Help choosing a Brooks

[skyhand]

Long time lurker, first time postin'. :)

So, with utter joy, my Italia LDY is scheduled to be doused with lighter fluid and set ablaze at the next full moon. She causes me more pain than sitting on nails and I'll be elated to see her go! ;)

Thus, research for a new saddle has begun! Been reading through the forums here, and wanna try a Brooks. My problem is deciding which size best suits me. Called Wallingford, and unforunately the gal who answered the phone was not of help. She merely suggested any women's model on their site, and that's all the info I was given. Here's what I told her, and maybe all y'all Brooks Pros can help:

Sit bones: 140 mm / 5.5 inches, outside edge to outside edge
Saddle is level with handlebars
Rarely in the drops
5' 7", 138 lbs.

I tend to ride anywhere from a short few miles on up to 70 miles when I'm feelin' spunky. Also I'll toss my bike on the trainer.

FWIW, my mountain bike has a stock WTB Speed V, 142 mm x 265 mm and my bum & bits don't complain. My evil Italia LDY is 160 x 265 with a cutout and my bits are on fire and inner thighs go a little numb, regardless of endless tweaks, tilts and other adjustments. Did I mention it's evil?

[sandra]

Skyhand, you may want to call back and ask for Bill. He's been very helpful.

[skyhand]

I'll do that. Didn't make sense that the woman was simply pushing *any* women's model my way!

[sandra]

Any way you go, it can't be too bad with their 6 month return policy. Good luck. I'm trying to figure out the same thing myself right now.

[KnottedYet]

Y'know, not that I'm pushing for Diane at Wallingford, but she might be right that just about any "women's" saddle would fit you. You have a nice narrow set of sitz that might let you fit on a lot of the men's saddles, too.

(for comparison, I have 170-180 mm sitz. different world, I'm tellin' ya!)

Your next decision could well be: how much money do you want to spend? Then, which of the saddles in your price range have the profile you like (pear or T shaped) and the nose you like (short, or "S" as Brooks specifies in their model numbers; or long).

In any case, you really can't go wrong with Wallingford's 6 month trial period. I've dealt with both Bill and Diane, and liked them both; so I may be biased, but I don't think Diane was being flip when she told you any of the "S" saddles would fit you.

Edit: BTW I ride on B67 saddles. Not "S" as I prefer longer noses for bike control. B6X series are *wide* in the sitz area, much wider than it sounds like you need.

[skyhand]

I'll give 'em a call to catch up with Bill on his saddle suggestion. Whatever he recommends, I'll give it a whirl. Like y'all said, a 6 month trial period means I can't really go wrong!

FWIW, I prefer saddles with longer noses for control, definitely, so that kicks out the "S" models.

Though I don't wanna go hog wild and get a $300+ saddle, I'm absolutely willing to pay more for one that makes my "bottom junk" be on good terms with me after rides. :)

Thanks for the comments on the B6# series. Yeah sounds like they'd be a bit too wide for my bones.

[Torrilin]

A plain old B-17 (assuming T shaped is good for you) is probably fine as a place to start. Since my butt and legs are liking a T shaped saddle, that's where I plan to start. There are other, more pear shaped models too.

*continues stashing pennies for when her beater saddle wears out*

[farrellcollie]

If it is for a road bike I also suggest starting with the regular B17. I started with the B17s (women's model) and found it to be too short for me. You have time to try them and send them back if they don't work if you order from wallingford - just keep track of time (unlike me who has an extra saddle because I did not pay attention to dates).

[KnottedYet]

... subliminal message...

<extra Brooks saddles could likely be sold within the Brooks Cult>

:D

[sandra]

True!

[Blueberry]

So far, I'm happy with my B17. I did have the S model, and also found it too short. I made it 50 miles on my B17 ON THE FIRST RIDE (and I had the angle wrong for the first half). No butt pain.

CA

[RoseC]

Your sit bones are narrow enough that a regular B17 should work wonderfully - and then you'd have the longer nose, too, which is important in my book!

There's also the B-17 Champion Special at Wallbike, which has pretty copper rivets and copper colored rails. I don't know if it's any different functionally, but it's purty!

[skyhand]

Yeah the B-17 Champion *is* mighty purty! Thanks for all the feedback. I like the idea of starting with the B-17 (coughChampioncough) — I've read wonderful comments about that here. If it works, wonderful!

Okay, here goes! Placing my order...

Got the B17 Champion Special Ti. Gorgeous!! I'm going to be SO ANTSY for the mail over the next week. :D

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

One disadvantage of the "S" models that no one ever talks about is that since they are shorter they have substancially shorter rails underneath. That means you can't shove your saddle as far back as you can with a men's model (non-S).

When I went from a B17S to a B68 (non-S) I was surprised and delighted at how far back I could now move my saddle- a full 2" further back! It put my center of gravity in a MUCH better place and helped me eliminate that feeling of falling forward. My weight is now balanced further back and it feels SO much better.

[RoseC]

Got the B17 Champion Special Ti. Gorgeous!! I'm going to be SO ANTSY for the mail over the next week. :D

You'n me both! I have to wait until next Wednesday for my B-68. :(

Would love to see pictures once it comes in! And be prepared for a bit of slippin' and slidin' at first...

[skyhand]

You'n me both! I have to wait until next Wednesday for my B-68. :(

Would love to see pictures once it comes in! And be prepared for a bit of slippin' and slidin' at first...

well you'll get yours a day before me! :p i'll definitely take pics. not sure it'll look all that great on my lemond, but eh, the saddle itself will be most excellent. :)

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

And be prepared for a bit of slippin' and slidin' at first...

Two tips for getting rid of the slippin' sooner:
Keep putting on that ProofHide they sell for Brooks saddles- rub it on like 2-3 times a week for 2 weeks, then once a month or so.
Do not wear brand new shorts with your brand new Brooks! The combo is Uber-Slippery! :D Use shorts you've been wearing a while.

[skyhand]

Thanks for the Slip Tips! I'll be sure to wear my oldest of shorts. Maybe I'll slap on some anti-skid tape they sell for floor rugs. ;) :D

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Thanks for the Slip Tips! I'll be sure to wear my oldest of shorts. Maybe I'll slap on some anti-skid tape they sell for floor rugs. ;) :D

Or just paint some rubber cement on your shorts! :D

[Liz]

Long time lurker, first time postin'. :)

So, with utter joy, my Italia LDY is scheduled to be doused with lighter fluid and set ablaze at the next full moon. She causes me more pain than sitting on nails and I'll be elated to see her go! ;)

Thus, research for a new saddle has begun! Been reading through the forums here, and wanna try a Brooks. My problem is deciding which size best suits me. Called Wallingford, and unforunately the gal who answered the phone was not of help. She merely suggested any women's model on their site, and that's all the info I was given.

Hi, my name is Liz and I'm the gal you spoke to on the phone. I'm sorry you found me unhelpful, as that was NEVER my intention. No pinning this one on Diane, it was my fault. I'm new to the whole Brooks line. I've been learning something new about the Brooks saddles everyday for the last month while training. Unfortunately, during my training period we didn't have very many women calling up and asking about the Brooks ladies' saddles. I'll get Bill (aka Brooks Saddle Guru) to give me some extra tips about the ladies models, so next time I'll be more prepared. Please accept my apology (I'm new ;) ).

[Blueberry]

Liz-

Welcome to TE! I always wonder how *anyone* can really give saddle advice (meaning simply that everyone's needs are so different). I spoke to Bill about mine - I had a bike with a pre-loved B17S, and ordered the B17. He actually asked me to give him feedback when I decide how it's working (how cool is that!). Your own marketing research!

The only tip I have to share (now) is if you steer with your thighs, the women's models will be way too short for you to be happy!

Oh yeah - and proofhide is cool (but caution should be exercised when opening after shipping in hot weather - duh!) :)

CA

[skyhand]

Hi Liz! No worries, I know how it is starting a new job and trying to field questions. I ended up getting some great feedback here, as you can see, and ordered the B17 Champion Ti from your site. Should arrive tomorrow (if UPS doesn't fail)! :cool:

[KnottedYet]

Yay! A Wallingford employee!! Stick around, kid, we'll teach you everything you need to know about Brooks saddles! (hee hee! I'm KIDDING!!!) Seriously though, we can be a good test-market and feedback source.

I used to live about 10 blocks from WBP, back when they were in Wallingford.

[Liz]

Hi Liz! No worries, I know how it is starting a new job and trying to field questions. I ended up getting some great feedback here, as you can see, and ordered the B17 Champion Ti from your site. Should arrive tomorrow (if UPS doesn't fail)! :cool:

The B-17 Champion Ti is a great saddle. Let me know how it works for you. We don't recieve a lot of feedback from women who use Brooks saddles designated for men.

[KnottedYet]

Liz - post up a question in the saddle thread asking "Do you ride a Men's Brooks?" and see how *many* of us do! I'd say the Men's riders are the majority. You could also ask for feedback about why they chose the men's and anything else you'd like to know. We love to talk!

(I have two "men's" B67 saddles, because I prefer a longer nose.)

And did you see this thread? http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=17382

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

The B-17 Champion Ti is a great saddle. Let me know how it works for you. We don't recieve a lot of feedback from women who use Brooks saddles designated for men.

Read this thread:
http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=12921

Here's some excerpts, from me:

I ordered a B68 today, to replace my B17S.
Though I have been comfortable on my B17S for 10 months now, I have found it to be a little on the narrow side for my sitbones. My sitbone dents are sort of half within and half on the underframe on the sides of the saddle. I know the slightly wider B68 will give me about another 1" in width at the sitbone area and is bound to be even MORE comfortable, so I am going for it.
The only difference between the B68 and the B68S is that the S has a shorter nose for women riders supposedly. Can't imagine why I would need a shorter nosed saddle, unless I was wearing a dress maybe? Interestingly, they are both equally wide in the back. The main reason I went with the non-S B68 though is because along with the longer nose, the straight section of the rails underneath will be 1/2" or so longer, giving me the added rail length I need for clamping on the Bagman saddlbag support I ordered to hold up my Little Joe and my Nelson saddlebags.
Cant wait to try out the new saddle!




OK, so I've ridden two 20 mile rides so far on my new B68. I LOVE IT!!!!!

First- I got the non-S model B68 because I wanted the longer rails underneath so I could attach a Bagman rack for my largish saddle bags:
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/saddlebag_support.asp
The B68S has shorter rails and shorter nose and not enough room on the rails to attach the Bagman.
The B68 and the B68S both have the same width in back for my sitbones, so that was not an issue. They are about an inch wider there than the B17S I had before.
The width is PERFECT- I can feel how nice my butt fits on the saddle now, instead of being sort of "perched" half on the back and side edge frame of the B17S.
Yes my sitbones are a little bit sore right now because the saddle has not yet formed to them- but I'm proof-hiding like mad and riding a lot. It's not nearly as bad as when i first got my new B17. Guess I have a "Brooks Butt" all broken in already.
The longer nose is not proving to be significant at all. The old B17S nose stuck out about 1" in front while riding, and the new nose sticks out about 1 1/2" and doesn't seem to affect anything differently.

But the very BEST thing I have discovered, even better than the width issue, is that the new long rails allow me to shove the new saddle way further back- about 1 1/2" further back than my B17S with its short nose and short rails did. It's Heaven! Now I have more leg power and I feel like I can get "behind" my pedals as I ride- it is SO much more comfortable! Now I know how men get to feel comfy all the time on their bikes automatically.
It's sort of like the difference between riding a unicyle and pedaling a paddle boat- exaggerated comparison but that's the feeling, getting way more power from my legs and feeling nicely stretched out and "behind" my crank. This back-shoved saddle made me bend in half just a bit more- but being on a Rivendell (where bars and seat are about the same height anyway) this did not feel bad at all- in fact it feels BETTER. I can just hunker down comfortably in the drops, scoot all the way back and spin up those hills now without burning out my legs.
I made better time on my ride today- faster in the high gears on the flats, faster up the hills and less tired, and just way more comfortable in general.

I absolutely LOVE this saddle!!!!! My Bagman saddlebag support fits perfectly on it too, with room to spare.

Two months later now.....I still LOVE this saddle and would NEVER go back to an S model, despite the fact that I have a very Pear shaped "womanly" figure.

[Veronica]

I like the shorter nose of the Finesse because when I stand to climb I feel the B-17 hitting my legs and I don't feel the Finesse.

V.

[mimitabby]

Hey Liz welcome to TE! I have 4 brooks saddles, none of them are "women's"

[skyhand]

the brooks baby has ARRIVED and dear gawd is this thing GORGEOUS! :D time to proofide, proofide, and ride!

side note, as a graphic designer, i really dig the exceptional looking packaging that houses these saddles...

huge kudos to Liz and Wallingford for the personalized explanatory letter and background info! very nice touch.

[sandra]

PICTURES!!!

[skyhand]

Here she is, post-proofide, so you'll notice some darker streaks where it's still not dry. Leaving it overnight like recommended, then buffing. Pics are on the larger side for detail:

http://www.skyhand.com/brooks/1.jpg Frontward angle view
http://www.skyhand.com/brooks/2.jpg Downward angle view
http://www.skyhand.com/brooks/3.jpg Packaging & saddle overview
http://www.skyhand.com/brooks/4.jpg Rear view / nameplate
http://www.skyhand.com/brooks/5.jpg Skirt / side close-up
http://www.skyhand.com/brooks/6.jpg Nose
http://www.skyhand.com/brooks/7.jpg Full profile

I'll post pics after I buff it and put it onto my MTB. It'll look pretty slick on that one with similarly colored sidewalls on the tires... If this saddle works for me, I'll get a black one for my yellow & gold Lemond Zurich. Of course. Ya can't stop at just one Brooks, now can ya?! :rolleyes:

[RoseC]

I like the shorter nose of the Finesse because when I stand to climb I feel the B-17 hitting my legs and I don't feel the Finesse.



And just to be the "everyone's different" contrarian... :D

One of the things I *do* like about my B-17 is that when I stand to climb, the nose is still (just barely) there. It feels more secure to me, and it means I can just slide back at the end of the climb, without hooking my shorts.

I'm probably the only one who likes the nose for that particular reason, I admit, but...it's still a reason!

[RoseC]

Gosh, you take nice photos, skyhand! Very pretty! That's a different color than I think I've seen - I like it! Goes beautifully with the rivets.

[sandra]

I am GREEN with envy. That is one beautiful saddle.

[skyhand]

If only those photos really do it justice! Really there's nothin' like having it in hand. Incredible craftsmanship.

Now, let's hope my bootie likes it! :D ;)

[dex]

If this saddle works for me, I'll get a black one for my yellow & gold Lemond Zurich. Of course. Ya can't stop at just one Brooks, now can ya?! :rolleyes:

I know I couldn't.

Of course, I'm about to trade a bike that currently has my B17 on it, so I'll have to decide which bike gets treated with the upgrade. Hrm...

[skyhand]

hey dex, how's your B17 do our rainy seattle winters? i bought a waterproof cover for mine, but likely will slap on an ultra high tech, plastic grocery bag or something if it's pouring.

[mimitabby]

Sky
when I'm on the bike and i'm riding i don't worry about the saddle. If i go into a restaurant when it's raining i cover the saddle in the handy plastic bag I always carry for times like that. Also for transporting the bike in the rain; i always have that plastic bag. Don't waste your money on that brooks saddle cover; water goes RIGHT THROUGH it.

Your saddle might suffer if you do really long rides in the rain. My DH has ruined two brooks saddles already; he does 200 k's and 24 hour rides...

[dex]

I do the plastic bag thing too, and it seems to work just fine. The bonus being that plastic bags are cheap (free!) and way portable. Of course, I've only had my Brooks saddles (and my bikes) since this past spring, so I haven't gone through a full rainy winter yet.

[skyhand]

cool, plastic bags are so handy — good for other things besides groceries and dog doo! :D i'll keep one handy.

i did buy the waterproof saddle cover from Wallingford (not the Brooks one) though. had i thought about it i wouldn't've bothered and just used a plastic bag! doh! :eek:

[KnottedYet]

I use a heavy plastic bag (one for each Brooks) and broccoli rubber bands. (y'know, the thick blue ones around bunches of broccoli) When I'm on the bike, I don't worry about the wet. But I proofhide the bejeebers out of the top and bottom of my Brooks saddles, so i'm hoping they're well protected while I ride. And there's also my butt protecting the topsides...

I also use the broccoli bands as "parking brakes."

They work great!

[skyhand]

broccoli bands? holy MacGyver, Batman! that's resourceful! nice, i'll remember that. they're pretty strong too.