Chronic neck problems - should I get a new bike?

[kaian]

Ever since I started cycling about 3 years ago, I have had neck problems. The first bike I bought ended up being too big, so I got a Trek 1000 43cm. The 43 felt a little small and I wanted to upgrade, so I went with a 47cm Trek 1500 WSD a year later. I was professionally fitted by a well known fitter in MI on this bike. He fit me conservatively with a stem with a nice upright angle on it. My neck problems went away for a while, but then seem to come back randomly. Sometimes I feel great on the bike (did 2 centuries last summer), but then other times it will flare up and bother me for a month or longer. It is very strange. I am a very flexible person in general and again, my bike is set-up conservatively. I am scheduled to start PT for my neck for the second time in 2 years, but I can't help but wonder if I should change something about my cycling since this seems to be the thing that has sparked the issue. Doctors have not found anything wrong with me and so it gets classified as "overuse". I don't overtrain and I increase mileage/intensity at a reasonable pace.

I was thinking that maybe I should get a more upright bike??? The 1500 is more a race geometry afterall and I was wondering if a flat bar road bike or something like the Trek Pilot would solve my problems.

Anyone have experience with something similar?

[mimitabby]

Don't forget to do OTHER exercises and stretches, not just bike rides.
Bike riding doesn't work all your muscles so some muscles might be compensating for others and, well, hurting.
Core exercises are good.

And take the bike back to whoever was the last professional fit you had.

but if you want a new bike... by all means... really, you should look into
the core and stretches.

[kaian]

Oh, I do other exerices. My workout plan for a long time has been biking 3 times a week, upper body weights and core 2-3 times a week. I actually have a pretty strong back and have a decent core - I make sure to target both my lower back and abs as well as the sides of my torso. I am actually in really decent shape. I am the weight I should be and am fairly muscular. I was also doing the neck and upper back exercises I learned in PT a while ago at least twice a week.

I don't think it's a lack of strength somewhere. I really think it has to do with the straining or the hyper-extension of my neck. When this came about this time around, I was right in the midst of my regular workouts and it just came out of nowhere. Initially, my first hypothesis was that it was due to my teeth clenching when I sleep. I wear a bite guard every night, but that doesn't seem to stop the clenching. I've tried muscle relaxers and that doesn't seem to work. But still, it's weird that the neck problems seem to have started when I began cycling.

[MomOnBike]

If you do decide to look at other bikes, a recumbent might be what you need. Depending on how laid-back the bike is, your head/neck can be in a pretty neutral position. And the right 'bents are speedy (and can be spendy).

I like mine, am planning on riding RAGBRAI this year on it, in fact. It's something to consider.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I think today's common handlebar-lower-than-seat geometry is really designed for racing and may not put you in the best neck position for long distance riding and centuries.
If i were you I would look into touring bikes. They are designed to keep you comfortable over long distances. Rivendell bikes are one example (like my bike), but there are other brands.
I do not think straight bars are comfortable for riding centuries. You cannot change your hand positions around hour after hour of riding. Hybrid bikes tend to have you completely upright, which might not be good for long distances either- lots of weight straight down your spine onto your seat, instead of distributed. Touring bikes are road bikes built for more distance comfort and they usually can take a variety of tire widths to make dirt/gravel roads do-able too.
Just my two cents.

[farrellcollie]

have you tried a stem riser or something like this handlebar adapter http://www.yellowjersey.org/ax50.html or a combination? I use the adapter and a friend of mine uses the riser and the adapter on her Trek road bike (she has had several neck/back surgeries for some disc problem) - it was set up for her by her lbs. The adapter brings the handlebars in closer. I use it for a bad wrist and elbow. The combination has let my friend keep using her bike - which she really liked and did not want to change.

I tried a straight bar bike and it was uncomfortable to me. To make it work (and my problem is my arm - not neck so this may not be applicable) I would have put on north bars.

Just a thought - although the new bike thing is nice too.

[Wahine]

You likely have a lack of muscle endurance and as your neck muscles fatigue your posture fails and creates pressure and so on...

Here's a post of mine on a different thread. It has links to some exercises that I think may be applicable in you case.

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showpost.php?p=200105&postcount=4

Hope that helps.

[kaian]

Hmmm...muscle endurance. That sounds like it makes sense because doctors and PTs are always talking about strength and like I said before, I don't think it's about strength specifically or having a weakness. My muscles may be strong for quick things, but lack the endurance they need for cycling. I will try those exercises, wahine. Thanks.

A touring bike may be a good idea as well. The only thing is I think touring bikes tend to come in larger sizes and I'm pretty small. Are there any that are smaller scaled for small women?

I don't plan on racing, really. Medium and long rides tend to be my thing and perhaps my bike isn't the ideal for the longer things. My handlebars are a little higher than the seat though, with the stem I have on it. It's a 17 degree rise stem, so it's relatively upright and the length of the stem feels great to me. I don't feel too stretched out and I don't feel crowded either. It's a bummer because the bike feels good to me. I know there's more to it though, too. The bike geometry overall can effect your body position and how your body feels.

[Eden]

Don't neglect stretching/moving around when you are *on* the bike as well. I find if I get too focused on my workout or race sometimes I forget to move around a bit as I ride and I hold my head quite stiffly, which causes my neck to start aching. Try to be conscious about keeping your shoulders relaxed and moving your head around every once in a while.
One caution about getting more upright. When I was having real shoulder problems I tried something along those lines and not only did my shoulder not get better - it made my back and butt hurt too....

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

A touring bike may be a good idea as well. The only thing is I think touring bikes tend to come in larger sizes and I'm pretty small. Are there any that are smaller scaled for small women?
If you are interested...
Here is Rivendell's site:
http://www.rivbike.com/home
Check out the "weights and measures" link for each model's sizes and geometry.
The Bleriot, the Glorius (a mixte), and the Saluki would be models that come to my mind for smaller sizes. The Bleriot is cheapest, but the Saluki also comes in the very smallest size they make (47cm). I am 5'5" and ride a 54cm Rambouillet.

[KnottedYet]

Surly Long Haul Trucker is also a spiffy touring bike.

http://www.surlybikes.com/lht_comp.html

And the sizes are 42cm - 62cm.

[kaian]

Hmmm...I took a look at the touring bikes and I feel like they aren't really what I want/need. I am not going to do any loaded touring and the thought of big tires is kind of unattractive to me at this point. I may do some "touring" down the road, but what I do most are rides between 50-100 miles. Are there other bikes I may want to consider in the future (if the issues continue)? Are the Trek Pilots more upright than the 1500?

I think I would like to stick with 23-25 tires/wheels and something lightweight, but just more upright, relaxed geometry. I ride with other roadies and I have a feeling that I wouldn't keep up as well with a heavier touring bike. I'd like to keep it in the lightweight range. I've also wondered if a change of materials would help at all - in other words, riding steel or carbon as opposed to aluminum. Not sure if that would help the neck problem though.

I really appreciate all of the comments/suggestions.

[mimitabby]

I don't think the steel vs aluminum vs carbon thing is going to affect your neck.
There is definitely less choice for shorter women.
I am having a bike custom made for me with your specs. relaxed position and very light.
I got tired of messing around; but then on the other hand, I rode a Bianchi Volpe (less than 1000 dollars) and was very impressed.

keep looking, good luck

[Eden]

you could try the tennis ball stretch too - the exercises that I was given when I was having the shoulder/neck trouble didn't touch the problem, but the tennis ball stretch was a miracle.
I wrote it all out in this thread: http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=15222&highlight=tennis+balls

You could also make sure that you are wearing a very light helmet - and it doesn't have to be a super duper expensive one either. Some of the less expensive wsd helmets are actually lighter than the spiffy $200 ones. That is one place where shaving off a few grams might really make a practical difference.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Hmmm...I took a look at the touring bikes and I feel like they aren't really what I want/need. I am not going to do any loaded touring and the thought of big tires is kind of unattractive to me at this point. I may do some "touring" down the road, but what I do most are rides between 50-100 miles. Are there other bikes I may want to consider in the future (if the issues continue)? Are the Trek Pilots more upright than the 1500?

I think I would like to stick with 23-25 tires/wheels and something lightweight, but just more upright, relaxed geometry. I ride with other roadies and I have a feeling that I wouldn't keep up as well with a heavier touring bike. I'd like to keep it in the lightweight range. I've also wondered if a change of materials would help at all - in other words, riding steel or carbon as opposed to aluminum. Not sure if that would help the neck problem though.

I really appreciate all of the comments/suggestions.

I do understand what you are saying about touring bikes. :)
But I would like to just point out that my DH and my steel Rivendells have 700x27cm smooth tires (not knobby), we don't put any heavy touring loads on them (yet), they are pretty quick and lively on the road, and they weigh 25 pounds with everything on them including a saddlebag with tools and tube, and water bottles. Not that heavy really. The handlebars are at the same height as the saddles- very easy on the back and neck. Touring bikes are not necessarily slow heavy clunkers with tank treads. ;)

Mimi's bike sounds well worth checking into as well.

Jamis Bikes makes some less expensive bikes with slightly relaxed or touring geometry too. (not very heavy either)

If you are looking for a very lightweight bike that is going to give you a better neck position, I envision that might be less easy to find. The reason?- the people looking for very lightweight bikes are usually seeking fast racing bikes....and fast racing bikes are the very bikes that usually put the rider in an extreme racing position which will be hard on the neck. Most hybrid bikes will put you in a more upright position...but hybrids are not generally very lightweight bikes.

You ride long distances- 50-100 mile rides. I would think you'd feel best on a bike with relaxed geometry made for distance riding.
Ok, I'll stop now! ;)

[kaian]

I'm in PT now for the neck and I think it is getting better, but it is being really stubborn. 6 weeks of this neck madness! Anyway, I haven't stopped riding, just cut back a little and try to change my hand positions. I'm still concerned though because I did PT for this problem before and it came back. I'm seriously wondering if my body just doesn't like the road position.

I was looking at the Trek FX bikes...basically flat bar road bikes, but I'm just not sure about it. Seems like quite a gamble of $$$ if I don't know whether or not it will solve my problems. I wonder if it would be ridiculous to try and get my handlebars even higher on my road bike? They are already higher than the seat and at a 17 degree upward angle.

Anyone ride flat bar bikes? How are they for longer distances (over 50 miles)?

[KnottedYet]

I'm still concerned though because I did PT for this problem before and it came back.

PT made it go away, but then it came back? did you continue with your home program and it came back even though you were doing everything every day your PT told you? Or did you stop your PT exercises, or maybe only did them when you remembered, and it came back?

Sometimes PT is a maintainence issue, not a "quick fix" issue. If you remember what you were doing in PT (or if what you are doing in PT now is working) please try to do it every day from now on and see if it helps.

Flat bar road bikes: I found flat bar to be very irritating beyond about 40 miles. Hard on my crabby neck, because I couldn't change positions. I have super tall stems and drop bars and it's peachy.

Dimension makes high-rise threadless road stems.
Nitto makes beautiful high-rise quill stems.
Salsa makes bars with shallow drops.

[kaian]

Yes, I did continue my PT stuff, but not every day. What I did was incorporate the exercises I learned into my upper body weights work out, so I was doing them 3 times a week. I guess this time around I will do them daily and see if that makes a difference. It's hard being such an active person and still having injuries and such. It's not like I never exercise or stretch...it is ongoing for me.

I guess I can look for other stems or go get fit again. I am wondering if eventually I should just get a more relaxed geometry road bike when I can afford it. The Trek 1500 has more of a race geometry and I wonder if getting more of a relaxed frame with a sloped top tube will bring the front end of the bike up even more (with the right stem) and just make it easier on my body overall. I feel pretty comfy on my bike, I really do, but the neck just doesn't like being perched out there in that position.

[violette]

Kian, what kinda core exersices do you do?

[kaian]

I do a variety of core exercises. There are some tri sites that have a whole bunch of them that I found helpful. Here's one site I use:

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=486

I also do "good mornings" for my lower back and also twists and side bends with weights for my core.

I do these about 3 times a week when I do my overall upper body weights workout.

I have my full body covered when it comes to exercise. I'm not a couch potato who just gets on a bike once in a while. This is my fourth season riding and I've been active my whole life, including weights and strengthening exercises for several years.

[ladyicon]

I hate to say this but I had chronic neck and shoulder pain all the time (riding for 5 years), I just thought it went with bike riding. Never went away after going through PT and stretches. I just got a new bike 3 weeks ago and believe it or not the pain has gone away :D I don't know if it had to do with bad fits on my other bikes or not :confused: Maybe it was just a coincidence :confused: My neck and shoulder pain is better now after only riding my new bike for 3 weeks....go figure. Diane in San Diego

[kaian]

Ladyicon, what kind of bike did you have and then what did you switch to? What were the differences between the bikes/fit? Just curious! If I can find a bike or a position that will help me, I would be delighted!

[ladyicon]

I don't know if it was the bike or not, but it had to be cause now I feel fine. I was riding a Trek Pilot which has a sloping top tube and I always felt kinda crunched up on the bike. I went to Trek a few times for fits and got 3 different one (3 different people) :confused: Still had the pain......My husband bought me a Specialized Ruby which has a straighter top tub and different frame geometry, all I had to do was put a shorter stem and got fitted once and the pain went away. One thing you have to do is stretch your neck before, after, and during the ride. Make sure you are not leaning on your handlbars too much, too much weight forward can hurt. Try tipping the nose of your saddle up a teenie bit so that your weight is on your sit bones, and you are not sliding forward.
Also while you are riding shrug your shoulders every few miles to make sure they are not all tensed up. Sounds like you need a real experienced fitter to fit you correctly. Everyone is different. Good luck, but DO NOT give up!