weight of bike and weight of rider

[LiquidFeet]

OK, all you not-newbies ... I am a relatively new rider and am ready to upgrade to a new bike. My present hardtail bike weighs 30 lbs. I weigh 135 lbs.

What do I need to know about 25 lb bikes and 30 lb bikes before I choose to plunk down lots of dollars on a new one (hardtail)? The only thing I know is a lighter bike bounces around a lot more than a heavier bike, especially when trucking downhill on rough terrain strewn with big rocks and roots. (This might not be the case if I were heavier.) There are no smooth trails where I ride; it's all rough.

The terrain I ride is mostly wooded singletracks, with lots of tight twisty-turny ups and downs, all full of rocks and roots. There are no nice smooth sandy parts here in New England. And there are precious few flat parts, but those don't interest me. I have not yet graduated to plunging off high boulders; I just maneuver my way up and down and around all the obstacles, and occasionally let go on a long downhill that affords some measure of clear vision into the distance.

So should I go with another 30 lb bike to maintain momentum and control, despite the power drain when climbing? Or get a lighter bike to help with the uphills and just learn to weight it with my 135 lbs however I can? Or what?

Any advice is appreciated. I've looked at bikes in the shops, and have not made any commitments yet. All I know is I want another hardtail.

[SadieKate]

Why do you want another hardtail? Just asking for the input.

[han-grrl]

Obviously there are advantages to buying a hardtail over a full suspension and vice versa

a few things to think about: once upon a time, there was NO suspension on bikes and people rode just fine. then front suspension came out then full, then it seems a lot of people are going back to hard tails or even rigid, partly for the simplicity, and partly because of loss of power in certain sections.

Another option would be buying a 29-er , a bike with 29 inch wheels. Because of the bigger wheels you can even get away with a rigid because they act a bit like suspension BUT 29ers are a bit hairier in some technical sections and you need to learn the handling of the bike.

Budget - buying a 25 pound bike can get very pricey very quickly. So set your budget and research within that limit.

Upgrading, with in your budget you can get a "cheaper bike" that might have some good things about it and then upgrade handlebars, seat post or wheels to make it lighter.

Personally I like the hard tail, even on technical because i feel i have more control over the bike, plus the simplicity, i don't like having all these little "parts" that need to be fixed regularly.

Another thing to think about is your riding style, and racing. If you plan on doing "regular" cross country races, investing in a lighter bike would be good. But if you plan on doing longer 8 or 24 hour races then a full suspension is definitely nicer on the body. when i did my 24 hour race i was very happy to have the full, but now i am back to the provincial cup circuit and i am riding the hardtail which is better to climb with (which there is lots).

Will the bike let you test ride the bike you are interested in? That's probably the best option. Test ride one versus the other and see which you like. because there is also the geomtry to think about, yes maybe you want to go with the lighter bike but if it doesn't "feel right" then it might not be the right bike for you.

anyway just throwing some thoughts your way...let us know what bike you are thinking of thinking about...

Han

[anakiwa]

I'm about your weight. I just started riding and got a Trek 6700WSD. I don't know the weight- I had guessed it was closer to 25 lbs, but I could be wrong. I find the bike to be really comfortable (though I'm used to a road bike so anything with 2+ inch wide tires is probably going to be comfortable for me). I don't know what the bike's actual weight is, but the price seemed to be quite reasonable.

[rocknrollgirl]

I weigh 115 lbs, and I have a 32 pound all mountain full suspension Marin, and a 25 lb Titus Racer X.

The Marin is better on the terrain in the NE. It is heavier for sure, but it takes the hits much better. The lighter bike does not stick as well over the rocks.

I did a race in the Daks this past Sunday and rode the Titus. The terrain was better suited to the Marin.

I upgraded to the Titus this year to race on,and although it is easier to climb on, I carry more momentum on the Marin, so sometimes I wonder if it does not all equal out in the end.

Lighter may not be your solution due to your location.

[Teddyparker]

Hey Liquid, I bought a new bike last year. I am about 15 pounds heavier than you and ride a 30+ pound full suspension. Thought I wanted another hardtail, but after riding a full suspension, I changed my mind. Although it is definitely heavier, I have less of a problem climbing the New England rocky hills than I thought I would. I also feel more comfortable descending on this bike. The full suspension is a lot easier on my aging bones too. By the way where do you ride? I also live on the North Shore.

[SalsaMTB]

I have not yet graduated to plunging off high boulders;

(Bolded added by me). Are you planning on trying this type of riding? If so, I would definitely stay away from a light race oriented XC bike. Go for an all mountain type bike.

Are there any shops in your area that would all you to demo a bike on the trails you ride? If so, that would be ideal.

[emily_in_nc]

Wow, this is a very interesting thread to me. I ride a 24-25 lb. Titus Racer X I bought used last year. I weigh 103 lbs. or so. I LOVE the bike and find it super comfy to ride compared to a hardtail, and way easier to get up the hills than my entry-level hardtail which weighs 32 lbs. HOWEVER, I have a really difficult time on single track, as even with new knobby tires, I feel like I am sliding all over the place. I attributed my problems to my newbieness to the mtb world & just general lack of skills riding the trails. I never thought about it having anything to do with the light weight of the bike and my own light weight. Is it so? Would I do better in rooty singletrack with switchbacks on my heavier hardtail? Liquidfeet, you really got me thinking here.... :confused:

Thanks!
Emily

[rocknrollgirl]

Emily...one way to find out. Break out the hardtail and give it a go again. Ride something that you ride regularly on your Titus.

[emily_in_nc]

Emily...one way to find out. Break out the hardtail and give it a go again. Ride something that you ride regularly on your Titus.

Good point....duh! I guess I should just try it; I am just stuck at work and wondered if this was a generally known factoid that light riders and light mountain bikes = sucking at rooty singletrack.

Always looking for excuses, I guess! :D

Emily

[bcipam]

The weight of the bike really has nothing to do with the control of the bike. Handling skills will take care of any issues. Obviously a lighter bike is easier to push up hills and definitely more desirable and costlier than a heavier bike.

A good front suspension fork will take alot of jolt out of the downhills but if you are looking for smooth ride, go full suspension. Sounds like that will take care of your problem. I ride a Santa Cruz Superlight - about 25 lbs. Smooth as glass going downhill but rides up a hardtail going up.

Nowadays with the type of aggressive riding most of us do you should be looking at a bike with at least 4" or more of travel. A light bike and proper technique will roll you right rocks and roots without problem.

You didn't mention the type of tires (and wheels) you ride with. Check with the LBS for the proper tire for your terrain. A good tire, designed for your trails, will help alot.

[bcipam]

A good suggestion for you - check out the Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Comp. 5' travel bike - all mountain, made fr everything. Comes with great components. No upgrades (unless you want bling) necessary!

[SalsaMTB]

Buidling on what BCI said...

Along with tires, for the girls who have f/s light bikes, if you feel like you're bouncing all over, make sure you have your shocks set up properly. If you never bottom out your shock, then you need to make an adjustment! We've had women come into the store with their bikes for a tuneup and I couldn't even compress the fork and rear shock. These were girls who were about 5 inches shorter than me and light weight. There is no way they were getting the benefit of full suspension.

Some bike shops don't take the time to teach you how to properly set up your bike. There should be a little sag in the suspension just sitting on it. After that, take it out for a few rides with a marker on your shock to see how much travel you get. If you don't get full travel during an aggressive ride, adjust it. You don't want to bottom out all the time, but you should be on occsaion. The suspension is definitely something you need to play around with to get it set to your preference. Take a pump to the trail and play with the settings.

[LiquidFeet]

Why do you want another hardtail? Just asking for the input.

Two reasons. Less expensive. Less buttons and whistles to repair and maintain over time.

At this point I don't THINK I'll be racing. I ride for personal improvement - do one more trail with less dabbing, go faster through one section, take that decline this time without brakes, make it up that loose incline all the way. That sort of thing. I'm not in a hurry.

When I watch videos of others riding, they are so often out west where the trails have long declines (not so in my neighborhood) and long passages of sandy trails not riddled with big pointy rocks. No wonder those people go fast. There's no way I could go fast on these trails around here, not the single tracks anyway. So do I need that back end suspension? I ride downhill with my butt off the seat anyway....

Yes, I need to try out full suspension on the trails before I decide for sure. The only person I know who has one is a tall guy, so his bike is not going to work for me. But is some shop going to let me take a bike out on these gnarly rocky trails??? I haven't even asked. I wonder if they will.

[LiquidFeet]

I weigh 115 lbs, and I have a 32 pound all mountain full suspension Marin, and a 25 lb Titus Racer X.

The Marin is better on the terrain in the NE. It is heavier for sure, but it takes the hits much better. The lighter bike does not stick as well over the rocks.

Lighter may not be your solution due to your location.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. When I ride full speed down a fairly straight New England rocky hill, I have my butt off the seat and back a bit beyond the saddle. I attempt to visualize my line, ignore the rocks on that line unless they are big enough to hit the chain ring, and just go. I keep my torso smooth on its path down the hill, and the bike bounces leftie-rightie beneath me. A lighter bike bounces MORE. A heavier bike, with its added momentum, bounces less. I've checked now, and know this from experience. Both are hardtails.

Would full suspension make a difference if my butt is up off the seat?

[dirtygirl1]

Hey Ladies ...

my 0.02 cents ...

Until this year I raced only on a hardtail ... and loved it. I was doing the shorter races though (2.5 hours) and the terrain wasn't that technical. On the more technical courses I was being thrown around a lot but came to thinkg of it as 'normal' because I trained, played, and raced all on my hard tail.

This year I switched to the distance racing and got a full suspension bike. i can't beleive the difference. I don't feel like I ever get thrown around ... and the extra weight is un-noticable.

When deciding which bike to purchase I would ask what your goals are and what type of riding (or racing) you enjoy.

Type of Terrain:
I beleive that if the terrain is technical you will go faster on a full suspension, even with the extra weight. you save so much energy by not having to use your legs as a suspension system ... you can use that energy to work harder on the climbs and will be faster overall. If the terrain is not techical you will likely go faster on the hard tail.

Type of riding/racing:
if you like to do longer races/rides, I reccomend a full suspension. I have found that I recover faster both during and after my ride on my full suspension. My body can focus on those nice round circles, breathing, eating and drinking ... and the bike takes care of the 'bumps' in the trail. It's a more enjoyable experience and a better way to go.

If you enjoy ripping it up and only do shorter rides, you won't notice the tole on your body so much - so it goes back to the type of terrain you enjoy rideing/racing.

My bikes are both Norco, both top of the line XC bikes (EXC 1.0 and Faze 1.0) so they are very comparable. I had to take my HT out for one lap at the 24 hour solo I did not too long ago and I could not BELEIVE the difference. I was sooo glad to get my FS back!

[SalsaMTB]

But is some shop going to let me take a bike out on these gnarly rocky trails??? I haven't even asked. I wonder if they will.

It's definitely a possibility. Our shop along with a few of our competitors have some demo bikes offered for people to try out before purchasing. It's definitely something with calling around about.

[wavedancer]

Yes, I need to try out full suspension on the trails before I decide for sure. The only person I know who has one is a tall guy, so his bike is not going to work for me. But is some shop going to let me take a bike out on these gnarly rocky trails??? I haven't even asked. I wonder if they will.

I'm getting into this conversation late, but if you still haven't decided on a bike (or even if you have), you may want to go down to Wompatuck this weekend for NEMBA-fest. Specialized and Trek and others will have bikes to demo on lots of singletrack. Should be a blast!

NEMBA Fest (http://www.mtbadventureseries.org/mtbadventure/NEMBAFest2007.htm)

[LiquidFeet]

I'm getting into this conversation late, but if you still haven't decided on a bike (or even if you have), you may want to go down to Wompatuck this weekend for NEMBA-fest. Specialized and Trek and others will have bikes to demo on lots of singletrack. Should be a blast![/URL]

Thanks, Wavemaster.
I had seen this mentioned some time ago but had decided not to go. I'm rethinking now. And no, I haven't bought a bike yet. In fact, I had a little accident on asphalt (my autopilot misfired and I did an endo for no apparent reason) so I've given myself some time to heal. It's time to get back on the bike, I guess.

[lph]

and... sorry if I'm pointing out the obvious here, but make sure you're not riding with too high tire pressure. Will make any bike go pinging off the rocks.

[DirtDiva]

Don't forget the impact geometry has on off road handling too. For example, that all mountain Marin will have slacker angles and probably more travel than the Racer X, not just greater poundage, so of course it goes downhill more competently. Suspension set-up can have quite an impact too. A fork that has adjustable travel can make climbing much easier when you wind it down, as can a rear shock with different settings to choose from. Climbing is generally easier with firmer suspension, descending generally easier with softer. I'm not knowledgeable enough to explain it very clearly, but you really can feel it when you rid different bikes, so do what you can to get some test rides!

(The real answer is that we all need one of every kind of bike. ;))

[Irulan]

and... sorry if I'm pointing out the obvious here, but make sure you're not riding with too high tire pressure. Will make any bike go pinging off the rocks.


excellent point, I was going to post that but you beat me to it.
Tire pressure makes a HUGE difference.

[han-grrl]

I can vouch for the effect the fork travel has on angle. My husband "pimped" my 2001 fuel with new components including the Reba fork. I was noticing that i was having trouble handling the bike, i thought it was me, but a bike mechanic friend said that the fork angle was affecting things and turned it to minimal travel and then it felt a bit better, but still not the same as my original fuel.

As for HT for FS bikes, i prefer HT more for simplicity sake. I agree that the weight difference can be minimal but there are more parts to break in a FS and things that go wrong. I also feel a ride better on the HT, i'm more involved in the riding, if that makes sense, but for longer races like my solo event, i prefered the FS to spare the body.

I have the Gary Fisher big sur (female version) and the trek fuel at the moment is much much heavier and quite noticeable. I find for the provincial cup races that i was working very very hard managing the bike, and not as hard with the lighter hard tail.

I love discussing HT vs FS especially with the ladies!

Smile

Hannah

[Voodoo Sally]

I too am a tried and true hardtail fan. I've tried both full suspension and hardtails for years, and I much prefer a hardtail. I like the simplicity, the clean look of the frame, and the "rider involvement", like han-grrl. I also am a weight-weenie. I like every thing on the bike to be light. Over the years I've found that the lighter, the better. As in, the longer you last on a ride and the less energy you use. That adds up.

I also live in eastern MA, and I ride my light hardtail on all the rocks & roots this region has. And it's OK. Body English and some care with picking a line and watching your speed help when descending in this stuff.