Interesting Marathon Training Plan

[colby]

I found in Competitor Northwest magazine's August issue an interesting marathon training plan. I call it the "marathon trainer for triathletes who get bored with running" but it's really a multi-sport version of a marathon training plan. I did all-running last year and got a little bored, but I really did stick with it. I'm about to shift gears to marathon training from triathlon training and this is looking really appealing. I get a chance to keep some of my base in my triathlon sports but still train for the marathon. It won't feel really weird to pick up the bike in December/January when I start IM training (still a weird thing for me to say).

I tried to find the plan online with no luck. The basic plan has very few days off, but has lots of easy days built in.

Basically:
Monday: easy something - bike, run, or swim
Tuesday: moderate - always a bike or run, some hills, some tempo, some sprints
Wednesday: moderate - some hills, some tempo, some easy swims, some easy runs
Thursday: easy run, later in the plan some hills
Friday: varies week to week, 1 hour swim or run
Saturday: short easy run or bike
Sunday: alternating long run and long bike ride (longest run 22 miles, longest ride 3 hours)

I'm a little concerned it's not enough running, but I suppose I could swap out some of the riding/swimming days for more running days. I have held most of my running improvement even though I've seriously slacked off on my running over the summer. I don't want to make up for it all at once, but if I need to put in more miles on my feet, I need to put in more miles.

My goal is to cut about 2 minutes off of my 12 minute pace from last year, where I got beat in the last 6 miles (of course). It was my first marathon, very educational. I would settle for a 10:30 pace. I would truly settle for finishing and some better weather than last year. ;)

Anyone have any advice? Should I try it, or should I stick with a traditional marathon pound the pavement type plan? Will it actually help me keep my base, or will I just burn out on all 3 sports?

[KSH]

Colby, as you know I have not run a marathon before... and the only one I'm doing is at the end of an Ironman... BBBUUUUTTTT... I think you need to look at what you did last year and the results that training produced.

Honestly, that marathon training plan looks very odd. But for some people, the cross training might do them good. I know for me, I can't run everyday so it would work for me. Now, how fast would my marathon be... who knows?

[VeloVT]

It's a little hard to tell from the way you've described it (without more detail), but here are the questions I would have:

--are you running enough consistently during the week to support your long runs? you can't run a 20 mile long run if your total running mileage that week is 36 miles, for instance, even if you're doing a lot of biking and swimming too.

--cross-training is great but running is what makes you a better/faster runner. Biking makes very different demands and personally, I've found that when I get back into a running program after spending a summer mostly biking, my legs are great and never get tired but my heart and lungs are not quite in shape to sustain the speeds I expect to be able to sustain. Running is harder cardiovascularly than biking, in general. And swimming intervals/biking intervals cannot replace running intervals, if your goal is to run your fastest race. I think if I were to try a program like this, I would be religious about wearing a hr moniter, because it's much harder to keep your hr up at running levels when you're biking, and you will need to if you're going to benefit from the cross-training.

--Is it clear what the goals of each workout are? For instance, increasing VO2max, increasing endurance, increasing lactate threshold... and are they planned or periodized in a logical way that's likely to acheive those goals, or is it sort of a mish-mash?

--Does the volume of the cross-training come close to replacing the volume of the running you WOULD be doing? For instance if you'd normally be running 60 mile weeks, are you biking long enough to stimulate the same increase in endurance (keeping in mind that running for two hours is much more taxing than riding for two hours, for example)?

I guess that's it :) . I don't mean to sound negative -- I don't know if this kind of program will work well or not. It very well might. I'm a little skeptical, but I think what I would want to do is take a hard look at my goals, figure out what I need to do to acheive the goals, and see if the program measures up from that perspective.

[limewave]

It is a little hard to tell what the program is exactly. But, you know, when I trained for the marathon, I only ran 3 days a week. One day was usually a pace day, then a mid-distance, and lastly a long run. But I also kept up with my cycling in between that. The 3-day a week program emphasizes cross-training which was important to me. I felt confident going into the marathon and I did pretty well (for me).

[colby]

Thanks ladies. I don't want to violate copyrights or anything, but here's a sample 2 weeks from the middle of the plan:

Week 9:
Monday: Off
Tuesday: 40-min easy run
Wednesday: Tempo run, 3mi
Thursday: 30-min easy, easy run
Friday: 1-hour lap swim
Saturday: 20-30-min easy run
Sunday: 19 mi long run

Week 10:
Monday: 30-min water running
Tuesday: AM 40-min easy run
Wednesday: Tempo run, 3 mi
Thursday: 30-min easy, easy run
Friday: 1-hour hilly easy/moderate run
Saturday: 2+ hour long, easy bike ride

As you can see, it's actually a lot of running in the core part of the plan. They substitute lap swimming for Fridays off, and have water running on the recovery days. A lot of the cross-training present in the beginning fades out toward the middle except for the long rides and swimming.

I hope that helps. Wish I could paste the whole thing but I think that'd be bad. It was written by T.J. Murphy, who I assume is the same T.J. Murphy of Triathlete.

[VeloVT]

My biggest concern (and it's not like I'm any kind authority on this -- I've trained for two so far and not run in either, for various reasons -- so take it for what it's worth :o ) is that the second longest run on the long run week (40 min) is probably not more than 6 miles or so (unless you're very fast!). I would want to see at least one, maybe more, 10-12 milers (or some 30/35ish bike rides to do a similar amount of work without the pounding -- but keeping your hr up pretty high if it's going to really substitute for running) in a week that included a 19-mile long run. Also the mileage is pretty low to support those long runs -- the long run is more than half of your weekly mileage. For me, I would worry about how comfortable I'd be maintaining my pace for the long run distance without more endurance training during the week. But again, that's just my comfort zone, others' mileage may vary :D .

For me, and I'm sure this varies, pushing up the mileage really makes me faster (and able to hold my pace over distance), so I think this prejudices how I view a given training plan. The first time I trained I dropped from 10 min miles to 7 min miles in about two and a half months -- no speedwork, just lots of miles. I'm planning on training for a marathon next May that I really hope to RUN this time (just starting "pre-training" 'cuz I got out of running shape this summer, but won't start serious training until January), and I do intend to incorporate speed training... But still, I'm a big fan of piling on the miles. I found that it really changed my body and my abilities more than I ever expected. But, the reason I didn't run the last one was because I got injured... and that's always a lurking possibility with high mileage.

[colby]

Liza, I think you're right about the mid-week volume, it seems really light. It seems like it's pretty close to the right type of running, but not the right amount. But then I go back and forth when I do the math...

Here's a sample from later in the plan, including the last long run (week 15 of 18, 22 miles):

Week 14
Mon: 30 min water running
Tue: 45-min easy/moderate run
Wed: 20-min run or 30-min swim
Thu: 8x1-min hills
Fri: 1-hour easy bike
Sat: 3-mi tempo
Sun: 2-3 hour easy bike

Week 15
Mon: Easy 40-min swim or water run
Tue: 1-hour steady pace run
Wed: 20-min easy run
Thu: 1-hour run w/a few sprints
Fri: 45-min easy run
Sat: 3-mi easy run
Sun: 22-mi run

An hour of running for me is somewhere between 6 and 7 miles, 45-minutes would be about 5 miles, at a comfortable pace. Easy pace would be 10 minute miles on easy terrain. So, in week 14, we're talking maybe 12 miles plus swimming, 1 hour riding, and the 2-3 hour bike. In week 15, we're talking 19 miles plus swimming and the 22 mile long run.

The "on" weeks are very run-focused, while the "off" weeks use cycling instead. It's hard for me to measure that volume. :confused:

Maybe I'll go back to an all-running plan... or pay someone to answer these questions for me instead of just being confused and bugging you gals. ;)