Shifting from Fat loss to Weight loss?

[Nokomis]

I needed to do something real about fitness & diet, so I started the body for life challenge. I think I'm following it appropriately, but now that the warm weather is arriving I'd like to start moving into more cycling and less short cardio sessions.

My success on the plan has been muscle building and a lower percent body fat. (Almost 5% body fat lost thru week 9) I've lost inches here & there, but my total weight hasn't moved. I really want to drop 20 lbs ~ get back to a weight that I was comfortable at years ago.

I don't know how to fuel the weight loss - or what to change vs. what I'm doing now. (Historically the only time I've lost wieght is when I was sick and had no appetite - coincidentally it was also an illness that shot my weight up in the first place.) I'm currently eating 5-6 meals a day, balance of lean protein, mostly whole wheat carbs or fruit, and veggies. I'm exercizing 6 days a week, half weight training & half cardio or cycling.

My summer cycling goals:
Move up from the B17 40 mile group to the A19s at 60+. Our club is hosting their 2nd century - would really like to make a good effor there (saddle permitting) and to be conditioned for the Livestrong century at the end of the season.

[equus123]

What are you doing in the gym? Excercises, # reps & # sets, # days per week?

I have a good background in strength training so I might be able to help modify what you're doing to decrease the amount of muscle building....lean it out....and also support fat loss.

Losing 5% BF in 9 weeks is really good. You should be very proud of yourself. And just based on what your summer goals are for cycling - in achieving them you'll definitely end up cutting off a lot more BF just because of the nature of the sport. In fact, that exact type of exercise, long and easy to moderate, are the best way to burn the most amount of fat as energy. Of course the biggest thing is to moderate your nutrition. Just be careful as to not gain weight if you're increasing your volume of training. Manage calories burned, calories consumed, grams of carbohydrates, grams of protein, and electrolytes. Those are the most important aspects of nutrition for the endurance athlete.

Good luck! :)

[Nokomis]

Thanks equus!! I am proud & motivated - just trying to identify the right changes to reach my goals.

Simplification of the plan so it doesn't take forever to explain.. hopefully this is clear.

Workout rotation is Cardio / Upper Body / Cardio / Lower Body , repeat. 6 days on, 1 day off, pick up the rotation w/ next work out. So one week will be 2 days upper body, the next week would be 2 days lower body.

Upper: Chest, Back, Shoulders, Bicep & Tricep work.
Lower: Quads/Glutes, Hamstring, Calf, Ab work
Increase weight per set, reps go 12, 10, 8, 6, then lower weight for 12, and add 12 more of a second exercize for the same muscle group - totalling 6 sets per muscle. Goal is to fatigue the muscle group w/ the final set.

I do change up the exercizes and challenge the muscles in different ways, and am seeing progress in tone, strength, and definition.

[equus123]

Thanks equus!! I am proud & motivated - just trying to identify the right changes to reach my goals.

Simplification of the plan so it doesn't take forever to explain.. hopefully this is clear.

Workout rotation is Cardio / Upper Body / Cardio / Lower Body , repeat. 6 days on, 1 day off, pick up the rotation w/ next work out. So one week will be 2 days upper body, the next week would be 2 days lower body.

Upper: Chest, Back, Shoulders, Bicep & Tricep work.
Lower: Quads/Glutes, Hamstring, Calf, Ab work
Increase weight per set, reps go 12, 10, 8, 6, then lower weight for 12, and add 12 more of a second exercize for the same muscle group - totalling 6 sets per muscle. Goal is to fatigue the muscle group w/ the final set.

I do change up the exercizes and challenge the muscles in different ways, and am seeing progress in tone, strength, and definition.


That actually looks pretty good and sounds like you know what you're doing. That's VERY good. Couple comments - do you take rest & recover weeks? That's the one major flag that's raised in initially looking at your schedule. As long as every few weeks you take a couple days off during a week or a few consecutive days to rest then you're okay.

How do you feel with the amount of lifting you do? Are you okay with the total time spent in the gym per day or per week? I'm asking this because you can actually combine muscle groups and reduce the number of exercises - if that's an option you would like. Another thing I notice is that you seem to be doing a lot of sets. This in combination with only having 1 day off per week for recovery might come back and nip you in the butt later on down the road. Please be careful about overtraining. Lifting takes a good 2 days to recover from so if you never give your body the opportunity to do so then you might fatigue and do your body harm. Did somebody prescribe this workout for you or did you create it yourself?

I have some suggestions but they would be to change what you're doing and how you're doing it. I'm sure you don't want to do that because I know how good it feels when you finally get into a schedule but if you're interested, I'm more than happy to share other ideas of what you could do to continue strength training but modify the way in which you're doing it to help elicit a more aerobic type of lifting.

[gnat23]

My success on the plan has been muscle building and a lower percent body fat. (Almost 5% body fat lost thru week 9) I've lost inches here & there, but my total weight hasn't moved. I really want to drop 20 lbs ~ get back to a weight that I was comfortable at years ago.

One thing that BFL taught me years ago is this: that bodyfat percentage is WAY more useful than the number on the scale!

I know it's frustrating not to see the scale number go down, but the bodyfat number is where it's at. And the fact that you aren't losing scale weight at the same time means you can be pretty darn sure that you are LOSING FAT *and* GAINING MUSCLE at the same time. That I could be so lucky these days! Lately, I have been *gaining* weight, but my pants are fitting better and I feel more like I can cruise up those 14% grade hills like they were nuthin. If I just tried to get down to a scale weight, I'd be losing muscle, too. That's not what I want anymore!

Instead of the number on the scale as a goal, I would recommend setting a dress- or jeans-size goal that you're comfortable at. Or a fitness goal (like riding XX miles at an average speed of XX). I say keep doing what you're doing, get through the 12 weeks, enjoy all those inches being lost, and re-evaluate how you're feeling when it comes time to reset those goals. :D

-- gnat!

[RoadRaven]

Shifting weight is about everything discussed above.

However, the most successful strategy my partner and I have tried is to remove bread from our diets. We eat loads of rice now though.
We already didn't eat cake, biscuits, pastires etc. (except for the very occasional treat).

He did it for a few months and after two had dropped 8kgs.
I have been doing it for a month and have dropped 5kgs so far. My goal is another 14kgs.

Of course the drawback of losing weight this quickly is that you don't have the energy reserves you had. So now he has plateued and is maintaining his weight, he has found his power and strength are back - plus he can stay with the top cyclists in our club on hills.
He did maintain his cycling distances (about 4-500km per week) but didn't do intense rides, just distances. now he is building the intense rides into his distances again.

I am finding I don't have the endurance in races, but thats ok. Already I am climbing a tad faster, and that is my the reason for me wanting to lose weight.

[teigyr]

I am reading this with great interest because I also do the same type of routine. I do four sets instead of six but it is the same concept. Is it better to fatigue the muscle than to do the same weight? I used to do step increases and still kind of do it sometimes.

Also, if you're doing at least two day gaps between muscle groups (ie upper body/cardio/lower body/cardio then back to upper) is that sufficient? Or by rest does it mean no weight training? Lower body rest is the worst because everything requires lower body!

Great thread though and I am sure many people appreciate the information here.

[equus123]

I am reading this with great interest because I also do the same type of routine. I do four sets instead of six but it is the same concept. Is it better to fatigue the muscle than to do the same weight? I used to do step increases and still kind of do it sometimes

Depends on what you want out of it, how you want to look, and what your goals are. You can still fatigue the muscle by doing the same weight or even with 2 lbs! ....it's all in how you do it. Using the example you stated above, if you use the same weight for each set and it's still somewhat easy at the end of each set and by the last set then you can change your tempo. Tempo in lifting refers to 3 measures of time - 1 for the eccentric, 1 for the climax, and 1 for the concentric. Ex: a bench press. You pick the bar up and your arms are fully extended. The eccentric movement is from max extension down to your chest. The climax would be that lowest point. The concentric movement is the actual "lift" whether it be a push or a pull. Back to your example.....you can use the same weight for all 4 sets and either use a slow eccentric movement (~3 second count) or you can squeeze at the end of the push/pull (~2 second count). This will burn towards the end of the last set and you'll definitely feel the fatigue. These types of lifting techniques tend to build strength and stamina or endurance. Lifting heavier weights with lower reps tend to build strength and power. So again, everything boils down to what you want out of your strength training, how you want your physique, and what your goals are.


Also, if you're doing at least two day gaps between muscle groups (ie upper body/cardio/lower body/cardio then back to upper) is that sufficient? Or by rest does it mean no weight training? Lower body rest is the worst because everything requires lower body!

When it comes to defining "rest" - you can have designated body part days (i.e. Tuesday - chest and shoulders; Friday - back and arms) or you can do full body workouts each time you go into the gym. What differs is the total number of sets and reps per body part that distinguishes the amount of rest needed for the muscles to recover.

Focusing on one muscle group and doing that twice per week is okay, more than that will likely not provide enough rest between. On the other hand if you do full body workouts then you can lift up to 4 days per week because it's not as targeted and specific as the other.

[Nokomis]

I have some suggestions but they would be to change what you're doing and how you're doing it. I'm sure you don't want to do that because I know how good it feels when you finally get into a schedule but if you're interested, I'm more than happy to share other ideas of what you could do to continue strength training but modify the way in which you're doing it to help elicit a more aerobic type of lifting.

I'm using the body for life 12 week challenge / plan. I'm open to suggestions - the plan has helped me change my body composition, maintain regular exercize and better eating habits. I am trying to explore what to do next that will best compliment my cycling + fitness goals. I'm very interested in your suggestions.

gnat - I am very happy about my progress thus far! I'm still waiting for that pivot point to kick in where the extra muscle increases metabolism & my weight starts to drop :) I am now stronger & better able to push 160 lbs up hill, but i'd rather be pushing 140 up hill instead :D

RoadRaven - I rarely have white bread, the majority of my grain carbs are being supplied by brown rice or quinoa, or whole grain granola in small amounts.

If this helps, a sample eating plan (today):
Beverages - Black coffee, Water, water, water, and more water
Breakfast - 1/4c granola, 1/2c TJs fat free greek style yogurt, 1/4c blueberries
Snack - 1/2 Odwalla super protein
Lunch - grilled chicken breast (3oz), steamed broccoli/carrot/cauliflower, 1/2c brown rice
Snack - other 1/2 Odwalla super protein
Dinner - ~5oz jerk chicken, 3/4c quinoa w/ tomato & cucumber
Snack - 1/2c lowfat cottage cheese, 1/3c berries

[RoadRaven]

Nokomis... sounds like your diet is alright (though I'm no nutritionist)

The point, we were told, of droppng all bread is to eliminate gluten as much as possible from the diet, and the fat you "lose" is "internal" fat that accumulates around organs. I haven't researched this for medical back-up, but it is resulting in our weight loss.

But it sounds like you couldn't eliminate much more gluten (if you wanted to) from your diet anyways...

[equus123]

Okay, after much thought, here is an example workout schedule that will help maintain overall strength and help facilitate the introduction of more cycling or aerobic training for your goal cycling distance.

What I was thinking you could change is drop the number of days in the gym to twice per week, do your aerobic stuff (cycling or whatever) 3-4x per week, and have 1-2 days off per week. Also instead of having certain body parts sore the next day rather than others, I prefer to do a full-body workout each time I go in. Personally, I like the way it feels better. You can always give this a try and see how you take to it. If you prefer your current schedule - then by all means, do it!

Here's what an example week might be like. I've found that saying how much rest is needed between lifting days or rest days can be provided and then the athlete can integrate these into their own schedule and whatever works for them. I've found that "pre-built" schedules are never conducive for my schedule and they're hardly flexible either.

The following exercises I've done millions of times before. They're my favorite, they're excellent for their purpose, and they're compound exercises. Compound exercises are best because they incorporate 2 or more joints in the movement. This means it's a better workout, more muscles are recruited, it jacks up your heart rate, and you burn more calories. The other positive side of it is that you can do less exercises and less sets to get basically the same workout. Make sense?

**For the first 2 weeks, have a :60 (60 second) rest between sets and no rest between exercises - just go right to the next. Each week drop :05 so that after 7 weeks, you'll be at :30 rest between sets. This also helps the aerobic system and trains your body's recovery time. Other modifications of this workout if you choose to go past 7 weeks can be to pick a standard :45 rest between sets but increase the weight or you can do it all over again with more weight per exercise. The possibilities are endless and do whatever is fun or challenging for you.

**Everything should be 3 sets of 8-10 reps (3x8-10) unless otherwise noted. I say 8-10 reps because it depends on what works better for you. Sometimes the weight affects how many reps you can do so pick the weight accordingly.

DAY 1:

Inch Worms (2x10)
Dumbbell Lunges
Dumbbell or Barbell Bench
Chin/Pull Ups
Hanging Pikes or Captain's Chair (2x25)
Bent Over Dumbbell or Barbell Rows
Good Mornings (2x10)
Alternating Shoulder Press

DAY 2:

Dumbbell Squat Thrusts (2x10)
Split Squats
Dumbell Flies
Decline Dumbell Pullovers
Decline Situps (2x25)
Seated Rows
Back Extensions (2x10)
Dips

At first glance if you're familiar with these exercises you can see that you're working one part of the body and then something completely different. You'll also notice that the order is the same (warmup, quads, chest, lats, core, upper back/rear delts, low back, and then extra) and the two different exercises between the two days work the same muscles but in a slightly different way.

The only machine you'll use is to do the seated row. Everything else is dumbbells, a bar, or using a bench.

INCH WORM = warmup exercise; Stand with your feet shoulder width apart. You're going to put your hands on the ground and keeping your legs straight, walk your hands out as far as you can go and then back to your feet. This counts as 1. Then go right into the next one. An easy way to count is to alternate which hand goes first so you always know whether you're on an even or an odd number.

DB LUNGES = using dumbbells, you're going to stay stationary. Start with feet together, step out with one foot and bend both knees to 90 degrees. Touch your knee to the floor and push back to where you were standing. Then do the same with the other foot. The key is to go straight down towards the floor after you take the step forward.

HANGING PIKES = a pretty difficult exercise to do but if you're strong enough, do 'em! These are done with the help of something to hold onto that will let you hang a few inches above the ground and also allows a lot of clearance room. Get up and grab a bar or handles and hang perfectly straight. These are done by keeping your legs straight and with control, bring your legs up and touch your feet to your hands and lower back down. It works all sorts of muscles!

CAPTAIN'S CHAIR = the easier and safer alternative to pikes. These are done on the raised chair that supports your back and your arms like the top half of a chair. Get up into it, hold on, and let your legs hang straight down. Then do the same as the pike - with your legs straight and controlled, raise them up to hip level (parallel to the ground) and slowly lower then back down.

BENT OVER DB/BB ROWS = depending on your strength, you can use dumbbells or a 35 lb bar for these. Once you find the right weight (shouldn't be too much) then stand holding the bar with your hands in the pronated position (palms facing behind you). You're going to tilt over at about 35-45 degrees (or not more than 45 degrees) at your hips and let your arms hang down towards the ground. From here, you're going to pull the bar towards your chest (usually mid-nipple line is the standard) like doing an upsidedown bench press. Or if you're using dumbbells, do the same movement and placement. The key is to squeeze your shoulderblades back as if someone is pulling your elbows together behind you.

GOOD MORNINGS = if you have a bad back, don't do these. But if you're okay then this is a great hamstring and "posterior chain" exercise. The posterior chain refers to all of the muscles on the back half of your body that are posturial and similar to an erector set. This clearly applies to being on the bike! Use a light bar to start with (one of the ones with black padding all the way around it) because you won't need much weight at all for these. Start with the bar behind your head on the base of your neck or across the very top of your shoulders (where I do it). You can hold the bar close to your shoulders or farther out on the bar (doesn't matter). You're going to have a very slight bend in your knees - basically so they're not locked. Keep your back completely straight, bend at the hips until you're even with your hips (parellel to the ground). The key is to keeping the same tight back and curl your head backwards as you're leaning down so you can look straight ahead when you're at the lowest point of the movement. Your hamstrings will be tight the next 2 days if you're doing them correctly.

ALTERNATING SHOULDER PRESS = you can use one of the light, padded bars like for the good mornings. Start standing with the bar in front of you at shoulder height. You're going to lift the bar only an inch above your head and move the bar over top and backwards to finish shoulder height behind your head. And continuing in one motion, do the same over top of your head and finish in the front. This counts as 1. They really make your delts scream if you do it all as one continuous movement.

DB SQUAT THRUSTS = using a somewhat small dumbbells (8-15 lbs) but they need to have flat surfaces on the ends! (not round ones), this is another type of warmup exercise. Stand with the DB's hanging at your side. You're going to squat down until the dumbbells touch the floor. Without stopping, put all of your weight onto them as if your hands were directly on the floor and hop to shoot your feet out behind you - feet together and body straight and stiff (this is a pushup position). Then you're going to hop and pull your feet back under you and then stand up out of the squat. This is all one continuous movement. This counts as 1. It's fantastic for warming up the whole body and getting your heart rate up!

SPLIT SQUATS = fantastic single-leg exercise. Use dumbbells of a decent to moderate weight and find an empty flat bench. Stand with the bench a couple feet behind you. You're going to put the top of one foot on the bench so you're standing on one leg. Then you're going to drop straight down until your knee is at 90 degrees and then back up. These are single leg squats. You're going to do twice as many reps because you'll do one set on each leg and then switch and do the other - then take your rest between sets. The key is to not let your knee go forward past your toes if you look straight down.

DB FLIES = light dumbbells and a flat bench. Lay on the bench and hold your arms up over you with a slight bend at the elbow. Now swing your arms out to the sides until they're parallel to the ground with your palms facing up while holding the DB's and bring them back up and touch the DB's together at the top. The key is to control the movement and squeeze your back as your arms are going down and then your chest as you squeeze your arms back together above you.

DECLINE DB PULLOVERS = fun alternative to a lat pulldown (if you prefer to do them then go ahead). You'll need a decline bench (one where your knees and hips will be higher than your head) and light to decent dumbbells. Lay on the bench but have your arms straight and pointing straight up towards the ceiling (aka perpendicular to the ground). You can have a slight bend in the elbows and slowly lower your arms backwards towards your head until your arms are straight above your head (i.e. hands actually near the ground and arms pointing downward). Then pull your arms back up until they're perpendicular to the ground and pointing straight up towards the ceiling again. Keep your core tight and try doing this with your arms shoulder length apart or with the dumbbells together in the middle.

DECLINE SITUPS = using the same decline bench, find a comfortable degree of tilt that will allow you to do 2 sets of 20-25. These are great for your abs in front, your lower back, your hip flexors - your whole core.

SEATED ROWS = this is the only exercise you'll need a pulley machine for. It's the one where you sit upright and pull some kind of handle towards you from straight in front of you. Focus on keeping your back tight and straight and then rolling your shoulder blades and elbows together behind you when you're pulling the weight back towards you.

BACK EXTENSIONS = love this one. You'll need one of those little pieces of equipment angled at 45 degrees with a padded hip part and an angled foot platform. Feet should be shoulder length apart, I like to cross my arms in front of me. Start with your back and body straight (but you're actually fully tilted at the 45 degrees with the equipment). Very slowly bend at the hips until your back and head are pointing straight down towards the ground and then very slowly come back up until your back is straight. They generally don't recommend to over extend your back past straight. Focus on squeezing your lower back muscles as you finish the movement back to a straight body.

DIPS = fantastic shoulder and tricep workout. You can do these on a machine or if you're strong enough - unaided with your body weight! These are done by holding onto handles and holding yourself up straight above them. If you're on a machine then there will be a pad that you can rest your knees and legs on. You'll bend at the elbow until your shoulder comes down near your hands and then straighten yourself back up. Do these slowly.

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeew that's enough for now, I'm spent. lol. Let me know if you have questions or need clarity on anything.

[teigyr]

Wow. Simply wow :D I am going to print that out to try. I can actually do most of those at the house!

It looks like some of these require flexibility. Since I need to work on that anyway, do you recommend any stretches to compliment this workout? I'm taking a pole dance class and my challenges are flexibility (to invert and do a lot of things you need flexibility) and ab strength. I was thinking about taking yoga but heck, would be much better to be at home! Not to mention, I tend to not have much time.

Thanks for all the work you put into that. Some of the moves I'm trying to figure out but I'll websearch them before I ask silly questions.

Jane

[Nokomis]

equus - you rock! wow, hope your hourly fee isn't too high, gonna owe you an arm & a leg ;)

I'm familiar with most of these exercizes, and the new ones are a step or 2 beyond what I'm doing now, so I'm very excited to give them a go. I think I'm going to try to work some of these into my current plan just to get the muscles used to them. I'm on week 10 of 12 of my current plan so I'll finish it out before transitioning.

Your schedule looks great, and looks to fit in with where I want to go and the additional research I've been looking in to. Thanks a million :D I'll let you know how it goes!

[equus123]

You're welcome :D Thank you ;)

re: Stretching = You could stretch more to wake up the muscles a bit. Personally, I think it's easier to just do stupid little stretches during the rest time between sets. You can do a bagillion things at once! :)

[Nokomis]

Okay - just started with Day 1. Felt great, and went much more quickly than I anticipated, think it's a shorter workout than I'd done previously.

One warning label needs inserted.. make sure your sports bra is Inch Worm capable. I almost flashed the boys at the gym :eek:

[equus123]

Nokomis - how's it going if you've been trying the plan?

[Nokomis]

My gym days go by very quickly - it's a much shorter workout than I'd been doing previously. I find my discipline lacking on the cardio component - my intention was 2-3 cardio sessions w/ my Saturday big ride. Well ~ yeah, intentions don't make results :p I'm probably managing 2 cardio or rides / week, and two weights days. So.. my weight has been flat which is good, but I know I still have progress to make. Now to dig out a fresh batch of motivation before laziness, fall comfort foods, and baking take root.