Not sure what I think of this ...

[Duck on Wheels]

This in today's Oslo newspaper: Gunn-Rita Dahle poses for "lamb chop" cycling calendar. http://www.kjendis.no/2007/08/21/509565.html
I gather from the calendar site that earlier versions used girlie-calendar models, just posing with the odd bike gadget. Lately, however, they use actual cyclists. Is that any better? What would I feel about meeting this "in my face" when I come into the LBS to pick up a spare tube or whatever? I'm not sure. On the one hand, it shows that biker gals can be sexy in that old-fashioned men's wet-dream sense. On the other hand, why not show her actually biking, mud-spattered and muscular? Why is she posing in lingerie on the sofa with the bike parked in the background?

[Zen]

Why would she do that?

I don't know who she is but she's apparently known as a cyclist.
I'm disappointed but she must have issues (money or self-image) that need resolved.

She certainly isn't helping the cause of advancing womens sports.

[Veronica]

Some people just like showing off their bodies. It doesn't mean she has issues.

V.

[Zen]

Some people just like showing off their bodies. It doesn't mean she has issues.

V.

So that guy who opened his raincoat at me was perfectly normal. What a relief!

[Bad JuJu]

Why is she posing in lingerie on the sofa with the bike parked in the background?
That would be my question. I don't know what the point of the calendar is or what else is in it, but if it's just a bunch of cycling women posing like this so someone can make some money, I find that offensive. I mean, the bike is only a prop or an afterthought. OTOH, if there is an equal number of scantily dressed men posing in this way, and it's a calendar being sold to benefit a charity, say, to buy bikes for disadvantaged people, I'd be a little less critical, I suppose.

A few years ago, Specialized advertised a new saddle with photos of nearly-naked women and fragments of nearly naked women (you can guess which fragments). After that, I wouldn't have had a Specialized saddle if you gave it to me.

Don't get me started. :eek: :D

[Starfish]

I like this better than the Specialized Angel, by far.

Unrelated...but kinda related...I used to have some next-door neighbors, an apparently successfully married couple with 3 kids, who met because she had posed in a Scandinavian girly mag, and he had seen it here in the U.S.. He was so attracted to her picture that he tracked her down across the globe through her agent, flew there, met her, courted her, and now they have been married for something like 18 years. They were nice, fun people and great neighbors.

I just always kind of got a kick out of that story. Now THAT guy was a go getter. (Or, a go-get-her!!) :p

[LBTC]

Hey, Zen, I'm pretty sure she's won some Olympic races, as well as World cup races, in mountain biking. And I agree with Duck - I would be more inspired and eager to get out and ride if at least some of the poses were actual biking shots! The marketers understand the market, though. The women's market is very small compared to the men's, so whatever she is selling will probably sell to men just fine.

H&B
~T~

[mimitabby]

okay,
here i go.

The human body can be really beautiful. Photographs can be art.
Some people really appreciate that kind of art, others don't.
Part of why my own sister is not talking to me is that she can't stand
how some men (that i might be married to) "OBJECTIFY" women by verbally appreciating them.

If this person wants to pose for photos, and she's being paid, and people like
them, WHAT DOES IT HURT?

[Kimmyt]

I dunno, I don't find the photos that offensive. I mean, its not like she was coerced into doing them. In fact, if you look at it from that point of view, don't you think that she is really OWNING her own body? Yeah, guys might get off on those pictures, but some guys get off to anything.

I don't really think those photos are that aesthetically pleasing, actually. It would be much better if the photos were done in the style of Stone Nudes (you can google it to see), a famous naked woman rock climbing calendar, which has some really phenomenal shots in it....the female body is really a beautiful thing, when presented in an artistic way.

And you know what? If I was rocking a body like hers, and someone wanted me to pose next to a bike wearing a pair of hotpants and a bathing suit top, damn sure I would. It would be fun to feel like a supermodel. And I would bet money that she agreed to the specific amount of skin shown in every one of those photos.

K.

[sgtiger]

Wowee!:eek: If I had a body like that, I'd show it off too. No one would have to pay me, but it wouldn't hurt. Hey, I could use the proceeds to buy bike accessories.:D ;)

[Veronica]

I'm just amused. We have the red shorts thread - AGAIN! Which has become the let's get all our guys into kilts thread. :)

Why is a female posing semi nude offensive? It's all right for straight chicks to have their eye candy, but something for those who prefer ladies is deemed offensive. Sounds like a double standard to me.

They are not going to mix up the models, some male, some female because that doesn't appeal to either audience. :D

V.

[mimitabby]

Duck, it would be fun to have a calendar full of muddy models!! :D :D

any volunteers?

[Starfish]

They are not going to mix up the models, some male, some female because that doesn't appeal to either audience. :D
V.

It would appeal to me. I'm not gay, but I enjoy looking at beautiful bodies of either sex, artfully posed.

[spokewench]

We all know that SEX sells. It is used in many types of advertising. Gunn Rita dahle has kicked most everyone else's butts for many years. I hear that this year, she fell off that first always theme as she has some health issues.

She is an amazing racer - has a great body and is making money because she has some notoriety!

Good for her!

[spokewench]

Duck, it would be fun to have a calendar full of muddy models!! :D :D

any volunteers?


The Wombats did their own version of mud modeling - not sure where there might be a link to that???

[Veronica]

It would appeal to me. I'm not gay, but I enjoy looking at beautiful bodies of either sex, artfully posed.


Ahhh... but you're enlightened female. :) Imagine the flack stereotypical male garage mechanic in Middle America would get from his drinking buddies with pictures of semi nude guys in his calendar.

V.

[twiggjlm]

She is pretty much amazing, regardless of what she looks like! That's just an added bonus for her. Her goal is to be the best mountain biker in the world! I don't see any issues with that! More power to her! :cool:

[jobob]

I don't recall anyone speculating that Lance had "issues" when he posed nude. :rolleyes:

So let's see if I understand correctly - it's OK for Lance to pose nude, but if a woman athlete poses nude, there's something wrong with her.

m'kay.

[Pedal Wench]

Why is a female posing semi nude offensive? It's all right for straight chicks to have their eye candy, but something for those who prefer ladies is deemed offensive. Sounds like a double standard to me.


V.

There IS a double standard. The difference is that we posted the red shorts, and all got a good giggle about it. What the men do with photos of women is just a tad bit different, don't you think? Plus, the environment in which women are objectified in this country can be downright hostile. Even men can probably tell the difference when they look at something as 'art', which is how I would view pictures of the female form, and something they view in a lewd way.

[Zen]

Why is a female posing semi nude offensive? It's all right for straight chicks to have their eye candy, but something for those who prefer ladies is deemed offensive. Sounds like a double standard to me.


V.
I'm fairly certain no one said it was offensive.
I think the point that's being entirely missed here is the association with cycling/women's sports.
It took Title IV to get our team uniforms in high school.

If this weren't associated with cycling I'd have no problem with it. As it is now, it doesn't exactly command respect for her as a cyclist.
Watch VH-1. There are loads of girls who will take their clothes off.

It seems the fight has been forgotten. Enjoy the shade .

[East Hill]

I'm fairly certain no one said it was offensive.
I think the point that's being entirely missed here is the association with cycling/women's sports.
It took Title IV to get our team uniforms in high school.

If this weren't associated with cycling I'd have no problem with it. As it is now, it doesn't exactly command respect for her as a cyclist.
Watch VH-1. There are loads of girls who will take their clothes off.

It seems the fight has been forgotten. Enjoy the shade .

It took Title IV to force my high school to allow me to take auto mechanics because that class was for 'men'. It took Title IV to force my high school to NOT force me to take cooking or sewing because those classes were for 'girls'.

As zencentury said: Enjoy the shade.

East Hill

[mimitabby]

It would appeal to me. I'm not gay, but I enjoy looking at beautiful bodies of either sex, artfully posed.

EXACTLY

ever been to a museum filled with classic art??

[stacie]

I too think it seems tasteful. The message I got was it's great to be strong AND sexy.

[Duck on Wheels]

Just to clarify ... I'm not offended. And I do appreciate both men's and women's bodies esthetically when artfully posed or drawn or painted or sculpted, even though I happen to prefer sex with men. I don't happen to be all that visually oriented in the lemonade department; for stimulation external to the relationship, I find texts and the images I imagine more tantalizing. And although I can see where this may be fodder for the imaginations of some, I don't read these images as explicitly pornographic. So my question was more about what this trend says about sports, or does for sports. And it is a trend. Lately there's been a lot of quasiporn posing by both men and women top athletes, in skiing and snowboarding and younameit. Not just biking. http://www1.vg.no/bildespesial/show/spesial.php?id=680
From my point of view, yeah, they've got great bods, they're having fun, they're getting paid, they've cleared it with serious advisors ... so no, they personally are not being exploited. But how are they affecting the kids who admire them? And are they distracting from the esthetic of the sport itself, the majesty of the effort and skill? I guess there is a marginal benefit here, from presenting buff bods as sexy, not just skinny ones. It might encourage fitness, rather than anorexia. So maybe all in all, this is a good thing.

[Zen]

I guess there is a marginal benefit here, from presenting buff bods as sexy, not just skinny ones. It might encourage fitness, rather than anorexia. So maybe all in all, this is a good thing.

Girls and women suffer far too much from body image issues.
There are bodies of all types represented on this forum and some of the women here would not describe themselves as either "buff' or skinny but I know they're incredible athletes.
Showing real women and real bodies (like in the Dove ads)would be more inspiring.
Images like this inspire more self-loathing than encouragement.

[mimitabby]

Just to clarify ... I'm not offended.the majesty of the effort and skill? I guess there is a marginal benefit here, from presenting buff bods as sexy, not just skinny ones. It might encourage fitness, rather than anorexia. So maybe all in all, this is a good thing.

As i suspected; you meant something much more profound than we assumed.

[East Hill]

Sorry folks, but the minute I see someone posing with high heels who purports to be an 'athlete'--no.

She is an athlete. But she's not an athlete in those photos, she's just a female body posing with a bike. Please don't tell me that she's going to ride her bike in those boots, or those shoes.

Are WE going to hang that calendar up on the wall? No, I think it's the adolescent guys for the most part, or their dads who will put up that calendar.

East Hill

[maillotpois]

No one responded to Jo - what's the difference between this photo and the Lance / Leibovitz nude photo?

There was a GREAT calendar put out last year by the Marin Breast Cancer Fund with local Bay Area "poster boys" - many of whom had friends, relatives with breast cancer - posing nude to raise money for the Fund. All tasteful. Kind of a sweet idea. I can't remember what they called the calendar, some catchy name. ETA: Pink Ribbon Men of Marin: http://www.usatoday.com/life/lifestyle/2004-12-13-naked-men_x.htm


I think this Gunn-Rita photo is a way more positive image for women than the stick insects that walk fashion shoot runways. Plus, like someone said, if I had that body I probably wouldn't wear clothes much at all!! :D

[Pedal Wench]

No one responded to Jo - what's the difference between this photo and the Lance / Leibovitz nude photo?



Lance's image was a body in motion - an athlete doing what his body is trained to do. If he were sprawled on a bearskin rug, I would say there's no difference at all.

[lph]

Lance's image was a body in motion - an athlete doing what his body is trained to do. If he were sprawled on a bearskin rug, I would say there's no difference at all.

I agree. I have to admit, I don't like the photos, but I'm having trouble putting words to why. I would get a huge kick out of a photo of her posed like Lance was, bent over a bike, muscles bulging, focused look ahead.
It's the whole come hither look, "shy" arms over her breasts, flash of crotch and coy smile that bug me. Her entire pose is classic pin-up style. Not offensive, just - not quite worthy of the amazing athlete she is. In my mind.

And no, I don't believe that she's being used or exploited. It's her body, she can pose anyway she likes. I'm just responding to my view of her as a role model.

[maillotpois]

Good points - the body in motion as opposed to reclining on the couch. But the bike is behind her, she's not in heels or anything stupid like that.

[teawoman]

And the one with her touching the saddle is...er...not about the bike.

[Starfish]

EXACTLY
ever been to a museum filled with classic art??


What the men do with photos of women is just a tad bit different, don't you think?

And, in the interest of honest discussion, I have to say that sometimes I'm looking at photos as I would a piece of classic art in a museum, and sometimes I'm looking at them in very much the same way some guys look at some pictures, sometimes. But I realize I might be in a minority of women on that.

[Pedal Wench]

You know, I wonder if it's something much simpler. I looked at the second link that DuckOW posted,and noticed that there are really two types of pictures. One is the sexy pose - that 'come hither' look in the eye. One of a downhiller is actually fondling herself. Compare that one with some of the team photos where the girls are all smiles and laughing. One is meant for fun, the other to entice.

[East Hill]

Good points - the body in motion as opposed to reclining on the couch. But the bike is behind her, she's not in heels or anything stupid like that.

But when she is with the bike, she's in heels. And there is one photo of her with high heeled boots on the sofa with the bike behind her. That's the point. Lance's photo is all about the sheer enjoyment of the bike, with nothing intruding. He's not got his hands coyly cupped around his genitals. If he were posed EXACTLY the same way she was, it would be soft porn, and not art.

If she were posed the same way as Lance, it would be art as well. She's never IN MOTION riding the bike.

And her photographer is no Ann Leibowitz.

East Hill

[Deborajen]

When I look at those pictures, what sits in the back of mind are all the struggles women always seem to have to go through to be taken seriously. Men's cycling gets some attention in the U.S. but women's gets practically none. I don't think the pictures are actually offensive. She's gorgeous, and it's great to see a fit woman portrayed as sexy. There are too many anorexic-looking women in the media. But what gets me is the thought of why women always seem to have to flaunt their bodies to get attention - why does it take T's and A's to draw attention to women's sports, women in the workplace, etc.?

Not sure entirely what I think, either, but I do think it's hard to see those pictures as any comparison to, say, the nude picture of Lance, because of what women have gone through to try to gain some equality.

Deb

[Mr. Bloom]

This MAY be one of those times when a man should keep his opinions to himself, but in case someone cares about a male perspective:

First, I've seen lewd before, and this isn't lewd and I don't find the poses particularly offensive...but I could see where some of you do.

However...

A few years back, I was in the grocery check-out and there in front of me was LIFE magazine with a cover picture of the US Men's Olympic Soccer Team NUDE except for soccer balls covering their "boy bits". I WAS INCREDIBLY offended and flummoxed by what I saw as an unnecessary display:eek:

Why was I offended?

Am I prudish? No
Was I turned on? No
Were they in an offensive pose? No, a speedo would have been more revealing...and the pose was completely asexual...


For me, I was offended because they were flaunting what I wasn't...buff, athletic, lean...etc. Just like many woman who appreciated the Leibovitz picture of Lance may be offended by Gunne-Rita's photo spread, I am more often offended by same gender "show all's" that leave me shaking my head with a "what were they thinking???" bewilderment.

Now, if a man appreciates the female form, is he automatically objectifying her? I don't think so...do you remember the responses to the "HOT MALE RIDERS (http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=15158)" thread that has gotten 8,254 views in the last 3.5 months on this very forum??? Do the member of this forum objectify men by looking at that 8,254 times....the second most views on the non-cycling forum???

Don't misunderstand, porn does objectify women...and men too. But, those pictures are usually clearly lewd and I suspect often that the women (and men) in those pictures lack self respect...and personally, I feel sorry for them...but I say this as a 44 year old...I didn't have the wisdom or insight to understand that when I was 18 years old...

[KnottedYet]

How much is the photographer?

How much is the intended audience?

How much is the model?

I will cheefully admit that I like some of the "hot" pictures of Jessi Stensland riding on her bike in a race, or holding her bike over her head, or ready to dive into the water. But part of what I *like* about these pictures (over the sex-kitten pics of her) is that she is showing her atheltic skill, and it just happens to be incredibly sexy!

Are men drawn to athleticism?
Are they drawn to athletes as soft submissive sex objects?
AND, how much of published photographs is what the marketers *assume* men are drawn to?

Sometimes I think the marketers give men less credit than they deserve.

[Trekhawk]

Just to clarify ... I'm not offended. And I do appreciate both men's and women's bodies esthetically when artfully posed or drawn or painted or sculpted, even though I happen to prefer sex with men. I don't happen to be all that visually oriented in the lemonade department; for stimulation external to the relationship, I find texts and the images I imagine more tantalizing. And although I can see where this may be fodder for the imaginations of some, I don't read these images as explicitly pornographic. So my question was more about what this trend says about sports, or does for sports. And it is a trend. Lately there's been a lot of quasiporn posing by both men and women top athletes, in skiing and snowboarding and younameit. Not just biking. http://www1.vg.no/bildespesial/show/spesial.php?id=680
From my point of view, yeah, they've got great bods, they're having fun, they're getting paid, they've cleared it with serious advisors ... so no, they personally are not being exploited. But how are they affecting the kids who admire them? And are they distracting from the esthetic of the sport itself, the majesty of the effort and skill? I guess there is a marginal benefit here, from presenting buff bods as sexy, not just skinny ones. It might encourage fitness, rather than anorexia. So maybe all in all, this is a good thing.

Wow lots of Aussies in the nick on that link.

[LBTC]

This was the perfect sexy athletic fabulous woman on a bike shot - hard to beat.

Sure, it's been done before, but it's so much cooler and sexier in my mind.

H&B
~T~

[crazycanuck]

Hey,

If i had a body like hers & was #1(i think) world female mtn biker, why not do it.

It's fine.

C

[kelownagirl]

I like that picture LBTC!

I've been reading this thread with great interest, not sure exactly why I feel as I do, but I laughed out loud at Mr. Silver who I think was incredibly honest and hit the nail right on the head when he commented about the Hot Male Riders Thread. I don't like the pictures of the biker chick mainly because, I assume, they are intended to be athletic and sexy but instead they are primarily sexual. IMO the biker chick demeans herself posing like that under the guise of being an athlete. She's not portrayed as an athlete in those pictures, she's portrayed as a sex object. I suppose there's nothing wrong with being a sex object, male or female, but I take offense at one trying to come off as the other.

The pic of Lance is not sexual, it's an amazing, athletic, and perhaps to some, a sexy body. The picture that LBTC posted is another amazing, athletic (and sexy) body.

(Oh how I wish I had her tummy, or lack thereof....:rolleyes:)

[Zen]

I like that picture LBTC!


The pic of Lance is not sexual, it's an amazing, athletic, and perhaps to some, a sexy body. The picture that LBTC posted is another amazing, athletic (and sexy) body.

(Oh how I wish I had her tummy, or lack thereof....:rolleyes:)

Ditto to everything.

there are some things I didn't originally notice about the woman in the photo shoot.

Gold lame.
Patent leather knee high stillettos.
I almost feel bad for her now. I think she's gonna regret that.

[Irulan]

Now, if a man appreciates the female form, is he automatically objectifying her? I don't think so...do you remember the responses to the "HOT MALE RIDERS (http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=15158)" thread that has gotten 8,254 views in the last 3.5 months on this very forum??? Do the member of this forum objectify men by looking at that 8,254 times....the second most views on the non-cycling forum???


Thanks for pointing that out.

Anyone who says that thread (hot guys) is about art and not objectification is full of it. Is there anyone here who can HONESTLY say that that they did not look at that thread about hot guys at all because they find the concept of objectification of anyone offensive? 8,255 views? Yeah, right.

but anyway, lest some of you think all men are pigs who just want to leer at women who choose to model in ridiculous situations, here's a great thread, all real women on bikes, no draping, high heels or come hither glances... I give you Ladies who rock (http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=325036&highlight=ladies+who+rock) all women, all real riders, all mountain bikers, all posted by men who love women who ride. Totally safe for work btw

[DirtDiva]

Nothing to add that hasn't already been said other than, personally, if I were to have a picture of G-RD on my wall I'd rather have her looking mean and mud-splattered with some poor competitor in the background with both lungs hanging out of the corner of a pained-looking mouth... Proper kick-arse, not just hot. :cool:

[lph]

This subject is always pretty interesting, because it's easy to get caught in a double standard. It seems it's more socially acceptable now for women to look at nude men than the opposite, it's seen as sort of gutsy and cool and "see, we can do just like you guys have been doing for years", while men gawping at nude women are still just slobs... :rolleyes: Which is unfair, but it's how the pendulum swings.

But personally I don't like the sex kitten posing no matter who does it. It would look even weirder if someone like Lance Armstrong were doing it :eek: because it's such a super-feminine eek-look-don't-touch pose, and very passive. I guess the male equivalent is the oily Chippendale pose, which conveys more power and control, but I still don't like it much.

I guess the almost soft porn poses just feel a bit too private! Like I'm peeking into somebodys bedroom. Don't get me wrong, I like to look at hot nude bodies as much as anyone ;) but I much prefer shots that focus on more than just sexiness, like humor, intelligence, passion, athleticism... Where the model is actually expressing some kind of emotion.

This is why they call women complicated :p

(DirtDiva, you're hilarious.)

[East Hill]

This was the perfect sexy athletic fabulous woman on a bike shot - hard to beat.

Sure, it's been done before, but it's so much cooler and sexier in my mind.

H&B
~T~

Yes, this is sexy and athletic.

For what it's worth, I've never looked at hot male bikers, because the only hot male biker I'm interested in is Mr. East Hill :D .

East Hill

[KSH]

Didn't read all the responses... here's my input:

What's wrong with a lady who takes care of her body showing it off in some hot photos?

Too many people think "woman athlete = butch". And let's face it, a lot of professional athletes can be a bit manly looking.

She is showing that just because you ride a bike, run, are a professional athlete... that doesn't mean that you can't be feminim and sexy.

Healthy, fit and in shape = sexy. Being a professional athlete with muscles = sexy. What a positive body image to spread around.

[KSH]

Sorry folks, but the minute I see someone posing with high heels who purports to be an 'athlete'--no.

She is an athlete. But she's not an athlete in those photos, she's just a female body posing with a bike. Please don't tell me that she's going to ride her bike in those boots, or those shoes.

Are WE going to hang that calendar up on the wall? No, I think it's the adolescent guys for the most part, or their dads who will put up that calendar.

East Hill

I'm an athlete. I wear short skirts and heels when I go out dancing. Does that take away from my athleticism? No.

I can be sexy and be an athlete, all at the same time.

I just seems sad that the two have to separate. It's like it's frowned upon for a woman athlete to be girly and sexy. They have to be hard, be an athlete, and show how manly they are.

Would I buy the calendar and put it? No. Not my thing.