Jett 130 and Zero and sit bone LUMP

[maillotpois]

I'm trying the Jett 130. Today was my first ride. I think it's going to be good, but I have a really strange problem that I fear no saddle will solve.

I loved my Terry Zero Y until this year, when somehow it gave me a really bad "issue" in my left sit bone, starting after my 400k. It's almost like there's a big lump right on the bone. I can feel it with my hand. Starting this year, I had felt that the Zero might be a bit wide and it was almost like it was cutting off circulation down my left leg. Mind you I did a 600k and what, 6 double centuries on that saddle over the last couple of years and never had a problem til this year. (Maybe my pelvis readjusted itself in the 6 months I was off the bike last year?)

So on a MTB trip in Oregon I bought a Specialized Alias 130 out of desperation (new bike and the stock saddle didn't have a cutout which I now know is essential for me). I loved it! The Alias is a great saddle. And when I saw they made the women's (Jett) in a 130 I decided to give it a try. I notice the Alias/Jett don't "flare out" at the side the way the Zero does. Even the Zero is a fairly narrow saddle, it is effectively wider because of the flare at the end/sides.

But has anyone had a LUMP on your sit bones?? Is it possible to get a bone spur on your butt??? Could it be some sort of inflammation where the hamstring attaches to the bone there?

:confused:

I will go to my doctor (who already thinks I am a freak), but before I did, I wanted to throw those questions out there.

[Eden]

A hard lump? I've gotten a swelling on my butt before - it was kind of big to call it a lump - like the size of 1/2 an orange..... I could feel it and see it easily. I think when it happened to me it was from my saddle being a little tweaked to one side and/or a very crowned road. It happened to my husband once too on a day we did a very, very windy ride - his was on both sides and I think it was from rocking back and forth battling the wind all day.

[maillotpois]

Well, it is definitely smaller than that - and it is very deep in there, so you can't see it.

How long did it last?

[Eden]

For both of us the swelling went away after a few days. Sure was funny to look at. I'd call it more of a soft lump though - squishy like a sprained ankle.

[Starfish]

Sorry, Sarah, no experience with anything like that. All I know is that I have always had a very sensitive tush...my hip joints click and grind, and my massage therapist is constantly working on all my insertion points and stuff.

I know I've had hard lumps here and there when a lymph node has been aggravated and clogged up, and with good massage and so forth it goes away.

No help here, sorry. Sounds awful!

[maillotpois]

Thanks, guys.

What was really weird today was I saw down hard at the wrong angle on that lump once, and got a shooting pain in my butt/leg just as though I had hit my funny bone! So now I have a funny bone in my butt!!! :eek:

[Grog]

Is that like a bunion... on your sit bone?

[Dianyla]

What was really weird today was I saw down hard at the wrong angle on that lump once, and got a shooting pain in my butt/leg just as though I had hit my funny bone! So now I have a funny bone in my butt!!! :eek:
Could be muscular, could be a swollen lymph node, could be a benign fatty tumor (lipoma)... lots of stuff. Whatever the lump is, it sounds like it's aggravating your sciatic nerve (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sciatic_nerve). Sciatica caused by impingement on the nerve from muscular tightness is known as piriformis syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piriformis_syndrome). Some things for you to look into... :)

[maillotpois]

Hmm. Interesting - thanks!

[Pedal Wench]

No solution for the lump, but a thought on your old saddle (although I loved my Jetts!) Saddles do wear out. The cushioning shifts and the shell gets brittle. So, you might want to go back to your original favorite.

[KnottedYet]

Well, I've "seen" (felt, actually) a lump at the insertion (aka sit bone) of the hamstring on a couple patients. Both were athletes, one was an endurance runner.

They were considered high hamstring strains, most likely due to an imbalance of effort between the medial and lateral hamstrings.

Both these patients were women (seems to be more a girl thing) and both were solved by treating the FEET and working on general leg stabilization exercises. Overpronation caused the hammies to fire up funny in an attempt to stabilize the leg/pelvis.

If you already wear orthotics, you might want to call your orthotist and see if your orthotics need to be adjusted.

Otherwise, ask your doc what she/he thinks. Maybe a medial wedge on the underside of your regular insoles would help. The doc would be able determine that.

[maillotpois]

Wow, Knot. Thanks!

I do pronate, and used to have orthotics when I ran (before I wised up). Maybe I should try to find them and put them in my cycling shoes....

Could that impinge the sciatic nerve as Dianayla suggested, leading to that "funny bone" business I felt?

[KnottedYet]

If the hammies are strained, they could be kicking off all kinds of compensatory tightness and other exciting goodies. (including referred pain)

A few piriformis stretches could be good, as could some gentle hamstring stretches.

Since a cyclist weightbears on the forefoot, and most orthotics are designed for hindfoot correction first, your running orthotics might not be adequate. But they certainly couldn't hurt to try in the bike shoes! If they don't seem to help with the pain (the lump will take a while) ask your orthotist to check you for a forefoot medial wedge for biking. (make sure to check BOTH feet to see if they need medial wedges!)

[SadieKate]

From Andy Pruitt: Pain and swelling directly on the sitbones are indicative of ischial bursitis (an inflamation of a bursal sac located in the gluteal region).

I'll keep reading . . . back in a bit.

More: And ischial bursitis can be caused by a hard saddle, a poor quality chamois, or riding too many miles too soon.

Back to reading . . . .

For ischial bursitis, apply ice, take NSAIDs, and rest off the ike. Cortisone may provide quick relief. Too keep it from recurring, wear 2 pairs of shorts for more padding. Youmay want to cut a roudn hole in the liner of the inner pair to reduce pressue on the area.

Choosing a new saddle with different shape and different amounts of padding may also solve the problem.

Back to reading . . . . :)

[maillotpois]

Okay - Thanks, Knot, I may PM you for more info.

One thing that may or may not be relevant: since I started riding again this year after my "break", I have been standing a LOT more on the bike. I'm not sure if it's compensating for having lost muscle strength while being off the bike or what, but I've gotten sort of accustomed to it and am out of the saddle a lot more, especially for climbing. So maybe that's aggravated or highlighted some sort of weakness/imbalance.

[maillotpois]

From Andy Pruitt: Pain and swelling directly on the sitbones are indicative of ischial bursitis (an inflamation of a bursal sac located in the gluteal region).



So you're saying my butt sac is inflamed?? :eek:




More: And ischial bursitis can be caused by a ......riding too many miles too soon.


Hmm. :rolleyes:


PS - See how I fixed your typo...??

[SadieKate]

Onto Arnie Baker -- pain in this area progress to either local bursitis or ulceration.

Prevention - do not suddenly and drastically increase your weekly mileage [edit by sk - yeah, right]

Use bandaids or moleskin to pad around the sore to take off pressure.
2nd pair of shorts.
Ooh-ooh! A padded saddle cover!:p
Different saddle - enough padding to support and wide enough to spread the support over as wide an areas as possible.

[KnottedYet]

Yup. Bursae protect the tendons/muscles from rubbing on boney bits. Your body can even toss a new bursa into an area that doesn't normally have one, if there's enough irritation there.

If you get a jolly case of bursitis, it means something is causing a soft tissue to rub harder against a bone than it normally would. Generally that's a muscle effort imbalance, but it could also be a structural problem. (did you break any bones lately? Have any back/pelvic problems?)

If your saddle fits you well, and wasn't causing you troubles last year, I would tend to believe the saddle isn't to blame this year.

Being off the bike for 6 months (weakening compensatory strategies) is more the culprit in my mind. Issues your body had found ways to handle come back without the little tricks your body developed to cope with them. So the previously "little" issues snowball a bit up and down the kinetic chain. (the idea that you are standing MORE now than previously really makes me think about your feet being the trigger rather than the saddle)

Ask your doc. If your doc doesn't know, ask if they can refer you to a sports med doc.

[maillotpois]

My medical team is fantastic! Thanks guys!!

Sounds like ultimately an imbalance/weakness issue (which never manifest on the bike before) brought up by too much too soon after my 6 month hiatus. Well, shoot. My lungs are really good this year!! :rolleyes:

Maybe I will back off the mileage a bit. Work on the stretching. Try my orthotics. See if I can get to a sports medical PT or something. Drink good wine. (Wait - that's not one of the suggestions??)

[SadieKate]

My typo? Trying to hide your sudden and drastic increase in mileage?

[KnottedYet]

Good wine, good beer, good chocolate...

It's all good! :D
And so good for you! ;) :p

[SadieKate]

Can we figure out how to qualify wine as an NSAID?

[maillotpois]

Prevention - do not suddenly and drastically increase your weekly mileage [edit by sk - yeah, right]

Actually, if you look at my journal, I was better than you'd expect. Zero miles July - Dec and 317 miles in Jan and 172 in Feb. Pretty darned restrained, all things considered.

It may have been the 580 miles in March and the 672 miles in April.... :rolleyes:

[maillotpois]

Good wine, good beer, good chocolate...

It's all good! :D
And so good for you! ;) :p


I always knew you were super smart! :D



My typo?

Yes. "Anyd Pruitt".

:p

[SadieKate]

Oh, I must have re-named him while you weren't looking.

A little googling has determined that you probably have Weaver Bottom.:p

Inflammation commonly arises as a result of trauma or prolonged sitting on a hard surface (weaver bottom).

Pain may radiate down the back of the thigh and mimic sciatic nerve inflammation; however, it can be reproduced by pressure over the ischial tuberosity.

http://www.arthritis-treatment-and-relief.com/ischial-tuberosity-bursitis-treatment.html

Can I order a rug for the guest bath?

[maillotpois]

(the idea that you are standing MORE now than previously really makes me think about your feet being the trigger rather than the saddle).


I have had issues with "hot foot" this year where I never had them before. I believe it was due to moving my cleats forward (after a bike fit this fall) and I have since moved them back. It's better after I moved them back. But that makes me think you are onto something with the feet.

[SadieKate]

Uh oh. Read down farther in that link about Ischial Tuberosity Syndrome.

Ischial bursitis needs to be differentiated from ischial tuberosity syndrome. The ischial tuberosity is a swollen part or broadening of the bone in the frontal portion of the ischium, the lowest of the three major bones that make up each half of the pelvis. As the point of fusion of the ischium and the pubis, it is attached to various muscles and supports the weight of the body when one is sitting. Ischial tuberosity pain may be experienced by a wide range of athletes, including soccer players, cyclists, baseball players, figure skaters, cheerleaders and any type of jumpers or runners. It is often misdiagnosed as ischial bursitis, an extremely painful condition.

The ischial tuberosity is the point of origin of the adductor and hamstring muscles of the thigh, as well as the sacrotuberus ligaments. The forceful pull of these muscles, such as can happen during a variety of sports, as a result of a trauma such as a fall or other type of injury, or through the overuse of the hamstrings, as is common among runners and soccer players, results in a separation or detachment, also called an avulsion, of an open ischial apophysis.

[KnottedYet]

OOOOH! "Weaver Bottom" sounds so much more fun than "high hamstring strain!"

But how do you tell one from the other in a cyclist? Sitting on an inflamed hammie insertion (ischial tuberosity) would give you Weaver Bottom, too.

Hey, maybe you have BOTH!

A "high Weaver bottom strain."

I think the cure is good wine: "bottoms" up!

Edit: "hot foot" is often a product of pronation. (nerves get compressed in an over pronated foot) The metatarsal arch collapses when you pronate. So now I'm thinking a met pad and a medial forefoot wedge. And some exercises. And some wine...

[maillotpois]

Now I have butt tubers???

Okay, that's one to take to the doc. She's already written me off as some sort of medical anomaly.

ETA: I forgot to mention the bruising..... In the "crease" after long rides.

[maillotpois]

Edit: "hot foot" is often a product of pronation. (nerves get compressed in an over pronated foot) The metatarsal arch collapses when you pronate. So now I'm thinking a met pad and a medial forefoot wedge. And some exercises. And some wine...

Whew! I'd better fill up. I'm running low.

:D

[KnottedYet]

Uh oh. Read down farther in that link about Ischial Tuberosity Syndrome.


If you had an avulsion you'd be having some really major issues. Contact your doc. Avulsions show up on xrays pretty well. (it's a hunk of bone that gets yanked out of your skeleton and retracts along with the detached muscle fibers. shows up well on films.)

Drink some wine, call the doc. give 'em a list of your worst and best case scenarios and a bottle of wine. Guaranteed excellent medical treatment. And keep us posted. I wanna know! :D

[KnottedYet]

Bruising?!?!

Well, that changes everything.

Now I blame a broken-down saddle. Your foot issues are just icing on the cake.

Time for a happy cushy new Terry! (and make your feet happy by trying your orthotics too)

[SadieKate]

MP, did you have this before Bend? Before any falls? Has it been slowly increasing or did it suddenly show up that week?

You mentioned it Saturday but I didn't have a chance to ask about when and the progression.

[maillotpois]

Thanks so much you guys. I really appreciate the input. I will make an appt with my doctor, and see what she says.

Knot - out of curiosity, how "major" would the avulsion issues/symptoms be?

[maillotpois]

Oh no - I have had this since at least the 400k in April (maybe the 300 but memory fails). No falls. There is significant bruising down there after "long" rides, though.

[maillotpois]

Bruising?!?!

Well, that changes everything.

Now I blame a broken-down saddle. Your foot issues are just icing on the cake.

Time for a happy cushy new Terry! (and make your feet happy by trying your orthotics too)

Well, I'd think that but I did my brevets on one bike and my doubles on a different bike. Problem is the same for both bikes - same saddle but they're different "ages".

[SadieKate]

So probably not sudden trauma. That's good.

[KnottedYet]

Knot - out of curiosity, how "major" would the avulsion issues/symptoms be?

Well, there'd be some bleeding. (are you still on anticoagulants?) The muscle would be inhibited. (which would lead to more imbalances and more irritations and more compensations) Depending on the size of the avulsion the chip itself might be sawing on soft tissue, causing your body to be inflamed there, and oh.... making a big lump. You'd also be in a lot of pain and probably unable to sit without more pain.

Definitely time to pay a friendly visit to the doc.

Once the problem is isolated the next step is figuring what the cause was in the first place. Without a trauma (did you crash? is it the older saddle?) to the ish tub, the likely root cause is an imbalance of forces acting on the ish tub.

[SadieKate]

So this is a good reason to do some real riding with us. Mtbiking gets you off the saddle!

Briones tomorrow - 180 ft/mile climbing.

[maillotpois]

Again - thanks so much for all the info, researching, etc. I am thinking it is not a trauma (because there was none - unless there was something after a bottle of zin that I just don't recall) but the whole imbalance/ramping up too soon business. I am going to go to a PT bike racer friend after I see my doc.

Knot thanks for the avulsion details. Remote as it was, from the "they never do 100% O2 sat if they have a PE" kid, it was worth asking. :rolleyes:

And I have been off anti-coags since Christmas. About a week or 2 before I got back on the bike. ;)

[crazycanuck]

I wonder if the problem with my left side is from relying on my right side too much?

I'm going back to my original saddle..

C