Bike Lane Magic

[kfergos]

This isn't exactly a close call, but I think it falls into that category anyway.

A couple weeks ago, my boss and I were talking about my bike commute. I had just come in having nearly hit a truck that zipped in front of me and then immediately slammed on its breaks, and I complained to her that such behavior really wasn't polite of drivers. She briefly commiserated, then said, "But the other day I was really annoyed at some bicyclists. They were really rude."

I listened politely, surprised, since bicyclists usually are quite polite to vehicles several thousand pounds of metal larger than themselves.

She continued: "I was in Concord, and the road is really narrow there, and there's not much of a shoulder, and these bicyclists were RIGHT OUT IN THE ROAD!"

Briefly dumbfounded, since that's just where bikes belong in that situation, I summoned enough wits to ask (as politely as I could), "Where would you rather have them ride, if there's no shoulder?"

"They should ride in bike lanes," she proclaimed grandly.

"Well, yeah! Everybody would ride in bike lanes if they had them, for sure," I agreed vehemently. "Were there bike lanes there?"

"No," she said, "but they should've been in bike lanes."

...to which I had no response, so I went and took my shower, shaking my head as I went. What did she want those fast-moving recreational bicyclists to do, really? Magically create a lane for themselves?

[bmccasland]

Or a rip in the space-time-continuum thing where bikes and cars share the same road space at the same time without actually hitting each other. :D

And when that happens, there will be much rejoicing by all.

[Zen]

Oh dear.
I only hope her business logic is better than her real-world logic.

[Geonz]

Seriously! I wouldn't want to trust her thinking.

[Crankin]

Are you talking about Concord, MA? We have had a real problem with SOME groups of riders who are riding 2-3 across Lowell Rd. and Monument St. This is a very popular area for club rides and for people from Boston who think they are having a day "out in the country." Now, I do not agree with your friend who should be smart enough to see that there are no bike lanes on narrow country roads! But, the law says that riders should be riding single file. Whe I lead rides, I insist upon it. You don't need to be squished up against the side of the road, but if you are riding single file, it is easier to move over and let the cars pass. Police are ticketing riders for this in several surrounding towns.
Even if you are talking about a different Concord, riders should not be two abreast.

[spokewench]

It is legal to ride two abreast here in Arizona - as long as it is practicable. Just as you are supposed to ride to the farthest right side as long as it is practicable (Practicable means basically safe for you on your bike)

Anyway, you need to use your common sense - If it is too narrow to ride two abreast, don't. If it is too narrow to ride one abreast - do it anyway! Hopefully, they will build you a bike lane it the next millenium!:eek:

[Eden]

What did she want those fast-moving recreational bicyclists to do, really? Magically create a lane for themselves?

Well of course everyone should know that bicycles are toys and don't belong out on streets with real traffic......

Seriously though there are people who think like that. If there isn't a path or a bicycle lane then they don't think bicycles should be allowed - or even more frightening they already believe that bicycles are NOT allowed - I'm sure we've all had the experience of someone who drives too close while yelling out their window that we're supposed to ride on the sidewalk, that it's illegal to ride on the street or some other nonsense. I know that out here our drivers often have a frightening lack of knowledge of traffic laws (its right through red says the guy who ran over my husbands foot in a crosswalk.......)

[kfergos]

Are you talking about Concord, MA?Yep! And I agree, the bicyclists wrong if they weren't single file. But I got the impression that even single-file bicycling wouldn't have pleased her, honestly. Bikes on the road sounded like a personal affront to her, regardless of how politely they were riding.

[Running Mommy]

My neighbor who actually is a really good friend tells me all the time that she hates bicyclists. It dumbfounds me as well- since we are friends and *I* happen to be such an avid cyclists. She uses the typical "You know the jerk cyclists that don't follow the rules of the road and ride in big groups blocking the roads". To which I have to explain that just like idiot CAR drivers, there are idiot BIKE riders as well- but that she shouldn't lump us all in one category.
She went as far as to say that she used to tell her kids as they passed a cyclist "quick open the car door".. :mad:
Boy did I give her the what for over THAT one! I chastised her for not only modeling bad behavior, but teaching her kids to have ill will towards other cyclists/human beings...
Did she get the hint?? Probably not.... sigh.... And this is a lady who is the mother of a severely handicapped little girl. If anyone should have compassion you would think it would be her? Go figure?!

[Eden]

She went as far as to say that she used to tell her kids as they passed a cyclist "quick open the car door".. :mad:
Boy did I give her the what for over THAT one! I chastised her for not only modeling bad behavior, but teaching her kids to have ill will towards other cyclists/human beings...
Did she get the hint?? Probably not.... sigh.... And this is a lady who is the mother of a severely handicapped little girl. If anyone should have compassion you would think it would be her? Go figure?!

Does she understand (perhaps now that you've given her a dressing down) that she could cause her child to KILL someone!!!! That is so irresponsible, not only could it take a life, it could mentally scar the child, who would have been innocently doing what mommy told them to, for his/her entire life.

A few years ago some ding-a-ling kids around here thought they'd have a little fun with cyclists - they were holding something out of a car window, I think it may have been a jacket? and they hit a cyclist (who also happend to be a priest or pastor I believe) with it. Well he crashed and died, so those kids have to live with that for the rest of their lives now. I really think that a lot of people don't understand how fragile human beings can be and that a fall from a bike (especially when hit with an object held, thrown etc. from a speeding vehicle) isn't just a funny thing that the person will always stand up and walk away fine from.

[RoadRaven]

Eden, excellent tack to take.

Thats how I always try and advise my students when they come to me with a "work issue" which is almost always about relationships.

I try and help them see it from the other person's perspective and how it affects the other person so the antagonist "buys in" to the proposed solution.

Def talk to her about how messages, when reinforced like this in children, can become a reality. Sure, she can grump to them about cyclists (and car-drivers) who break road rules and are discourteous, and explain how she hopes her children will be better road users, and explain exactly what was not ok about the road-use behaviour.

But openly supporting aggressive, dangerous thinking or behaviour is not ok. She has a responsibility as a parent to help her children into successful lives, and her current "parenting" does not fit this category!

That, coupled with Eden's suggestion of the potential trauma and legal issues her kids could face because of aggressive behaviour as adults... and by turn her as she supports them through grief, guilt and/or courts... well, that might just make her stop and think.

Does she realise these people are someone's parents, children, lovers, best friends? Does she not realise that their taxes fund roads too?

*Raven tsk-tsks and shakes her head in disbelief...*

[Crankin]

Well, Kfergos, I understand the issue. Your friend is really wrong, in attitude, etc., but like someone else said, there are as***** cyclists as well as drivers. I hate it when other cyclists do something that makes all of us look bad. This is a major issue around here. A few years ago, my son who was racing at the time was on a training ride in Groton with our exchange student who had recently arrived from Germany. They were stopped by the police and given a stern warning not to ride side by side. They thought it was really mean, but I had to take the policeman's side.
RM, I can't believe your friend would say that to her kids. Is she nuts??? When my husband started riding he regularly had things thrown at him, ususally out of pick up trucks, with people screaming "fag" at him. Cycling is so popular around here now, it never happens anymore.

[Voodoo Sally]

Sigh. I've seen this around here, too. I work & ride in Concord, and I see tons of other cyclists around. Most of them are fine. But then I do see the occasional club riders riding up Monument & Lowell 2 or 3 abreast, knowing that you're right behind them (in your car), waiting to pass, and it really pisses me off. It's rude and dangerous. My non-cycling friend up on Westford Rd. regularly gripes to me about the "d*** cyclists" around here, and I have to agree the the 2-abreast ones are jerks, but I must point out that the problem ones are the minority, and not to hate us all. I hope my words (and the fact that I'm her friend) can ameliorate her general feeling about cyclists. One bad cyclist can paint us all in a bad light. I don't permit people I'm riding with to ride 2-abreast.

[Eden]

Just remember if you go out of your area that in many places 2 abreast is totally legal, so before you condemn cyclists know the local laws. Out here in Seattle our laws read no more than two abreast when riding in areas not specifically set aside for cyclists.
Though some may find it annoying to see two cyclists abreast, around here where few roads have a wide shoulder, if any at all, one cyclist positioned safely in the lane should take up pretty much just as much space as two cyclists riding closely abreast. (occupying about 1/3rd of the lane). As a result, two should not necessarily be harder to pass than one.

[mimitabby]

I just came back from Italy where bikes and cars get along. their streets are about as wide as one of our lanes and still everyone manages.
When things get tight, cars actually STOP or slow down until they can pass the bicyclist safely. Bicyclists on the other hand, go single file when there is traffic.

People in cars smile at bicyclists, and the other people we saw in bikes were of all ages. Imagine a world like that! it exists. Honestly, i was passed by huge trucks. It was scary, because I could have made a mistake and gone too close to the truck drivers, but the truck drivers didn't hate me for being there. That makes all the difference in the world.

[Trek420]

What did she want those fast-moving recreational bicyclists to do, really? Magically create a lane for themselves?

Yes!!

Sorta like a snow plow. Rig an attachment in front that paints the bike lane ahead of you (and plants "share the road" sign on the right side each block) where no bike lane exists. :cool: