New at Tri Training...Discouraged about bike :(

[teawoman]

Hi all. This seems like a wonderfully friendly forum. I'm kind of afraid to post on any of the other tri-related sites I've seen.

A couple of years ago, I tried a sprint tri. At the time, I was a good 60 lbs overweight. Long story short, the bike ***killed me***...but I loved the whole experience....except that my time was 2:38 and I was last. I felt so stupid for underestimating my fitness and cried and cried. I had been swimming and running for awhile, so those times were back of the pack, but not last to the extent that the bike was--so that was ok. Everyone was great, and I said I'd get the courage to do it again sometime.

I've registered for the same tri this year. I am about 20 pounds lighter (still riding a hybrid bike tho). I am training a bit smarter in that I go out for shorter hilly rides and repeat the hills and do 12 milers. I joined a bike club that (on their slow rides) avgs about 17 miles at about 12 or 13 miles per hour with one or two big hills (river valley here--ow!). I haven't been doing this for that long, tho, so it may just be experience. I am doing about 3 sessions on the bike a week.

I don't know why I can't pedal more than 13 miles an hour on the flats (never mind the hills!!). I have tried keeping my cadence at about 85, but it requires a very low gear and I bounce when I get up to 90.

My bet is that it is a muscular strength thing (and a weight thing) more than a cardio thing. My heart rate when I do this stuff with the hills is about 10 beats higher on avg than it is when I am running, but getting better.

So are there good weight routines for triathlete cyclists out there or any other tips? I'm hoping for about 1:15 this time on the bike and 2:15 total time....not great, but an improvement. This is really for the future...I know it's not possible to have much more improvement as things stand now--the tri is in three weeks.

Sorry this is a bit of a downer, but I am in a discouraged stage. I've got all the plans in the world for next year!--including a road bike! :)

[Grog]

Hang in there and don't get discouraged!

Racing a hybrid bike is not easy, and depending on the quality of the bike it might actually be quite heroic to pull 13 mph on it! One of my bikes (Trek 7.1fx) is a really good hybrid and runs very smoothly, but I have another one which is heavy and clunky, made of much lesser quality parts, and it definitely won't go very fast unless it's down a hill!! (And even then, the wheels aren't so good so there's a speed limit too.)

Others will come up with other suggestions, but I think time in the saddle is at this point a lot more important than weight training. You might want to increase the duration of your rides, and try different training programs including intervals and hill reps (just like you're already doing). Doing drills of high-cadence spinning, you'll get better at moving your legs faster (it's normal to bounce on the seat for now but you have to keep practicing and you'll get better). Doing somewhat longer distances will help even if your race is short. It will also help you loose some weight, if such is your desire (especially if you adapt your nutrition to your training).

And keep coming to TE!

Cheers

[mimitabby]

If you want to do triathlons, why don't you get a lighter racier bike?
You certainly deserve it. and with all the training you've been doing, you're
just going to FLY when you get one.

[VeloVT]

Hello,
I don't think your post is a downer at all. I think you should be really proud of yourself for racing the first time, and for committing to do it again. You've lost 20 lbs, and you're training consistently and getting fitter. Good for you! I've been talking about competing in various races (running, tri's, etc) for over a year and still haven't had the courage/motivation to do it, even though I'm in pretty good shape -- so I find your story inspiring.

I find it interesting that you say your heart rate is higher on the bike than when you are running. This is pretty unusual actually, and I find that I can be in good biking shape, from a cardiovascular perspective, and still be in relatively crappy running shape (that is, I can sustain a moderately fast pace for me on the bike with ease, but I'm huffing and puffing to sustain what is a "moderately fast" running pace for me). Others may have more insights, but I have two immediate questions.

First, how heavy is your bike? If it's quite heavy, this may continue to be a limiting factor for you.

Second, I wonder if you are using gears that are too big? While big gears can give you speed in the right situations once you have the strength to push them, they also make you work MUCH harder. It might be worthwhile to work on your ability to maintain a smooth pedal stroke at high cadence. I started riding a little over a year ago and I used to bounce starting at around 98. Now I can ride without bouncing up to about 120. Not that I would ever have occaision to maintain 120 for any length of time :), but at the end of long rides, if my legs are tired and I've still got some rolling hills to cover before I get home, it can make it much easier to pedal in gears easy enough to keep my cadence around 100 (it's usually more like 85-90). I can usually still keep up a reasonable speed even in these low gears.

Good luck. I'll bet you'll get lots of great suggestions in this thread.

Edit: I was so slow in writing this that it's now kind of redundant :). Oh well. Good luck anyway!

[leulamax]

I think a road bike would make a big difference. I started out with a hybird, and just could NOT keep up with our training group (knowing I was about the same level as a couple of people). I switched to a road bike and WOW what a difference. So much more of my power went "forward" rather that up and down. It made a HUUUUUGE difference for my boyfriend who also trains with us. He was constantly at the back of the pack doing 3 times the work with only a 10th of the profit. Once he got a road bike, no one could catch him.
Don't get discouraged. I am also about 50 lbs overweight, but I was just happy as anything to finish. Now, I can train to improve. Keep on peddling!!!:D

[KSH]

I think a road bike would make a big difference. I started out with a hybird, and just could NOT keep up with our training group (knowing I was about the same level as a couple of people). I switched to a road bike and WOW what a difference. So much more of my power went "forward" rather that up and down. It made a HUUUUUGE difference for my boyfriend who also trains with us. He was constantly at the back of the pack doing 3 times the work with only a 10th of the profit. Once he got a road bike, no one could catch him.
Don't get discouraged. I am also about 50 lbs overweight, but I was just happy as anything to finish. Now, I can train to improve. Keep on peddling!!!:D

She makes a REALLY good point!

Sure, the machine doesn't make the engine... but if the machine (the bike) isn't meant to go FAST then the engine (you) will not be able to make it.

With that said Teawoman... are you riding with other hybrid bike riders on your group ride? Or people on road bikes? There is a difference.

You may not want to hear this... but a new bike... a roadie... might be in order. :)

[teawoman]

Thanks so much for all the kind replies!

I honestly have never ridden a road bike, so I do not know what the difference even feels like--I'm not resistant to getting one, except that I work on contract and have to be careful in the summers. I can probably swing it in the fall. I am 5 4 and the bike I have now is smallish--43 cm, so I might benefit from wsd, and that is more money. Right now my bike is a Giant Cypress ST...it has a steel frame--looked for weight specs, but couldn't find any. I do have a bit of trouble lifting it to my car rack. :D I got the hybrid about 3-4 years ago when a road bike was not in the budget at all. I wish I'd thought of getting a used road bike (which I guess I could still do), but there you go...live and learn. I sorta entered that first tri on impulse, but I think it was a good one :).

On gears: I don't know the terminology, but on a 21 speed I am riding most in 1 on the left and on the right I have it on 4-5 on flats and 1-2 for the hills.

On HR: The high average is when I'm doing hills...it's about the same as for running when the ride is relatively flat

In the club, everybody is on road bikes too. :eek:

Anyway, thanks again--I will keep plugging. Depending on how I do at this tri, I might try one more this summer and then start shopping around for a road bike. Yay!

[alpinerabbit]

Yep, you could treat yourself to a road bike, and also, you might want to increase the distance of your training rides, such that in a while, 12 miles in a sprint tri will look like a piece of cake.

It will also greatly improve your base endurance. Try getting to 20, 30 miles perhaps? You can do it, ride 2-3 hours, if you can do a tri over 2 hours. No problem if you are slower at first. Base endurance means low heart rate.

About gearing - you have a triple front ring. For high cadence work, you should not always be in the biggest ring, even on fairly flat terrain. Then go to the smallest ring in front up hills. You should feel like you are not pushing down on the pedals too hard (that's called mashing).

Also, if you have the courage, clipless pedals allow you to use the rest of your legs to spin more effectively.

[melissam]

This is probably a stupid question, but....

Teawoman, what kind of pedals are you using? If you're not using some sort of clipless pedal system or toe clips, this would explain why you're having trouble getting your cadence up. Heck, a cadence of 85 without the benefit of toe clips or clipless pedals would be amazing!

You've received some great advice on this thread. Riding a bike is pretty much like anything else you do -- the more you do it, the easier it becomes. So keep on pedaling!

-- Melissa

PS 13mph on the flats is nothing to scoff at, especially on a hybrid.

[VeloVT]

I am 5 4 and the bike I have now is smallish--43 cm, so I might benefit from wsd, and that is more money.

I don't know ANYTHING about how hybrids are sized, but that sounds small -- my gut feeling is that you'd take a bigger size in a road bike, and that at 5'4", you'd have a choice between WSD or non-WSD. I'm 5'6", and do OK with standard (non-wsd) bikes. I have a 54 cm bike that's a hair too large (but still quite rideable) and a 52 that's perfect (but less aero :D !), just for reference (they have pretty different geometry though, so it's not as straightforward as the one simply being "a size smaller" than the other). Of course you'll just have to try as many bikes as possible to see what fits you best. Tough medicine :) .



On gears: I don't know the terminology, but on a 21 speed I am riding most in 1 on the left and on the right I have it on 4-5 on flats and 1-2 for the hills.



When you say "1", do you mean the largest or the smallest chainring?

[teawoman]

Also, if you have the courage, clipless pedals allow you to use the rest of your legs to spin more effectively.

Oooo...that does scare me. These are normal spiky pedals. :D I am as yet terribly klutzy and anything clippy would make it worse! :D

And 85 is by no means my average cadence...I can do that for a few blocks if the roads are flat and smooth.


.

When you say "1", do you mean the largest or the smallest chainring?

1 is the smallest. On the back, it seems to be the reverse, i.e., 1 is the biggest and 7 the smallest. So I guess I am in pretty low gear already. :o

And on sizing: I have short legs, so my seat has to be low. When I ride this bike for over 1.5 hours, I find the reach to the handlebars tiring to my shoulders.

You guys are great! Thanks so much!

[Tri Girl]

keep at it, teawoman! The right bike will make ALL the difference!!!! I've never ridden a hybrid, but rode my mtn bike when I first started (I'm sure they are similar in weight and speed). My mtn bike had regular pedals. I would make it around our lake (9.5 miles) in an hour and 10 min. When I bought a road bike (and clipless pedals) that dropped to 43 min. And now on my tri bike I can do that same distance in about 34 minutes. What a difference a bike makes!!!
If you can, I would encourage you to look at a road bike- and clipless pedals aren't as scary as they may seem. It's amazing the difference you get when clipped in. I'm about as clumsy as they come, but I practiced unclipping a lot before I hit the road, and now I'm as smooth and steady as ever. You'll fall (everybody does), but then you get cool scars and scratches to show off. :p

My Giant OCR1 is a size XS (I'm barely 5'3" with short stumpy legs) and it fits amazingly well. I'm selling her for very cheap if you're interested (not that I'm trying to pawn her off on you- just throwing it out there).
Check out other road bikes for sure. It's truly amazing how many choices there are out there. So many different fits and so many different kinds of bikes to choose from.

Let us know how you're doing!!!!

[Starfish]

There really isn't anything I can add to the great advice everyone here has already given, including about going clipless.

I just want to add my encouragement that I think when you get set up with clipless pedals, even on this bike, and then a new bike...and then if you do the types of workouts everyone here has recommended...well, I think you are going to improve very rapidly and feel terrific.

If you are riding a heavy steel hybrid, without clipless pedals (and it sounds like without even cages), and you are doing some hilly rides at 12-13mph...I think you are doing great.

Keep at it!! I admire you for doing Tri's...I have not yet had the courage!

[Torrilin]

A steel hybrid can easily break 40 lbs. It can also be a lot less... depends on how it was built. An easy way to check is to weigh yourself, then weigh yourself holding the bike. Then you have a baseline for judging how you're doing on the bike.

I don't use toe-clips or clipless pedals. I also don't race. If you intend to race, it's good to have some way of keeping foot and pedal together. Safer that way. You can do a number on yourself if your feet slip off the pedals at speed. Toe clips and clipless pedals can also really improve your cycling form, thus making it easier to ride hard. I'll eventually add toe-clips to my bike, but I'm not in a rush. The groceries aren't going anywhere, and I have more important upgrades to spend the gas money on. You... are in a very different position.

Have you tried playing around with the gears to see if any of the second and third chainrings (the ones up front) have gears that are similar in feel to the ones you've been using on the first chainring? It's pretty common for bikes to have several similar gears (on mine, 3/3, 2/5 and 1/8 are all about the same). It *may* be that if 1/7 or 1/8 are your "up to speed" gears, that you can move onto the second chainring and have more speed available. Since you're using regular pedals, if your cadence gets too high, you risk losing your footing. If the second chainring has some additional speeds that work for you and don't hurt, you can go faster and maintain a safe cadence.

Oh, and don't try to combine longer rides with higher gears all at once. Play with the higher gears on really short rides. Long rides are good too, but for those you should stick with familiar gears. As you develop more power and endurance, you can add high gear on long rides. But jumping in with both feet is a good way to get sore.

[Wahine]

My Giant OCR1 is a size XS (I'm barely 5'3" with short stumpy legs) and it fits amazingly well. I'm selling her for very cheap if you're interested (not that I'm trying to pawn her off on you- just throwing it out there).
Even if you don't want her- check out other road bikes for sure. It's truly amazing how many choices there are out there. So many different fits and so many different kinds of bikes to choose from.



I just want to emphasize what others have already said, you really deserve a road bike. It will make life much easier. The bike that TriGirl is talking about is a very good bike and any time you can get something used, especially when you're just starting out, the better it is.

You do want to increase your ability to hold a higher cadence, candence drills work very well for this, I think Grog already brought this up. I do a drill where I increase my cadence by 5 rpm every minute, until I start bouncing, then I back off by 10 and hold that as long as I can. Recover for 2 minutes and repeat. This is obviously best done on a flat course.

I would also strongly encourage clipless pedal. But you'll know when you're ready for that.

Alpine mentioned longer rides, this is also a very good idea. Cut the intensity back and go longer. The newer tribies I "coach" go on rides up to 50% longer than the target distance about 2 to 3 weeks before the race (depending on how much recovery they will need).

You're doing really well and training consistently. Be proud of yourself.

[JenLeath]

There are some other things you can do before investing in a road bike. They are minor, but overall it might make a little difference. Get your bike fit, even a hybrid, if your shoulders are fatiguing in an upright position, you may need some help fitting the bike to you. Any local bike shop can do this. As others have said, clipless pedals will give you more power. There are some that are very easy to clip in and out of on the lower end of the price scale. Ask the guys at your LBS what you can do to your bike to make it lighter. If you haven't already, get some slicker tires put on. You are doing awesome, good luck on your tri.

Jen L

[teawoman]

A steel hybrid can easily break 40 lbs. It can also be a lot less... depends on how it was built. An easy way to check is to weigh yourself, then weigh yourself holding the bike. Then you have a baseline for judging how you're doing on the bike.



Oy. I tried this and it weighs close to 40 pounds. I'm 174, scale at 213 or so.

Thanks again for the encouragement!!! I'm looking at some road bikes.

[Skeezix]

Make sure to post when you decide on a bike, I'm going to start looking at road bikes but it's all making my head spin and my wallet hurt.

[KSH]

Oy. I tried this and it weighs close to 40 pounds. I'm 174, scale at 213 or so.

Thanks again for the encouragement!!! I'm looking at some road bikes.


WOW! 40 pounds! Then the average you are keeping on the bike is really impressive lady!

My roadie weighs around 19 and my tri bike weighs around 21. I can't imagine having to pedal a 40 pound bike around.

A new bike is in order, if you want to get faster and more serious on the bike. Good luck!