layering! please give me a how to!

[caligurl]

ok... so talk to me about layering!

i get cold.. i'm always colder than most people... i've been cold on the bike lately... but i also.. *gasp* sweat.. even though it's cold/cool! (i'm talking low 60's and yesterday even upper 50's)

i've been wearing a jersey and a jacket... (and gloves and tights or leg warmers)

when my clothes get wet (ick) i get colder

i have two rides coming up (tomorrow and next sunday) where i'll need to have cool and not so cool riding gear.. tomorrow should start out cool (for me... mid to upper 40's).. then include a hill which will make me sweaty and should also be cooler cuz of the elevation.. then the downhill.. which will be cold cuz i'll be sweaty (such an icky thing for a gurl)... then it should be half way decent at the bottom of the hill on the way back to redlands (maybe even 70! but you know how weather.com can be!)

next sunday should start out cold (hopefully upper 40's if i'm lucky but maybe even upper 30's!!!!!!!!) and we head straight up the hill.. so it will be cold but i'll be working.. and going higher! the downhill will still be cool (it looks like it only getting in the very low 60's if even! i'll know more as the the 7th gets closer!)...

soooooooooooooooo what do i wear? how are these layers supposed to work? i thought the wicking materials were supposed to get the sweat off of you.. but my wicking shirt or jersey still get's wet!

thanx!

[CorsairMac]

Is your jacket wicking also?.......if your jersey is doing its job and moving the sweat to the outside but the jacket isn't wicking material - you'll get wet. Also, the hardest thing for me to remember is - I Will acclimate. I always feel so cold when I start I was dressing to stay warm up front and then ended up being overdressed in the end. I have since found its easier to start out a little chilled. Today the wind chill was 33 and I was riding in a 14 mph headwind. I wore a tanktop, armwarmers, jersey, PI jacket, shorts, and windresistent pants. Also, wind-resistent gloves with liners and socks. I still had problems with my fingers and toes but the rest of me was quite cozy and I could - if I needed to - take the jacket off and slip it in my back pocket. Same with the warmers. You also might try unzipping some of the layers - vent some the heat out when you can - see if that helps.
PS: Tell me about being cold - I've been wearing turtlenecks to work since the highs dropped out of the 70s and I keep my AC vent closed in the summer coz its too cold for me. Sleeps with electric mattress pad And a goose down comforter in the winter and our avg lows are in the 40s! :D

[caligurl]

i don't think either one are wicking.. the light one is like a windbreaker... the heavier one is heavier material with a fuzzy lining.. both are PI...

i've gone out with less (i.e. a wicking t-shirt and the light jacket) and i got cold :(

yesterday i tried unzipping the heavier jacket a bit.. but i was getting chilled and was afraid of catching a cold :(

i was thinking of trying this tomorrow:

base layer/undershirt (polypropelene)
long sleeve jersey
jacket (not sure which one.. depends on the temp)

too much?

oh.. and sport bra.. which also gets soaked :(

[MightyMitre]

I think at this time of year when you're going to be chilly on the flat but too warm on the hills you've got to kinda stick it out.
How long are the climbs? Are we talking 2-3 mins, half an hour or longer . ( BTW we only have very short but steep little climbs where I live so I can get very hot very quickly, then back to being a bit chilly).

If you can unzip and ventilate as much as possible as you can on the climbs, you can then wrap up again for the decents/flat sections.

Do you wear any head-gear under you helmet? You could may be leave that behind at the moment or remove it for the steep climbs.

I find this time of year is a real balancing act between too cold and too hot. Might just have to experiment a bit till you find the right combination.

PS - I find things like arm warmers and wind proof gillets are really usefull, so you can add & take away from your outfit as and when. Hope this helps :)

[Veronica]

I wear wool jerseys - even when they're damp, they still keep me warm.

Veronica

[Dogmama]

Your jersey needs to wick. Arm warmers are the Goddess's gift to cycling. I live very close to a wash, so my house is always 10 degrees colder than the rest of the city. I have to be careful to not overdress because 10 miles into the ride, I'm miserable.

I ordered a face cream with an SPF from Kiehl's that is supposed to reduce wind chill. I will report when I get it.

[pedalfaster]

We probably need a FAQ on "layering".

Check out this thread. (http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=816)

For the temps/conditions you are describing, I would choose arm warmers, knee warmers, a wicking sleevless base-layer and a wind-front vest.

If it was in the 30's I'd also start off with an ear-band, magic-gloves (yep those 99 cent wonders) over my cycling gloves and toe covers (full-on insulated booties make my feet sweat if it's over 35F). If you don't own toe covers and your feet get cold, you can try to plastic baggie trick.

From your description it sound like your jacket may be the culprit. It's holding too much heat in and not allowing your sweat to evaporate.

[massbikebabe]

Cali:

I just got this from another group. Go to www.bike.com they have a great page on winter layering.

karen

[CorsairMac]

OK - this morning was 27 with 7 mph headwinds. I wore some ColdGear UnderArmor (LOVE IT!!!), leg warmers etc etc. I was very comfy all over except for my fingers. I had polypro liners and Avenir wind-resistent, padded gloves but I still lost allf the feeling in both index fingers. Anyone got any ideas what I can do about my fingers?

[MightyMitre]

Sorry CorsairMac - can't help you with this one.

While I suffer with cold feet my hands are always freakishly warm. My BF is sometimes staggered to see my wearing only summer mitts while everyone else has full finger wind-proof jobs on. I just don't get cold hands. :)

Now feet.... brrrrrrrrrr.!!:D

[pedalfaster]

for cold fingers: Lobster gloves.

gotta have 'em.

[CorsairMac]

now FEET I can help you with - I just got introduced to expedition-weight hiking socks by a company called Smartwoolies. They are guaranteed not to itch or shrink. I wore them this morning (27 degrees) without shoe covers and my feet were fine. They will fit in my cycling shoes also. I figure I can go another 5-10 degrees (farenheit Mitre :D ) before I need shoe covers.
Dear Pedal - I've looked at the Lobster Claws - will they really keep my hands warm?...do you wear liners under them?.....do you have problems braking and shifting in them? (it looks like I would)?
Anxiously Waiting for Answers in Albuquerque! :p (re: Kathie)

[slinkedog]

This thread makes me so thankful that I live where it rarely gets below 50 during the day. ;)

[CorsairMac]

refusing to read Slinkes thread - its just too cruel!

[MightyMitre]

. I wore them this morning (27 degrees) without shoe covers and my feet were fine. They will fit in my cycling shoes also. I figure I can go another 5-10 degrees (farenheit Mitre ) before I need shoe covers.

LOL - Now that would be a seriously cold foot problem if you needed overshoes at 27 degrees C. :D

Thanks for the tip - might have to see if I can find Smartwoolies over here.

I rode on Sunday and experienced a bad case of Kerb Foot. This is where your foot nearest the pavement / sidewalk is nice and warm but your foot on the traffic side totally freezes. It's very strange.:)

[pedalfaster]

Originally posted by CorsairMac

Dear Pedal - I've looked at the Lobster Claws - will they really keep my hands warm?...do you wear liners under them?.....do you have problems braking and shifting in them? (it looks like I would)?
Anxiously Waiting for Answers in Albuquerque! :p (re: Kathie)

Yes the lobsters keep your hands warmer than gloves. Same idea as mittens, but with more dexterity. Skip the liners; you want skin-on-skin contact. Braking and shifting is not any more difficult than with other full-fingered gloves.

I have had frostbite in my right middle finger; lobster gloves are the only way I'm able to ride below 35F. I like them so much I've started using them for XC skiing and walking the dog in winter as well.

[Cdalekat]

Originally posted by CorsairMac
now FEET I can help you with - I just got introduced to expedition-weight hiking socks by a company called Smartwoolies.

I have to second the motion for Smartwool! I love those socks!
(I got my first pair at REI)

[CorsairMac]

Lets hear it for REI! I just got 2 more pair last night - I'm wearing them as "slipper socks" around the house now too! and Pedal - you ROCKKKKKKKKKKK!!! I picked up the Lobster Gloves last night and wore them this morning - 31 with a 25 wind chill. My hands were comfy cozy the whole ride. I can do this ladies - and I can do this because of everyones help and advice! My advice - Never start back into cycling during the fall - I've dropped more money lately getting my "winter gear" then I probably did buying my bike! yeah yeah - it'll last me forever - but I keep shredding the receipts - I do NOT want to know what I"ve spent so far! :rolleyes:
Mitre - never heard of Kerb Foot - I can't even imagine how uncomfortable that must've been to have 1 warm foot and 1 cold foot!!

[MightyMitre]

Yeh - kerb foot it a little strange.

This was just the name a few of us decided to call it. The funny thing is,none of us can work out why the one foot should get so much colder than the other. Maybe the inside foot it more protected as there's no passing traffic to cause a breeze?? Clutching at straws here...:D

Glad the lobster mitts are a success. Nice and toasty.:)

P.S O/T - Any of you been out voting? The UK news here seems totally obsessed!!! All we've been hearing about it swing states and canvassing.

[CorsairMac]

stopped and voted on my way home last night - dressed in my bikie gear. Me and the old people volunteers! We had a blast! have you tried wearing heavier gear on the non-curb side? I agree with you - sounds like the curb is helping to "curb" the elements while the traffic side is more exposed. You could just ride on the American side of the road when the foot gets to cold! (just a thought - maybe start a traffic revolution!);)

[pedalfaster]

Originally posted by MightyMitre

P.S O/T - Any of you been out voting? The UK news here seems totally obsessed!!! All we've been hearing about it swing states and canvassing.

I walked to my polling place at lunch yesterday. No long lines in my tiny little town.

I voted for the guy with the best bike :D

Sadly, he didn't win :rolleyes:

I anyone can recommend a nice, bike-friendly country, not run by religious extremists, I'm considering a new home.... :(

[CorsairMac]

Cancun?

[pedalfaster]

Originally posted by CorsairMac
Cancun?

:D :D :D

Thanks for my laugh for the day.

One problem: I looove snow!

[kimba]

C eh?
N eh?
D eh?

Snow we got- good bikin' too!

Kimba
Canuck

[spazzdog]

I find the SmartWool socks at REI here in Massachusetts. They are great! I wear them in Doc Martens, hiking boots, work boots and my slippers :D

I always have cold feet... even in summer. The sun goes down, my feet get cold. Oh well.

[MightyMitre]

I voted for the guy with the best bike

Good choice :D Shame he didn't win.

Apparently I heard some story earlier in the year about Bush falling off a mountain bike and grazing his face! Don't like the sound of his bike handling skills. Perhaps an 'foreign' looking rider with pointed beared and a helmet shaped like a tablecloth cut him up on the trail. :D

Nice places to live....erm.. don't bother with the UK - we seem to have become the official domestique to the US. Not everyone is happy about this.

Hey- enough politics. If I was president I'd say free bikes for all.:D :

[emily_in_nc]

Originally posted by pedalfaster
I walked to my polling place at lunch yesterday. No long lines in my tiny little town.

I voted for the guy with the best bike :D

Sadly, he didn't win :rolleyes:

I anyone can recommend a nice, bike-friendly country, not run by religious extremists, I'm considering a new home.... :(

When you find one, pf, I'll move there with you!

Sigh.... :(

[jobob]

Denmark. As an added plus, practically everyone speaks excellent English, and the men are breathtaking :D

(and, in the intersts of equal time, so are the women - tho I have to admit that is also a minus because it makes us, ahem, 'normal' looking women even more, ahem, 'normal' looking in comparison)

I'd put in for a transfer, but I'm very much on the verge of telling my boss to take this job and shove it, so I suppose following up with a transfer request wouldn't work. :p

[pedalfaster]

Originally posted by MightyMitre
Hey- enough politics. If I was president I'd say free bikes for all.:D :

Now that is a platform I can heartily endorse!

MightyMitre for president! (or would that be queen of the universe?)

:D

[jobob]

One of my favorite cool-weather pieces of clothing is my cycling jacket - I can zip off the sleeves and convert it to a vest.

[MightyMitre]

Cool idea. Sometimes I just wear my vest and get a bit cold but to be able to take the arms and zip them on if need been sounds great. What brand is your jacket?

[jobob]

My jacket is a Pearl Izumi "Vagabond" jacket - I bought mine at the LBS, but you can also find it via mail order from a variety of places, including our fine site sponsor :D

http://www.teamestrogen.com/products.asp?pID=10502

Mine is in a fetching shade of coral-ish red, which matches the color my face takes on after a long uphill or in cold weather (color coordination being key, after all ....). I think TE only carries it in blue, but it looks like a very nice color.

I thought long & hard before I bought it, I thought it was awfully pricey and I couldn't find it for any less than full retail <cough, cough>, but it turns out to be the most versatile piece of cycling clothing I own and well worth the price.

If you look under "vests" in the TE site you'll find a variety of jackets that can convert to vests. I believe alll of the jackets on this page below have zip-off sleeves:

http://www.teamestrogen.com/categories.asp?catID=34

Also, Cannondale makes one - I had originally bought the Cannondale convertible jacket but the sleeves were ludicrously long so I returned it.

[MightyMitre]

Nice jacket!


Mine is in a fetching shade of coral-ish red, which matches the color my face takes on after a long uphill or in cold weather (color coordination being key, after all ....).

LOL - face/jacket co-ordination. Now there's a thought !! :p

[Veronica]

I have two jackets. One is a bright yellow Canari with zip off sleeves. The other I just bought a couple of weeks from TE because the Canari is really more of a windstopper than a rain stopper. :D It soaked through in a torrential downpour on my very short commute to work.

So I got this one
Sugoi Jacket (http://www.teamestrogen.com/products.asp?pID=7278)

It was expensive but it stops the wind even better than the Canari and hopefully the water too. I haven't been out in as fierce a storm yet. The pit zips help to keep me pretty well ventilated.

Veronica

[Trek420]

MightyMitre wrote ~ I heard some story earlier in the year about Bush falling off a mountain bike and grazing his face! Don't like the sound of his bike handling skills.

his facial injuries would have been worse but he was wearing...a mouth guard. a mouth gaurd!!? on a bike? He fell off a Segway too....this is not boxing, there's no mouth guards in cycling.. sheesh kabob, well not to politicize the board but still completely bumbed out. Canada sounds good, my sister's invited me to Norway....

[MightyMitre]

Like the Sugoi jacket too. The pit zips would suit me too. I like to be warm but at the same time I like some ventilation.

Trek 420 - Norway sounds like a good option. Can I come too? I bet there's some nice mtb riding in the summer. They also have a road ride there in the summer where you ride from sunrise to sunset. Can't remember the name of it but they get loads of people taking part.

But don't forget to take your mouth guard.....!!!:D :p :D

[newfsmith]

Originally posted by pedalfaster
Yes the lobsters keep your hands warmer than gloves. Same idea as mittens, but with more dexterity. Skip the liners; you want skin-on-skin contact. Braking and shifting is not any more difficult than with other full-fingered gloves. .

I have had the opposite experience. The first winter I commuted I used pogies made by Terry, "Bullwinkles" These were great for warmth, dexterity, and wind protection down to 0F/-18C. However, I did have a safety concern in traffic; everytime I made a hand signal, it was a bit awkward getting my hand back into the pogie (& onto the handlebar) while riding. So I bought Lobsters. I was quite disappointed because my fingers were cold as soon as the temp dropped below freezing. Wool mittens topped with leather mitts were much warmer, but obviously not as dextrous. I finally tried some Descente liner gloves with the lobsters, and that made all the difference. The combination is as good as the pogies but are much better for hand signals.

[pedalfaster]

Originally posted by newfsmith
I have had the opposite experience.... I finally tried some Descente liner gloves with the lobsters, and that made all the difference.

newfsmith,

Thanks for posting this. I *should* have posted a disclaimer that my winter commute is generally in the 20-30F range. :)

Good to know that liners can extend the temp range of the lobsters!

-pedalfaster <--wimpy commuter :o

[Trek420]

MightyMitre

you may be thinking of The Great Test of Strength which is a ride from Trondheim to Oslo. Pro riders do it in a day or under, mere mortals take two days. BYOC, that's bring your own crew, it's totally unsuported. My sister and brother in law have been trying to get me to go, maybe i will!

Oh, back to the subject at hand I know that they (Norwegian side o' the fambly) often bike to work in the Northern Norway winter and they use....Lobsters

[MightyMitre]

Oh, back to the subject at hand I know that they (Norwegian side o' the fambly) often bike to work in the Northern Norway winter and they use....Lobsters

Hee- hee ! Nicely done Trek. :p

My apologies to others for veering off the subject. :)