Driver kills two more

[silver]

This is horrifying. I'm trying to find more info. This is from the area that my parents live.

This kid, 19, killed a cyclist two years ago. Now, he's hit and killed two more!

http://www.wtvm.com/Global/story.asp?S=7024259&nav=8fapdoW2

http://blog.al.com/live/2007/09/teen_faces_two_murder_charges.html

[Trek420]

Will someone explain to me like I'm a 4 year old how he was out driving 2 years after the first murder? :mad: Was that a case of "Oh he's just a kid" :confused:

[Zen]

Drunk at 9AM.

He has a problem and needs some time behind bars to dry out and hopefully rehab.
If he doesn't get that it's bound to happen again.

keep us posted on this one.

[Torrilin]

Will someone explain to me like I'm a 4 year old how he was out driving 2 years after the first murder? :mad: Was that a case of "Oh he's just a kid" :confused:

Usually minors do not get penalized as harshly as adults. Since he would have been 17 at the time of the first offense that would have helped. And it's a lot easier to get light punishment for murder with a car. Drunk and/or reckless drivers are rarely punished as murderers, even if the offender is an adult with a history of accidents. Doesn't matter if the victims are on bikes, on foot or in cars... the driver will get away with far less jail time than a murderer deserves. (Yes, I know it's legally not murder, and I disagree with the basis of those legal rulings.)

I feel so sorry for the families involved. This has to feel awful.

[Wahine]

Drunk at 9AM.

He has a problem and needs some time behind bars to dry out and hopefully rehab.
If he doesn't get that it's bound to happen again.

keep us posted on this one.

I agree 100% Zen. This is someone with seriously self destructive behavior. This kid will keep killing people until he takes himself out with them or gets help and dries out.

I feel terrible for the cyclists' families. It's not fair that they have lost loved ones and this 19 year old is still living and will more than likely get a second, scratch that, third chance at life when the cyclists never did.

[Pax]

Those poor families. :(

I swear, with things like this becoming all too common I'm almost ready to hang the bike on the garage wall, sell off the motorcycle and just stay off the road. :mad:

[silver]

I'm still putting together info on this. Below is some info that I found on the first man that the driver killed. This is just tragic.....the first man, Larry McDuff....his wife was killed riding her bike two years previously, so he was all about safety.

I did find a blurb in a blog...so it's unsubstantiated, that the McDuff family asked for leniency for the driver who was 17 at the time. But I've not found what his punishment was.

This makes me angry.....but I will not stop riding.


http://thetrailblazers.org/content/view/17/

MCDUFF MEMORIAL

At 8:30am on Monday, June 13 Larry McDuff was riding his bike to work at Bee Natural Organic Farm in Fairhope. He helped out with the crops and goats at the farm two days a week in exchange for fruits, veggies, and cheeses to support his vegetarian lifestyle. He was riding south in the bike lane on Greeno Road when a hit and run driver struck and killed him.

Ironically his beloved wife Ann was killed in the same way two years previously on Baldwin County Hwy 27, now US 181. Since that tragedy Larry had always worn a fluorescent lime green jacket, a helmet, and a flashing red light on his bike for maximum visibility.

The McDuffs were environmental role models for all who knew them. They rode bikes instead of cars, dried their clothes out in the sun, and travelled the world on foot. Summers they trekked elaborately planned trips such as the Pacific Crest Trail from Mexico to Canada, the Appalachian Trail twice over, the John Muir Trail in California, and an even more daunting one in Peru. When their four children were old enough they took them to Europe which they explored by bike.

[7rider]

Oh, my. These two guys were neighbors of my friend's step-daughter in the Fairhope area. My friend stayed at our house Monday night and got word from his wife about the accident and told us about it.
:(

[lilduff]

Larry was very considerate to the family of the man who killed his wife in 2003(?). He told that man to live his life and not let this accident keep him from doing so. Larry taught his children compassion.
Larry's family did ask for consideration to the 17 year old who hit and killed him 2 years ago. The teen did leave the scene but later turned himself in.
Now it has been said that the teen was probably on drugs durning that first accident. (But remember, he left the scene) The court records were sealed.
He is accused of DUI during this occurance and is accused of murder of these 2 gentlemen.

[silver]

Larry was very considerate to the family of the man who killed his wife in 2003(?). He told that man to live his life and not let this accident keep him from doing so. Larry taught his children compassion.
Larry's family did ask for consideration to the 17 year old who hit and killed him 2 years ago. The teen did leave the scene but later turned himself in.
Now it has been said that the teen was probably on drugs durning that first accident. (But remember, he left the scene) The court records were sealed.
He is accused of DUI during this occurance and is accused of murder of these 2 gentlemen.

lilduff, thank you so much for offering this information. You must be very familiar with this. It's just so awful that it's next to impossible to wrap my thoughts around.

I was just in shock to read about it. My background is that I was riding with a man who was hit and killed by a 19 year old driver. He was tested and tested negative for substances. I never wanted vengence on him but did feel that he should have some penalties other than the $125 that he paid. Possibly loss of his license for a time and probation. I don't know what it right. I certainly understand the compassion extended. (I hope that I didn't come across as finding fault with that.....who could have foreseen this) I would be interested in what penalty he did receive.

Please, give us any info that you feel that you can to help us understand. I was in the area (Gulf Shores) when Mr. McDuff was killed but know very little about him or the resolution of that case. I do remember my parents telling me that his wife had been killed while riding.

[Trek420]

I like to think I'm a forgiving person, I'm not vengeful by nature, that's not my job if you wanna get spiritual about it.

I love cycling and don't want to think of cycling as punishment. But that young man should never drive again. I lost my cousin to a bike crash so I think it's fair to .....

...let him bike, for the rest of his life. The 3 people the murdered rode everywhere :mad: to Europe, work, for fun ..... let him ride.

[Mr. Bloom]

I don't have any problem at this point saying that this young man should serve time. And he should never, ever, ever be given a license to drive. But someone like this.....and I am being judgemental....would drive without a license.

trek, it was about this time last year....wasn't it?

Oops, this is silver, forgot to check the log in

[SouthernBelle]

In many states he would be charged with vehicular homicide or a similar offense with a different name. I would guess that this is the current charge.

[KnottedYet]

trek, it was about this time last year....wasn't it?

Yeah, it was November.

[Batbike]

Will someone explain to me like I'm a 4 year old how he was out driving 2 years after the first murder? :mad: Was that a case of "Oh he's just a kid" :confused:

I cannt answer your question as to "WHY" this driver was driving 2 years after the first murder, but I can tell you about a recent driver in my area of VA who killed a cyclist and the results. The driver is a prominent woman, mother of 2, who apparently was talking on cell phone and discipling children in minivan, not paying attention to road and accidently hit a cyclist. The cyclist was another prominent citizen, a heart surgeon. The driver got charged with RECKLESS DRIVING and a $1500 fine because the law states that you have to have proof of INTENT or be under the influence to charge murder -- she clearly did not fit the murder criteria when she killed the cyclist. She is out driving her minivan again (probably with cell phone and kids).

Maybe in the first case of this 19-year old, he got off with something like reckless driving. I don't know. Personally, I feel the laws need to change to protect cyclists ... but that is another post.

[Aggie_Ama]

She is out driving her minivan again (probably with cell phone and kids).



I may be wrong but it seems like this woman would genuinely feel remorse for her actions but she should still have her license suspended. This kid obviously didn't care at all. I agree that he should ride a bike for the rest of his life once he is out of jail.

We recently had a local Eye Doctor killed when a youg guy hit him while speeding on the wrong side of the county road. The cyclist was obeying all laws yet the grand jury declined to bring charges against the driver. I try to avoid Hays County for this reason.

[Trek420]

Personally, I feel the laws need to change to protect cyclists ... but that is another post.

I'm not a lawyer but personally I feel the law needs to protect the most vulnerable. Several tons of flying steel vs 150 lbs or so combined bike and rider. You pick who's more vulnerable. As far as I'm concerned if drivers are driving while simultaneously yacking chatting texting downloading .... they intend to hit something.

What I am is a phone company worker, a teeny tiny itsy bitsy cog in a beeg company. Your phone, land or cell does some pretty fricking amazing stuff: caller id, voicemail, forward the calls to where you're going next, sort by priority, screen calls you don't even want to answer, voice activated dialing so if you gotta call there's no reason one should be looking at the phone etc.

Hang up and drive or pull over and call, the calls and information will be there when you arrive safely. And never make intense, emotional calls while driving. "I'm running late, I picked up dinner" is one thing "I'm running away with the circus clown" is another.

If drivers can't work their phone in the first place .... probably should not be driving either :mad: This is not company policy but I'd say this is the way most of us reps feel about those who can't talk and drive responsibly.

Many communities are starting to make hands free devices the law. I think that's at least a good start.

[Starfish]

And, there are a LOT of factors that make risk of accidents increase. For instance, I understand (do not have stats handy, but my brother, an insurance agent, told me) that people in the midst of divorce proceedings are much, much more statistically likely to be involved in car accidents. Having been divorced, I can thoroughly believe this.

I think there are probably a lot of factors that we need to look at as drivers, ourselves, if we want to be as responsible as possible behind the wheel. I mean, I know that I did not always call and ask for a ride, instead of driving myself, when I was upset about my divorce. Or when I was on the way to the hospital to see my Dad after he had pulled out all his IV's and tried to escape, or...(fill in other upsetting/distracting life circumstances).

[silver]

And, there are a LOT of factors that make risk of accidents increase. For instance, I understand (do not have stats handy, but my brother, an insurance agent, told me) that people in the midst of divorce proceedings are much, much more statistically likely to be involved in car accidents. Having been divorced, I can thoroughly believe this.

I think there are probably a lot of factors that we need to look at as drivers, ourselves, if we want to be as responsible as possible behind the wheel. I mean, I know that I did not always call and ask for a ride, instead of driving myself, when I was upset about my divorce. Or when I was on the way to the hospital to see my Dad after he had pulled out all his IV's and tried to escape, or...(fill in other upsetting/distracting life circumstances).

Agreed. Driving a car....it's a privilege. We shouldn't do it when we are upset or distracted. The young man that hit Sam was driving to the store to buy a shirt to wear to his friends funeral. His mother was going to meet him at the store. The young man was upset about his friend.....was his defense. Well, then......don't drive. The friend that passed away....she had died after driving drunk into a lake. What is so wrong with asking someone to drive for us?

I couldn't drive home after Sam's accident. I had to compose myself. i did drive home after a bit, but in hindsight, I probably shouldn't have.

[Starfish]

We shouldn't do it when we are upset or distracted. ...but in hindsight, I probably shouldn't have.

We shouldn't, but who among us hasn't had at least a couple of those times when we got where we were going and didn't really remember the drive? Some things, like DUI, can and should be (better) regulated.

We will always have human beings behind the wheel.

[Aggie_Ama]

Yes it is hard to say I am too upset to drive... When my grandfather died I knew I couldn't drive, I had just sat on the floor in the middle of a Lowe's (my job at the time) and starting crying hysterically. I left my car at work and let my fiance drive me home and then another hour to meet my parents. I did not drive myself anywhere for five days.

I wasn't that smart when my dad told me he had colon cancer. I drove home crying only focusing on getting home. I could hardly compose myself, was borderline hyper-ventilating and didn't even remember the drive. It was one of the stupidest things I could have done. On that occasion it is scary to think how easy it would have been for me to not notice a pedestrian, cyclist or motorcycle. But we are human and we do make poor choices. DUI is not a stupid choice it is a crime.

[silver]

I do agree that we should get a better handle on the DUI issue. in this circumstance (same teen kills 3 cyclists) apparantly the case was sealed because he was a minor on the first offense. Because I can't find anything on his punishment....

[RoadRaven]

Just stunned... why and how could this happen - did this kid learn nothing in the 2 years? Did no-one give him driving education? Feed him stories of victims and survivors? Teach him about defensive driving?

Just gob-smacked...

[Zen]

Just stunned... why and how could this happen - did this kid learn nothing in the 2 years? Did no-one give him driving education? Feed him stories of victims and survivors? ...

No, he learned nothing because we live in a society where most people won't take responsibility for their own actions and parents have become enablers and examples of this behavior.

We don't get to see many examples of responsible behavior, either. Every time some member of congress screws up they blame it on alcohol or something other than their own lack of judgment.

[Starfish]

DUI is not a stupid choice it is a crime.

Unlike some other stupid choices, DUI is both.

[Aggie_Ama]

I do agree that we should get a better handle on the DUI issue. in this circumstance (same teen kills 3 cyclists) apparantly the case was sealed because he was a minor on the first offense. Because I can't find anything on his punishment....

And if it is like Texas they will not be able to mention it in his new trial or punishment phase. Many times this will lead to a reduced charge or sentence being handed down by the jury.