelve Drills of Xmas.

12- 25 freestyle on :30
11- 25 free/fly on the :30
10- 25 stroke/free on the :30
9- 25 free/kick on the :30
8- 25 IM order on the :30
7- 25 fly kick on the :30
6- 25 free with 2 breaths on the :30
5- 5 50 free kick
4- 100 free on the 1:45
3- 75 fly
2- 50 sprint
1- 25 underwater

all equals to ouch. I made it all the way to the fourth day of christmas before having to cut down. Then time ran out of class so we ended up doing 3 100s for the 4th day, then 3-25s of fly for the third day, then 2 25sprints and then the one underwater.

It was a hurty kind of day! (though on Wednesday we get Reindeer Games, woo!)

K.

[chickwhorips]

I have never swam with the masters per say, but my friend use to and we would do drills together.

Now that I am finally in a place that has a pool, I have a membership and have begun to swim again. Phew! It feels so good.

I've been swimming about 3 days a week to get back into the swing of things. One long easy day. One short faster day, and then drills.

I hope you girls don't mind, but I'm going to tag along with all of you to help get ideas on training and keep motivated. My dr said I couldn't train hard yet until at least the summer if I was up to it.

Thanks in advance to letting me tag along! :D

[Wahine]

Hey Kimmy, thanks for posting that workout. I am sooooooooo going to try it over xmas.

[kelownagirl]

So what kind of swim workout would an absolute beginner expect to do? I'm figuring on just swimming laps and work on form and not try to do any other crazy stuff. How many laps can I expect to do in one session without getting completely exhausted? I know - I just need to go and see, right?

[Kimmyt]

Wahine, glad I could share the pain... erm, help you out... :)

Kelownagirl, I guess it all depends on how much experience you have as a beginner swimmer? I would say that to start off you'd do some sets of stroke, then kicking on a board, then pulling with a buoy. I think that really helps get technique down. Swimming laps non-stop takes alot, so if maybe you can try doing a longer set and then doing repeats with rest that would probably help.

For example, you could do a 100 swim (4 laps) and see how you feel. If thats hard then try and do maybe a 50 of kicking using a board, and then a 50 using a pull buoy. You could finish with another 100. Or, if that 100 was not so hard, then you can do 100 swim, 100 kick, 100 pull to warm up, then try and do a 400 swim. Then you could do a cooldown of some kicking on a board or pulling or even backstroke or breaststroke to get your heart rate down.

Hope this helps, there may be more info on beginner swim workouts on beginnertriathlete.com

K.

[kelownagirl]

Thanks Kimmyt, I didn't think about BT. I'll take a look there as well. I can't wait to get into the pool and see how many laps I can do. :)

[HillSlugger]

So what kind of swim workout would an absolute beginner expect to do? I'm figuring on just swimming laps and work on form and not try to do any other crazy stuff. How many laps can I expect to do in one session without getting completely exhausted? I know - I just need to go and see, right?

I've had good success with a training plan called "0-1650 in 6 weeks"

Week 1 (x 3 days): (700m)
100m x 4 (12 breath rest)
50m x 4 (8 breath rest)
25m x 4 (4 breath rest)

Week 2 (x 3 days): (900m)
200m (12 breath rest)
100m x 4 (10 breath rest)
50m x 4 (6 breath rest)
25m x 4 (4 breath rest)

Week 3 (x 3 days): (1250m)
400m (12 breath rest)
100m x 4 (8 breath rest)
50m x 6 (4 breath rest)
25m x 6 (4 breath rest)

Week 4 (x 3 days): (1500m)
600m (10 breath rest)
300m (8 breath rest)
100m x 4 (6 breath rest)
50m x 4 (4 breath rest)

Week 5 (x 3 days): (1600m)
1000m (8 breath rest)
100m x 4 (4 breath rest)
50m x 4 (4 breath rest)

Week 6 (x 2 days): (1650m)
1200m (6 breath rest)
200m (4 breath rest)
100m (4 breath rest)
50m x 3 (4 breath rest)

Week 6 (day 3):
1650m straight!

You can mix these in less than 3 times a week along with other drills.