RMR Testing

[Running Mommy]

So I had my RMR (resting metabolic rate) tested this morning. It turns out I have a pretty high metabolism afterall! Go FIGURE?!
Anyway, the test was pretty cool. First off I had to fast for 8-12 hours, so they had me in for the test at o dark thrity this morning- 5:30 am. UGH!!
I am NOT a morning person!
The test uses a mask that I already have ( I've had my vo2 max tested before) so I just needed to be hooked up to the machine. They put me in a quiet room and had me sit with my feet up. You have to make sure that no air is escaping through the sides of the mask, so that took some adjusting. Then they hooked it up to a machine and I had to sit still and relax for about 5-10 minutes and let the machine do it's thing. Oh and you have to breathe through your mouth only. I must say that I'm not a claustrophobic person but this mask turned me in to one! UGH!
When all was said and done my RMR is 2648 cals. So to lose weight I should eat in a range of no less than 1700 cals and no more than 2000 a day.
I've actually been eating too little! As I usually eat between 1200-1500 a day.
I also had my body fat tested in a bod pod and that was interesting. You have to go in your swim suit and swim cap. I'm 29.8% bf.. UGH!!
Oh and another interesting # I got from all of this was that I have 123 lbs of muscle mass!! That is A LOT of muscle on a 5' 1" frame!!
So anyway, it was very interesting info thats for sure. Now I need to put it to good use!
The nutritionist noticed a few things in my food journal that I need to change. I eat too much fruit. She suspects that my body has gotten really good at burning sugar, so she wants me to watch the fruit. But I need to add more vegees and lean protein. She said my other carbs are fine. Oh- and I eat those little frozen lean cuisine or weight watcher meals sometimes when I'm too lazy to cook. She did not like that at all! oops! ;)
Anyway, hopefully I can put all this info together to help me to shed some lb's! I'm getting tired of being in the Athena class at races!!

[five one]

I've been interested in doing this myself, both RMR and body fat. Did you arrange this through your nutritionist or doctor?

I'm at a place where I can't get the fat loss to kick in. I don't really care about the number on the scale. I eat well, ride a lot, lift weights. I know I'll never be thin. Not my body type. Like you, I have a lot of muscle, but the layer of "insulation" over it simply does not budge. I was always the classic pear shape, but that's changed with menopause and the possibility (or should I say likelihood?) of visceral abdominal fat is worrisome. It's probably time to see a professional to tell me what I already know. At this point, having some test results might be the push I need to turn things around.

Thanks for reporting your experience.

[RoadRaven]

This is really interesting to read, thanks RM

I didn't even know this kind of test could be done! I have had my VO2max tested, and for me even that test was claustrophobic, even though I was on the bike! I'm going to ask our local sports lab if they do this (I might have to wait til a visit to one of the bigger cities to get this done).

As for the body fat test - very interesting too - again, I didn't know how this was done. However, the thought of me in a swimsuit is a little bit scarey. I may not be brave enough... :p

five one... my partner and I have been experimenting with something that was very successful for another member of our cycle club. We have eliminated bread from our diet, consequently eating large quantities of rice now. We had both plateued in our weight loss, and its working for us...

[five one]

five one... my partner and I have been experimenting with something that was very successful for another member of our cycle club. We have eliminated bread from our diet, consequently eating large quantities of rice now. We had both plateued in our weight loss, and its working for us...

Ah...if only it were as simple as the elimination of a particular food. Maybe it is, but I eat very little bread as it is, so that's not the magic pill for me. I'm glad to hear it's working for you though. Step one will be to keep a more diligent food journal and see if I can spot a trend. I'd need to do that before seeing a nutritionist anyway. I suspect that like Denise, I'm probably not eating enough calories in the course of a day. I (mostly ;) ) eat well and the thought of eating more is kind of scary. I'll have to experiment a bit with that. I know it's worked for others.

Thanks for the input. Wishing you continued good luck in your weight loss efforts.

[Running Mommy]

Five one- I had it done at a sports/ rehab place that does this kind of thing. They actually do a lot of different things from consulting athletes on performance, to weight loss, to sports rehab.
And the best part is my insurance is paying for it because my BMI falls in the "obese" range. :mad: Now personally I HATE the BMI charts and think they are a joke, but they worked in my favor this time. Because I'm considered "obese" they will pay for the referral to the nutritionist and what they consider a "reasonable weight loss plan that is medically supervised".
I had to jump through some hoops to get things approved, but I'm glad I did.

As for eleminating certain foods... I have heard that certain foods just don't "agree" with our bodies, and that if you can figure out which foods those are it will help to shed the lb's.
Personally I find that ANYTHING with high fructose corn syrup in it sends me into a tailspin! So I try to stay away from it. But I did find it interesting that the nutritionist thinks I'm eating too much fruit. She said I was just trading one sugar for another. Granted fruit does have a lot of nutrients and is much better for you, but it still has a lot of natural sugars.

[five one]

Agreed that BMI is a joke. Anything that takes only your height and weight without factoring in fat/lean ratio isn't giving you anything you can work with. My BMI puts me in the overweight category. You wouldn't think so to look at me. When I was about six years old, one of my grandmothers referred to me as "sturdy". Yep, that's me - sturdy. And I'm fine with that, but I'd like my waistline back and get rid of any visceral fat before it becomes a real problem.

I'm due for a physical, so I'm going to bring up this whole issue and see where it leads. I have a feeling I'd be paying out of pocket for any testing, but that's fine.

Thanks for the info, RM.

[Zen]

... But I did find it interesting that the nutritionist thinks I'm eating too much fruit. She said I was just trading one sugar for another. Granted fruit does have a lot of nutrients and is much better for you, but it still has a lot of natural sugars.

I think "just trading one sugar for another" is a bit simplistic. Different sugars have different structures. Carbohydrates are sugars but they're the body's main fuel.
I think it also depends on when you eat those sugars.

What's wrong with the Lean cuisine? Most diet entrees are exploding with sodium but the Lean Cuisine Spa entrees look OK to me.

[rabidgirl]

This is all quite interesting. I never had to fight off the weight until recently. Then, it became seriously difficult to lose anything, and sometimes I would even gain more weight when dieting. No matter how long or hard I trained (I was up to running 15 miles regularly and still not losing weight) the weight never changed. I am no expert, but here's what I have learned after much research and experimentation:

Over the past year, I have done a good bit of reading and changed my whole nutrition plan. That change has been incredible simple and successful. I went from 165# and 30% body fat to 125# and 16% body fat in 6 months, without horrendous workouts. The key was eating clean, unprocessed food, and monitoring when I ate certain foods. What was different? I switched to managing my insulin.

Here's the thing: insulin promotes the release of human growth hormone (useful for tissue repair & recovery). It also helps turns carbs in glycogen (energy stored in the muscle, but not fat) & fat. So, you eat simple sugars (fruit or junk candy or high fructose corn syrup), your body releases huge amounts of insulin in response to the sugar influx, and the sugars then become builders, glycogen, or fat... all depending on what's needed at the time. If you've been lfting or biking and immediately have some simple sugars, they will become glycogen & aid in recovery and stimulate relase of HGH. Eat too much sugar, and it turns into fat. Continue the overdosing and you get insulin resistance, diabetes, & obesity. That's why your nutritionist poo-poo'ed the fruit as similar to high fructose corn syrup; the sugar in fruit is fructose and is treated similarly by the body. By eating whole, unprocessed complex carbs, the sugar is released slowly into the bloodstream and insulin is only released in small amounts over a much longer timeframe. Less of the carbs are converted into fat.


The second issue is processed food... it is highly concentrated forms of food items that were at some point fine to eat when they were whole. However, the processing has removed to fiber, moisture, minerals, vitamins, etc that made the food "healthy". Also, who knows what junk has been purposefully (or mistakenly) pumped into processed food. Ever hear of the story where a manufacturer lied on their nutrition label? I believe it was an ice cream company who horribly falsified the sugar & fat content. That's why prepared frozen meals aren't the best choice.

Notice that I never mentioned fat. Sure, I eat lean cuts of meat (to include chicken, tuna, steak, and turkey), but I don't even count the amount of fat that I eat. I cook in olive oil, have oil & vinegar on my salad, and I even eat peanut butter (lots of it) to get extra fat in my diet. Fat is not a concern, so long as it is ingested in reasonable amounts.

I also never mentioned eating less. I eat enough to sustain my energy demands (right now it's 6 meals a day, with about 4oz of lean protein and 20g of complex carbs). RMR testing is incredibly beneficial here. However, I have found some reasonable estimators online (there's even one on the Friel training website), and then I add in the calories consumed during my workouts. If you cut your calories consumed, you slow your metabolism. Slowing the metabolism means that your body becomes greedy, and converts a larger portion of the food you eat into fat. Over eat just a few times with a damaged metabolism and the fat just piles on. You ABSOLUTELY must eat enough food to support your needs. Cutting calories more than 15% in an effort to lose weight poses a great risk for slowing the metabolism.

Of course, all of this goes along with the disclaimer that this may not work for all people... I have figured out that I am what is termed "carb sensitive". This protocol has worked exceptionally well for me.

Sorry this is so long, I just wish we were all taught this in school.

[equus123]

I 150% agree with you on the school thing. The garbage we learn has nothing to do with the real world or life!!! :confused:


I just wanted to say - excellent post. Very informative and educational. Thank you :)

[Running Mommy]

You sound just like me!!
Please give me an example of what you eat on any given day.

What you said is in line with the nutritionist. And I know that in the past when I cut down on the sugars and eat just a lot of lean protein and veggies with a sprinkle of whole grain carbs thrown in I lose weight. And I'm not a fat- o- phobe either. I eat peanut butter on whole grain toast for breakfast, and I also cook with olive oil.

I am very interested in this! It sounds like you found success just by eating the right thing at the right time. So that just seals the deal for me. I have to break the sugar cycle!!

[Jones]

Runningmommy and rapid,
Thank you both for the great posts. I know I need to break the sugar cycle.
I would love to see a sample menu for a day or even a few days, and what about spices? Can we use any that we like so long as they are whole and unprocessed or maybe just dried?
I have been overweight since I quit smoking 5 years ago and this year decided I really wanted to take care of the weight issue. Total I wanted to lose 70lbs and the first 25 pounds just fell away but now I can't seem to shift even an ounce. I know I have cheated several times but the odd thing is when I allow my self to have a piece of cake at special events, I turn into a sugar craving monster. All sweets seem to become even harder to resist and then I binge on sugar and don't want any thing else. Does this ever happen to anyone else?
Jones

[rabidgirl]

I have included what I eat daily below. The disclaimer is this: I've being working on it for a year now. It is the minimal calories my body can handle without freaking out. I am 5'8", 125# and 16% body fat. This diet supports my body at my activity level. I lift very intensely 2 times a week and bike about 10-12 hours a week at varying intensities. I think I actually need to bump myself up in total intake, as I have been very hungry since increasing my activity level (started a more endurance based plan two weeks ago).

On rest days, I eat 36g of protein and 1 to 2 cups of fiberous veggies 6 times daily. My first meal includes 1/4 cup of old fashioned oatmeal.

On workout days I eat 30g of protein 6 times daily and 25g of carbs with the first four meals. I add in 1 to 2 cups of fiberous veggies anytime.

Fiberous veggies are lettuce, green beans, broccoli, yellow squash, zucchini, asparagus, peppers, onion, or tomatoes.

Carbs are sweet potato, whole long grain brown rice (not precooked in any way), apples, banana, pineapple, strawberries, raspberries, and blueberries.

Proteins are egg whites, 99% lean ground turkey, 95% lean ground beef, chicken breast, tuna in water, sirloin steak (sometime a t-bone), and rarely an extra lean pork loin.

I do drink protein shakes to stay on track when in a time pinch. I use the Dymatize Elite Whey... 1 scoop with carbs or 1.5 scoops when I'm not eating carbs.

To fend off hunger, I will sometimes eat 10 plain almonds or have 1 - 2 TBS of natural peanut butter.

I eat first thing in the morning and immediately after workouts. That means I have to time my workouts such that it is about 45 min. after I eat.

Once every week or two I go out and splurge on one meal. I may have a few slices of pizza or spaghetti... whatever. But, it is just once that day, and then back in line. That single calorie push keeps my metabolism from slowing down. I limit my condiments to lite soy sauce, worstcheshire (unknown spelling), salsa (homemade), KC Masterpiece Low Calorie BBQ sauce (a real treat), tabasco sauce, and Ms. Dash products. Garlic and pepper are fine. Sodium is something I try not to over indulge in. But, as I tell my cohorts... better to put some salt on your food & drink extra water than cheat & ruin the whole diet.

Oh.... I do use the Gu packs on my rides of 2 hours or more. I have one every 45 minutes. I do not count them anywhere in my diet.

I drink AT LEAST a gallon of water (mixed with Crystal Light is ok) every day. No caffeine; nothing else. Just water.

I guess that's about it. Feel free to ask any additional questions...

[teigyr]

Running Mommy,

Since you've been tested and are doing a different type of diet, have you noticed a difference? I've been thinking a LOT about the testing and it makes sense. My guess is you are performing better due to having adequate nutrition but I wanted to ask :D

[Running Mommy]

Thanks to the recomendations of the nutritionist and rabidgirl I have been consuming a LOT less sugar, and I am really starting to see and feel a change.
I haven't yet had the nerve to get on the scale. I was out of town the last 3 weekends, so I don't feel like I have had enough consecutive "clean eating " days to have made a huge difference. But I have been a lot more aware of what I have been eating. I am also logging my food in fitday again. I was amazed to see that I was only eating around 1300 cals a day. I just think it was to little for my body based on my activity level.
Even when we were out I tried to watch it, and I had a lot of salads with grilled chicken and no dressing- or just oil and vinegar. Tony is trying to lose weight as well, so it's easier when you have a spouse right there with you. I did have some sugar at legoland. I just couldn't resist the granny smith apple fries. YUM! But I paid the price later when I felt like crud!
But like I said, I am feeling better, more energy, sleeping better etc.
Oh- and I wore a pair of shorts today that previously were too tight and uncomfortable! And I wore them to the gym for my personal training session... So I was feeling pretty dang smug today! :D
Oh- and that is another thing... I have really turned my training around. I am now with a trainer twice a week working on upper body and core. We do legs too, but I kick butt on the leg machines. He laughs that my legs are so strong- yet ,my arms aren't... OY! sigh...:o

[Blueberry]

Wow! Glad things are going well:D :D

You are SUCH an inspiration:o :o

[teigyr]

I was amazed to see that I was only eating around 1300 cals a day. I just think it was to little for my body based on my activity level.


:eek:

Yeah, that'd be low even at a fraction of your activity level. That is such a great lesson to learn, I am so amazed your body could function at all.

Right on re the shorts :D That is such a fantastic feeling. I bet you anything it'll all start to come together and your energy levels/training will be off the charts.

Anyway, just wow. I've used your example to friends who are trying to lose weight and do severe diets and can't figure out why it isn't working. They aren't doing near the activity level (if any at all) but sometimes it's a matter of getting tested and having someone analyze what you're eating.

[Tri Girl]

OK- I've got a stupid question, and this is really long, but here goes:

I guess I consider myself to be very knowledgeable on working out and the science of training. Not boasting, just giving background here: I've done an IM, and many marathons (and other things), and feel very confident that my physical training is exactly where it needs to be. Physical training: I do well :) - nutrition training: I do poorly :( . When training for my IM last summer, I started reading a lot more about nutrition, but didn't do much about it. Now I'm ready to clean my diet up for good.

Brief background: I lost a lot of weight with WW a couple years ago (which was fine), but I don't think it really taught me to eat better. It taught me to count points. Now that I've put back on 25 lbs (I lost 60 altogether) and am endurance athlete, I need to re-think my whole nutritional plan. I think part of what I put back on is muscle mass. I was down to a size 2/4 (which was realistically way too small for me even tho I'm only 5'3"- I looked way too skinny), and I don't want to be that small again because it would mean losing muscle in my butt/thighs that is my powerhouse now.
I was reading this thread the other day and was very interested in what you ladies were saying. Thanks for all the wisdom, rabidgirl. Because of what I've been reading in books and online, I've been adding more protein in my diet (about 130-150g a day). I've been really trying to clean up my diet and eliminate most sugar (it's like crack to me- I'm an addict and I just can't have it around).


OK- so here's the question. I've been meticulously writing down every calorie that goes in my mouth and I'm doing well. Without having done the RMR testing (they don't even do it in my city), I'm guessing that I need to eat about 1400 calories a day to lose weight. My question is: do I eat all the calories from the exercise that I've burned?
For example: I rode 2.5 hours yesterday and burned 1800 cal. Do I eat my 1400 and then all or part of the 1800? I know I need to eat some of what I burn because otherwise 1400 just isn't going to cut it for fueling my body properly and I'll be hurting myself. Just wondering what your thoughts are on how much of the calories burned through exercise that you need to eat (1/2, 2/3?)
I want to be eating enough to maintain my current activity level, but still lose weight. I've been toying with this for the last month and have only lost 2 lbs. I'm a little frustrated. I train approximately 1.5-2 hours a day- with one day of rest a week. I need the fuel, and DON'T want to starve myself, but don't want to be overeating (by eating my cal's burned) and then not doing any good.

Does any of this make sense?

What do you ladies think? Rabidgirl- RM???

I went to a nutritionist about 3 years ago (before WW and all this exercise started) and wanted to lose weight. She was a joke. I kept track of my food intake and she would look over it and tell me I was doing everything right (but I wasn't losing any weight- obviously I wasn't doing things right). I'm leary of finding another, but would like to. How do you go about finding a sports nutrtionist who actually undertands and works specifically with athletes to help them fuel?

[rabidgirl]

I'm happy to answer your question, but note that I am not a nutritionist. My knowledge is based on my experience and readings of other people's work.

That said, you should be calculating your caloric requirements that include calories lost from exercise. That means your caloric need includes your Resting Metabolic Rate (RMR) PLUS the calories consumed during activity. If you have a polar that estimates Own Cal, that is among one of the best ways to judge expenditure. There is also a multiplier you could use... based on your description of your activity, you could use 1.55 (that's your RMR times 1.55). Now, to lose weight, you cut the caloric requirement by no more than 500 calories. Cut out more calories and you just won't have the energy you need and you could throw your body into starvation mode.

There are two additional points to note:

1) You should not be worried about your total body weight per se, but rather your body fat percentage. A trainer should also be able to do this. Or, get some calipers and do the testing yourself. In weight loss, the goal is to lose the fat, not the muscle. By being consumed solely on your weight, you could inadvertenetly be losing muscle... not good.

2) Macronutirient percentages (% of carbs, protein, & fat) and nutrient timing for exercise recovery are extremely important for maintaining muscle, providing energy, and refueling the body. Of course, the macronutirent breakdown depends on the level and type of exercise you are doing. A rough basis for estimating macros is 20% protein, 20-30% fat and 50-60% carbs. If you are just building endurance you would eat more fats; higher intensity activity requires more carbs; protein stays roughly 1 gram per pound of bodyweight. Be sure to get carbs in before activity, replenish carbs and protein during activity, and get plenty of carbs and protein IMMEDIATELY after exercise.

Joe Friel has co-authored a book titled "The Paleo Diet for Athletes". I just started getting into it, but it seems to follow much of what I have been reading and practicing myself. It is much more restrictive than what I have been following due to the exclusions of foods causing blood acidosis, but I'm looking forward to learning more and giving it a try.

[Tri Girl]

That said, you should be calculating your caloric requirements that include calories lost from exercise. That means your caloric need includes your Resting Metabolic Rate (RMR) PLUS the calories consumed during activity. If you have a polar that estimates Own Cal, that is among one of the best ways to judge expenditure. There is also a multiplier you could use... based on your description of your activity, you could use 1.55 (that's your RMR times 1.55). Now, to lose weight, you cut the caloric requirement by no more than 500 calories. Cut out more calories and you just won't have the energy you need and you could throw your body into starvation mode.


Thanks for your answer! So I'm to understand that I should consume enough calories in a day that includes my RMR, and whatever calories I burn through exercise?

I use a Nike HR monitor (same as Polar in all the functions) that calculates cal burned based on info I put into it.

When you say cut the caloric requirement by no more than 500 calories. What do you mean? What caloric requirement (the RMR, right?). So if my RMR is 1500 cal, and I burn 800 through exercise, I should consume 1800 calories that day? (1500+800-500?). Am I understanding right? Sometimes I have to have things spelled out for me like I'm 5. ;)

My body fat percentage is high. To me that is the more important number than the scale. At my lowest, my trainer at the gym measured me at 18% body fat. Currently I'm at 27. I'd be thrilled with 24.

Thanks again so much for your information!!! It really helps me! :)

[rabidgirl]

TriGirl, You've got it right.... 1500 (RMR) + 800 (cals burned) - 500 (for weight loss) = 1800 total cals. To be honest, if I were you, I'd start at 2000 and see how it goes. You can safely lose 1 pound of body fat per week. If you aren't losing that, then go to 1800 cals. The goal is to avoid pushing the body into starvation mode. Be sure to get enough protein and good fats. One nifty trick is to eat carbs around exercise (for energy and recovery) and eat more fat & protein on non-exercise days and in the hours after exercise (if you exercise in the morning, then the evenings could have more fats & protein with less carbs).

I see you live in tornado alley... whereabouts? I'm just north of KC, MO. One of my long term goals is to complete an Ironman... I'd love to get your take on training for the average human being. :-)

[Tri Girl]

Woo hoo! I understood. Thanks, again, for helping me see clearly. I will go ahead and start with 2000 cal + exercise cals burned - the 500. According to some rough calculations that I've made today based on Nancy Clarks Sports Nutrition for Athletes and some internet searching I did, I probably need to eat 2400 calories a day to maintain weight. Granted, my body may be different, but until I get the RMR test done- this will be a good starting point.

I live in OKC- right now we are not so much tornado alley, but just one big marshland. I guess with all the rain the severe thunderstorm/tornado threat has disappeard. I can be thankful for that. :)

As for training, it wasn't easy, but I don't have kids and I have a husband who's very understanding. I did the trifuel 36 week program, and it was great for me (www.trifuel.com- under the training section). When I do another, I'll use that program again. As for nutrition for going long distance, I used the book Going Long by Friel and somebody else (can't remember). Excellent book on fueling for iron distance events.

[Tri Girl]

I'm soooooooo glad you posted about this, RM!!! Thank you for sharing your findings. If you hadn't- I wouldn't have sought someone to do the test and get myself measured. I think knowing EXACTLY the number of calories I need to consume will be very beneficial (for weight loss currently, but also for maintaining weight and when I do another IM I'll know exactly how much to eat to fuel me properly).

So I did the RMR test yesterday.
The test was nothing exciting. Like RM- I had to do some adjusting to make sure the mask had a snug fit (man- that was a little confining). I just sat in a chair with my feet propped up for 15 min. with a mask over my mouth and nose and had to be still and relax and breathe normally. It was interesting, but VERY hard for me to sit still that long. I'm a figdeter, so being still that long was kinda tough.
He e-mailed me my results later this afternoon. Said my RMR was 1383 calories per day. There are 4 factors that go into figuring your daily caloric needs. RMR is one of them. The others are:
1. ADL (activities of daily living- what you burn just going about your normal day- I'm wearing a monitor for a week to measure how many calories I burn just doing normal things- not exercise).
2. TE (thermal effect of digesting, transporting and abosorbing food). Don't know how that's measured- we'll get into that next time.
3. Excercise (what you burn exercising daily)
4. RMR

He also said that depending on where you're at in your monthly cycle, your metabolism can have an increase of about 150 calories- you burn more at mid-cycle. Interesting. I didn't know that. No wonder I want to eat more at certain times of the month. ;)

After I turn in my monitor that's measuring my calories burned through daily activity (non-exercise) we'll figure in exercise and the thermal effect then come up with a number of how many calories to eat daily to lose (and then maintain). I'm very excited. Sometimes too much information is just- well, too much information. But in this case, I think too much information is a good thing. Hopefully it'll get my butt in gear and help me lose this weight that I've been struggling with for a year.

Thanks, RM and rabidgirl for all your help!!!! :)