What Does 25% Grade Look Like?

[Mr. Bloom]

You might be surprised. This is near the Ohio River in our small suburb...Its about 320 feet from the stop sign to the top of the hill; my Garmon measured it at 25% grade - much to my surprise.

I have done it twice, but I'm using the first and second gear (on a triple). I tried to start it in 5th gear and couldn't get halfway...unable to shift down at such slow speed.

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa201/MrSilver1963/127-2738_IMG.jpg

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa201/MrSilver1963/127-2740_IMG.jpg


And, I never knew I was going the "Wrong Way" until I looked at this picture. For obvious reasons, it doesn't get much traffic...

[solobiker]

Pretty steep hill. I grew up in upstate NY then moved to CO. I have biked far stepper hill in NY then I have ever found out here in CO. Keep up the great work, just think "power" :D

[RolliePollie]

Mr. Silver - I'm so glad you posted this! It's ironic...just today I was pondering grade percentages and wishing I could figure out how steep some of the hills are around here. I don't have GPS or anything else for measuring. I know what a 3% grade is like because the local bike path runs up an old 3% railroad grade. Now I also know what 25% looks like. Hmmm, does anyone else have pictures of a 5%, 8%, 10%, 12%, 15%, etc.? Just kidding :rolleyes:

Good job making it up that hill...I would only attempt it in my super granny gear and even then, it looks like a challenge!

[Eden]

. Hmmm, does anyone else have pictures of a 5%, 8%, 10%, 12%, 15%, etc.? Just kidding :rolleyes:

lol - if you ask me after a certain steepness they all "look" the same. I've tried to use some of those online route mapping sites, but there's just too much margin of error.

[mimitabby]

Eden, let's go out with a bike computer and an altimeter; we can figure it out!

[Tri Girl]

Yowzers that's steep! Good thing you've been going up the wrong way, because if you were going down I don't think you could stop in time- you'd be swimming in the lake up ahead. :eek:

[Eden]

Eden, let's go out with a bike computer and an altimeter; we can figure it out!

It would be easy with that info - rise over run! shucks tho - I don't have any fancy gadgets like that - spent all my money on the fancy bike....

[mimitabby]

oh.. I don't either! But Raleighdon has enough of that equipment to drive his bike out into space.

[Torrilin]

US geological survey topo maps will let you get an approximate grade for large hills. I've cross checked them on hills I know have a posted grade, and it's usually pretty close (+/- 1% or better). The only depressing part about checking them was discovering that my nemesis hill is a piddling 5% grade on the steepest incline. *shakes her fist at Wisconsin for being so flat*

[Thorn]

Torrilin, Torrilin, Torrilin...what am I going to do to convince you that not all of Wisconsin is flat!?!?!?!?!? Where are you located? Perhaps I can help you find a real hill? :D :D :D

Even with the fancy gadgets, getting a good measure on a hill is hard. A good lock on my GPS and all measurements are still +/- 15m. I've gotten pretty good at doing running averages when I'm going up hills, ignoring those first glimpses of 10-12% unless I see a lot in that range. I have a hill that I can see several spikes into th high teens, but it averages out to only 12%.

In Italy we saw some really steep grades...going into one of the hill towns was a 25% grade. Quite a bit longer than your road, Mr. Silver, but I will admit I didn't make it up the hill...oh, it wasn't that I ran out of oomph...oh, no...it was because I was moving so slowly the horse parade caught up and I had to pull off, of course ;) Seriously, there was a horse parade, but, ok, I really wasn't going any farther. 25% is really steep--I'm impressed you can get up that hill.

Oh, and I agree with Eden--all inclines start to look the same. I have some 4% grades nearby that look almost flat, but in Italy, after climbing for an hour, I was convinced the road was going downhill, but I looked at the GPS and it said a steady 4%. It is just a matter of perspective.

[Torrilin]

I'm in Madison. And I know it's not *all* flat, but I'm used to the mountains around LA and central PA hills. So lots of things that a sane person would say is hilly I look at and go "that's flat".

Never claimed to be sane tho :D

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Pretty steep hill. I grew up in upstate NY then moved to CO. I have biked far stepper hill in NY then I have ever found out here in CO. Keep up the great work, just think "power" :D

I live in rural upstate NY and we have nothing but rolling hills around us in every direction, and some of them are killers. My riding average is usually only 10 mph partly because of the hills.
I have tried to take pictures of some of the hills but through the camera lens they don't look nearly as steep as they are in real vision for some weird reason. In the phoots they look dinky and then I put the camera down and they looks monstrous again! :rolleyes: Sort of like how a photo of a sunset never looks nearly as breathtaking as the real thing.

[Aggie_Ama]

Lisa- We have a lot rollers mixed with an equal amount of steep hills. I don't know of one ride from our house that could be considered flat! I wonder how bad the grades are? A lot of them look as steep as Mr. Silver's hill.

The other thing that makes some of the not so intimidating ones bad is the quality of road. They may be rough county roads, turn or have banking. It sure does make you strong for a flat ride. :D

[Thorn]

I'm in Madison. And I know it's not *all* flat, but I'm used to the mountains around LA and central PA hills. So lots of things that a sane person would say is hilly I look at and go "that's flat".

Never claimed to be sane tho :D


Sure...we ain't got mountains, but I guess I prefer rollers for training--consider it speedwork for those long mountain rides you really want to do when you go back to visit LA and PA!

If you're in Madison, you're just a hop, skip, and a car transport to Bluemounds. The Horrible Hilly people keep their cue sheet on line--http://www.horriblyhilly.com/course.html Never long by mountain standards, but many steep hils. That route was actually plotted to maximize incline. A little west still has some steep ones... Try http://www.dairylanddare.com/ for another cue sheet.

Of course, I'm rather smitten with that area of the state--rolling hills, gorgeous land, relatively friendly vehicles. Sigh..but I'm a long way away.

But count your blessings--you could be located in the Stevens Point area--the sandy flat lands of the former glacial Lake Wisconsion. I think Florida has more hills than they do.

[CR400]

Wow, that looks painful. The only blessing is that it is short compared to what it could be. Imagine trying to climb that beast for another 100ft. I don't think I would make it.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Wow, that looks painful. The only blessing is that it is short compared to what it could be. Imagine trying to climb that beast for another 100ft. I don't think I would make it.

True- it looks to be only about 5 or 6 cars lengths long. Plus- there's a running head start flat spot at the bottom! Where I live the bottom of the hill ends right on a highway in a "T"....so you just have to get spinning immediately from a stop. :eek:
We have a short hill on our usual routes that is about this steep as in the photo, but there is a bank of woods up the right side of the road, a deep wooded ravine on the other, crumbling asphalt with NO shoulder, no painted lines on the pavement, and a blind right angle turn right in the middle. It's pretty scary when you are halfway up your crawl and you hear a farm truck approaching from behind.... :eek: :(

[PinkBike]

this is a bad shot from the tour yesterday, but you see gerdeman cresting the hill and then it looks like just a huge dropoff, it was a magnificent shot! 3794

[Jiffer]

You might be surprised. This is near the Ohio River in our small suburb...Its about 320 feet from the stop sign to the top of the hill; my Garmon measured it at 25% grade - much to my surprise.

I have done it twice, but I'm using the first and second gear (on a triple). I tried to start it in 5th gear and couldn't get halfway...unable to shift down at such slow speed.

I hate to burst your bubble, but this is not a 25% grade. :( There's pretty much no such thing as a paved 25% grade. Your Garmin was probably affected by all the trees. That hill looks like a 9 or 10, which is definitely killer.

I showed the picture to Dh, who is like King of the Hills and very familiar with grade percentages. He concurred that it was probably a 9 or so. We both have a Garmin and know how it can freak out and show strange numbers when you're surrounded by trees or other obstructions.

But good for you for doing it! Definitely not easy! :D

[Eden]

I hate to burst your bubble, but this is not a 25% grade. :( There's pretty much no such thing as a paved 25% grade. Your Garmin was probably affected by all the trees. That hill looks like a 9 or 10, which is definitely killer.


I don't know anything about the accuracy of a Garmin, but yes Virgina paved roads up to and over 25% do exist....
Seriously, the record holder is 30 some percent (there was a recent discussion of this on another thread) San Francisco, Pittsburgh, Seattle, New Zealand all have their share of steepies. I would say that hill is probably steeper than 9 or 10 percent easily, but I can't look at it and tell the difference between 18% and 25%. Remember now that we're talking about percent grade, not degree of angle (I would expect the Garmin to be pretty acurate though.. at least better than Topo - which I have used, but its too easy to come off the actual road and get variations)

[Wahine]

If you have a Garmin Forerunner, it relies on satellite info to calculate elevation and grade percentages. These are not accurate. I have done rides where the total elevation climbing was 4500 ft and my Garmin Forerunner has come up with almost twice that. If you have the Edge, it has an altimeter built in to it and may be more accurate for straight elevation numbers but again I'm not sure if it calculates grade based on rise over run or from satellite info.

Looks steep though and good on ya!

[GLC1968]

Pinkbike - isn't that shot amazing!?! When I saw it last night, I swear that my stomach turned at the thought of riding over that crest (even though it probably wasn't as crazy as it looks from that angle)!!


I agree that it's hard to tell from a picture, but that road/grade looks very, very similiar to one we ride. My Polar calculated the one I ride at 13% (using barometric pressure as the altimeter, not GPS). It's REALLY hard to ride if you happen to hit it in the wrong gear (speaking from experience!! :o ). Thank goodness the one I ride is also pretty short!

[Duck on Wheels]

Hmmm. Wonder where my old pictures from Kvam i Gudbrandsdalen are. I'd have to digitize them, but I do have a shot or two of the old road heading up there. I remember when I bought my first car (an East German Trabant, 2-cylinder 2-stroke with a gravity fuel line) my friends up there told me I should have read the handbook first because a Trabant would not make it up their hill with its 30% grade on the zig below their zag. I thought I might have to do like my folks' painter friend did when he drove his Model A Ford up to his place on top of Sonoma Mountain -- drive it backwards do keep the fuel flowing to the motor. But I didn't have to do a 3-point turn on that narrow little road and back up. The 30% stretch must have been short enough that the fuel already in the motor lasted through it. Don't think my "fuel" would get me up that hill on a bike, though. I can hike it, but I'm sure I couldn't ride it.

[SouthernBelle]

True that they don't build road grades that steep now, but they used to build roads just up and over anything. We've got roads around here from early 1800s, long before we were a state. So the original roads might have just been paths, but now they are maintained roads.

[Thorn]

Can't vouch for that hill, but I concur you can find roads that steep. They aren't common, but they exist.

You can't necessarily trust the instanteous readout on your GPS--consider if one reading was off by -30m and the next reading off by +30m. However, the average will be close. The Garmin software does pull out the outlyers and correct against topo data (if you send it up their website).

The organizer of one of my favorite charity rides likes to describe the SW corner of mystate as "a place where they'll hang asphalt off the side of a cliff and call it a road". I suspect that a lot of rural areas in the country that haven't seen a lot of citification are the same.

[michelem]

Kelownagirl posted this link a while back (found it through a search). I've found it helpful. Just plug in distance and gain and you get percent grade:

http://www.csgnetwork.com/inclinedeclinegradecalc.html

[Mr. Bloom]

I hate to burst your bubble, but this is not a 25% grade. :( There's pretty much no such thing as a paved 25% grade.

Bubble's not burst (or bursted;) ), but I do believe it's accurate, albeit not precise. As Lisa said, photo's are deceiving and this one is. In addition, consider this:

25% grade on a 320 ft diagonal run only requires about 60' or 70' of rise (since the paved diagonal run is the hypotenuse of a right triangle and therefore longer than the horizontal run); what you don't see in the picture are the two houses that provide a good perspective confirming this
this street is two blocks off the center of a town that looks nearly the same as it did 150 years ago. It's a river town and pavement wasn't planned, it evolved. I think the reason it's one way going down is because of the noise caused by cars 'burning rubber' in trying to climb it.
I can easily take a 10% grade in middle to top gears with no problem; I can't even stand and walk on this one with my cycling shoes on and can't even get started to climb in anything over 2nd easiest gear.


While I acknowledge the shortcomings of Garmon or anything other than a survey, I assure you that it's not a 9 or 10% grade...

[onimity]

The Garmin Edge uses GPS + a barometric altimeter to determine altitude so it is supposedly a lot more accurate than the Forerunner that just uses GPS. The Forerunner is very often *way* off. For example, I climbed a hill this morning that is marked as a 12% grade. The forerunner told me it was -- get this -- a 427% grade! Somehow I got up to 14,000 some feet in less than a mile...

Now that was a particularly egregious error but I do find that it regularly gives me readings of 18+% on a hill that I know to be 8% at its worst.

That said, it is a steep hill! The good thing about grades that steep is that it is difficult to make them *too* steep. (They never do seem so steep in the photos though, do they?)

Solobiker, I think I need to ride with you! I seem to run into steep grades anytime I head west! :eek:

Anne

[SadieKate]

Fun article.

http://www.bikereader.com/contributors/Ainsley/hills.html

[East Hill]

This morning teigyr and I were admiring the local toughie--what we refer to as Claimjumper Hill (at the bottom of Southcenter for the locals). It's a 21% grade.

I've ridden down it, and I've seen people ride up it. Slowly. Very slowly :p .

East Hill

[dex]

This morning teigyr and I were admiring the local toughie--what we refer to as Claimjumper Hill (at the bottom of Southcenter for the locals). It's a 21% grade.

I've ridden down it, and I've seen people ride up it. Slowly. Very slowly :p .


I don't even like to drive up that hill.

[Bluetree]

This one is an annual event in L.A.:
Fargo Street Climb (http://lawheelmen.org/fargo.htm)

Baxter Street (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.walkinginla.com/2004/Feb15/BaxterSt.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.walkinginla.com/2004/Feb15/EldredSt.html&h=350&w=234&sz=57&hl=en&start=29&tbnid=NCsEJnq_jB3FrM:&tbnh=120&tbnw=80&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dwheelmen%2Bfargo%26start%3D20%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN) is another challenging street.
http://www.walkinginla.com/2004/Feb15/BaxterSt.jpg

[mimitabby]

This morning teigyr and I were admiring the local toughie--what we refer to as Claimjumper Hill (at the bottom of Southcenter for the locals). It's a 21% grade.

I've ridden down it, and I've seen people ride up it. Slowly. Very slowly :p .

East Hill

augh! my husband admires that stupid hill all the time. my first experience on it was in winter fog in an old PU truck with weak brakes. AUGH! horrible.
now I just glare at it when i drive by.

[mimitabby]

PS Jiffer, you can't tell from a 2 dimensional photo what the percent inclination of a hill is, sorry. And I know there are much steeper hills than 12% right here in town, and I'm not using a flakey Garmin. Photos are deceptively, well, FLAT!

[SouthernBelle]

There is a hill on a route I ride regularly which runs 21-23% (it's a little oggly-goggly). Because of the way it's made it's pretty much impossible to photograph it and give the true impression. It's also been a road for well over 150 years.

[Eden]

cyclists coming up a 20% hill
http://www.vision4corners.com/modules.php?set_albumName=2006-Photos&id=rcrr2006_4&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php

[East Hill]

I can tell I am going to have to do a test ride up the thing and let everyone know how much fun it is. Perhaps I can get teigyr to video me one day struggling up it :) . It has grooves in the road base, though, to make it easier for cars to climb. Harder for bikes!

East Hill

[silver]

The Garmin Edge uses GPS + a barometric altimeter to determine altitude so it is supposedly a lot more accurate than the Forerunner that just uses GPS. The Forerunner is very often *way* off. For example, I climbed a hill this morning that is marked as a 12% grade. The forerunner told me it was -- get this -- a 427% grade! Somehow I got up to 14,000 some feet in less than a mile...

Now that was a particularly egregious error but I do find that it regularly gives me readings of 18+% on a hill that I know to be 8% at its worst.

That said, it is a steep hill! The good thing about grades that steep is that it is difficult to make them *too* steep. (They never do seem so steep in the photos though, do they?)

Solobiker, I think I need to ride with you! I seem to run into steep grades anytime I head west! :eek:

Anne

Mr. is using the Garmin Edge 305. However he has not yet downloaded this info to the computer, and I do think that when that is done, that the software to do some sort of verification of accuracy.

I showed him this hill after hearing some of the guys at the LBS talking about it. Several very strong riders said they couldn't make it up. They all agreed that it had the highest grade in the area.

I won't even try it on my double. But it is my goal to do a lot more hill work and maybe take the triple Trek 1000 over and give it a try before the year is over.

We live on the Ohio River and this is something of a bluff here on the Indiana side. As Mr. said this hill is just 2 blocks off the historic towncenter. The Town of Newburgh was a bustling river town in the 1800's Can you imagine the horses pulling a cart over this?

http://www.newburgh.org/

The street that you see (where the first up picture is taken) is the main street through town and you cannot cross it without stopping. So there's not too much room for a flat start.

[teigyr]

I can tell I am going to have to do a test ride up the thing and let everyone know how much fun it is. Perhaps I can get teigyr to video me one day struggling up it :) . It has grooves in the road base, though, to make it easier for cars to climb. Harder for bikes!

East Hill

You scare me :p

Honestly, I don't even like driving up that hill let alone down...:eek: ...we ALL know how I feel about downhills!

[IFjane]

True that they don't build road grades that steep now, but they used to build roads just up and over anything. We've got roads around here from early 1800s, long before we were a state. So the original roads might have just been paths, but now they are maintained roads.


Susan - you are right. Here in the east (and in the west) early highways are simply paved cart paths through the mountains and over hills. That's what makes them so tough. By the time the engineers got to the Rockies they had learned how to make roads. They had much longer climbs but at much less grade.

[SouthernBelle]

This morning will out taking some docs to be signed by a client I had cause to think of this thread. I decided to check out a rode I had never ridden or driven on to see if it was suitable for a ride. At first it was your normal 2 lane country road. Then it suddenly turned into a single lane, curvy, up and down hill roller coaster ride! I was concerned that I would meet a vehicle coming the other way.

But it was newly paved.

[Mr. Bloom]

they used to build roads just up and over anything. So the original roads might have just been paths, but now they are maintained roads.

About 100 years ago, in a land far, far away (that is, The University of Alabama), the UofA decided to put sidewalks on campus.

The school of engineering was engaged to design a layout for campus sidewalks.

The engineers came up with a magnificent plan that was going to efficiently guide the campus foot traffic.

The University's Dean looked at the elaborate plan and simply commented:


"Why don't you simply put the sidewalks where paths are worn in the grass?:confused: :confused: :(

I guess this explains why:
- the Stadium still bears Dean Denny's name:) , and
- Auburn has the good engineering school in Alabama:rolleyes: ;) :D

[BadgerGirl]

I am curious as to where you are at in Colorado Solo. I am sure I can find some good rides for you if you wanted a little steeper.

[Tuckervill]

Auburn has the good engineering school in Alabama

Ha! Good one.

Karen

[SouthernBelle]

I want you to know that I am restraining myself from comment.