650 c wheels- what is the tradeoff?

[wiseowl]

So it looks like I am right on the borderline between Giant XS and XXS. The XS is on 700 cc wheels, and the XXS is on 650 cc wheels. I am marginally more sized (5 feet tall and 27.5 inseam) for an XXS, it appears, but could go either way. The XXS may be a better $ deal- I can get a better rig for my buck. Any of you riding, or considered riding, the smaller wheel? What is the tradeoff?

[mimitabby]

the biggest tradeoff I know is that there are few makers, no colors, and no one else has them.

[Tri Girl]

To me- I don't see any tradeoff. I ride on 650's and I LOVE them. Plenty of people around here ride 650's (and oh the race tires I'm eyeing on eBay... don't even get me started.) :) I don't have as many color options should I choose colored tires (which is not an issue for me), and I guess I don't have as many tire options- but again-not a big deal. I've never had a problem finding tires or tubes (but if I flat out on the road and need a new tube and don't have one- then I'm SOL- but that's why I carry everything I need).:rolleyes:

For me, I like the quicker power when accelerating. Let me explain that- I can "get up and go" much quicker on my 650's on the Cervelo than I can on my 700's on the Giant. I can outsprint DH from a dead stop on my "teeny tires" (as he calls them). They have much more "giddy up" than my 700's (at least IMO). I know it all evens out in the wash, because with smaller tires you're technically putting in more pedal strokes (because the tire rotation is quicker), but I really don't think it makes a diff.

And plus, the 650's are more aesthetically pleasing to me. On a 48" frame, they look far more proportional than the 700's. I always feel like my Giant bike is just that- a tiny frame (it's an XS) with GIANT wheels.
It looks silly to me. The smaller tires don't make me look like a kid riding on my dad's bike.

[Eden]

I think it has more to do with fit than wheel size. I have both a 700c bike and a 650c bike and I find the opposite of TG to be true for me. Both are racing frames, one is Carbon one is Ti. My 700c wheel bike, for me, is MUCH quicker to accelerate and a much better climber. I am short, with more leg than torso though, so the 700c bike just fits me better.
I'd say really fit each of the bikes comprehensively and figure out which one really is the best fit for you and don't worry about the wheel size. The only big disadvantage to 650's is if you race you'll never be able to get neutral wheels. If you don't race, don't worry about it. If you do race, just be prepared to always put in your own wheels.

[smilingcat]

there are several pros with 650C wheel on a smaller frame. frame geometry doesn't have to be compromised to get the wheel to fit. biggest problem I've seen is very short head tube length. Shorter it is, the more wear and tear on the head set not to mention mor finicky in adjustment.

As tri-girl says, 650C wheel definitly has advantages over 700C wheel in accleration. You can "spool up" much faster on 650C. It takes lot more energy to spin up the 700c then it is with 650C (its physics of things and unless you are god there ain't much you can do about that). Faster spin up means faster acceleration. The whole thing revolves around a thing called angular momentum.

My old Ti bike had a 650C wheel and it was comfortable.

cons: choices of wheels are limited and less manufacturers are building 650C wheels. less choice in tires too. I wanted velomax orion?/circuit? or asscent wheels but they only came in 700C (I think velomax is part of easton now). I just checked yes velomax is now part of easton hmmm they now have 650C asscent/orion/circuit.

If you race see eden's comment. also at UCI sanctioned race, 650C wheels are not allowed for TT's (atleast that is what I remember).

Go with what is comfortable. They are still enough choices for 650C wheels.
And I think Tri people still prefer the 650C wheels so it wont be discontinued any time soon.

smilingcat

[Eden]

If you race see eden's comment. also at UCI sanctioned race, 650C wheels are not allowed for TT's (atleast that is what I remember).
As long as *both* wheels are 650 it's OK (at least it is for USACycling - better be cause my TT bike has 650's ;) - and I don't think the rules vary too much from UCI). You can't have an odd wheeled bike - think getting ultra aero, by having a smaller wheel on the front than on the back.

[wiseowl]

I should specify that I do not race, nor do I ever plan to...but your comments are still very helpful and I am sure there are others in my boat who do race. Glad to hear the "extra" pedalling doesn't seem to hurt much- my DH is a stronger biker than me so we are always trying to find ways to eqalize us for rides together, and I am concerned the 650s would be one more notch against me. Out of curiosity, how tall are those of you on 650cc?

[Aggie_Ama]

My bike I got in December has 700's and the only plus I see is if I were to have a flat more riders would have a tube. My frame (like the Specialized Ruby) was designed to eliminate toe overlap and use the 700's but most frames are not designed this way.

My old 650's were just fine. My new bike is stiffer and therefore climbs better and accelerates faster but overall it is just a better designed bike. I cannot even compare it to my Steel bike that had 650's because everything about them is different.

As TriGirl said, 650's look much better on a small frame. My little 47 cm frame looked pretty darn goofy with 700's and it took me a while to not think that!

Equalize your rides by getting a frame that fits and working on your weaknesses. My DH is a speedy guy, so I am working on hills to keep him from dropping me. I get a better workout but he loves riding together.

And I just saw you can get some nice Mavics (Kysrium Elites) for cheap in 650, darn it those are better than mine!! BTW I am 5'2" and many frames for me have 650's.

[Tri Girl]

I'm barely 5'3" if that helps.

[amymisk]

I'm almost 5'1" and ride a bike with 700s. I agree the large wheels can look a bit goofy on such a small frame, but I got over that quickly. My old bike had 650s but I can't compare them.

I agree with most, go with what fits well, who cares if it has 650 or 700.

[JmcG]

I ride both 650 and 700c wheels, and am 5'1". My Cervelo P3 (size 48) has 650s, my Specialized Ruby and Dolce (size 44) have 700s. I agree with others that it's an easy acceleration on the 650s, more so than on the 700s, but I also wonder if that's a function of gearing as well. I think you won't be disappointed going either way. Have you tried them both out? Also, like others have mentioned, for the 650s you're more limited in wheels and tires, and make sure you have spare tubes with you b/c it's more than likely that others will be riding 700s.

Sorry I don't have better advice. Go with your gut feeling - you won't be disappointed in the 650s if that size bike fits you better. Good luck!

[amymisk]

I just have to hijack for a brief moment:

I have fallen in love with Cervelo bikes and am soooo jealous of those who have them!!! Beautiful bikes, no local dealer that I can find.

[DebW]

My new custom Peter Mooney bike has 650 wheels and 26" wheels. I haven't noticed a difference in speed or acceleration relative to my older bike with 700s. I'm 5' 7" with a 32" inseam so could easily ride 700s except that my ideal top tube length and size 9 feet would have produced toe clip overlap with an ideal front end geometry. The handling of this bike came out so perfect that I wouldn't trade it for wider tire availability.

If you want versatility in tire width, then having both 650s (for 650x23 racing tires) and 26" (for 1.3" or wider touring/mtb tires) on the same frame is a good way to go. Switching wheels requires moving the brake pads up or down a couple millimeters. I was disappointed in the few options for 650 rims, since I built up my own on 28 hole hubs.

[Torrilin]

For most people, wheels are wheels, and as long as they're not flat, they do fine. The point where wheels matter is when you're stressing them. So for a race, bigger and skinnier can matter. For a bike tour or a heavier rider, you'd worry more about enough spokes. For ordinary riding, you can have fun on a bike with 16" wheels (like folding bikes) or on bikes with 29" wheels, and everything in between. So as long as the bike fits well, I wouldn't worry.

(I'm having fun with 26" wheels. No toe overlap, despite having big feet and short legs)

[mimitabby]

hmmm, there are a lot of us with big feet and short legs.

[Eden]

odd one out here - for a short person I have long legs and very small feet....
I'm 5' even, about a 28 1/2 or 29" bike inseam, size 4.5/5.5 feet depending on the brand....
I prefer my 700c wheel bike, and have no toe overlap on any of my bikes.

[piaadoll]

I'm five foot nothing with short legs and i've tried several bikes that I can get my hands on (Le mond, Trek, Felt, Specialized, Bianchi, Giant, Novarra.....).

This bike shopping has been so frustrating and has taken several months. Finding a bike store that has a small bike in stock to try was far and few between. I've had bike stores tell me straight out they will not order a bike unless I'm sure I want to buy it. Hello?!? How can I decide to buy a bike I haven't tried. Being short totally has it's disadvantages...Oh wells.

I am currently riding a borrowed Trek 1000 47cm and I feel a little stretched out, not to mention there is zero stand over clearance. But, I've gotten so used to it. At first I was a bit hesitant about the tiny 650c wheels on the 43cm Treks and Felt FW3 that I tried. I thought that perhaps I can get away with the 47cm bike - since some stores tried to sell me on them. I even considered the 44cm Specialize Dolce Comp (as I'm looking for a bike with at least a full 105), all cuz it had 700c wheels, but I just find it a little too pricey for the components. Wish I had snagged Specialized Dolce Elite back on 05 or 06 when the components were 105/ultegra.

Anyways, enough of that. I just ordered my bike my last Sunday. After a week of debate, I've come to terms with the 650c wheels and decided to buy a 2007 43cm Trek 1600 WSD with 650c wheels. I felt the bike just fit me much better and I got it on sale for $1080. :D Can't wait to get it!

[smilingcat]

My previous bikes

panasonic DX5000? DX6000? (no tunes though) whatever model it was (too long ago) had 700C wheels on 51cm frame. I liked it. Handled well, stable. Used it on death rides, tour of eastern sierra's ...

Litespeed Ti bike with 650C wheels. I loved it (too bad I sold it when I decided to quit riding.) I miss it. It accelerated really fast. Handled well didn't flex. Didn't have problems with running out of gears 39/53 and 12/21? cluster (counting the cog size and its not adding up right It was a freewheel not cassett). On really steep climbs, I swapped out to 12/28? or so. Great bike and wheels. CXP-33 with ultegra hubs. used it on redland classic, and fun rides climb the Kaiser, breathless in agony, sierra classic... great fun bike. Loved the 650C wheels too.

Current bike Orbea Dama Race with 700C wheels. bit more squirrly than my litespeed. Not crazy about (actually I hate) the low end campy groupo (Centaur) on it. Don't waste your time on Centaur. Use Chorus or Ultegra.
Otherwise great bike. Again doesn't flex much.

I'm just shy of 5' 4", 29" inseam, 6-1/2 or 7 shoes.

smilingcat