Faster?

[nafula]

Is it naturally going to happen as I ride more and more, getting stronger with each ride, and pushing myself a little bit more each time I ride, OR is it something you really have to work at?

I see the club rides in my area and would love to participate, but my average speed is not 17-19mph for the B group. Maybe on flats, but in Atlanta there is no such thing as flat.

My average last year (first season riding) was usually around 12mph. So far this season I'm sucking wind at 10-11mph.

Am I going to get faster naturally, or do I need to incorporate some sort of training?

[Kedwards]

Most people get faster by just riding more - up to a point. Whether you've reached that point or not, I don't know.
An organized plan for your training will certainly help. Adding some spin classes to get your legs moving faster might help. I also wouldn't discount group rides. Ask around at the shops, look on the internet, ask at the clubs ... chances are there are some group rides around that go at slower paces and focus either on beginners or people interest in a relaxed, social ride.

[RolliePollie]

I'm trying not to focus too much on speed and instead think about the fact that I'm getting a great workout and feeling more comfortable out on the road. But I do tend to almost get competetive with myself...I always want to go faster! The fastest average I've had on my local up-and-down hilly routes is 13.7. I find it really interesting that even if I feel crummy and sluggish one day, my average will still be close to 13.7. And if I'm feeling really strong and energetic, my average will still be 13.7! And believe me, the only thing keeping that average at 13.7 is all the downhills at 35+ !!!

However, I can empathize with your dilemma regarding club rides. I'd be very intimidated by a ride that is supposed to average 17-19. On the other hand, I also find that I can ride faster if I'm motivated by other riders. But on the other other hand, I got really down on myself after trying to do a group ride about six weeks ago. I just could not keep up and after being passed by everyone else, I ended up turning around early and heading back to the car all by myself. So I guess you have to be kind of realistic and strike a balance. Is there a group that goes a little slower? Maybe you could start there and evaluate how it goes? I don't really know much about this because I'm a new rider myself, but it seems like speed should go up with more time on the bike. Whether you're averaging 10 or 19, at least you're out there riding!

[RoadRaven]

I would recommend a ride where you try a little bit harder once a week.

Maybe even join the B group for a ride and just hold on as long as you can.
Then each week make your goal to hold on 5 minutes longer, or 1/2 a mile or a mile longer...

Riding with others slightly faster than you can assist you in your goals - as long as you realise that initially your might get dropped (this is where I am in my grade, but last week I was wrapped because instead of being dropped at my usual 5kms out, I hung on til 10kms... I was thrilled even though I had to ride the remaing 29 kms on my own!

Ride often, ride challenges you set yourself.

I also suggest you choose a course you ride often, and measure yourself on it every 3-5 weeks. Ride it as fast as you can each time, and slowly but surely your should begin to see improvements.

Remember, you are asking your body to make a metabolic change - for your heart to respond differently to stress - this takes time so be patient with yourself :)

[Jiffer]

RoadRaven always has good things to say. As a newbie myself, I can't really speak from experience, but I know with running and with what DH tells me about cycling, it's good to do at least one "speed workout" a week. (Which RoadRaven also suggested.) Do a shorter route than you might normally do and just go for it. Keep track of your time.

Do you sprint? If not, you might want to incorporate that into your riding. Standing and pumping hard in intervals can get your speed up. I do it at the beginning of climbs sometimes, or the middle of a climb even, after slowing down or stopping for a signal, at the bottom of a hill going into a flat when I want to keep my speed up. This works completely different muscles, so it might take a while to get used to it. The first time DH and I stood on a hill on our tandem, I could barely go five seconds and I was dying. But I'd suggest standing on the flat at first, if this is new to you, which it may not even be. I've been working on standing on my single and now I'm getting better at it on the tandem and hills. DH and I went for a tandem ride the other day and I am SO impressed with myself at how long I can stand going up hill now! :D

DH said that Lance Armstrong used to (or still does?) a training ride where he'd stand for a bit and sit for a bit ... throughout the entire ride. You might start with standing for 5 or 10 seconds, then sit for a minute, then stand, etc. As you are able, start adding length to your standing time.

I've yet to consider doing a group ride myself for the same reason. I did my "speed" workout today in fact. I went 12 miles, with hills, in 15.5, but I don't think that's going to cut it in a group. At least not the group I have the opportunity to ride with. It's possible I would do okay, but I'd rather work on my speed more and feel more confident before I try.

Oh ... gosh I'm just full of information! Working on hills is also a good way to make you faster on not only the hills, but on the flat. Anything that makes you work harder, makes you stronger, which makes you faster. (I get most of my riding tips from DH, who is a pretty fast rider. Came in 4th out of over 300 at a 10,400 foot elevation century recently.)

[indysteel]

I don't have any specific advice; I just thought I'd share what I've done over the last year--and what seems to have worked so far. I would note that I live in a generally flat area, ride a steel road bike and do almost all of my riding out in the country.

I don't have a formal training program. When I started riding last year, I concentrated more on bike handling and getting used to riding on the road. Increasing the average distance of my rides ended up being more important than speed. When I first started riding, my average speed seemed to be around 15-16. As the summer and fall wore on, that increased to between 16-17, at least for rides where I was consciously pushing myself. My average average speed, however, was closer to 16 than 17.

I continued to ride until the weather took a turn for the worse at the very end of December. Beginning in September, I supplemented my outdoor rides with about two spinning classes a week and continued to do that through the winter and early spring. I decided in December to get an HRM and to work on building a better aerobic base because when I first started to ride, I hadn't been exercising regularly for a while. So, for about six weeks, I kept my heartrate at or around 75% max. Once the six weeks were over, I increased my intensity and found myself getting more and more comfortable getting my heart rate up for longer and longer stretches. In addition to spinning, I took a lot of intensive yoga classes (which worked any number of things, including deep breathing) and did some light and somewhat sporadic weight lifting.

When I hit the road in March after the weather finally turned, I saw some degree of improvement, but it still kind of depended on the temperature and wind. We had a really windy spring, so I tried to embrace the wind as a "training partner," and specifically went out on days when it was pretty darn gusty. Those rides kind of sucked, but they really helped my strength and endurance. Beginning in mid April, I started riding a lot more and have since averaged about 175 miles a week. I also started going fairly regularly to a local training ride with a posted average speed for their B group of 18mph. I got dropped at first but started to hang on pretty regularly by mid-May. So far this year, I've also done a number of what I would consider (for this part of the country) hilly rides, including a century in Kentucky.

All those things put together have helped me increase my average speed. I wouldn't say dramatically, but an increase all the same. Our training ride averages--and we're working in a paceline on these--are now at the 20 mph mark. If I'm riding more loosely with a group, I'm averaging between between 18 and 19 mph and I've done a few solo rides recently where I've gotten over the 18 mph mark. I ride with a number of people who were stronger/faster than me when the year started but haven't been able to ride as much this year as I have. I'm starting to notice some differences in how long and how fast each of us can go now so I feel like my weekly mileage is starting to have a training effect, too. Hills were my nemesis last year and the biggest reason that I focused on building a better aerobic base over the winter. I noticed that my heartrate would just skyrocket on the steep climbs that we have in southern Indiana. From a strength perspective, I can get up the steeper stuff with less difficulty. I still blow up here and there, but I'm getting better at pacing myself.

I have to admit that I'm really pleased so far with how the year is going. It's fun to go faster, but speed in and of itself wasn't my goal. My primary motivation was to keep up with more and more of my friends at more and more rides. Many of them had been riding for a long time and I had no expectation that they'd slow down for me--at least not by much. I'm accomplishing that for the most part, and it's fun to feel more confident getting in with faster packs at club rides and staying there. I also like the feeling of going to the front of a paceline and holding my own. There is a downside to it though in that getting fixated on speed can take the fun out of it sometimes. I've learned to better ignore my speed on days when I just want to have fun or when I'm dealing with high wind, hills or cold temps. Same holds true on recovery days or days when I just feel kind of sluggish. I like pushing myself, but when it starts to take the joy out of riding--making me not want to ride--I try to take a deep breath and step away from the speedmeter.

Good luck.

K-

[Kano]

Well now I have a question.....

upping speed.....

Bike's faster, I'm stronger, and a hair lighter (I think some fell out, Raven, which compensates for it being longer, yes? :D ), but my average speed really hasn't improved this year over the later part of last year, at least not yet.

Hills still slow me WAY down, and according to DH, it takes a LOT of miles of 20+ mph to make up for that 1 - 1.5 miles of 3-6mph.

I'll go up a mile long hill at an occasional top speed of 8.5 mph.


(if a hill is a mile long, is it a mountain?)

Granted, this is lots faster than the 3.5 I was struggling to reach last year, but that 8.5 is rare and for just a few feet, and the 3.5 threatens on a fairly regular basis. 5-6 is more like something I can maintain for some distance on most of my hill climbs, and thrills the heck out of me for two reasons: it's a huge speed improvement AND I'm actually getting up hills I couldn't last year!

(last year, I rode up hills chanting to myself: "I hate hills, I hate hills, I hate hills." At some point I realized that it's all hills, and I needed to change that mantra to "I will not hate hills" and now I've decided they're something to celebrate!)

Then I read about those of you who seem to climb mountains like molehills. I used to feel bad when I read those posts, (not your faults, ladies!) until I started thinking things through and realized you've got more experience than I. I started seeing pictures of you, and you're much smaller than me. And I realized it didn't matter that I don't ride like you. YET. I'm a beginner. Once you who are my idols were beginners too, and probably struggled with many of the same issues I have and will continue to discover.

So anyway, while I know I'm getting stronger, and am able to generate more speed than I did a year ago, doesn't matter which of my two bikes I ride (I like my dainty blue road bike way better though for many reasons!) am I stuck with these 12-13mph average speeds until I drop those other 50# or so that I carry around on my rides?

Or is it that I'm doing more to seek out climbs now that I have figured out that I CAN do them, and that they will make me stronger? Would it make a difference if I would just find those flat stretches where I can simply go like the wind forever and avoid climbing like the plague, then I would have some of these amazing sounding average speeds?

Is THAT why y'all ladies who write about "only" 17-18mph averages are so fast? You stay away from hills of any sort, and like my bike, you "weigh air"? Or is it that you have fancy computers that shut down the "averager thingie" for your speed as soon as they sense a positive incline? (and if so, where can I get one of those?)

And now another question that just popped into my head: I'm not sure I've seen my "mountain goat idols" posting their speed info? Maybe you ladies avoid these discussions of "I go this fast" ??? Those of you who regularly do climbs like Mimi's amazing ride last weekend: if 17-18 are "only" averages, do you have "miserable" average speeds too?

Disclaimer: I'm PROUD of my speeds at this point -- big improvement over last year at this time. It took me about 800 miles of riding to get from about 8mph to 12-13mph. I think that my being "stuck" at this speed for the last almost 700 miles is the difference in where I ride now. The only reason I choose the word "miserable" to describe this is because of the descriptives that go with what I think of as truly amazing "onlies"!!!

Now, questions of my own asked, I do have some input on the original question:


"Is it naturally going to happen as I ride more and more, getting stronger with each ride, and pushing myself a little bit more each time I ride, OR is it something you really have to work at?"

I think about "the early days" often, and mention them to DH too: remember how we used to get so excited about 10mph on this or that stretch of road? I remember being hugely excited about having raised our average average to about 10 - 10.5 after a few months on our bikes. So yes, I do think time in the saddle, even without things like the interval training and sprinting that have been written about here, will help you build speed!

Karen in Boise

[indysteel]

Karen, speaking for myself, I don't focus much on my average speeds on climbing rides. They're just a whole other kettle of fish. I live in an area that allows for a lot of flat rides so I only compare apples to apples in determining how fast I'm generally going. If my average ride included hills, I think I'd try to avoid looking at my average speed unless I was comparing different passes over the same route. To measure my climbing "performance," I go more by how the climb or hill "feels," how steadily I paced myself, whether I felt in control, my heartrate, etc.

I would note however, that we don't have long, long climbs (over 2 miles) in my neck of the woods so I don't get to measure my speed or performance on the kind of climbs that our TE members in mountainous states do on a regular basis. I'd love to try though. For me, climbing is the thing I'd most like to be good at. The stuff around here is short and steep as a general rule and those walls of pavement really put the fear of God into me on some days. They take a certain fortitude that I'm just starting to acquire. I would gladly trade a fast ride on the flats for a strong climb.

I think any talk of average speed has to include the caveat that there's no real point in comparing yourself to another rider who might be riding totally different terrain, on a different type of bike, who is younger/older/thinner/heavier/better trained, etc., etc. There are too many variables. The better practice is to compare your own progress, in light of your own goals. For me, I didn't want to be the one bringing up the rear at every ride, so I've worked hard at improving my speed. It's not a goal in and of itself and every time I've gotten too worked up about it, I've had to keep my eye on the bigger picture: that riding my bike at any speed is more fun and better for me that sitting on my couch.

[mimitabby]

Karen
two things. I'd say my average (NOT on hills) is under 12mph. (read my earlier post on this thread)
on hills.... it is miserably slow as we've already discussed.
HOWEVER, my dh was saying to me; just wait those hills that have been bullying you around aren't going to be so bad anymore.
So I rode to work yesterday and going home there's this 8% grade that always bites me. My legs are stiff and sore from Saturday. I start going up the rise, my legs are screaming, but... what? I was done with the hill without the normal hystrionics!!! even sore; that big climb diminished my commute climb!

Raleighdon made a goal last year of some insane number of climbing miles. As a result, he is now faster all over. So as much as we hate the hills, they are our friends. The more hill work we can do, the faster we're going to get.

And a good lighter bike helps too. (Although Raleighdon was riding his 40 lb bike saturday and he was still circling me!)

[SouthernBelle]

If your average hasn't improved, even though you feel your skill has improved, perhaps it is because you are now tackling bigger hills?? If you are progressively tackling tougher routes, and hills you were afraid of before, your average might appear lower.

Um, or not.

[kabewyou]

Hi nafula: The Silver Comet trail starts in Smyrna and offers a round trip of 75 miles of flat trails. The first fifteen miles are pretty active and then it starts to get a bit quieter. During the weekends, particularly in the mornings, it is quite busy. There was a murder there last summer and the victim was a woman cyclist riding on a week day afternoon. Women tend to be a bit more cautious out there now; but many still ride on their own.

Southern Bicycle League has a listing of current group rides on it's site and does have some at average speeds less than 17 miles per hour. The website is www.bikesbl.org

North Atlanta Riding Club offers a variety of group rides. It costs about $60.00 per year to join, typically includes a jersey and several rides that are free due to your membership fee going towards it. Below is information about a ride they had last weekend. There are also some rides on the southern side of Atlanta that offer rolling easy inclines and little traffic. One is called 'Silk Sheets' and the name definitely fits.

This past weekend's NARC ride informatoin

Judy is organizing a Ladies intro road ride for this Saturday out of Rockmart. Our initial discussion indicated she'd be doing a 47mile route on the scenic Taylorsville Loop. Of course this will be a no-drop ride and good opportunity for the new riders to experience the wiles of west Georgia and our more seasoned experienced lady riders to come out and share there experiences. Lunch post ride at Frankie's.

More details later.

Please post any questions you may have or send me a PM. Don't worry if you think 47miles is too much, I'll likely add some shortcuts to the route, just in case. Judy asked me to ride sweep, so I'll be hanging at the back to help with stragglers or mechanicals.

For those that might not be familiar with NARC, the North Atlanta Riding Club, it is the largest active cycling club in Georgia with ~600 riders and a great ride program to support it's members.'

[Kano]

Karen, speaking for myself, I don't focus much on my average speeds on climbing rides. They're just a whole other kettle of fish.

Ain't THAT the truth!




I think any talk of average speed has to include the caveat that there's no real point in comparing yourself to another ride who might be riding totally different terrain, on a different type of bike, who is younger/older/thinner/heavier/better trained, etc., etc. There are too many variables.


Again -- I agree mightily! As simple as this idea should be, it took me a while to learn and to put it into practice. I think it was even more challenging to ride with people, even DH, who's been in this same boat all these years, and SEE the differences! I would struggle with things they made look easy and get horribly frustrated, mostly with myself, because DANG: what I've done to myself over the last 20-some years and how much fixing it's going to take! Until I could ACCEPT the knowledge that I'd only just gotten on this path and need to work at it for a while before I can get anywhere near where I want to be, well...

Fortunately, the positive results I mostly feel sure help!




The better practice is to compare your own progress, in light of your own goals. For me, I didn't want to be the one bringing up the rear at every ride, so I've worked hard at improving my speed. It's not a goal in and of itself and every time I've gotten too worked up about it, I've had to keep my eye on the bigger picture: that riding my bike at any speed is more fun and better for me that sitting on my couch.

Oh yes, bringing up the rear on every ride -- the first time I was NOT last was one heckuva day for me! And, it's pretty cool to be more in the middle this year, on the rare occasion that I've been able to ride with a group -- and like you say, it's all fun and better than sitting on the couch, except after the ride! Then it's nice to sit under the ceiling fan.....

Karen in Boise

[Kano]

Karen
two things. I'd say my average (NOT on hills) is under 12mph. (read my earlier post on this thread)

I remember reading you say that several times over the months. You got 'em too over there in the Seattle area: invisible hills! Those buggers are sneaky!



HOWEVER, my dh was saying to me; just wait those hills that have been bullying you around aren't going to be so bad anymore.
So I rode to work yesterday and going home there's this 8% grade that always bites me. My legs are stiff and sore from Saturday. I start going up the rise, my legs are screaming, but... what? I was done with the hill without the normal hystrionics!!! even sore; that big climb diminished my commute climb!
Raleighdon made a goal last year of some insane number of climbing miles. As a result, he is now faster all over. So as much as we hate the hills, they are our friends. The more hill work we can do, the faster we're going to get.

This is all very exciting -- the whole idea of climbing making ALL of our riding stronger, and that big hills make small hills more manageable, oh yippee, GREAT news!

Karen in Boise

[makbike]

I personally think the more your ride the stronger you become the faster you will go with time. Embrace where you are currently and set a reasonable goal for the week, month, and/or year.

I would also second, third, fourth the suggestions to ride with a group. Having someone to chase is a great motivational tool. I will often pick a group to follow, knowing I won't be able to ride with them for long. However, knowing they are out in front keeps me pumping away as I cruise along. Of course, see others ahead of me also gives me the drive to pick up the pace in an attempt to catch them and better yet pass them if at all possible (I'm a tad bit competitive).

Finally, don't get down on yourself - enjoy your time on your bike and remind yourself of the progress you have made thus far. Again, write down some goals, post them, review them and go for them.

Good luck and enjoy yourself!

[RoadRaven]

"Is it naturally going to happen as I ride more and more, getting stronger with each ride, and pushing myself a little bit more each time I ride, OR is it something you really have to work at?"


Despite being hairs lighter, Kano, you will have to work at it... and work and work and work... it just depends how much faster you want to be and if you have a "fastness level" at which you will be satisfied.

Initially improvements are quick to arrive, it feels easier, more comfortable, takes less effort to get somewhere more quickly. Once your body has adapted to the new demands, it settles in and if you want to go faster you have to push the level occasionally. I outlined a process for this in my first post (oh, and thank you Jiffer for your kind comment :o ).

The faster you want to go, the more wind resistence you face, therefore the more power your legs have to output in order to maintain or increase your speed. Think about how much faster you can go with no wind, as opposed to riding into a head wind... if you want to maintain the same speed as on a calm day you need to expend more energy...

Here's my example
I now time-trial on a flat course in good conditions at about 31kph. If I double my power output, I could ride at about 40kph, so to get where the level I want be (time-trialling at about 35kph), I need to increase my power output about 70% to achieve a 4-5kph increase in speed.

Now here's the rub... if I ride at 10kph and double my power output, I can ride at about 27-8kph... and increase of 17 kph!!!


On a hill its a matter of doing repetitions... start with two, then three, then five... and remember that each kilogram you lose off you ar your bike will make you 3 seconds faster on a 1km moderate climb :p
Hope that makes sense...

And to answer your question just one more time... Yes, sorry, but there is no way around it...

[indysteel]

I thought I'd share one of my prouder cycling moments of late. Just a bit of background. I started riding last summer, in part because I was dating someone who was an avid and strong cyclist. He made it look fun and I needed to get off my butt. Two bikes later, I had been bitten by the bug pretty badly and was really enjoying my new life as a "cyclist." But I wasn't in the best of shape and had a long road, so to speak, ahead of me.

My BF and I rode together a few times before the relationship, sadly, ended last fall. I knew he was pretty fast, so riding with me was a bit of an indulgence on his part. He'd ride with his friends in the morning and then we'd ride afterwards. I was more or less his "cool down," and I noted with some degree of chagrin that he marked the rides as "leisure" rather than "training" on Bikejournal.com True enough, but I hated seeing it in print.

Fast forward many months. My ex and I are still friends or, as I like to say, "friends light." We see one another at club rides and email one another about cycling related stuff. I begin to notice on Bikejournal that I was riding more miles than he was (although I have to admit that part of that is because he's also training for sprint tris). In any event, I have lots more miles and a fair amount of training under my belt than I did last summer. I've gotten faster and stronger, and he's made a few comments to that effect when we've seen each other at rides.

A few weeks ago, I showed up at a small group ride and much to my surprise, he and his best riding buddy--who races--were there too. While we've seen each other at (large) club rides, this was the first time since we had ended things that we were actually set to ride together. The day before, the three of us had done a rather tough climbing club ride and we were all just a little beat, but it was a beautiful day and I, for one, felt ready to go.

Anyway, the ride started with a warmup on our local MUT. Then we hit the road. We started the ride with about 15 people, all but four of whom were men. We got in a double paceline and the speeds starting ramping up until we were cruising around 24 mph. I even did a pull or two at that speed. Bit by bit, the group started to thin out. Three of the other women fell off as did some of the guys who are generally part of the faster packs at club rides.

But there I stayed. Forty-five miles later, I finished with the lead group, including my ex and his friend. I'm sure it wasn't the fastest of rides for them, but it was fast enough to illustrate that I've come a long way since last summer. While impressing him is not why I ride or ride hard, it was still a red letter day for me.

And P.S.: His Bikejournal entry listed it as a "training" ride.

[Geonz]

I think knowing your own psychology is critical here. What kind of situations motivate you, and what kinds of situations discourage you?

SOme people are seriously motivated by "going out and getting dropped." They get determined and scrabble their way into the mix. For other folks, that gets 'em going back home and staying there. And, of course, sometimes you have *some* control over that. I try to figure out what I'm going to do to keep from getting discouraged if X or Y happens, ahead of time. However, when it comes to bicycling... I was used to having to work twice as hard to get half as good, and so getting pretty good just working as hard as everybody else had me ecstatic and still surprises me (honest, *that's* why we were going so much faster than the advertised speed Monday... I couldn't believe I was going that fast... :o :o ) But for heaven's sake... it's just bicycle riding, not the Great Judgemetn Day :D )

[indysteel]

I think knowing your own psychology is critical here. What kind of situations motivate you, and what kinds of situations discourage you?

SOme people are seriously motivated by "going out and getting dropped." They get determined and scrabble their way into the mix. For other folks, that gets 'em going back home and staying there.

Good points. I got very discouraged last year when one of the women I had ridden successfully with most of the fall suddenly had me eating her dust after she got a new bike in December. Normally, I don't think the bike makes THAT big of difference, but in her case, she went from a really heavy, ill-fitting bike to a full carbon LeMond. I had a few really bad rides where getting left behind or struggling to keep up sent me home in tears. It had never felt the least bit competitive with her, but I was afraid that I'd lost my riding buddy. It sucked.

But what was first kind of discouraging, ultimately proved to be a big motivator. We don't ride as much together anymore because she works a lot of weekends and my guess is that she's still faster than me on any given day, but I'm more at peace with it because I'm pushed my own limits--and that's really what matters more. I can climb better than she can, too.

[smilingcat]

I'be been just skimming through some of the comments.

Like RoadRaven says, twice the srength doesn't make you go twice the speed. Speed and power is not one for one. To go twice the speed, you need about 4 times the strength/power.

So when you first start riding, going from 10mph to 15 mph doesn't take much. trying to improve from 15mph to 20mph will take a lot more. And if you want to go from 20 to 25MPH, you really need to train super hard and do things you don't want to.

It wasn't all that unusual for me to be chucking biscuits* on hill reps years ago. But that's how hard I needed to push to get my speed up to 26mph for two hour strech.

And there really isn't a substitute to hard training.

the other thing to remember about training on your own is that we all tend to work out on areas where we are good at and sloff off on areas we are not. This is where having a coach really helps. They make you practice and work out on your weak area.

If you are having problems on hills you need to do hill reps.

sorry for the bad news
smilingcat
* pull over to the side of the road and hrowing up all the meanwhile you keep cranking away

[missymaya]

I'm glad someone asked this question because I've been wanting to get faster but it's getting harder to do so. My avg is about 20 mph by myself, but I've been riding with a superfast group to gain speed (I usually get dropped but I've realized now that I've been getting dropped later and later). I need help with gaining strength on hills. I do fine on rollers but if I want to race (and most races are planned north of me) I need to do some climbs. Problem is, I live in Orlando so hills or anything resembling hills really don't exist. I know to train into the wind but there's very little wind right now. What do I do?

[RoadRaven]

But there I stayed. Forty-five miles later, I finished with the lead group, including my ex and his friend. I'm sure it wasn't the fastest ride of rides for them, but it was fast enough to illustrate that I've come a long way since last summer. While impressing him is not why I ride or ride hard, it was still a red letter day for me.
And P.S.: His Bikejournal entry listed it as a "training" ride.

This is such an awesome account Indy - excellent "real-life" example, and such a clear account of how pushing yourself consistently gives VERY satisfactory results!
:)

[Whip]

Great topic. Just want to jump on the "got to put in the work" theme.

While it is true that we can get a bit faster just by riding and keeping at it - it is truly amazing what just a little concentrated effort can do for your speed.

The trick to getting faster obviously is being able to ride harder for longer and one of the best ways to learn that is by doing one or two interval sessions a week. The interval session just below, at and above your LT will help you get more comfortable going harder and help you recover faster - which (at least to me) is one of the keys to being able to survive the constant surges and attacks in a fast group ride. I know everyone is training with Power Meters these days, but I can't afford one so I still use Heart Rate for my intervals. NOTHING helped me get faster ... uh, faster ... then intervals - including the hill repeats RoadRaven talked about ... AND...

Riding with people who are faster than me - especially if you can organize rides with people who are faster, but are committed to riding with you - and basically stopping every so often so you can catch up - not easy to find, but if you can do it, I recommend it because that way you don't just get dropped once, you get dropped and have to chase like twenty or more times. The trick is to keep chasing - don't give up. It took me a long time to listen to my husband who sounded like a broken record "ride with faster people, ride with faster people" but doing exactly that brought me from a 11-13 average to being able to do 21-24 in race and 15-19 on my own. It was really hard for me to get there, but it was so worth it.

Of course, if you do this kind of training, recovery is even more important - one or two monster efforts a week and then ride slow. A lot of coaches say that one of the biggest mistakes cyclists make is not going hard enough on hard days and not going easy enough on easy days.

[indysteel]

This is such an awesome account Indy - excellent "real-life" example, and such a clear account of how pushing yourself consistently gives VERY satisfactory results!
:)

Thanks. I always get a big :D :D :D :D thinking about that ride!

[Starfish]

The trick is to keep chasing - don't give up. It took me a long time to listen to my husband who sounded like a broken record "ride with faster people, ride with faster people" but doing exactly that brought me from a 11-13 average to being able to do 21-24 in race and 15-19 on my own. It was really hard for me to get there, but it was so worth it.

Of course, if you do this kind of training, recovery is even more important - one or two monster efforts a week and then ride slow. A lot of coaches say that one of the biggest mistakes cyclists make is not going hard enough on hard days and not going easy enough on easy days.

Wow, what impressive improvement. I hover around the 13 mph average, so this gives me a lot of hope.

A question: Is this kind of speed improvement compatible with training for longer distances with weekly loooong rides, or to see this kind of improvement, would I need to do it when I'm really not trying to increase my long rides much (to get in the recovery)?

[Whip]

Hi,

Okay, so I am not a trainer, and maybe some people with more long-distance experience could better answer this - BUT for what it is worth, I do think they are very compatible - maybe even both necessary together - because I imagine that training long and training hard complement each other. Here's a sample training week DURING TRAINING SEASON from my coach:

Monday-Recover (30minutes-1hour)
Tuesday-Invervals (1-1.5hours)
Wednesday-Intervals or Aerobic (1-1.5hours)
Thursday-Aerobic (2hours) or Intervals 1-1.5hours)
Friday-Recover (30minutes-1hour)
Saturday-RACE or Long Hard Ride (2-6hours)
Sunday-RACE or Long Aerobic Ride (2-6hours)

So basically, this plan tells me that I am both building base and distance while training for strength and speed.

In the winter - almost all rides are aerobic - and longer.

I have been out ridden by women who do not ride fast but are just so darn fit can keep going and going. I poop out in long rides, but when I first started riding, working on speed helped my comfort level and speed in centuries. My first century took 8.5 hours (flat) then I was able to do a century in 5 hours and 20 minutes (flat, too) - and that was while I was training for speed.

Again, I don't want to make a recommendation, but if I were just starting out, I might do one interval day during the week, one fast group ride on the weekend (even if it's longer) and then ride long on Sunday, rest Monday and Friday, and do medium aerobic rides Wednesday and Thursday. If you are new to intervals and such, it's good to give your body a chance to adjust and to avoid overtraining - even the one session a week will help.

[Starfish]

Whip, thanks. I read and read and read training books and so forth, but to hear actual examples from another woman really helps.

I am really encouraged that you are so fast now, and yet your first flat century was 8.5 hours. My first flat century was 8 hours, and I keep wondering if it could be possible to really, really improve.

I know we are all different, with different genetics, lifestyles, etc. But, your examples and personal improvements are very inspiring.

[Starfish]

Hey, after a spring of working on climbing, and after 2 weeks off the bike, I just went out and did 15 miles in under an hour. Cyclometer says 16.4 mph. That's fast for me. This was a flat ride, tailwind out, headwind back. A few stop signs. Not a TT, but I more or less hammered it, just stopping for 2 minutes halfway in to suck down a gel.

Kind of has me encouraged that if I can shake my extra 30 pounds, find a bike that isn't a 24 lb sport-tourer, and keep training, maybe I can get faster! :)

Sure do appreciate this forum and all the inspiration and knowledge. :)

[coyote]

Alright, I've been going the same route for the past 3 years, at pretty much the same time, on the same bike. It appeared to me that I've not been able to ride as fast as I had been. So, this thread appeared at the appropriate time. I've taken some of the things you all have suggested and my speed is increasing. I've changed up my route, and tried some sprints.

So, thanks for the info.

[7rider]

Riding with people who are faster than me - especially if you can organize rides with people who are faster, but are committed to riding with you - and basically stopping every so often so you can catch up - not easy to find, but if you can do it, I recommend it because that way you don't just get dropped once, you get dropped and have to chase like twenty or more times. The trick is to keep chasing - don't give up. It took me a long time to listen to my husband who sounded like a broken record "ride with faster people, ride with faster people" but doing exactly that brought me from a 11-13 average to being able to do 21-24 in race and 15-19 on my own. It was really hard for me to get there, but it was so worth it.


I'm going to be doing this very thing this Saturday...riding with the "a/b" riders on an organized ride where I WILL be dropped, and will have to give chase over and over again. My normal "C" group rides are around 17 mph. This Saturday ride will be over a longer (hillier) course at around 19. There are 2 or 3 re-group points, and they claim to be kind to the newbies. I figure, "Whatever doesn't kill me, only makes me stronger!"

[indysteel]

Whip and others, can any of you recommend a basic "intervals" routine? I have yet to train in that way but I keep thinking that I should. The group training rides I do on Tuesdays and Thursdays have been good for me as far as increasing speed and teaching paceline skills, but I'm not always in the mood for them. I'd like to switch one of the days out and do intervals instead, but the more something feels like "exercise" to me, the more unlikely that I'll do it or do it for long, so I have to keep it fun and kind of simple.....

Thanks.

K-

[nafula]

So reading through all these posts, I'm not sure if I'm encouraged, or discouraged.

20mph average seems so crazy, ridiculously fast, I honestly don't think I'd ever get there. I don't know if the area I live in is just not flat enough, or if I'm just that slow. At the most I can go a mile on flat ground. That's if I take one particular route and go all the way out to the very end of it. Otherwise, for me its up a hill, down a hill, around a small corner and up a hill again.

Is that normal for riding? Are there places that people don't have to go up a hill to ride?

I can make the long trek out the Silver Comet, which is an old train bed, so its flat. My speed averages 14-15mph out there.


And the other thing I'm not sure about is, do I really care enough to work that hard to get fast. Maybe I just don't have it in me.

Yep, definitely discouraged.

[smilingcat]

Oh dear,

I wasn't trying to discourage you nor anyone else here. 14/15MPH is good. 20MPH is very respectable. Its just a matter of perception and what you want to be doing. Maillotops (I think that's how I spell her user name here) said there will always be someone faster than you older than you stronger than you AND someone slower than you younger than you...

Enjoy the ride, enjoy the outdoor, and ride for the fun of it. Don't spend too much time agonizing about your ability. Enjoy what you are able to do.

Even in racing, if you take it way too seriously, it takes the fun out. It becomes WORK!!

So don't compare yourself to the racers here and compare yourself to yourself.

enjoy life, enjoy your ride,
Smilingcat

[indysteel]

I think any talk of average speed has to include the caveat that there's no real point in comparing yourself to another rider who might be riding totally different terrain, on a different type of bike, who is younger/older/thinner/heavier/better trained, etc., etc. There are too many variables. The better practice is to compare your own progress, in light of your own goals. For me, I didn't want to be the one bringing up the rear at every ride, so I've worked hard at improving my speed. It's not a goal in and of itself and every time I've gotten too worked up about it, I've had to keep my eye on the bigger picture: that riding my bike at any speed is more fun and better for me that sitting on my couch.

Nafula, I'll repeat my own caveat about averages. "Fast" and "slow" are relative terms. Ride and train the way you want to ride and train, i.e., the way that makes you feel good about exercising and riding a bike. I have a friend that describes herself as a "distance girl." She has no interest in how fast she goes, but I describe her as the strongest cyclist I know because she climbs like a goat and can go for miles on end. Could I "outrun" her on the flats? Maybe, but what would that prove?

Admittedly, I like getting faster, but it's just one way of measuring "progress." I'll emphasize again that for me it's not about the speed itself, but about increasing my fitness level, testing my limits and pushing myself. I have friends who I want to ride with or continue riding with who are faster than me so it's also a function of necessity. In any event, one of great things about cycling is that it's a flexible sport which allows each of us to individualize our goals to meet our lifestyle, fitness level, age, priorities, personality, interests, etc. There's no one way of approaching it, in my opinion, that's any more legitimate, more praiseworthy or laudable than another.

So please don't feel discouraged by whatever your average speed is relative to mine or anybody else's. Or if you do get discouraged--like I've been in the past--use it to motivate you if getting faster is a goal that you'd like to set for yourself. Otherwise, just have fun and keep riding.

[coyote]

nafula, it really is an individual thing. You really can't compare your mph to anyone elses. It is really only a tool to help us improve. I average about 11mph. I'm always suprised when I can get up to 20 - usually on an incline with a tail wind. This week I did some of the things the more experienced women suggested and my average is 13 right now. I do not think I'm a strong rider and I want to be stronger. So, I'm will to try some things out. There is talk about riding with A or B groups....I want to ride with the C group. If you love riding then do not worry about all of this talk of speed, just keep riding.

[Starfish]

Nafula, hey, wherever you're at for speed, if you're on your bike, it's all good.

I would like to get a little faster because (1) there is no club here, and the cyclists I know who are really nice are just WAY faster than me right now. Someday, I'd like to be able to ride with them for fun. And, (2) I aspire to doing some organized rides that have time cut-offs that I just currently can't make, so my desire for speed is just a desire to do some certain rides without getting swept up off the road by organizers.

Other than that, my 12 mph rides are super fun, and my being a little slower doesn't change the beauty of the eagles, deer, bear, elk or mountains. My slower speed doesn't reduce my feeling of peaceful well-being when I'm done, or my sense of independence and strength after time on the bike.

My biggest goal is to keep riding into my 80's or beyond. There is a lady I see around here on an old-style bike, with wrinkles & gray hair (the lady, not the bike!), and she bikes EVERYWHERE. She is always smiling. What a role model!

[nafula]

So I decided to not get discouraged. I realized there has to be some level of riding at which I can feel completely free. Its probably not going to be at working every day to get to 20mph. I would have to give up so much else to do it, and at that point, would I really be enjoying life?
I also realized I'm not going to feel free at not trying either. Giving up will not make me happy either.

So I went home last night, made my dinner and left it on the stove. Got on my bike and went out a rode one of the longest, steepest hills around me. Took my 5.5 minutes to go from bottom to top, and my heart rate got up to 191, which I believe is one beat from my max.

Then I did it again.

;)

[indysteel]

So I decided to not get discouraged. I realized there has to be some level of riding at which I can feel completely free. Its probably not going to be at working every day to get to 20mph. I would have to give up so much else to do it, and at that point, would I really be enjoying life?
I also realized I'm not going to feel free at not trying either. Giving up will not make me happy either.

So I went home last night, made my dinner and left it on the stove. Got on my bike and went out a rode one of the longest, steepest hills around me. Took my 5.5 minutes to go from bottom to top, and my heart rate got up to 191, which I believe is one beat from my max.

Then I did it again.

;)

Awesome. :) :) :) :)

[maillotpois]

And now another question that just popped into my head: I'm not sure I've seen my "mountain goat idols" posting their speed info? Maybe you ladies avoid these discussions of "I go this fast" ??? Those of you who regularly do climbs like Mimi's amazing ride last weekend: if 17-18 are "only" averages, do you have "miserable" average speeds too?


I don't think people who do the super long rides with a lot of climbing talk much about averages, because we know they really don't compute with most peoples' 50 mile and under or flat training rides. There's really no point in comparing the mph on long and/or very hilly rides - other than comparing one's own performances from one year to another. Every ride is different, are you working in a paceline, is it a ride where doing that is even all that helpful, etc.?

I have to say I don't think my averages are "miserable"! :) But i do like comparing from one year to another - which gets back to the OP about whether and how much one can improve one's own speed.

Point is - no one knows what terrain, conditions, whatever anyone is riding. Average MPH is basically worthless from one person to the next or one ride to the next - compare yourself to yourself.

[jobob]

And now another question that just popped into my head: I'm not sure I've seen my "mountain goat idols" posting their speed info? Maybe you ladies avoid these discussions of "I go this fast" ???

Not a mountain goat idol by any means, but yes, I tend to avoid these discussions. I only posted on the other "how fast am I in relation to you?" thread to provide the link to our previous discussion in that regard, to caution all the new folks as to how discouraging and downright unpleasant this topic can become.


Those of you who regularly do climbs like Mimi's amazing ride last weekend: if 17-18 are "only" averages, do you have "miserable" average speeds too?

Um, not even close, and as maillotpois can attest, I have some mighty crummy days from time to time.

You're more than welcome to check out my journal on bikejournal.com (I'm jobob there as well) if you want to see what I'm talking about.


So reading through all these posts, I'm not sure if I'm encouraged, or discouraged.
That's why I avoid these discussions. Sure, it's an ego boost to some, but it can be very discouraging to others.

But that said, there are a lot of good stories and suggestions in this thread.

I'm really glad you're not discouraged, nafula. Give it time, be patient with yourself. You'll get stronger. Trust me.

For what it's worth, I do care about my own speed, but just in relation to me. That's why I keep a journal, to track my own progress. I'm really pleased with how my speed has improved over time. I've had to work at it, and I'm beginning to see the results. The reason why I'm caring about my speed at this point in time is that I'm training for a moderately hilly double century in October, and while I'm reasonably confident I can make the 18 hour cutoff time, I'd just as soon be able to finish it in less time than that. :cool:

[Eden]

I have to agree with MP. My averages won't mean anything to anyone else. It's not meaningful to compare my race to your solo ride, my flat ride to your hilly one, etc so there isn't any reason to say anything. I think there are probably a lot of women who think they ride slow that are very strong. They read some of these posts and get discouraged and I don't feel the need to be part of that.
(oh and to give you an idea about how much of a difference conditions can make.... my 20 something mile zone 1/2 recovery ride was accomplished at a faster "average" speed than my 101 mile mountainous race this weekend - now which do you think was the harder, more challenging ride..... even comparing me to me we're still talking about apples and oranges)
Just be aware that when you are talking club rides many of them aren't classifing rides on the average ending speed of the ride - they are talking about the average pace of the group on flat ground in ideal conditions! You may fit nicely into a faster group than you think.

[indysteel]

That's precisely why I avoid these discussions. Sure, it's an ego boost to some, but it can be very discouraging to others.

Having just read through that awful thread from last fall, I understand that average speed discussions can get ugly, especially when someone makes a horribly harsh and unfair comment about riders at a certain pace being slow. That comment was certainly neither helpful nor kind. However, the OP in this thread asked about getting faster, which in my mind, is a legitimate goal in cycling and one that warrants a discussion. Although average speeds have factored into the discussion, both I and others have repeatedly emphasized that comparing respective averages is less than helpful on a number of levels. The tone of the discussion has otherwise been, in my opinion, encouraging, helpful and positive. Not that you're pointing fingers, but I certainly didn't share my own experiences to get an ego boost.

The fact is that whether we're discussing average speeds, a race or ride report or climbing feet tallies, there's always a risk that someone will inadvertently end up feeling discouraged because they perceive that they don't measure up. While certain discussions more than others inherently invite such less-than-helpful comparisons, it's ultimately up to each of us to choose our inner cheerleader over our inner critic and to look to those we perceive as "better" in some way as a source of inspiration rather than a source of shame.

[maillotpois]

.... it's ultimately up to each of us to choose our inner cheerleader over our inner critic and to look to those we perceive as "better" in some way as a source of inspiration rather than a source of shame.

That is EXCELLENT. Very well said.




You're more than welcome to check out my journal on bikejournal.com (I'm jobob there as well) if you want to see what I'm talking about.


Ditto. (Except for the part about being jobob. I'm still maillotpois... :D )

[indysteel]

Maillotpois, I just read a few of your bikejournal entries. I love reading ride reports from other parts of the country, especially from CA, because the terrain is SO different from Indiana. At least in central Indiana, we've got nothing but flat country roads for most part. Doing a ride with even 5k of climbing is a challenge--in more ways than one. Given how flat it is, it's hard to get really pumped from a ride, which is another reason I think I focus on getting faster. As a friend of mine says, it's hard to give a "hell ya" after passing yet another cornfield.

Anyway, your rides look amazing. I would love--or at least I think I would--to live someplace that had some really good, long climbs. I just haven't been able to test myself in that way. Do you ever just want some flatlands? Can we trade for a summer? :D

K-

[maillotpois]

:D Anyone who has ridden with me knows I love the flats!! I am a big power rider who likes nothing more than flat roads or shallow rollers and a lot of speed. Sure, I'll trade you for a bit!!

My deal is long, sustained hills are my weak point, so I really try to do a lot of them. Sick.

[smilingcat]

thank you thank you and thank you to:
maillotpois, indysteel, eden and few others for saying it succinctly and to the point.

Now lets just get back to riding and enjoy the ride ;)
Smilingcat

[Kano]

I've enjoyed this version of "speed"

It's been an interesting and informative series of posts -- pretty much all constructive! It appears to me that the answer to that original question of "is it riding, or is it special training to get faster" all boils down to my husband's favorite annoying answer to an either/or question:


YES

The more we ride, the stronger and faster we get, and the more we challenge ourselves when we ride, the stronger and ultimately faster we get!

(and I've decided that carrying around the extra me is making me so strong that I'm going to positively amaze myself someday when it's gone!)



Sarah -- l think I'm learning to be like you when it comes to those long sustained climbs. Can't do 'em well, so I'm torturing myself with them! And we don't want to call that "sick" -- that's just too danged negative. Let's see how "determined" fits instead?

Karen in Boise

[Whip]

Whip and others, can any of you recommend a basic "intervals" routine?

K-

Indysteel,

That's a great question because there are all kinds of intervals - and even if it's not about speed, intervals can make a ride more interesting and give you something to make you feel like you earned that latte (or at least for me anyway, because a ride isn't a ride if it doesn't end with coffee!)

Basically, an interval can be anything that is on-off-on-off-on-off-on-latte.

The requirement is only that it is basically the same thing each on cycle - so if you are doing 5 minute intervals at LT, the next "on" is also a five minute interval at LT - UNLESS you are doing interval ladders which can be anything that builds up and then back down - like 30 sec on/30 sec off; 1 min on/1 min off; on up the ladder and then back down.

So, at thise point I feel like mentioning that there are no rules - there are all kinds of intervals - and the main thing would be to add variety and a structured way to work a little harder - NOT to drive yourself crazy, because it is possible to drive yourself bonkers trying to follow some plan and get it all right and you end up injured and burned out which is just not necessary - so in my opinion, and if you are not shooting for the Olympic Cycling Team - I think you are really wise in requesting a simple, basic interval routine.

Here are some of the intervals I do: (AND PER YOUR QUESTION - I think LT's are the most basic, easy to perform, can be done anywhere, kind of interval - I included the others in case you want to try something else at some point.

1. Lactate Threshold Intervals (LT's) -

20-30 minutes Warm-Up
3 minutes at Lactate Threshold Heart Rate
5 minutes recover completely
3 minutes at LT
5 minutes recovery
3 minutes at LT
Cool Down - 10-20 minutes

Each week you can lengthen the work interval a bit (3 minutes, 5 minutes, 7 minutes, 10 minutes, 12 minutes)

You can also you drop the recovery time in between intervals to 3 minutes - so you are training yourself to recover faster by allowing yourself to fully recover than hitting it again. My suggestion would be to ignore the five minutes in between at first and just ride very, very easy until you can totally talk again, and drink and breathe easy - even if it takes 10 minutes. Then start the next interval.

Some people never have you do long LT intervals, some people do very long (20-30 minute LT intervals). A time trial is a 25-mile LT interval - or whatever the distance is.

If you don't have a heart rate monitor - LT is where it's hard to talk, but you're not gasping major air. However, it's above just heavy breathing (which is also hard to talk) - should be uncomfortable, but you are not out of control, maybe on the verge of getting close to losing control :)

Here are some other types of intervals:

2. Sprint Intervals --Choose a gear you can turn over quickly. Quickly start the sprint with max effort and after you hit speed, drop into a gear that is one harder to finish the sprint. Sprint for 15 or 20 seconds. Recover for two minutes in between - do four to six. This should be maximum effort.

3. Aenarobic Power Intervals (APs) ---- Okay, so seriously, I cried once when I did these - don't do them until late spring or until you have experience in LT intervals - they wipe you out and you will redline and most coaches say you should only redline rarely. AP efforts are only 1 minute each, but it should be the worst minute of your life - you should be praying to quit at 40 seconds and want to scream out the last five. You recover 2 to 3 minutes between efforts. Start off slightly less than max effort but still hard. Choose a pretty hard gear - the opposite of sprinting - you should be able to turn the pedals, but it should be work. Go as hard as you can possibly go. It really helps to do these on a trainer with someone else - or at least have someone yell at you!

4. VO2 Max Intervals --- This require commitment too, and are into the red zone, but are longer than APs - so you measure the effort out over 3 minutes instead of 1 minute. Maybe an easier gear.

5. Hill Repeats - Can be done as full out efforts or in a hard gear as strength intervals. Can also be done sitting or standing or alternating. Can be done as LT intervals. So pick your target heart rate and ride for the predetermined amount of time in that zone then go back down and recover and repeat. If you are doing it as strength intervals, then you choose a gear you can turn between 50-60 rpm - if you don't have a computer, just hard and slow - don't worry about heart rate.

Again, there are a lot of ways to do intervals, but here are the keys:

1. At least 3 intervals of whatever you are doing.
2. The interval starts when the TIME starts NOT when your heart rate hits the right zone. So, the first part of any interval, your heart rate will be lower than the zone you are aiming for.
3. Recover fully in between until later in the season, then some gains can be made by shortening the recovery time in between.

The coolest thing about doing intervals for me has been to see how much quicker I recover. When I started, I couldn't recover in between - I had to literally stop pedaling to get my heart rate down - but after awhile (and after the overtraining incident) - my heart rate started to drop quickly after an effort. That was actually the first tangible proof I had that I was getting fitter.

The only intervals I did when I started were LT's - the others I do for racing - and likely wouldn't do if I didn't race.

I'm so excited to hear how you like doing intervals!!!!

Whip

P.S. I do want to recommend a couple of great resources that you likely have heard of - I suggest them not necessarily to follow the training plans outlined, but more as good descriptions of different kinds of intervals if you want info from experts who actually know what they are talking about:

1. Cyclist's Training Bible - Joel Friel - I give the caveat of not trying to follow the whole book, just to gather background. I had a bad experience of getting overtrained, overwhelmed and injured - can you tell :) when I first started cycling and was totally riding over my ability. Now I firmly believe that less is more.

2. Heart Rate Monitor Training Book - fun workouts at varying intensity levels - even has Recovery Intervals which are super for relaxing and flushing out the legs.

3. For the very, very, very, very serious, Dr. Arnie Baker's High Intensity Training - eBook available Roadbikerider.com - or he has his own web site.

4. Anything by Ed Burke, Chris Carmichael or even The Fit Chick in Bicycling Magazine - she typically outlines an interval workout in her column.

[indysteel]

Whip, in pulling this thread up to link in another, more recent, thread on getting faster, I noticed the helpful information you posted on intervals. I must have missed it when you first posted it. Thank you. It's most helpful.

I'd like to work them into my routine, although I think I end up doing them on some level during training rides because we inevitably have points on the course where the speed picks up or there's an incline or a surge of some kind.

Again, thank you. Sorry I'm just getting around to reading it!

K-

[Whip]

Whip, in pulling this thread up to link in another, more recent, thread on getting faster, I noticed the helpful information you posted on intervals. I must have missed it when you first posted it. Thank you. It's most helpful.

I'd like to work them into my routine, although I think I end up doing them on some level during training rides because we inevitably have points on the course where the speed picks up or there's an incline or a surge of some kind.

Again, thank you. Sorry I'm just getting around to reading it!

K-

You are so welcome! I love talking about training :)