How to get past "wall" at 50miles?

[nomummytummy]

Hi there after 8 weeks on my divine new bike - http://www.emc2bikes.com/index.php/ps_pagename/bikedetail/bikemodel/17 - and being new to road cycling after riding a MTB for about 3 years, I find that I'm really struggling to get past about 50 miles. :( About 4-5 miles before 50, I just hit a wall. I have also become v v tired during the week w the extra kilometers.
I have scrambled eggs on toast w fruit & maybe a cofffee before we go. I started making my drinks 1/2 water & 1/2 OJ instead of just water and being particular about eating when the bunch stops - a mandarin & nut bar at about 30k. I have this thing about only eating foods that have more words than numbers in the ingredient list, so have shied away from gels or bars. Do you think I need to look at my nutrition - both whist riding - and during the week for sustained energy?

Or do I need to just toughen up & ride longer rides? I am aiming for a 100mile ride in November.

Thanks for your ideas! Louise :)

[SadieKate]

Can you give us more info about your weekly and daily training schedule on a daily basis? Give us length, intensity, terrain, effort level, etc. Are you sticking to this plan every week or are some weeks different?

[nomummytummy]

Well in theory I do a big ride on Sunday - meant to be going to 90k, but keep just running out of gas, so not got to there yet. I do 1 spin class on Wednesday mornings before work & I often miss breakfast after this as I am too hot to eat for about 2 hours. I try to get to another spin on Friday AMs, but w 3 kids & 2 businesses between me & my husband, Friday often gets dropped. I used to do weights 2x/week, but with the extra riding I am just too tired to face 2 extra 5:30am starts! I have tried to schedule in hills on Thursday afternoons before the kids finish school, but both times I had a puncture that changing took too much of the time away. I woudl like to train more but being winter here & short days I can't see how to get it in, unless I regain the energy to get up in the mornings.

Mostly I eat well - I can be a bit of an adrenaline junkie & run on nothing, but I have learnt to be more aware. So I either have eggs on toast w fruit or a scone for breakfast & a latte - full milk!

Lunch @11 is a salad w meat or a sandwich w meat & salad, or maybe a slice of some flash pie & salad - you get the idea. If I get really busy at work, sometimes there is no break between patients after this time & I might have another coffee on the run rather than stop. If that is the case I get home at 7pm as a "mouth on legs" and then snack on cheese, crackers & fruit whilst I make dinner. Mostly it is a homemade meal w meat & veges - put together as stir-fry, in a pie, in a lasagne, as a roast - you get the idea. If I'm feeling peckish afterwards, I may have a microwaved pudding w ice cream - maybe once a week. Fridays are cheat day - I have a lemon poppy seed muffin & latte for breakfast, lunch as usual then we have takeaway indian curry or fish & chips & a wine or two. Not too extravagent & still I aim to have salad or veges. Lately I have not been enjoying takeaways as just too rich & I wake multiple times during the night feeling full & uncomfortable - so this has happened less & less. (About once or twice a week I have a piece of white chocolate passionfruit cheesecake for a treat.)

I know I need to eat in the afternoons & this has been a hurdle for me for as long as I have been in practice. We take lunch at 11 so we are back to see patients over their lunches in 12-2. Then at 2pm I am meant to eat, but if I run over or one of the team want to talk with me - that time just disappears & I have a full reception again. (To be that busy is a high value problem:D )

How's that for extra info?

Lou

[nomummytummy]

Oh & I forgot to say that I seem to have hurt my (R)knee. Baically ITB/VMO imbalance with a bit of a weaker (R) glut & tight psoas - residue of an old disc innury. I have skipped spin for 2 weeks to try & rest my knee, seen my chiropractor, had a massage - with one booked each week for next 2 weeks & started stretching again. I also had my bike set up altered 4 weeks ago b/c my knee was getting sore but before it got REALLY sore. They moved my seat back & shortened the stem bit to the hande bars.

[alpinerabbit]

Wow, zero (ok the MTB counts) to 90 in 8 weeks is pretty steep. My first season I only made it to 80 (I had not Mountain biked before though).
Especially since you rode to the extent that you hurt some ligament. So did I in my first season and it took all winter and a refit to make it go away. Ligament injuries take about 6 weeks to heal and they have a habit of returning.
I would take it easy for a couple weeks until you don't hurt anymore.

You need to eat more on your rides, especially when (or actually before) you hit the wall. I also like eggs for breakfast. Try cheese too. And if your stomach can take it, whole grain bread of the darkest kind you can find. After 30K, eat sommat every hour.
Bananas are good and "number free", as are dried fruit. Hammer gel says it's only natural ingredients but I haven't tried it. Other than that you can mix up your own energy drinks using Maltodextrin, a pinch of salt and some flavor (fruit syrups).


P.S. NICE BIKE.

[Torrilin]

Eat more, both on the bike and in your daily life.

Even for comparatively short rides (like my 4-8 milers), you may need to eat. I usually end up riding over part of when I'd eat lunch... and the not eating lunch would lead to poor judgement, exhaustion, and generally stupid riding (so far all my falls can be attributed to need to eat lunch). Now, I either pack a lunch with me, or get a sandwich while I'm out.

The gels and such that you see are meant for people doing long rides - think training for metric or Imperial centuries. That's *you*. It's pretty easy to look up the chemistry and medical research that supports these sorts of performance products. You don't *need* to use them if they sound utterly awful, but if you start having problems with real food, it's good to have them around as an alternative.

Try adding some plain granola bars to your bike food, and maybe up your liquid intake. A banana might not be a bad idea either, if the idea of something sweet doesn't gross you out. In hot weather I can easily need 1.5 liters of water on a 6 mile ride and my hot is 80-90F with moderate humidity. I fully expect that once I work up to 12 mile rides, I'll start to need electrolyte resupply. Yay :P. Right now if I'm coming up short on electrolytes, I can hit a corner market or grocery store or *something*... 12 miles in some directions means no stores.

After you ride you need to eat too. I mostly don't right now, but I'm not riding long enough to get towards dinnertime and I don't do enough miles. A glass of milk after tastes really good and leaves me in better shape tho.

[alpinerabbit]

For anything under 60 miles I would not say you need electrolyte beverages, except in extremely hot weather (30°C plus - when I would hardly ride at all). Then again I don't sweat as much or as salty as other people.

I usually take only water, and we may (or may not) have a salty snack along or have a cheese sandwich somewhere.

[SouthernBelle]

AP, I can tell you live in a cooler climate. I seldom get to ride in anything cooler than that during the summer unless I leave out at 5 a.m. :p

[Trek420]

You need to eat more on your rides, especially when (or actually before) you hit the wall. I also like eggs for breakfast. Try cheese too. And if your stomach can take it, whole grain bread of the darkest kind you can find. After 30K, eat sommat every hour.
Bananas are good and "number free", as are dried fruit. Hammer gel says it's only natural ingredients but I haven't tried it. Other than that you can mix up your own energy drinks using Maltodextrin, a pinch of salt and some flavor (fruit syrups).


P.S. NICE BIKE.

Lara bars are good and "number free" :) You could make your own gorp.

I've done that even on organized ride for instance if riding with anyone on a special diet. When Duck on Wheels and I "survived the epic brutal Cinderella Century" I concocted custom gorp for her.

Disclosure here; while I've found some don't want nutrition advice from the chubby gal but I do ride long miles. To ride distance you're training your body but also your stomach. Learn what you can ride/train on, that takes time.

In training I like food made from food :) Go figure :p

But on a century or multi day ride I'll eat pretty much anything they put in reach of me. :cool:

I learned that for me raisins work as well as gels and the energy lasts longer.

There are particular foods I ride better on like oatmeal for breakfast :D and I avoid anything with grease. There are foods that I feel aid my recovery like chocolate milk is the perfect recovery bev ....

The trick is just get out there and ride and eat and eat and ride, you'll soon find what you like.

P.S. NICE BIKE

[Kano]

AP, I can tell you live in a cooler climate. I seldom get to ride in anything cooler than that during the summer unless I leave out at 5 a.m. :p

You know, I didn't even think about that until I took a moment to convert, and you're right 'Belle! What I wouldn't give for a day under 90F right about now!

So, what this all adds up to is a big thank you: I probably needed this info more than I realized!

Karen in Boise

[KnottedYet]

EAT MORE!

I eat huge b'fasts and 2 smaller meals with at least 2 snack breaks for fruit between my meals and often an evening snack.

If I'm on the bike I eat about every half hour, or I hit "the wall." I drink electrolyte rather than water, because I am a huge sweat-monster and I also need the carbs.

Try looking into the Clif product line. I also like to eat foods I can pronounce (and that don't irritate my gut). www.clifbar.com They use mostly organic ingredients and avoid the refined stuff as much as they can.

What works for me: (and I found it after trial and error, which is what it takes for everyone. "Your mileage may vary." :D )
1 bottle of Clif Shot electrolye Lemonade every hour or so. http://www.clifbar.com/eat/shot_drink.cfm?location=shotdrink
3 Clif Bloks (cran-razz flavor, yum!) every half hour (there are 6 bloks per pack) http://www.clifbar.com/eat/shot_blok.cfm?location=shot
A Lara Bar during longer rest breaks. www.larabar.com

If you're not giving your body fuel to burn, it'll burn your tissues instead. Bye-bye muscle! Bye-bye liver stores! Your body will hang on to the fats, because it's going to go into "crisis mode." It won't burn fats if it thinks the food/fuel supply is unstable. (but you already know that) EAT MORE!

If your work load is too heavy in the afternoon for a real lunch, how about making your breakfasts bigger and with more fats and protien?

Edit: BTW, Clif Nectar bars are pretty similar to the Lara bars. http://www.clifbar.com/eat/eat.cfm?location=nectar

[SouthernBelle]

I'll second the vote for Clifbars. they aren't overly sweet and sit on my stomach fine.

I'm sweaty too, so I always have an electrolyte drink in one bottle and water in the other.

P-nut butter and banana sandwich on whole grain bread, cut into quarters is good food too.

[DarcyInOregon]

Knottedyet gives perfect advice. Way to go!

Think of the rides with respect to time. When you go 50 miles, you are spending a lot of time doing cardio on your bike. Your body must have sustenence. You got some good advice from all of the posts, and the trick is to focus on liquid and nutrition as you increase your distance, to discover what works for you, because you are spending more "time" with a sustained high heart rate, and you are burning calories, electrolytes and water out of your body.

I can tell you what works for me, but keep in mind it might be different for you. I have two 28 oz water bottles filled with a fitness drink containing electrolytes and calories. On hot days I carry additional smaller bottles in my rear jersey pockets. I carry Clif Bloks (no caffeine) in a small handlebar pouch, and another backup package in my saddle pack. I carry fitness drink powder backup in my saddle pack also. I will carry a banana and some oreo cookies. All of that will get me through 50 miles.

I am careful to stay focused on my time and miles, and I stop to rest my rear off the saddle at certain intervals. I take this time to drink and eat. On the longer rides, in the last 10 miles, if I feel fatigue, that is when I really start popping the Clif Bloks, which is why they are easy for me to reach in the handlebar pouch.

When I get back to my starting point, which is usually my car at the State Park, I have a thermos of chocolate milk waiting for me as my recovery drink.

Mostly, though, you need more rides to figure this all out for your own body.

Darcy

[nomummytummy]

Thank you everyone. You are right - I just don't eat enough. I logged my calories on fitday today for the last week - best as I could remember - and although I feel like I never stop eating - I'm not making 1800 cal on any day.

So I have planned out eating for the next week to get me to 2000/day & Ive bought a frame bag to pack more food into so I can take some peanut butter & jam sandwiches. I also bought an electrolyte sachet to try. www.peakfuel.co.nz We don't seem to have the Lara or Clif bars here at either the health food shop or the cycle shop. So will try real food for a while longer. Maybe I'll get a ride in on Wednesday afternoon if I can arrange a babysitter!

I couldn't help myself & also brought home a pair of arm warmers. I rationalised that I'd need them to be able to wear my cute new vello bella jersey from TE shop. It's for my birthday in 3 weeks, but has already arrived & I know where my husband "hides" things.

[Torrilin]

For anything under 60 miles I would not say you need electrolyte beverages, except in extremely hot weather (30°C plus - when I would hardly ride at all). Then again I don't sweat as much or as salty as other people.

I usually take only water, and we may (or may not) have a salty snack along or have a cheese sandwich somewhere.

Yah, the electrolyte thing for me is a Known Issue with this make and model of body. Water tastes good to me when I'm thirsty, so I hydrate just fine. And I hydrate and I hydrate and pretty soon water tastes delicious and sweet even tho I'm working on a liter and I've just chugged a liter down... I'm not sure how close I am to collapsing from no electrolytes in my body at all at that point, but it's scared my doctors a few times. And if I *do* get to that point, anything that improves my electrolyte balance tastes bad. So now I alternate water with OJ, lemonade, limeade or gatorade, even if I don't feel like I need it.

It's a YMMV thing for sure.

[nomummytummy]

so thankyou all for all your advice. I did a few things:

A) Tried eating 2000cal everyday to ensure I was eating enough. I found that really hard! I felt bloated and full all the time. It just seemed that I was always thinking about food & then eating. So I relaxed that a bit and am sitting at about 1800 and feeling OK - you know eating when I want & need, but still having treats when I want. Funnily enough I had McDonalds yesterday for the first time since christmas & i'm sure I got 2000 from that meal alone!

B) Got electrolyte drinks. That made a huge difference I think. I drank more on each ride (4) since I've used it, than when drinknig just water.

C) Bought one of those little bento boxes to go on the top bar/stem, so I can see my food whilst riding rather than forgetting about it b/c it's in my back pockets. Used an EAS power gel last week - was OK. Found a "double latte" one to try tomorrow! I might have to accept that when riding I'll have more processed "foods" that normally I'd choose.

D) Raised my seat by 3/4 inch & my knee immediately stopped hurting. I also had sore & tight gluts & hamstrings afterwards so I guess I'm now using those muscles!

E) Started using my foot levelers soft orthotics in my cycling shoes. I never got knee pain at spin & wear the orthotics in my gym shoes. I tend to pronate as all of me is long and hypermobile. Not sure if this has had an impact, but has been part of the mix


I probably could have made one tweak at a time to see what afftected what, but I was so impatient & didn't want to miss any more rides. I'm sure you all understand that!!

So all in all a few adjustments have added up to a much more enjoyable experience. The group I ride with have a 90k ride that my training programme has me riding home from, so I'm planning to do 100K tomorrow & don't feel stressed about maybe having to drop off - I wont need to! THANKS to you all for your help.:) :) :)

Lou