Motorpacing Advice, anybody?

[Cha Cha]

Good to be back on the board, it's been much too long!!!

Does anyone have experience motorpacing - as the one driving the motor scooter? DBF and I just started this a few weekends ago, with him on his bike and me driving the scooter. It's taking awhile to get the hang of it. Anybody have any experience and/or advice? It's really fun but I feel really clumsy with it so far.

Thanks so much!

Amy

[maillotpois]

I've done it the other way around, though now that I have a Vespa, we could switch and I could do it for DH (his motorcycle is too big for me).

It is SUPER fun to be paced by a motorcycle/scooter (if the driver is someone you trust)!!!

Having only been the "pace-ee" (as opposed to the pace-er), I think some of these things are key:

- consistent speed and slow ramp up of speed

- be conscious of the effect of any gradient on speed (faster or slower). You won't feel it on the moto

- watch debris on the road, and be sure the pace-er is aware of the fact that rocks are going to get kicked up and you just have to ride through some of this. Glasses are critical.

- this is like pacelining on steroids. Remember all your pacelining skills - pointing obstacles, etc.

- I would think you have to constantly be looing in your mirror to see where he is. (Plus scanning ahead for traffic and debris.) Develop some sort of handsignals where he can tell you "faster" "slower" etc.

- I would definitely stay off roads with ANY traffic if at all possible.

I think it will be clumsy feeling for a while, but you'll certainly get better. I want to hear how it goes and what works and doesn't work.

[li10up]

Sorry, can't offer any advice. But I saw a piece on VS. with Levi and his GF moterpacing him on a scooter. It looked really cool. The person on the bike would really have to trust the person pacing them.

[RoadRaven]

Good thread - I don't have any answers, but will be interested in what people have to say /their experiences - my partner is talking about getting a scooter so I can pace him!

Thanks for your experience of being motor paced, mallio

[Tuckervill]

What's the purpose of it? To try to go faster? Do you draft off the scooter?

It sounds like fun. My son, who will be 14 soon and therefore eligible for a motorcycle license, would like to have a Vespa-type scooter so he can get a job at the movie theater. (He's so cute.) If we had a scooter, maybe we could do some pacing, too.

Karen

[li10up]

Levi, when talking about motor pacing, said that it is the only way to get in a training ride that mimics riding in a peloton (drafting) and pedaling for hours. I guess they couldn't train as long as they need to without the aid of drafting. Nice to know they're human. :)

[RoadRaven]

Tuckervill... the purpose of motor-pacing is to increase your speed and endurance. It does work a bit like riding in a pack, however, sitting behind a scooter means the pace is relentless and you ride at the limit of what you are able.

I can be motor-paced by my partner on his bicycle, as he is very powerful and has amazing endurance. So he can do a steady ride, at a good active recovery pace or at very slight effort (about 30-38kph) and for me this is riding at my limit, depending on the terrain/conditions.

Obviously, we can't "motor-pace" him by bicycle... as he time-trials at about 43kph, he needs to be motor-paced at about 50kph. Here is where a scooter comes in. You can also do it behind a car or a van or a truck - I have drafted off a tractor doing 45kph and stayed with him for about 5mins!!!

However, drafting off cars etc is illegal - it is also dangerous for the cyclist if the driver doesn't know you are drafting, or if you are behind a van or something like that , you can't see what is happening ahead.

Ultimately, I think of motor-pacing as an excellent aspect of time trial training...

[Tuckervill]

This is my dog, Zeke, pacing me on the Katy Trail. He can run for miles and miles at about 8 mph, with occasional bursts up to 15-20!

Karen

[RoadRaven]

This is my dog, Zeke, pacing me on the Katy Trail. He can run for miles and miles at about 8 mph, with occasional bursts up to 15-20!
LOL, Tuckervill!
He doesn't offer you much of a draft though, does he!
:p

[PinkBike]

another LOL, Tuckervill

I saw on the National Geographic Channel, the world record for motorpacing is 167 mph. The first time he tried he fell bad because he got out from behind his travelling windscreen. I guess it would feel like stepping out of an airplane, just imagine!

167 m p h !

[Tuckervill]

LOL, Tuckervill!
He doesn't offer you much of a draft though, does he!
:p

His tail is like a fan, though, so he keeps me cool even at 8 mph. lol.

Karen

[motorpacer]

Hello everyone,

I stumbled across this question re motorpacing!
Personally, I love it both behind the motor and riding the motor.
It's one of the best training methods if used correctly I reckon!
It brings a lot out of you and there are 2 types of pacing in my book and I hope you agree...pure speed to get the legs turning real quick done at average speeds where you use your gears to get to the smallest you can handle giving the highest revs you can handle. Hurts the legs especially the front of the shins but you get used to it. the motor can go as slow or fast as you want 40kph (20 - 25 miles) up to whatever!
Then... speed under load where high speeds are achieved using the larger gears but speed pedalling like crazy on the bike by starting at a pace you can comfortably handle and slowly increasing to failure changing gears to suit the speed of the motor as it increases. Ouch. Speeds I have travelled behind a 4 x 4 are over 110 kph using 53/54 x 12,13,14.
Once you get used to your own speeds try taking it up to close to failure (for instance 80kph (50miles)) and then the pacer backs off down to 70kph and then back up to 80. It's like doing high speed intervals that hurt like hell! Love it! ha ha.
Equipment: on the velodromes - motorbike 100cc - 125cc is best.
On the open road (preferably little or no traffic) same motobike or a 4 x 4 for ultimate draft and high speed runs or a ute (truck in USA i think?) with a board jammed in the tailgate for draft but not too high that you can't see over the top of it for looking up the road.
The rider must have 100% complete and utter trust in the driver's judgement so the rider can rub the bumper or rear mudguard for maximum draft efficiency.
I hope this isn't too long winded but I'm kinda passionate about it!!! Google 'derny racing' for some awesome track action.

Thanks,
Motorpacer.
New Zealand.

[RoadRaven]

Hey!
Motorpacer!
You are from NZ!
There are a few of us here...
Welcome to the boards - hope you stay long enough to have a look around.

My partner has gotten up to those high speeds when he has slipped in behind an accelrating truck, but only stays there for a few minutes because he can't see what is coming, and of course doesn'r know the driver and the driver doesn't even know he is there.

Am I making an assumption by thinking you are a guy? Just your speeds and the way you use gears make me think of my partner and sons. You'll find there are a few guys here, so you're not alone if you are a guy... and if you are a gal - my apologies and kudos to you for riding the way you do :)

And lastly - are you going to the nationals this year? Your profile says "ex-racer" so I'll assume you are not competing...

[motorpacer]

Hi ya, How do?

Yes I am here in NZ and am a guy!...and a very ex racer now.
Used to do a bunch on the velodrome and the road so I know what it's like to face the breeze in a race which made the switch to pacing really easy as I knew the speeds required and how much pain to dish out to the riders! haha.
Nothing finer than seeing the 'grin' (grimace) in the rear view mirror of the motorbike of a rider just before getting spat out!
For the gears to use and stuff the male gear usage will probably always be bigger (but not always!) but if you're having a go use what you feel comfortable with - it's not necesarily about high speeds but rather the effort that's going in.
As Maillotpois says this is really good fun and it's good for you. Euro pro's go out an do say 3 - 4 hours and then pace home for 2.
Nationals in Auckland this year but no not racing thanks. I have just clocked up 5000 km's on my bike since i bought it nearly 3 years ago!! damn. the ciggarettes don't help either! damn.
Look forward to chatting to you all soon.

Motorpacer.

[Cha Cha]

Hi everybody - thanks for the good answers and feedback! I do remember seeing the piece on Vs about Levi and his SO motorpacing, and take some comfort in remembering it took her awhile to get the hang of it too!

Haven't been back out on the scooter yet - DBF has finished race season and is into the fall centuries, and has also started a major strengthening program. I imagine this will be a late fall and winter thing. (Got my ski pants and warmies ready!)

Getting really anxious about riding again on the scooter, I laid it down last time... I just need to take her out for a spin or two without the DBF to get comfortable with it. Besides - it wasn't all that long ago I was too nervous to even take one hand off the bike handlebars to take a drink of water - now I can not only do that, but this past week I actually answered my cell phone out of my back jersey pocket. (not something I"ll make a habit of though - and I told the caller, my DS, I needed to call him back!)

Cheers to everyone - and thanks again!

[OakLeaf]

The first time he tried he fell bad because he got out from behind his travelling windscreen.

167 m p h !

Yikes! I know what it feels like to just freakin' raise my hand to wave at someone from a motorcycle going a rhumpty ump scumpty mumble miles an hour... I won't try THAT again.

Waving at that speed, I mean :D

But I don't even want to THINK about what it feels to fall at that speed wearing only a bicyclist's protective clothing. He's lucky to have survived that.

[Cha Cha]

Hi everybody!

Here's an update on the motorpacing. We've been out a few more times (I think 3 or maybe 4), total miles about 500. Results have been mixed. I've gotten better and less anxious - it's coming together, but am still having some real problems yo-yoing. That is, keeping the speed consistent.

East TN is very hilly. Yes, I know to speed up going down hill and to slow up going uphill. That part is going okay. The part that is the most hard / frustrating is transitioning into flats, and figuring out what to do then. (And also what to do when he slows down to drink, eat, or check the map.) It's key to stay close together for safety reasons, but if I speed up too fast we get separated. If I slow down to give DBF time to catch up, then speed up, that doesn't work either. Hence the term yo-yo-ing. Then he gets really mad and it's frustrating and un-fun for both of us. These rides are typically 3+ hours (the last one was almost 5). The last one was six weeks ago and I have been positively DREADING the next one. I've been thankful he's been in Build mode (i.e. building miles with less emphasis on speed right now), but that's not going to last forever.

I've actually become somewhat more comfortable with the scooter, and all there is to do at one time: watch for cars, watch for gravel, keep the pace consistent, keep my eyes on the DBF in the mirrors, get through intersections quickly, stay together, not be so timid and more comfortable with speed.

The best way I can think of to describe it is that it's like trying to follow someone who's behind you. Think about it.

So - in order to reduce the dread factor, I'm trying to gather more information on motor pacing and how to do it. Am coming up with practically nothing, at least from the perspective of the pace-r. I'm hopeful that by posting again, this post will go back up to the top of the queue and maybe generate some help / interest / advice or links to some. If you want to PM, that's cool too.

Help!

Thanks so much, you all are the best! I know I have a reprieve til at least a week from Saturday, but am tired of being so anxious and worried about this.

Cha Cha

[Cha Cha]

Okay, here's the update - it's getting better!!!

The primary point is to maintain a consistent speed. With hills, wind, etc, this takes practice. But - it is possible. The keys are:

1. focus focus focus!!!!! It takes constant focus as the throttle is very sensitive and any change in terrain will change the speed. Even a mental "Hey, I'm doing it, whoo hoo!" is enough to derail your focus. Save the pats on the back for after the ride - they'll keep!

2. Maintain a sense of fun. After all, you're not the one having to pedal! Enjoy the pretty day (if you're out on the scooter, chances are it's not raining at least), and enjoy the good feeling that you're helping someone with their riding. In my case, my DBF. This is something we can do as a team - and it feels great!

3. Don't overthink. Yes, it's a lot to keep track of, and it can be daunting. But overthinking leads to paralysis. Just relax and you will get into the flow.

I'm nowhere near perfect yet - not even close - but 3/4 through the second trip last week, I found myself thinking "Hey, we get to do this again tomorrow!" (as it turned out, we didn't, but that's not the point...) From tears to "we get to" in just over two days - that's pretty kewl.

Will continue the thread as events develop!

Amy

[maillotpois]

You keep coming here looking for resources, and by the time you're done you will be able to write a book on the subject! :D

Very interesting and useful to those of us who will do one end or the other of it at some point.

[RoadRaven]

Hey there ChaCha, just want to add my thanks as well
Very interesting to read your experiences.

My partner and I haven't progressed any further with purchasing a scooter yet, but it will happen, so your writing is/will be very useful.

And i'll get a copy of that book! :p

[Cha Cha]

Thanks so much!

RoadRaven - enjoy it when the time comes! When/if you decide you're ready to get that scooter, feel free to PM me and I can give you some pointers regarding what to get if you like.

Haven't been back out as we're in the thick of 'the season' but I"m feeling a lot more comfortable about when we do.

Maillotpois - I'll let you know when the book and the movie come out! Ha!!!


Amy:)