The Chicken gets plucked!

[Fredwina]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/jul26news
What next?

[teigyr]

Good title but dang....I guess we saw this coming.

Am not even sure what to say anymore.

[Eden]

I really hope that this is not true - seriously unless they haven't realeased something yet the only reason for pulling him would be his missing some out of season tests (for which he has already been punished) and rumors spread by a mt. biking collegue of his. If it comes to pulling riders out because someone *says* that they saw something, heard something, whatever - what kind of chaos would that cause! ANYONE could start a rumor to get any other rider that they wanted pulled from a race. Heck, at least riders wouldn't have to dope, they could take all the money they are saving not buying EPO and use it for bribes instead. :mad:

[teigyr]

If someone tests positive but there are B tests to be done or if the cyclist maintains innocence, are they allowed to finish? If Rasmussen IS innocent, shouldn't he be allowed to ride while all of this is getting sorted out?

Imagine being pulled only to be cleared later. Not that anyone appears to get cleared.

[Pedal Wench]

another source: http://www.velonews.com/tour2007/details/articles/12944.0.html

[Eden]

Someone posted on another board that Rasmussen's team was the decision maker here - they pulled him because they say he lied about his whereabouts during one of the periods he wasn't reachable during the off season. I don't know how accurate this is.

And as far as A tests and B tests go I thought it was supposed to work that way too - The media isn't even supposed to know about a positive test until either the rider waives the right to a B test or the test is performed and confirms the positive, but that all seems to have gone out the window in the last year. Any suspicion and proof positive or not out you go - it sucks.

[Fredwina]

That's a lot better, PedalWench!:)
I think El Pollo wasn't Amigos with anyone on Rabo.

[slinkedog]

WTF! I thought this was a totally chaotic Tour without one team in control, Rabobank gets control and then this! Wow! What an incredible shame.

[bikerchick68]

whoa! I know I shouldn't be surprised... but I am :eek: :(

at least they seem to not just be "slapping their wrists" as punishment anymore... still a bummer tho.

[onimity]

Maybe they should just forget the yellow jersey and start competing for a tie-dyed jersey...

[slinkedog]

Maybe they should just forget the yellow jersey and start competing for a tie-dyed jersey...

LOL! I think I MUST find a tie-dyed jersey now. I'm on an official quest!

[bikerHen]

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: What's next?????

[Fredwina]

Levi tests postive for......






Rogaine!:p

[slinkedog]

Yeah, Levi and Chris Horner. :)

[bikerHen]

Levi tests postive for......






Rogaine!:p

That's great! Thanks for the chuckle! bikerHen

[suzbyrd]

I'd be lying if I said I was pulling for Rasmussen. I'm pulling hard for the Discovery team. But dang, Ras had a great ride today. I wish I had the discipline those boys have to train and eat correctly and keep so little body fat that they are called the "chicken". I think it is terrible that the tests keep getting leaked to the press before there is confirmation. You'd have to be pretty dumb to dope and drug these days. I've said all along that Ras was cheating. If the Tour meant that much to him and he was clean, he'd make damn sure he was where he was supposed to be for the tests. I'm just praying someone doesn't make something up about Discovery. We've got to believe someone is CLEAN.

[Trekhawk]

Yeah, Levi and Chris Horner. :)

Hey dont even joke about Chris Horner he is such a cutie. I have withdrawal symptoms if I dont get to watch the Horner diaries. I will miss him when the tour finishes.

Trek-with a little crush-hawk:D

[ehirsch83]

Maybe they should just forget the yellow jersey and start competing for a tie-dyed jersey...

haha, if they bring in a tie-dyed jersey you might get a bunch of older dope smoking fixie riding men entering the tour, might be a little slower!
j/k :D

But in all reality all of this is sad and you know that they wouldn't just pull him for missing the tests, because otherwise he would have never started to race. They must have a feeling that he would be testing positive after his great ability to keep the yellow jersey....... but that is just my opinion

[Grog]

Maybe they should just forget the yellow jersey and start competing for a tie-dyed jersey...

Ask and you shall receive:
http://www.velowear.com/images/productimages/1010305.jpg
http://www.velowear.com/products/1010305PRT2XL.aspx

[Eden]

I dunno - I can understand balking at having ones every move charted.... its not that he had a list of time that he had to show up for controls and he missed them. Riders are required to present the doping control agency with an agenda of everywhere that they plan to be and when in detail, ahead of time, so that if the bloodsuckers decided to drop in unannonced they know where to find you..... I would certainly have a hard time living like that, I kind of like being able to be spontaneous....
What's next. Locked in their hotel rooms each night, all training camps to be held in North Korea, since they have plenty of experience running prison camps and providing government minders.
I'm afraid I am more on the side of the riders at this point. Sure they catch up some real cheats, but it seems now adays you can't win a race without automatically being accused of doping - maybe it should be a slow race instead. The person who can cross the line last wins - but if you put a foot on the ground you're disqualified.... We could put all 21 days into doing one stage.

[Grog]

haha, if they bring in a tie-dyed jersey you might get a bunch of older dope smoking fixie riding men entering the tour, might be a little slower!
j/k :D

You find just about everything on the Internet:

[spazzdog]

Another exasperating giggle-fest is Morini (?) of Cofidis...

He took part in the "we riders are so tired of the doping" start delay this morning... and was booted at the end of the day for a positive A sample from the other day.

Now that's nervy...

I've been wondering if Ras would go. I think a positive test is lurking out there and his team may be acting before the leak hits.

Drugs, sex, rock & roll... cycling, the new Woodstock.

spazz

p.s. there's some comment by Vino about his positive for doping being a mistake because "he had so much blood in his thighs". Do these guys not know basic biology... 8 (oops, or is it 9) pints of blood in the human body. Except in cycling where they have extra (in little see-through bags in the luggage).

[Grog]

Drugs, sex, rock & roll... cycling, the new Woodstock.


Yeah, without the sex and rock'n roll!

I feel so sorry for these guys. I'm surprised we don't hear of cyclists-suicides more often.

[Eden]

p.s. there's some comment by Vino about his positive for doping being a mistake because "he had so much blood in his thighs". Do these guys not know basic biology... 8 (oops, or is it 9) pints of blood in the human body. Except in cycling where they have extra (in little see-through bags in the luggage).

godness knows how badly this quote was mangled in its translation from Kazhak though.....
I've heard that some think the test shows new/vs old red blood cells and he was trying to make the point that he should have a lot of new cells since he lost a lot of blood from his injuries..., but the test for homologous blood doping actually does test for your cells v/s someone elses. The only way you can truely different types of red blood cells with totally different antigens is to be a true chimera, and that's not something that would only show in one test - ask Tyler how poor an argument that one is....

[Thorn]

Funny, I can believe Landis, I even believed Tyler....but Rasmussen? Naw...he didn't just miss one test, he missed 4 and then we find out he lied about what country he was in?!?!? Nope. Guilty. Signed.

As for Vino, I want to believe him, but it is tough...lab people, may I ask a dumb question? Is it possible to contaminate the sample to give the test results? That is, could the 'evil person' who wanted to see Vino tossed, contaminate his blood sample with a second person's blood? Or, is the blood treated when it is extracted, thus, making it impossible to contaminate?

[Eden]

If this is true (was posted on another board by a Brit) I can't see the TDF continuing this year.

Just reported on Sky news (TV) that most teams will leave the Tour and go home tomorrow..... T-Mobile, FDJ, CA, Gerostina amongst others plan to leave the Tour.... enough is enough..... they claim that until all teams play fair there is no point in racing races like the Tour........ well done UCI for withholding the information on Rasmussen before the Tour... what are they on ?

[spazzdog]

Man, oh, man... this would be a first!

If it continues, if I were Contador, I would refuse to wear the yellow jersey to start. Better to stay in the white one. It has less doo-doo on it this year.

spazz (who never liked yellow anyway :p )

p.s. I believed Tyler right up until he used the "chimera" defense. I walked away to go bury a bone at that point.

[Lifesgreat]

Wow! At the rate they are dropping from the TdF, I shoulda entered! :eek: I would have podiumed even with the climbing skills(?) I have. Ask AuntieK about them.

[Trekhawk]

If this is true (was posted on another board by a Brit) I can't see the TDF continuing this year.

Just reported on Sky news (TV) that most teams will leave the Tour and go home tomorrow..... T-Mobile, FDJ, CA, Gerostina amongst others plan to leave the Tour.... enough is enough..... they claim that until all teams play fair there is no point in racing races like the Tour........ well done UCI for withholding the information on Rasmussen before the Tour... what are they on ?

Oh I hope that is not true. For the clean riders that have trained so hard it would be one hell of a blow.:(

[mikki]

With all of these teams/riders pulling out/being sacked, the question arises: What happens to the standings? Does everyone just move up? What about KOM and green jersey? Do the points for each stage get reassigned to redistribute for the missing riders? Just curious:confused:

I'm sick of hearing about doping. It's sad that these athletes that we look to for inspiration in the sport we love are resorting to this sad tactic. What does it say when one has to dive to the level of having someone's blood transfused into them to get the burst they need to win? Perhaps that they should have trained at higher altitudes...:mad:

[spazzdog]

In the standings, everyone just moves up. I don't think they "redistribute" the points; they're just gone.


On a tangent to the doping thread; anyone know the stats on incidence of doping on the womens side of the fence? I know there must be some there, like in other sports.

[BikeMomma]

Take your pick...

Disgusted.
Flabbergasted.
Disallusioned.
Unbelievabley pissed.
Let down.
Sad.
Worried.
But yet...clinging to a thread of a hope that all this is untrue.

What a Tour.........what a freaking Tour! I'm damned near speechless. :(
~BikeMomma

[bikerHen]

Take your pick...

Disgusted.
Flabbergasted.
Disallusioned.
Unbelievabley pissed.
Let down.
Sad.
Worried.
But yet...clinging to a thread of a hope that all this is untrue.

What a Tour.........what a freaking Tour! I'm damned near speechless. :(
~BikeMomma

I'll take all of the above. This is sad. :( Very Very sad. bikerHen

[spazzdog]

BikeMomma, honey... it's twuu. And, unfortunately, a long time a-comin'.

Perhaps what it will take is the TdF being canceled... stopped right now. The sponsors pull out, the paychecks go away (thus they can't afford to dope), and the sport rebuilds from the ground up.

It would help if other pro-sports (and amateur) went after dopers too, instead of rewarding suspect records (eh-hmm, bonds-atchoo... excuse me)

but I digress...

[mekira]

I just erased all my Tour recordings on my tv :( This is my way of protesting ;) oh and I haven't watched it yesterday or today :(

[ATL Laura]

This is the first year that I’ve watched the TdF. I didn’t know what to expect, but in the past couple of weeks I’ve been completely sucked in...to include crushes on a few of the riders ;) , and even canceling brunch with a friend on Sunday so I could watch the finish live. But now I’m so disappointed in the way things are turning out...especially if that story about so many other teams pulling out is true.

Is the TdF like this every year?

[margo49]

Wow! At the rate they are dropping from the TdF, I shoulda entered! :eek: I would have podiumed ...

This is what I was thinking the other day.
I mean, If 25 years ago I toured all through France alone with a loaded bike including a tent and prepared almost all my own food (even to growing alfalfa sprouts hanging from a nylon tied under the saddle and rinsed every few hours)...
Who knows what I would be able to do *now* on a perfect road bike maintained by expert mechanics to the last millimetre, hotel accomodation, support car(s), etc

ring-ring....ring-ring....ring-ring

Sorry, gotta go...it's The Telephone

[margo49]

Yeah, that was Christian Prudhomme on the phone...
he says everybody from TE on line now gets a free ticket to Paris and he will pick us up from Charles de Gaulle and will everyone e-mail him with details of their dream bike which will be waiting at the start of tomorrow's Stage...

[Fredwina]

This is the first year that I’ve watched the TdF. I didn’t know what to expect, but in the past couple of weeks I’ve been completely sucked in...to include crushes on a few of the riders ;) , and even canceling brunch with a friend on Sunday so I could watch the finish live. But now I’m so disappointed in the way things are turning out...especially if that story about so many other teams pulling out is true.

Is the TdF like this every year?

Normally, no
But, I believe that Pro Cycling is undergoing a sea change at this moment with a shift to clean riding and The Companies/sponsors and Team Organization being held accountable for their rider's action. (vs the old "Sgt. Schluz I know nothing" model) you know when you hit one roach with some insecticide, a whole bunch more come scurrying out? same thing.
It's going to be a wild ride, y'all.

[maillotpois]

http://www.velocitynation.com/pictures/image/feature/wasnt.jpg

[Trekhawk]

http://www.velocitynation.com/pictures/image/feature/wasnt.jpg

Ok its pretty clear tonight I cant read this forum and drink at the same time.
It really makes for a messy computer screen.:D

[maillotpois]

Glad it's not just me. I had to have a bottle of wine to get me through that stage. I was in Sac all day getting texts and emails from people saying "Did you see?" "Did you hear?" So I had to rush home at 90 mph and try to watch the whole darned thing before I could even turn on my computer!

Whew!

[salsabike]

I'm pretty sure Trekhawk spit out her drink because of your "That wasn't chicken" pic. I know I did. Thank you--we needed that!

[BikeMomma]

Yeah, that was Christian Prudhomme on the phone...
he says everybody from TE on line now gets a free ticket to Paris and he will pick us up from Charles de Gaulle and will everyone e-mail him with details of their dream bike which will be waiting at the start of tomorrow's Stage...
Sweet! :D :p

BikeMomma, honey... it's twuu. And, unfortunately, a long time a-comin'.
Yea, spazz......< dramatic long silence >.............I know. But damn, with all the anti-dope hype before the Tour, the last two years of Tyler, Jan, Basso, and Floyd (among lots of others) being put through the ringer and made an example of, and all the new contracts, agreements, and threats of fines from UCI, I thought maybe, just maybe we could have a "clean" (yea, yea, yea :rolleyes: ) Tour and maybe, just maybe, we could have a legitimate winner and we could all dance around joyfully and celebrate this grand thing we lovingly call the Tour de France....the Grand Tour, as it were.

Ya know? It's disheartening. I'm truly angry that these arrogant, cheating few (yeessss, some other than Moreni still remain to be cleared, thus we must consider them innocent until proven guilty, yada yada) think that they can continue to get away with it. It's like they're blind to the change that's already here. Or that I hoped was here. Call me a dreamer, I dunno.

I feel for Contador. Wonder what jersey he'll wear in the morning. Not sure which one I'd rather see -- white because he earned it (and earned it darned well!!), or yellow because he is now the leader of the Tour. After all, it IS still an honorable jersey to wear, and perhaps the right person will be wearing it now.

Bet Rassmuss-Chick-en wishes he never missed those doping tests and never went to Italy and called it Mexico. :rolleyes:

~BikeMomma

[crazycanuck]

We interrupt this program for the evil lurker..

Fingers crossed for Cadel Evans..C'mon Cadel, make Australia proud!! AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIEEEEEE OI OI OI..

From a non tour watcher..

Back to irregular programming..

C

[BikeMomma]

We interrupt this program for the evil lurker..

Fingers crossed for Cadel Evans..C'mon Cadel, make Australia proud!! AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIEEEEEE OI OI OI..

From a non tour watcher..

Back to irregular programming..

C
Quite simply, Cadel rocks. :D

[Velobambina]

Maybe this will make the last few stages more exciting, as the riders will be more reluctant to dope? Or do it to a level where it might be detected.

I hate to say it but I was not pulling for the Chicken. I was hoping that Conti or Levi would win the stage yesterday.

[margo49]

Unattributed quote:
"If my wife thought I was in Mexico and it transpired I had been in italy, I would have more to worry about than getting expelled from the Tour de France"

[jeannierides]

Yeah, that was Christian Prudhomme on the phone...
he says everybody from TE on line now gets a free ticket to Paris and he will pick us up from Charles de Gaulle and will everyone e-mail him with details of their dream bike which will be waiting at the start of tomorrow's Stage...

I'll meet you gals there!:D Even with my current dis- abilities, I can do this!:o

[jeannierides]

I hate to say it but I was not pulling for the Chicken. I was hoping that Conti or Levi would win the stage yesterday.

Me too, VB!

[IFjane]

Me three!

[Eden]

Unattributed quote:
"If my wife thought I was in Mexico and it transpired I had been in italy, I would have more to worry about than getting expelled from the Tour de France"

Hah! so on OLN this morning they said that the way poor chicken was "busted" was that a reporter said he saw him in the Dolomites a few days before the tour. Like I said, these days if anyone even says something then you get kicked out. It's sad and I think its a witch hunt. If this is the case I am on the side of Rasmussen. Gasp a guy who looks like Ras, riding around in a black kit in Italy - some proof! There's a guy around here who makes people double take he looks so much like Lance Armstrong....... (oh and he always races in a plain black kit)

[bikerchick68]

Do you think Rabobank is really that dumb? that they would take some reporters word without questioning Rasmussen further and trying to decide for themselves where he was based on that new information?

I have a hard time believing they're so stupid they based firing the guy on nothing more than that... but then, I'm getting more and more cynical about the pros in the sport as time goes on. :(

[Number 7]

New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/26/sports/sportsspecial1/26tour.html?_r=2&hp=&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1185458574-XG9G8IgeHr2eW8MEQvBWug&oref=slogin)

This article says that when questioned, Ras confessed to being in Italy and not Mexico.


Go Contador!

[SadieKate]

What I am hoping for:

-- An absolutely clean finish to the tour - no more failed tests and lies but I won't be naive if that doesn't happen

-- A very close and competitive time trial showdown between Alberto, Levi and Cadel. I think that would be really exciting.

-- A TT win by George because he could win on this course without jeopardizing the podium standings but I want him to win just cuz.:rolleyes:

Who I'm really happy for: Mauricio Soler. He legitimately took the polka dot jersey off Rasmussen's back. He didn't get it by default and he just exudes the love of the sport and the competition. The Big Red Rooster was bobbin' 'n weaving yesterday.*

*Anyone remember the old California Cheese commercials with the silly rooster voiced by Bob Goldthwait?

[Grog]

I have a hard time believing they're so stupid they based firing the guy on nothing more than that... but then, I'm getting more and more cynical about the pros in the sport as time goes on. :(

There has been four missed controls over the past little while (one year?), two by the Danish authorities and two by the UCI. Rules say you miss three and you're out, however it doesn't say three by WHOM so that was a bit of a tough call, but Danish authorities kicked him out of the Danish national team (Olympics etc.), and commented about how he did not collaborate with them. I'm surprised Robobank kept him for so long, it's not really good for the sponsors' name to have one of your team's racers being excluded from his national team.

ETA: Actually the EXCELLENT NYT article linked above states that the rules say that it's three missed controls by the same organization. Supposedly the rule has been or is going to be changed for "three controls" period.

[li10up]

Men in black is not to be taken literally. It was another rider that saw MR in the Dolomites - not a reporter. Looks like he's told so many lies he himself can't keep track of them all.

[Geonz]

THe question in my mind is how deeply adn widely the corruption flows. If somebody could be stupid enough to keep a-dopin', then somebody else might be clever enough to bribe the right folks to plant the right stuff.
Now, egos being what they are it may be more likely an athlete will want that thrill and taste and feel of victory, as in crossing that line first with that euphoric (if pain-laden) thrill - badly enough to figure "I won't be caught... I'm doing x, y, and z" or "they're all doing it so they can't bust us all!" ... or any of the things we put together to rationalize irrational behavior. I don't know. I don't think the testers are necessarily *anything* like "clean" either, though.

I think too many people take competition just too seriously...

[jusdooit]

As for Vino, I want to believe him, but it is tough...lab people, may I ask a dumb question? Is it possible to contaminate the sample to give the test results? That is, could the 'evil person' who wanted to see Vino tossed, contaminate his blood sample with a second person's blood? Or, is the blood treated when it is extracted, thus, making it impossible to contaminate?

Maybe possible, but very unlikely. There are several parameters on a regular ole CBC that indicate a dimorphic population. It is very common to see in patients receiving blood transfusions. It is unlikely that a sample can be contaminated homogeneously enough to show these same results. As for Vino's excuse about the young versus old thing, there are a couple of blood test that can indicate that his bone marrow is trying to catch up for blood loss, I doubt that he came near to the loss required to put his body into this type of "panic" mode (like about 2 pints).

As for trying to cover for the presence of two blood types shows he may have bigger problems on the horizon. Meaning he didn't bother to get a compatible blood type, which could cause life-threatening conditions to occur.
Maybe even years down the road. What if he has to have a transfusion because of say a car accident? He has set himself up to a likely transfusion reaction, which could then take his life.

Do I feel sorry for Ras and the diary keeping of the pros? Not at all. It's part of the job. Don't like it...find another job. I think you should be fired if you don't follow the rules. Rabobank should have dumped him before the Tour started.

[janetsplanet]

Why did they wait till the end of the tour and He was winning. The team knew this for some time..
What is up with that?:confused:

[margo49]

The Danish Cycling Federation knew, the UCI knew but the *team* dint.
They did ask questions and got answers that satisfied them until it became clearly a lie. They confronted him and he either admitted it or at least dint deny it.
I think this a perfectly reasonable chain of events given the countries involved.

I tell you who I feel sorriest for is the rest of the team and the behind-the-scenes mechanics, physiotherapists,etc who worked so hard for Rasmussen.

[amymisk]

I have to admit I have been saddened by this tour. I won't stop watching though, especially since I have been rooting for Contador and Levi. Mind you, Contador is not without his share of controversy.

I do find watching Soler exciting and was happy to see him earn that polka dot jersey.

I read that Rassmussen admitted to lying about his where abouts and that is why he was fired from the team. Ethics violation, funny huh? Now the team and managers are concerned about ethics. After Rabo let Rassmussen train alone for this tour, Chicken insisted on solitary training and they allowed it. Suspicious behaviour in my book. EPO is only detectable for 72 hours after the last dose, but the effects last for 4-5 weeks. So, the missed tests while training with no reported doping results during the tour is completely possible. All he had to do was stop a few days before heading to France!

I am holding out hopes for a clean 2008 tour!