How do you stay safe..alone?

[Jenn]

Ok, I never really thought about being "asaulted" until recently. Even though we live on a military base, I ride On Sat a ALL hill ride which is 10 miles out VERY isolated. DH even said at 7AM on Sat Morning there should be VERY few cars but SP's, however I've had a few cars pass me WAY too close.
After reading posts and seeing what is going on, I'm now scared to go out there alone. Even with a mirror, if I see a car coming up on me....I can't do anything. What do ya'll do to keep yourself self.....
All I can think about is..now this precious littlel girl leaving TARGET of all places....ugh..Attacked in a DAY LIT parking lot!!
Then,honestly do we even have a chance if somebody runs us off the road, I know I was "dazed and confused" after my wreck...I don't even remember riding home! Wow, scary stuff!!
God bless the family of beautiful young Kelsey and her family in this difficult time.
Jenn

[mimitabby]

not sure what little girl you are talking about.
If you think about it, you're never really safe; a meteorite might fall on your head.
I try to always carry a cellphone. Someone knows where I am.
I have mirrors and try to be aware of my surroundings (no headphones for me).


be careful

[Jenn]

not sure what little girl you are talking about.
If you think about it, you're never really safe; a meteorite might fall on your head.
I try to always carry a cellphone. Someone knows where I am.
I have mirrors and try to be aware of my surroundings (no headphones for me).


be careful

Wow, Kelsey Smith, graduated 2 weeks ago...wen't to Target, to buy gifts for friends...been all ove rthe news.....all the viedo camaeras showed her getting attacked and pushed into her car....? I'm sure her family would have rather get hit by a meteor but she wasn't she was brutually abducted. Wow, they found her BODY off the pings from her CELL PHONE when everybody was trying to call her.
I know everyday is a gift, we could die tomorrow, I was just asking, how to we "TRY" to prevent this.
Huh, and I get teased by people I know I'm TOO paranoid, because I'm always watching.....if you've been asaulted before, as I have, paranoid is GOOD!

[Python]

Hmm, difficult question.

On one hand we all want to enjoy a peaceful existence, come and go as we please, do what we want, when we want.

On the other hand, we want to stay safe, be able to go about our business without fear of being assaulted or intimidated and in this day and age, that is not an easy task.

I tend to be bloody-minded. I refuse to be intimidated or frightened into not doing something. It's almost 11pm here as I write this and if I decided to go out for a cycle then that is exactly what I'd do. As it happens, it's my 3rd Wedding Anniversary and I'm enjoying a glass of wine at the moment (a rare occurrence for me).

If I'm in a situation which is frightening (and as an ex taxi-driver I had quite a few frightening experiences), I won't show I'm frightened. I put out serious "attitude" vibes and make sure my body language says "Don't mess with me". Body language is a HUGE give away to what someone is really thinking or feeling.

When I was a taxi driver I had one really serious incident. I had been sent to a village some miles out of town to pick up from the local pub. It was a two car booking which got downgraded to a one car booking. Five men piled into my taxi. The taxi I drove at that time was only licenced to carry 4 people, not 5. When I told the men I couldn't take all five of them, one of them got very nasty and started goading the others. To cut a long story short, they decided me being a very small and petite female was easy game. Wrong. What they didn't know was that I am a 1st Kyu Brown Belt in Karate. I thumped two of them good and proper, one limped away down an alley, three stood well back and the fifth, the instigator of the whole thing couldn't take no for an answer so I gave him a corker of a black eye:D The police eventually turned up and sorted things out. They turned out to be gipsies so they never were charged by the police (typical in our country).

That night, if I had shown fear, I don't really know what would have happened. Perhaps I would not be sitting here writing this now. I don't know.

What I do know is I'm the type of person who tends to get angry - very angry - when someone does something like this. I know what I'm capable of and I wouldn't hesitate to use it again if I had to. Hopefully I won't. Hopefully my body language of "Don't mess with me" would be enough to deter a would-be assailant.

I think part of staying safe is assessing a potential situation and if that means turning back then that is what we should do.

What we shouldn't do is allow the what might happen to rule our lives. If we did that, we wouldn't have any life at all.

[Tri Girl]

I know- I'm shocked about Kelsey. If I think about things like that too much I get too freaked out. Broad daylight with people around. Like the video of the 92 year old guy getting the crap beat out of him while 5 people standing 10 feet away did nothing. So random and so scary.

I'm not as paranoid as I used to be, but I'm still very cautious. When I ride long distances alone I always call DH and tell him the general whereabouts where I'll be, and when I can be expected back. I ALWAYS have my RoadID on (with all pertinent medical and contact info), and my cell phone is always turned on and handy (in case I need to use it quickly). I used to carry pepper spray in my bento box (until it got on my food and I ate it accidentally :mad: ), but now it's in my saddle bag- although it may not do me much good back there. I try not to ride the same long route more than once a month (so as to not be predictable), I pay super close attention to my surroundings, and always make eye contact with people (I've heard that's a good thing to do- they don't think they can mess with you if you're staring them down). Also, even if it's daylight, I leave my rear taillight blinking on my bike. Anything to help cars notice me more is a good thing.

My family thinks I'm paranoid, but I don't care. I DO keep my front door locked when I'm home (you wouldn't believe the number of home invasions we've had around here recently- during the day with people home- crazy!!).

Other than that, I don't do much else. I just try to be aware of my surroundings and alert to things that make me feel uncomfortable or uneasy. I don't live in fear, but I try to do the best I can to protect myself. Just do the best you can to keep yourself safe (whatever that may be). You know your surroundings better than anyone.

[onimity]

The story about Kelsey Smith is very sad and a good reminder to all of us that we need to be safe. But there is a fine balance too, if we feel threatened enough that we restrict our own freedoms that is a negative too.

If someone is willing to injure a cyclist with a vehicle in order to abduct them, there isn't a lot you can plan to be able to do IMO, but I'd think such a scenario very unlikely unless the person has identified you as a victim in advance. It can be dangerous riding alone when roads are empty. I had a car follow me on my way to the bus stop (commuting after dark) a few months ago, I made 3 stops and the car was there each time and would pull out right after me.

So I'd say that the first step is to notice patterns like that. These sorts of attackers often watch a potential victim in advance, maybe days, maybe hours, maybe minutes. But if you notice in return, and let the person know that by making eye contact, that's the biggest defense you have. You have to keep an eye open in all directions and notice suspicious behavior before it becomes a problem. If you notice that someone seems to be watching/following you, report it to police and vary your usual pattern. And of course carry a cellphone when you ride.

Off your bike, be aware of where people are around you. Pay attention to your peripheral vision; protect your personal space. If someone a lot larger and stronger than you gets a good hold on you, your chances of escaping are not great. You have the best chance of preventing something like that from happening to you by reacting before you are physically restrained.

I took a few years of martial arts and that really gave me a lot of confidence in potentially dangerous situations. Don't get me wrong, I don't live under the delusion that I don't have to pay attention because I think I could kick the a$$ of anyone who tried to attack me. Quite the opposite, I learned my limits and my weaknesses, and how to work around them.

The things that I found extremely valuable (and you can learn these from a good self-defense class) were:

1) a greater sense of awareness, an ability to 'see' what sort of attack is coming from the preparation.

2) the ability to yell. It seems like it will be easy when attacked, but many people panic and can't get a sound out. And I don't just mean a little 'eek!' either, I mean yelling like a crazed psycho that is going to tear someone's eyeballs out. You have to practice that, you have to get over the embarrassment of yelling. The point is partially to attract attention of course, but the other aspect is that it can surprise an attacker enough that they can become momentarily flustered. And that's your chance for escape.

3) learn responses to basic attacks until you know them cold. The point here is not to fight back but to escape. What do you do when someone grabs your neck from behind? If you think about that after someone has grabbed your neck from behind it is already too late; you may have only seconds of consciousness left. You have to have a plan that is physical, not intellectual, which your body instinctively responds with. You don't have time to ponder the e-mail you read which suggested sticking your key in someone's gut. For this reason I'd suggest taking a self-defense course that gives you the chance to practice over time, to get routines down cold and to practice them in front of people who can evaluate your effectiveness.

My two cents,
Anne

[teigyr]

When I ride, I remain very aware of my surroundings and who is near me. I don't wear headphones and I'm always keeping track of who I passed and who is coming up behind me. I figure if there was a bad person, I could probably outride them unless they did something bad like bash me on the head or make me fall.

At home, when I lived alone, I was also concerned so I made sure I parked my car in view of my house. I also had cats so I figured they'd alert me to strange noises! They did but the noises turned out to be rats :mad:

At the mall or anywhere in public, I park my car near smaller cars and NOT near vans or large vehicles that hide my car from view. When I walk to my car, I usually will have my finger near the panic button on my car alarm. If I'm nervous, I'll have my cell phone out. I've been known to "talk on the phone" but not be on the phone if I have to walk by questionable people...ie say something like "oh, I see you! I'll be right there, I'm just walking by <insert landmark here>". Holding your keys between your fingers (ie one key between each finger) could make a marvelous weapon too.

It's all scary stuff. While I'm not living life in fear, I figure it's better to be proactive and lessen the chances of Bad Things happening.

Oh and when I ride alone, someone knows when I left and I'll call to check in periodically.

DH is worried about where I run in the mornings. It isn't a bad neighborhood and it's daylight so I'm ok with it but he'd prefer me to run in an area with less apartment buildings and more older and established homeowners. I might make the switch, it's all a matter of running in a different direction.

I might take a kickboxing/self-defense series of courses. The kickboxing would be for fun but this place also offers martial arts. I think it would be good to have a realistic view of what I can do if I have to.

[Python]

So I'd say that the first step is to notice patterns like that. These sorts of attackers often watch a potential victim in advance, maybe days, maybe hours, maybe minutes. But if you notice in return, and let the person know that by making eye contact, that's the biggest defense you have. You have to keep an eye open in all directions and notice suspicious behavior before it becomes a problem.

Off your bike, be aware of where people are around you. Pay attention to your peripheral vision; protect your personal space. If someone a lot larger and stronger than you gets a good hold on you, your chances of escaping are not great. You have the best chance of preventing something like that from happening to you by reacting before you are physically restrained.


The things that I found extremely valuable (and you can learn these from a good self-defense class) were:

1) a greater sense of awareness, an ability to 'see' what sort of attack is coming from the preparation.

2) the ability to yell. It seems like it will be easy when attacked, but many people panic and can't get a sound out. And I don't just mean a little 'eek!' either, I mean yelling like a crazed psycho that is going to tear someone's eyeballs out. You have to practice that, you have to get over the embarrassment of yelling. The point is partially to attract attention of course, but the other aspect is that it can surprise an attacker enough that they can become momentarily flustered. And that's your chance for escape.

3) learn responses to basic attacks until you know them cold. The point here is not to fight back but to escape. What do you do when someone grabs your neck from behind? If you think about that after someone has grabbed your neck from behind it is already too late; you may have only seconds of consciousness left. You have to have a plan that is physical, not intellectual, which your body instinctively responds with. You don't have time to ponder the e-mail you read which suggested sticking your key in someone's gut. For this reason I'd suggest taking a self-defense course that gives you the chance to practice over time, to get routines down cold and to practice them in front of people who can evaluate your effectiveness.

My two cents,
Anne

The eye contact is a very important one. Last year hubby and I were in town. He needed to get money out of the hole-in-the-wall. I'm always vigilant at these things - there's been too many muggings in our town at ATMs. While he was getting his money out, I clocked a rather unkempt youth standing about 15 yards away, watching my husband. I turned and glared at him. He slunk off and stopped about 30 yards away in the opposite direction. I glared at him again. He disappeared. We walked up round the corner of the street into the main shopping area and who do we see again (by this time I'd warned hubby), but the same youth. This time I glared at him again but said in a loud enough voice for him to hear "Oh, look. Here's the police". He took off.

When I trained in Karate, we were lucky enough to have extra lessons in Street Self Defence. Karate is very good for teaching you self-discipline etc. but that is in a Dojo where there is plenty of room to manouvre. Often situations arise in real life where you wouldn't have that luxury.

We were taught how to escape from someone who pounces on you from behind and puts their arm round your neck. Grab his little finger (the weakest finger) and break it. Yes break it. Don't be squeamish on that. He'll let go - you run like h*ll.

Grab his wrist and dig your thumb as hard as you can (nail preferably) into the soft part where the wrist meets the hand. There's a nerve in there. Try it on yourself and you'll see what I mean.

If you're wearing stilletto shoes, whack your heel right down his shin and embed the heel of the shoe in his foot. If you follow the shin down, you should embed the heel of the shoe in the right place. Ouch! That'll hurt him and give you time to make your escape.

If both your arms are free, elbow him in the gut. Use both arms. One to do the elbowing, the other to drive back the elbow doing the elbowing. Should knock the wind out of him.

If you can, grab him by the Family Jewels and twist HARD. He should go down. As he goes down, grab his head and drive your knee as hard as you can into his face. Then run.

Go for his eyes. Poke them hard. Again, don't be squeamish. Worry about that later. Even better if you have long nails. If he gets blinded that's HIS problem.

While doing any of the above, yell and scream like a banshee like Onimity says. Attackers don't like noise.

Above all, keep a cool and calculating head although that can be easier said than done.

There are other ways of disabling an attacker but these could kill (Onimity if she's a high enough grade in the Martial Arts will know what I mean).

With many attackers it is a power thing. Power over someone they perceive to be weaker than themselves.

That's what happened to me except I was a lot stronger than they perceived me to be and it turned the tables on them. They suddenly found out they'd bitten off far more than they could chew. I was lucky that night in that I knew how to defend myself, and I know how lucky I was. It could easily have had a different outcome.

[makbike]

I simply choose not to live in fear. This does not mean that I wander about with little concern for where I am at any given moments. I live in a rural area with few cyclists so if I want to ride I either have to pack my bike and gear into my car and make a 50 mile round trip to ride with others or I can ride solo. I've always felt safe in my community and every time my bike has broken down on the road someone has offered me assistance (to call or take me to town). I always carry my cell phone with me and have used it to call for a ride or help (911). I can either leave my home or I can be a prisoner in my home - I leave knowing that any given moment my life could change but I'd rather take that chance then to live in fear 24/7.

[PinkBike]

i ride at nite since i commute to my swing shift job.
ive had things thrown at me, people yell, people honk, and this is as i'm riding - lit up like the white house christmas tree - and as far right as i can get on the street.
i dont even let it bother me, i consider the source.
however, once i was waiting at a light, and a guy in a car (with a bunch of other guys OF COURSE) in a left turn lane all the way across the street yelled out "show me your ***s." i ignored him, but he got out of the car, started walking towards me screaming "I SAID SHOW ME YOUR ***S" and I just started pedalling down the street like crazy to get away. thats the most intimidated i've been.
hasnt stopped me from riding tho.

[Aggie_Ama]

Jenn- You are not paranoid. I live in a more rural area of our county now I haven't gotten the courage to ride alone by myself. I know living in fear isn't the answer, but I am just nervous. I can ride 2 miles from my house and be on an isolated country road. Good for no traffic, bad for anyone else witnessing anything.

[teigyr]

i
ive had things thrown at me, people yell, people honk, and this is as i'm riding - lit up like the white house christmas tree - and as far right as i can get on the street.
i dont even let it bother me, i consider the source.



You know what, DH and I went for a walk last night at around 10pm on a well-driven street and some people drove by throwing eggs out their car window! One hit my shoe, fortunately they had really bad aim.

People are annoying sometimes. But yeah, consider the source. I would have been a bit more concerned if I had been alone because the group in the car was yelling and kind of circling around. We didn't get their license plate, unfortunately.

[Veronica]

I don't like people. People are scum.

After our burgalries I didn't like leaving our house. But I hated allowing those pr!cks to steal even more from me - my piece of mind and my joy of riding.

Crummy things are going to happen to good people. Hiding away isn't going to keep them from happening. You have to keep living your life and doing what you love, otherwise, what's the point?

V.

[Mr. Bloom]

I really wish you all would carry mace on isolated rides.

I agree that we should not live in fear...but we must respect the possibilities and not take our safety for granted.

[Trekhawk]

I really wish you all would carry mace on isolated rides.

I agree that we should not live in fear...but we must respect the possibilities and not take our safety for granted.

I can't get my head around carrying something like that on a ride no matter how far in the boonies I go. I guess its probably because I come from Australia where mace is illegal.

[farrellcollie]

not sure what little girl you are talking about.




I don't know who she is either - I don't recall seeing or hearing anything about it.

[Jenn]

I really wish you all would carry mace on isolated rides.

I agree that we should not live in fear...but we must respect the possibilities and not take our safety for granted.


I need to find some!! Where would I mount it on my bike? I have 2 water cages, the pump, my computer on my bars,heart monitor....ugh...do they make one you can wear on your person?:confused:

[Aggie_Ama]

I was talking to DH last night about this and he said that he would prefer I not ride alone out here. Although he thinks I am safe, he said he would rather me be overly cautious. We have had a few incidents of people "picking on" us in rather large trucks, his fear is that petite woman alone (or any woman) would spear them to step it up a notch. I am always the first one they come upon and have had large trucks honk, swerve and throw things at me.

So while it is resigning my back roads to the morons, I stay safe. He has absolutely no problem with me riding in the areas that the other cyclists are out at alone. Ironically, the traffic volume is much higher there but much more tolerant of the cyclists.

[HoosierGiant]

I need to find some!! Where would I mount it on my bike? I have 2 water cages, the pump, my computer on my bars,heart monitor....ugh...do they make one you can wear on your person?:confused:

I always carry Halt! while on the bike -- we purchase it by the case from Performance Bike. Although originally marketed for use against dogs by mail carriers, delivery persons, etc., the only ingredient is capsaicin -- otherwise known as pepper spray, and equally effective. Being absolutely paranoid about these kinds of things, I've carried a mace/pepper spray combination on my keyring since my college days, but that's too long ago to even mention! While mace may not be permitted in some states, pepper spray probably is -- check your local regulations.

We have seen advertisements for holders for these devices, but they were mounted on the bars if I remember correctly. Not an option for me as I already have a Flight Deck and a Garmin residing there. I'll ask DH if he remembers where we saw the ads.

Halt! does have a clip on the side of the canister. Many cyclists in this area just slip the canister over an available cable, but I can't see my way clear to scuffing things up -- I'm vain when it comes to my beautiful bike! I used to ride with it clipped to the outside of a rear jersey pocket -- a visual clue to yut-yuts coming up from behind that I'm "armed" -- but getting it back on was almost an impossibility for me unless I stopped. (And who wants to do that?!) Ditto for clipping it to the waistband of shorts, although I have seen some riders who clip it to the hem of one of the legs so it's on top of the thigh. Not sure I could handle that.

I'm lucky in that the reflective strip across the back of my seat pack is a separate piece. Now I ride with my Halt! clipped there. Then it's a simply reach back to retrieve, and (because the seat pack material has more substance than that of clothing) I don't have any difficulties reattaching mid-ride. We live in a rural area with a gazillion dogs, the vast majority of which run loose -- as many as six per house :eek: -- so I've had lots of practice. And, that's the important part -- practice, practice, practice until that retrieval move is as second-nature as grabbing a water bottle.


http://www.performancebike.com/shop/Profile.cfm?SKU=11371&item=40-0616&slitrk=search&slisearch=truehttp://www.performancebike.com/shop/Profile.cfm?SKU=11371&item=40-0616&slitrk=search&slisearch=true

[Velobambina]

That's a good deal--$4.99 a bottle?

I carry pepper spray/mace and my cell phone--both in my jersey pocket. I ride alone & at times, either after sunset/before sunrise. MS-13 folks sometimes hang out along the trail where I ride, but aside from attempted arson to a wooden bridge & persistent tagging, there I haven't heard of any incidents to humans (not inside the beltway--apparently, there have been some attacks by gangs further west along the W&OD trail in the Ashburn/Herndon, VA area). The only annoying encounters have been cat calls from drunken cretins who drink/pass out in a park that abuts the trail. I just ignore them. My rule is be courteous, mind my own business, and hightail it outta there if I sense danger.

I agree with V, "Crummy things are going to happen to good people. Hiding away isn't going to keep them from happening. You have to keep living your life and doing what you love, otherwise, what's the point?"

[margo49]

I agree a lot of it is Body Language and looking like you're not to be messed with. But I dunno how a woman would cultivate that - being *born* with it myself if stories of my chilldhood are to be believed.
A friend of mine says there is a school of thought that a lot of people have an doggy/animal mentality. Whatever they perceive to be the power structure they accept and will fit in. So that if *you* project that you are the Top Predator *they* will be quite happy to fill in the roll of Bottom of the Food Chain, no questions asked. I think there is something in this but it is not the whole story 100&#37; of the time.
I also agree that yelling and getting angry are good tactix.
I keep my eyes open 360 degrees, noting what cars are passing and especially u-turns.
I have done that pretend talking on the mobile phone thing once in the middle of absolutely nowhere while this weird guy was following me (me on the bike and him in his vehicle; he had even done a u-turn and was now following me from behind after I had "passed" him going in the opposite direction so I knew he was up to no good). It worked and he drove off as I described where I was and how I was "about 10 or 15 min away" which I dunno if he heard or not. I had quick-dialled the SO and stated talking immediately which was just as well because he dint answer and phoned me back only 15 min later to see what I wanted. LOL! I coulda been cut up in lil' pieces by then! Funny in retro only of course! I am an advocate of the phone on a clip to the bars for this reason.
Sad to say, I think age is a part of it. My Mother asked me worriedly once and I told her "Yes, people do sometimes look and even whistle or shout . But as I draw closer they become less and less enthusiastic" (to understate the case)

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Yep, pepper spray (mace) right on my bike stem (vertically) attached with a small ball-end bungee cord. I can grab it in an instant. I take it in inside with me if I go to a store, cafe, etc. (don't want some little kid grabbing it and spraying themselves and then sueing me!)

Also I take my cell phone handy, with 911, DH, and local police numbers entered into both voice dial AND speed dial.

I also tell DH where I am going on every ride.

Once when I was riding a secluded wooded country road, and pickup truck passed me, then pulled over to the side of the road and stopped up ahead of me. I turned around and went back the other way instead of going closer and riding past him. The next week a guy in town saw me getting on my bike and he said "Hey I was the guy in the pickup truck who pulled over to read a map and made you turn around and go the other way last week. When you did that I realized you must have been scared of me and I felt real bad, but I couldn't very well turn around and follow you to tell you not to be afraid of me- that would have been even worse! I'm sorry!"....it was too sweet. :p

[Jenn]

All my jersey's have the zipper back pocket so I guess I just need to get one with open pockets at the back. I am DEFINATELY going to get the "halt" as you mentioned. I try to ALWAYS be aware of my surroudings and am constantly looking around me, it drives DH nuts, but that is just me.:o

Now if I could just learn how to look back without swerving into the road I'd be ok!;)

[mimitabby]

Hey Jenn, get a mirror! I have one on my helmet.

There simply isn't enough room in my head to worry about all this stuff. The idea of riding down a road where there is NO BODY is a little frightening, because if i crashed (not likely) no one would come to rescue me.. (especially if there's no cell signal)
Jenn, if your neighborhood is safe enough to live in and raise kids, it ought to be safe enough to ride your bike!
I live in a big crazy city. I don't have a problem walking the streets at night,
(the sidewalks :D ) or riding my bike in the daytime. I do even ride at night sometimes, it scares me because of visibility.

I am someone who fights fear all the time. You have to, or you'll end up locked in your house, afraid to go out.

[surgtech1956]

Bike Nashbar has a Halt Holder.

[Jenn]

Hey Jenn, get a mirror! I have one on my helmet.

There simply isn't enough room in my head to worry about all this stuff. The idea of riding down a road where there is NO BODY is a little frightening, because if i crashed (not likely) no one would come to rescue me.. (especially if there's no cell signal)
Jenn, if your neighborhood is safe enough to live in and raise kids, it ought to be safe enough to ride your bike!
I live in a big crazy city. I don't have a problem walking the streets at night,
(the sidewalks :D ) or riding my bike in the daytime. I do even ride at night sometimes, it scares me because of visibility.

I am someone who fights fear all the time. You have to, or you'll end up locked in your house, afraid to go out.

Well, we live on the base, so we are pretty safe, but where I d my hill training, it is VERY isolated way out at the back of the base. Since I usually only get to ride on weekends while DH watches the little one, I'm out there alone. The erie thing, is last time I was out there this truck passed me 3 times, it DID make me pedal a heck of ALOT faster to get back to the main part of the base where there are "people". I've been thinking about a mirror I may have to get one.
Surgtech, thanks for the info, I love Nashbar, so I'll take a look!!

[kahnartist]

Mace is not that easy to find...but you can find it a gun shops and gun shows. Pepper spray is the 'weapon of choice' and that is EASILY found at any drug store chain or Sams Club possibly. I carry one in my purse, and you probably could keep in your tool bag. They are no bigger than a small cigar.
They can clip on your key ring...and come in all sorts of ways: a clip to carry it on your person, on a necklace (one of those convention types with the logo's on them). If that will give you some 'more' peace of mind, by all means, make the $9.00 purchase. Also, Pepper Spray (unlike Mace) does not expire....so you can keep it for any length of time. They also sell larger home/car ones...bigger like a can of hair spray.

Of course, laws vary in each state. You can't just 'spray' someone because they give you the creeps.

I'd also take a class in self-defence...as many have suggested. You can do this at community colleges or at a local Karate/Kung Fu/Ti Kwon do dojo. They're all in your yellow pages. Heck, even the YWCA has some.

Good luck and be 'viligant'. I'm not sure where you are located, but growing up in Los Angeles...I got 'street smarts' FAST being in a big city and taking public transportation most of my teen life.

I hate to say it, but you do need to be CAUTIOUS in this day and age...it could save your life.

[Jenn]

I just read a post...."Mace" illegal?? Are you kidding me, that is ridiculous! Ohh, yea, we need to be concerned about people that are going to try and harm us!:rolleyes:

[Trekhawk]

Well, we live on the base, so we are pretty safe, but where I d my hill training, it is VERY isolated way out at the back of the base. Since I usually only get to ride on weekends while DH watches the little one, I'm out there alone. The erie thing, is last time I was out there this truck passed me 3 times, it DID make me pedal a heck of ALOT faster to get back to the main part of the base where there are "people". I've been thinking about a mirror I may have to get one.
Surgtech, thanks for the info, I love Nashbar, so I'll take a look!!

WOW Jenn Im sorry you still feel unsafe even on a military base. I often take my bike down to the base here to ride as its nice to do some flat stuff for a change. I have done some longer rides out there (60-75 miles) and to manage this without riding the same roads over and over I ride every little road I can find including the ones that head out into the boonies. I have always felt completely at ease. My husband loves it when I ride down there because he doesnt worry about me at all. Im sad that it seems not all military bases are this way.:(

[Aggie_Ama]

Hey Jenn, get a mirror! I have one on my helmet.

There simply isn't enough room in my head to worry about all this stuff. The idea of riding down a road where there is NO BODY is a little frightening, because if i crashed (not likely) no one would come to rescue me.. (especially if there's no cell signal)


Mimi- This is why I have decided against riding alone. We did a ride last weekend where in 20 miles I saw 3 houses and 5 cars. Can you imagine? Even if it wasn't sinister, something could happen and NO ONE would know. I mean how many times do you hear about people wrecking with wildlife? The part of the county where I live it is safer to only ride with DH or an organized ride.

[mimitabby]

either mace or pepperspray would not be something i want in my face.
Here's the deal, you spray mean man in face. He grabs your spray and sprays you back!
Maybe he wasn't going to hurt you. maybe he just wanted to ask you directions, who knows. but now he's mad and bigger than you.

[Trekhawk]

Isn't it interesting how different we all are. I never worry about riding deserted areas on my road bike. I figure if I crash well sooner or later someone will find me and yes I do ride on roads with little traffic and sometimes not a single house for miles. Now mountain biking is a different story for me. I will not mountain bike out here unless I have someone with me. Between Cougars, drug makers and the fact that I crash nearly every ride it just doesn't seem wise.

[li10up]

A few years ago the mid-sized town I live in had the highest murder rate per capita in the country. I too am very aware of my surroundings when I am alone...either on my bike or out shopping, etc. But sometimes I think we are scaring ourselves too much; seeing crime and criminals in every shadow. Case in point: The other day DH goes to Wal-Mart to pick something up. He was in there about 15 minutes. He starts walking back to the car and is fishing for his keys and can't find them. He then thinks, "Damn, I locked them in the car." He gets to the car...the car is running with the door unlocked. He must have been distracted (seriously!) and just got out and walked into the store. Even in a town with it's share of crime nobody took off in the car.

I agree - know how to protect yourself. So, be aware but don't live in fear.

[onimity]

Amanda, that would definitely drive me crazy. I may be happily ignorant but I just don't think that a woman is necessarily in more danger alone. Yes, there are the psychopaths out there looking for a vulnerable victim but to my mind that's not terribly common. I could ride by a sniper or be on a bus that gets bombed. But the risk of these things has never been enough to keep me home. I can go anywhere a man can. I just figure that if I do what I can to ensure my safety and then happily and confidently go where I please things will work out OK.

In terms of rude behavior from cars and the like, I don't think that you are more likely to get that because you are female or riding alone. I have traveled a lot alone throughout the world. I went on a trip through Chile, Bolivia, Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay last year and people freaked out when they heard I was traveling alone. I did occasionally travel with others throughout the trip but I honestly felt safer alone than with, particularly, a male traveling companion. With a male, I'd get ripped off, argued with, etc. Alone, people bent over backwards to help me and went to extraordinary lengths to ensure my safety. I think that males, excluding of course serial killers/rapists, are much more likely to be aggressive toward other males and they often feel sorry for and protective of a woman alone. I have nothing scientific to back that up, it has just been my experience.

Python, I trained in Taekwon-Do (ITF) up to my high green belt. I moved at that point and couldn't find a place to train. We had a strong self-defense bent to our training as well, we did self-defense as a part of every class and our belt testings. We practiced releases for all sorts of grabs and then more detailed routines for different scenarios. I had three at my rank, a grab from behind (bear hug and neck grab) an attack from the front (bear hug and neck) and an arm grab from the side or across the body. We used a lot of the things that you mentioned, but I think that the most important thing they drilled into us was to get your chin to your chest so that you can breathe and get blood to your brain. Our instructors would regularly come up behind us when we least expected it and go for a neck grab to drill it into us (with pushups if we failed). We learned a sequence of attacks with the idea that you took off whenever you got the attacker off of you. We learned some tactics that would potentially be deadly if executed correctly but of course those were further along in the sequence. We also did an elbow to the lower ribs for an attack from behind and practiced with boards so we knew we could break them. Also they taught us to slam the rear of our heads into their face as it is disorienting to the attacker. We followed that with a throw. The foot-stomping trick is a good one. A few times partners executed that too accurately and it really hurts. I can't imagine the pain of a full-force attack with a nice pair of heels on!

For those using mace/pepper spray, it is good that you are taking precautions to protect yourselves and it should go without being said but make sure that you know how to use it and when. I think it is important to practice scenarios and realize when it can help you and when it is pretty useless. What is the point where you use it? And remember that it can be taken from you, it can be used on you as well. The benefit of learning how to protect yourself and working through scenarios is that it gives you confidence that you can take care of yourself and that confidence in turn makes you less likely to be a target.

Anne

[Jenn]

Wow....well, If I am conscience after being run down, I pray to the "higher power" that I have at least enough strength to protect myself.

Once again, I am a source of debate.....which was my FAVORITE topic in college....but on here.....dang:( it's a scary world.:(

[Aggie_Ama]

Anne- Well, I know I can go anywhere a man can and my husband is far from the type to tell me not to. Personally I don't want him out alone on the roads by our house but I can't stop that either. He simply agreed that my concerns about how rural the area I would be riding in warrants my concern of riding alone. It could be something like an attack (unlikely) or simply a wreck where it is quite a long time before anyone knows it happened.

And the rude people come up on me first and have done it when I am riding alone. They are rude to who ever they want to be rude to, but I tend to startle easy and that is what I don't like. The county roads are narrow and there are times the large trucks around here intentionally crowd me off just for a juvenile laugh.

I don't think there are people out there praying on me. Although, the incident with Jenny Ewing last proved it could happen and that is the sad part. It is personal preference and I prefer a riding buddy now that I live in a rural area. Luckily, it is rare that I do not have that option.

On a side note- My former boss was an avid MALE cyclist who said he would not ride alone. Simple reason, his friend got hit by car and no one knew for quite some time. No one could even tell him what happened.

[teigyr]

This is a fascinating thread. It makes sense that some of the risks wouldn't be from cars or other people but from other hazards. I tend to ride on well-traveled MUTs but don't carry any kind of ID with me which is bad. I always have my cell phone but I guess that doesn't help if someone was trying to figure out my emergency contact.

I always tend to lessen the risk on myself by saying (when DH gets concerned) "oh, I do this ride all the time. I'm ok" while I know I would get concerned if DH was riding far away on his own.

I guess a lot of what we're learning here could be used in planning for rides, such as contacting someone to let them know we're going and knowing what to do should something happen.

[Mr. Bloom]

From The Great Gatsby a dialogue between Tom and Daisy:


"you're a rotten driver", [Tom] protested, "either you ought to be more careful or you oughtn't drive at all"

"I am careful"

"No You're Not"

"Well, OTHER PEOPLE ARE", she said lightly

"What's that got to do with it?"

"they'll keep out of my way" she insisted, "It takes two to make an accident"

"suppose you met someone just as careless as yourself"

"I hope I never will" she answered...

Those familiar with the book know that Daisy met that random person that triggered a tragic chain of events later in the book...substitute a few words and you summarize this debate in a nutshell

Please, Please, Please: Be prepared for the worse that society has to offer. It may be a random event, and a small probability...but violence is rampant in our world.

Forget worrying about a scratch on the bike, carry something that helps to keep you safer. All you're trying to do is make yourself a more difficult target.

[Python]

Also they taught us to slam the rear of our heads into their face as it is disorienting to the attacker.

The benefit of learning how to protect yourself and working through scenarios is that it gives you confidence that you can take care of yourself and that confidence in turn makes you less likely to be a target.

Anne

Only snag with that is if you are like me, 5ft zilch and the would-be attacker is 6ft 6in...ain't goin' to reach so I tend to aim low. Another good place to get someone if you can is down the inside of the thigh. Nerve runs down there. Good hard kick can drop an assailant. That's where I kicked one of my assailants when I was a taxi driver and followed it up with another kick to the back of the same leg. He limped off down an alleyway and disappeared. Helped that I'd steel toe-cap shoes on toohttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/fionakidd/evil.gif

I think that confidence does make you less likely to be a target. Most attackers/muggers will pick on people who either are vulnerable or look vulnerable.

Over here in the UK we're not allowed to carry mace sprays or anything that could be interpreted as an "offensive weapon". Our laws are completely useless, thanks to the present government and their hangers-on who favour the criminal above the victim. Here, if someone breaks into your house and you catch them, if you hit them you will be arrested and charged with assault:eek: That then lets the criminal sue you for damages!:mad: There have been many cases of that happening in recent years.

There is a policy at the moment of not jailing criminals - even those with a criminal record longer than your arm so criminals are sticking two fingers up at the law (and everyone else) and getting away with it. Life imprisonment here doesn't mean life. It means getting out after 4, 5 years or whatever some do-gooder decides. Criminals know they can do what they want and get away with it - even committing murder.

Law and Order in the UK is a farce at the moment:mad:

[Dianyla]

I highly recommend that you read The Gift Of Fear (http://www.amazon.com/Gift-Fear-Survival-Signals-Violence/dp/0747538352/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-9916890-9030357?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1181345434&sr=8-1), by Gavin De Becker. He talks a lot about the power dynamic that comes into play as attackers select their victim, and how to spot some early warning signs. Also, how to use your fear as positive motivation to avoid/escape a dangerous situation, as opposed to being paralyzed by it. It should be required reading for men and women alike.

[Starfish]

I do not want to start a firestorm here, but I am curious if anyone carries any weapons aside from mace or pepper spray?

[Jolt]

The eye contact is a very important one. Last year hubby and I were in town. He needed to get money out of the hole-in-the-wall. I'm always vigilant at these things - there's been too many muggings in our town at ATMs. While he was getting his money out, I clocked a rather unkempt youth standing about 15 yards away, watching my husband. I turned and glared at him. He slunk off and stopped about 30 yards away in the opposite direction. I glared at him again. He disappeared. We walked up round the corner of the street into the main shopping area and who do we see again (by this time I'd warned hubby), but the same youth. This time I glared at him again but said in a loud enough voice for him to hear "Oh, look. Here's the police". He took off.

When I trained in Karate, we were lucky enough to have extra lessons in Street Self Defence. Karate is very good for teaching you self-discipline etc. but that is in a Dojo where there is plenty of room to manouvre. Often situations arise in real life where you wouldn't have that luxury.

We were taught how to escape from someone who pounces on you from behind and puts their arm round your neck. Grab his little finger (the weakest finger) and break it. Yes break it. Don't be squeamish on that. He'll let go - you run like h*ll.

Grab his wrist and dig your thumb as hard as you can (nail preferably) into the soft part where the wrist meets the hand. There's a nerve in there. Try it on yourself and you'll see what I mean.

If you're wearing stilletto shoes, whack your heel right down his shin and embed the heel of the shoe in his foot. If you follow the shin down, you should embed the heel of the shoe in the right place. Ouch! That'll hurt him and give you time to make your escape.

If both your arms are free, elbow him in the gut. Use both arms. One to do the elbowing, the other to drive back the elbow doing the elbowing. Should knock the wind out of him.

If you can, grab him by the Family Jewels and twist HARD. He should go down. As he goes down, grab his head and drive your knee as hard as you can into his face. Then run.

Go for his eyes. Poke them hard. Again, don't be squeamish. Worry about that later. Even better if you have long nails. If he gets blinded that's HIS problem.

While doing any of the above, yell and scream like a banshee like Onimity says. Attackers don't like noise.

Above all, keep a cool and calculating head although that can be easier said than done.

There are other ways of disabling an attacker but these could kill (Onimity if she's a high enough grade in the Martial Arts will know what I mean).

With many attackers it is a power thing. Power over someone they perceive to be weaker than themselves.

That's what happened to me except I was a lot stronger than they perceived me to be and it turned the tables on them. They suddenly found out they'd bitten off far more than they could chew. I was lucky that night in that I knew how to defend myself, and I know how lucky I was. It could easily have had a different outcome.

Good tips. I do have to disagree in a way with the one about stiletto heels though--my advice would be DON'T WEAR THEM!! They may make a stomp to the foot extra painful for the creep, but they also hinder your ability to run and get the heck away from the situation (and not to mention they're just plain uncomfortable anyway). In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if wearing such shoes actually makes one more of a target, all other things being equal, because it's obvious that escape will be more difficult than for someone in flats or sneakers.

[RolliePollie]

I tend to ride on well-traveled MUTs but don't carry any kind of ID with me which is bad. I always have my cell phone but I guess that doesn't help if someone was trying to figure out my emergency contact.



I have a hard time remembering to bring my ID with me on rides, so I made a photocopy of my Driver's License and my health insurance card and wrote all my emergency contact information on the same bright colored piece of paper. I put it right in the back of my seat bag so it practically falls out when you unzip it. Of course, you can't be sure someone would look in your seat bag, but at least it's always there. I also have a little label inside my helmet with basic emergency info. And I carry my cell phone (although it doesn't work worth beans around here!).

99&#37; of my rides are solo. I ride rural roads and feel pretty safe...but I certanly don't take it for granted. I've been screamed at, honked at, and even had someone reach their arm out the car window and grab at me (now THAT about scared me to death!). Sometimes I think the poor pavement conditions are actually my biggest danger. I also live alone so no one would miss me if I didn't return from a ride. Friends and family know which roads I ride but I don't necessarily let someone know when I'm out riding. I try to be careful and aware, but I refuse to let fear keep me from doing things alone. Some of the worst injuries and accidents over my lifetime have been while doing what would be considered safe activities. I do get scared out there on the road though. My biggest fear is dogs and I'm going pepper spray shopping this weekend!

[RolliePollie]

I do not want to start a firestorm here, but I am curious if anyone carries any weapons aside from mace or pepper spray?

No, but my friend jokes around about carrying a handgun...kept in plain sight on the left hip, of course!

[Aggie_Ama]

No, but my friend jokes around about carrying a handgun...kept in plain sight on the left hip, of course!

I keep teasing DH if these Ford F250s (the big trucks) keep running up on me I am getting a concealed handgun license!!! That might level the playing field. :p

[margo49]

I actually feel safer alone when there is noone around.
I mean there is noone around, geddit.

[Mr. Bloom]

I keep teasing DH if these Ford F250s (the big trucks) keep running up on me I am getting a concealed handgun license!!! That might level the playing field. :p

Aiming at the tires, of course;)

[rij73]

All I can say is that this thread is making me really happy I live in the city. No matter where I go, hundreds of people are there also, and there is virtually zero possibility of being assaulted or even harrassed in any serious way. My fitness riding is in the park where you are going around in circles with a hundred other cyclists, joggers, and roller-bladers going around in circles. I feel so safe all the time. I walk my dog around the neighborhood at 11pm, and I run into others walking their dogs, couples coming home from dinner, etc., etc. I have never felt that I was isolated enough for anyone to get away with an assault.

My sister in rural PA, and my mom in rural FLA, freak out that I ride the bike "alone" and walk the dog "alone". What they don't seem to understand is how much safer it is in the city than where they live. I'm visiting my mom right now, and I honestly couldn't imagine going off on a bike ride here. Too isolated by far...

For those of you who do not feel safe... Follow your instincts, and be as prepared as possible. But, try not to let the fear keep you down. That's letting the bad guys win. If I had no choice but to live in a rural or quiet area, I would take self-defense classes and carry some kind of weapon handy. I carried mace in college.

[Starfish]

All I can say is that this thread is making me really happy I live in the city.

I'm visiting my mom right now, and I honestly couldn't imagine going off on a bike ride here. Too isolated by far...

For those of you who do not feel safe... Follow your instincts, and be as prepared as possible. But, try not to let the fear keep you down. That's letting the bad guys win.

We are all very different, aren't we!?! (As it should be.) I have lived in both very urban and very rural environments. I always feel safer in the rural settings, but the possibility of a threat exists in both. I have known people who have been both raped and killed in the urban environment. I have known people who have been the victims of home invasion crime in the rural setting.

We're all different, and the urban threats make me more nervous. And, I know that I would not want to give up those incredible rides out in the country alone, when I stop and all I can hear is the wind, and all I can see is an eagle overhead, or an elk at a river.

When I lived rurally, without electricity or phone (and no cell phone reception), I slept with the cabin secured, and myself in a loft. The only way up there was a hole in the floor of the loft. I kept a gun, used it regularly to stay fresh, and was fully prepared (I believe, at least...never having been put to the test) to use it on anyone who woke me up in the night by breaking through my doors, ignoring my warning yells, and sticking their head up through my hole in the floor. My brother thinks I'm nuts for not using the same philosophy by carrying a small handgun on the bike with me, not letting anyone get close enough to take it away and use it on me. We both know people who have been left alone in harrassment situations after revealing they were armed.

I'm know I'm not ready for that on the bike, yet. I'm still not sure I could use it in the harder to read situations outside home defense. But, depending on circumstances changing in the future, I would consider it.

[Jenn]

I actually feel safer alone when there is noone around.
I mean there is noone around, geddit.

EXACTLY...there is NO ONE around. You are running 25 with a tailwind, they are running 40 slam into you..........that's it........game over...sorry but I REFUSE to be that.
If you can't leave Target, as (bless her heart) Kelsey Smith in BROAD DAYLIGHT what are we suppse to do??:(
I am fortunate, living on a military base....I'm a "little" safer.....not much trust me..however, I will do whatever it takes, to ensure, safety and to be able to come back home to my HUSBAND and CHILD!

[Veronica]

EXACTLY...there is NO ONE around. You are running 25 with a tailwind, they are running 40 slam into you..........that's it........game over...sorry but I REFUSE to be that.
If you can't leave Target, as (bless her heart) Kelsey Smith in BROAD DAYLIGHT what are we suppse to do??:(
I am fortunate, living on a military base....I'm a "little" safer.....not much trust me..however, I will do whatever it takes, to ensure, safety and to be able to come back home to my HUSBAND and CHILD!


So what are you going to do Jenn, hole up in your house? You can't ensure anyone's safety, all you can do is manage your risk. As Mimi said a meteor could fall on your house.

My advice stop focusing on the high profile risks, like Kelsey. Think about the real risks in your life - diet, exercise, smoke free environment, sunscreen, seatbelts...

If you truly think violence is the biggest risk to you or your family, get a concealed weapons permit and be prepared to use the pistol to defend yourself.

V.

[Fredwina]

"those how would give up a little freedom for a little security deserve neither"
Ben Franklin
I agree with Veronica. There is no such thing as a "risk-Free" life. and the mainstream is very much "if it Bleeds, it leads". I didn't even learn about the Lady in KS until I saw discuss that. That's what I get for getting my news from the LA times and NPR.

[salsabike]

I 100% agree with Dianyla. It is an excellent book. Also, see if there's a class around in basic safety. The Redmond Police Department did one last year taught by a cop that was great. And if you want to carry something, make it pepper spray, not mace--cop's recommendation. But make sure it's one that is powerful enough to shoot out the spray 6-8 feet. I think Halt may do that. Bear pepper spray is what you'd want to look for.


I highly recommend that you read The Gift Of Fear (http://www.amazon.com/Gift-Fear-Survival-Signals-Violence/dp/0747538352/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-9916890-9030357?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1181345434&sr=8-1), by Gavin De Becker. He talks a lot about the power dynamic that comes into play as attackers select their victim, and how to spot some early warning signs. Also, how to use your fear as positive motivation to avoid/escape a dangerous situation, as opposed to being paralyzed by it. It should be required reading for men and women alike.

[Jenn]

So what are you going to do Jenn, hole up in your house? You can't ensure anyone's safety, all you can do is manage your risk. As Mimi said a meteor could fall on your house.

My advice stop focusing on the high profile risks, like Kelsey. Think about the real risks in your life - diet, exercise, smoke free environment, sunscreen, seatbelts...

If you truly think violence is the biggest risk to you or your family, get a concealed weapons permit and be prepared to use the pistol to defend yourself.

V.

Wow.....the anger.....Tell her parentts that, and I'll make sure my 16 month old is packing.What BS....

[Kano]

I'm pretty sure that if we get hit by a car that's going 40mph, it's not going to matter how many people are around.

I've gone to Target thousands of times in the last 42 years (didn't know it existed before then), and every single time, I've gotten home safely. I think that speaks well of my chances for safe returns for the next 42 years....

Events like either of those are pretty rare. Scary things happen a little more often, Unfortunately, illness happens on mostly daily basis -- I have decided I'm living a charmed life as far as health goes, since it seems like everyone around me has some sort of stuff going on!

While I'd prefer to come home to my family every time I go out into the world, I think I'd prefer to go out doing something I love, or at least something quick and surprising, than to "inflict lingering" on them.

Karen in Boise

[crazycanuck]

Please ensure you don't spend your whole life paranoid! Gee, stop bubble wrapping yourself against society and go out and live.

Just keep your eyes open & if someone does say something weird to ya, don't respond and move on. Think rather than react.

I agree with V.

C

[Velobambina]

The events of 9/11 really show that none of us are immune, even in the "safety" of our offices (The Pentagon is a secure building but that didn't stop someone from flying a plane into it).

I agree with Veronica, Kano, and Canuck.

Life is hard enough without making it more difficult by worrying about "what ifs." Enjoy what makes you happy and try to respect & be kind to everyone, even folks who might not agree w/your opinions.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Wow.....the anger.....Tell her parentts that, and I'll make sure my 16 month old is packing.What BS....

Who's anger? If you come on a forum and ask people's advice and opinions on something, you shouldn't call their replies "BS". Veronica's advice was valid, thoughtful and polite.

[Eden]

Who's anger? If you come on a forum and ask people's advice and opinions on something, you shouldn't call their replies "BS". Veronica's advice was valid, thoughtful and polite.

Have to agree with V as well. Life's too short to be worrying about ending up on this week's unsolved crime show... I would guess that you probably have about as much chance of being hit by lightening (and as we have maybe two, three thunder storms a year at the most in this area the chance of being hit is pretty remote...) as being taken by a serial killer, so I just can't live my life in fear of something like that.

As far as Jenn goes - I don't know if she's still lurking or not since she started a thread to tell us all that she was leaving (but she did that once before too....), but if she is - frankly I think you totally overreact when you post and someone puts up an opionion that you did not want to hear. It's not an attack - its an opinion that differs from your own and the poster has a right to it. If you only want people to confirm what you are all ready sure that you know maybe an open, diverse, worldwide forum is not the best place to seek advice.... And compared to many other forums this is a real sanctuary, without the insincere BS and name calling that goes on on a lot of other boards. From what I've seen no one has posted anything I would construe as rude or offensive towards you.

[Python]

To throw my tuppenceworth into the melting pot.

I've said this before, but if we were to worry about what might happen, we'd never get out of our beds in the morning.

As for the possible threat of violence. We have a big problem with that in the UK just now, thanks to a government that's soft on crime.

However, I'll be blowed if I'm going to pussyfoot around, be afraid to go out alone, on the bike, walking or whatever. The day I become afraid of living my life how I want to, go where I want, when I want to is the day the pondlife and scum of this country win, and so long as I am able to I will not allow that to happen.

[SouthernBelle]

I clicked and asked that the "Goodbye Cruel Forum" post be removed and it's looks to be gone.

Hey, if ya wanna leave, just leave.

[Python]

:eek:

I think this is one of the friendliest forums there is.

Of course there will be differences of opinion and not everyone will agree with everyone else. That's life, but to take opinions to heart and throw teddy out of the pram is, well, a bit childish to say the least. Sometimes it's best to agree to disagree.

I suppose some people are just too easily offended.

[Starfish]

Have to agree with V as well. Life's too short to be worrying about ending up on this week's unsolved crime show... I would guess that you probably have about as much chance of being hit by lightening (and as we have maybe two, three thunder storms a year at the most in this area the chance of being hit is pretty remote...) as being taken by a serial killer, so I just can't live my life in fear of something like that.



Completely agree. Also completely agree that this is a wonderful forum. I'm so grateful to all of you!

[Aggie_Ama]

Maybe this thread should be closed??? The difference in opinions is what I enjoy about the forum, as it often asks me to think of a situation differently. Somehow this thread took a wrong turn.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Maybe this thread should be closed??? The difference in opinions is what I enjoy about the forum, as it often asks me to think of a situation differently. Somehow this thread took a wrong turn.

I don't know, there is some valid and useful advice that came up in this thread. It certainly is a subject that is good to discuss. Seems to me there is nothing THAT awful in the thread that would make it necessary to erase the whole thing. But then again safety issues will all be brought up again eventually anyway in one thread or another.
I did find it interesting that some of us feel safer when there is NO ONE around, while others feel safer when there are other people around.
I also learned that "bear pepper spray" shoots 8 ft, further than "regular" dog pepper spray (which shot about 4 feet in my field test)- a good thing to know!

That poor woman near me in Albany NY who was hit and killed by a car last week had no ID on her at all, and it took 2 or 3 days I think before police were able to find out who she was and notify her family. :( Shows how important it is for us all to have ID of some sort when we ride, for one thing.

[SouthernBelle]

:eek:

[B] That's life, but to take opinions to heart and throw teddy out of the pram is, well, a bit childish to say the least.


I've never heard the teddy phrase before. I love it.

[Mr. Bloom]

I don't know, there is some valid and useful advice that came up in this thread. It certainly is a subject that is good to discuss.

I agree...it reminded me to check on Silver's pepper spray status.


Mr. Silver: "Silver, do you have your pepper spray on your bike"
Silver: "No, but I know where it is":)
Mr. Silver: "What good will that do?":confused:
Silver: "I just have to figure out what to do with it":cool:
Mr. Silver: "Well, did you think it might be better to carry it?":rolleyes:
Silver: "Yep, I like that post's suggestion of putting it on my saddle pack"
Mr. Silver: "How will you reach it if a dog is charging at you?":(
Silver: " OH ":rolleyes: Glad we had the discussion.

I don't think we should live in fear.

I do think we should be alert and prepared.

We should not FEAR what could happen.

But, we must RESPECT the possibilities. That's why we wear helmets, stop at stops, etc

[SouthernBelle]

I've not come up with a way to carry my pepper spray prior to seeing the carrier that was mentioned earlier in the thread. Saddle bag is useless. Back pocket you have to get it and make sure you are spraying in the right direction. I been using my bento which is ok, still gotta rip the cover off and spray in the right direction. The clip on the can needs to clip tighter and I could just use the side of the bento.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Silver: "Yep, I like that post's suggestion of putting it on my saddle pack"
Mr. Silver: "How will you reach it if a dog is charging at you?":(
Silver: " OH ":rolleyes: [/INDENT]Glad we had the discussion.


For what it's worth: I have one of those little bungee loops that has a ball at one end, it's about 3" long. I loop it around the VERTICAL part of my stem and slip my pepper spray into only one loop vertically, so the spray container is upright, parallel along the stem. Mine has a flip-top to prevent one spraying towards oneself- you can only spray it in one direction when you flip the top up. Tip: do NOT leave the spray on your bike if you pop into a store for a moment- so little kids cannot get to it at all. The bungee is good because 1) it does not gunk up or scratch your bike finish and 2) the spray is easy to yank out quickly, and easy to put back in the bungee loop. Don't slip the spary through both loops- just one so that the other loop keeps the spray cannister from rattling against your bike while you ride. Test your spray once for just a second or two out in your yard (on a windless day!) so you know it works and you have an idea of how it sprays- mine is like a jet stream, not a "spray". My two cents.

[Starfish]

I haven't done this, as I don't carry pepper spray, yet. But, I sometimes carry other stuff right up underneath the bottom hem of my shorts on one leg or the other. For instance, in the gym, I'll tuck my ipod nano up under the bottom of a shorts leg, and it works great. Stays in place through biking, elliptical training, ab work on the floor, etc.

Might be a way to have quick access.

[HoosierGiant]

I think I'm the one who originally posted about carrying pepper spray attached to the reflective strip on the rear of my saddle bag. For some, it may not be an option; for me, it works wonderfully! I can reach back, grab, and spray in under two seconds -- not that this is a quick-draw type of thing though -- and I mean dead-on, in-the-mutt's-face accuracy. We've logged scads of miles on these country roads, and that means we're very familiar with the location of the various canines: the friendly ones that simply want an excuse to run through the ditch and chase something for two miles before heading back home; the tiny, little (redundant, I know) yappers that have a genetic predisposition toward running under your wheels; the ones who give chase from behind a fence (invisible or otherwise) and pose absolutely no threat; and the vicious snarlers that want nothing more than to latch onto a piece of you. Knowing what is about to accost us provides us the luxury of already having Halt! in-hand when needed. When riding in unfamiliar territory, I am always on the look-out for evidence indicating a dog might be on the premises so that I am not caught unaware. Additionally, unless it's a stealth chaser (and we've encountered a few), most dogs will announce their intention to chase by barking -- providing you with more than ample time to retrieve pepper spray, etc., from wherever you have it stashed.

Anyway, what's feasible for me might not be an option for you. That's what makes these forums so wonderful -- sooner or later someone will come up with the perfect solution for your particular set of circumstances.

Happy tailwinds to you all!

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

...I sometimes carry other stuff right up underneath the bottom hem of my shorts on one leg or the other. For instance, in the gym, I'll tuck my ipod nano up under the bottom of a shorts leg, and it works great. Stays in place through biking, elliptical training, ab work on the floor, etc.

My DH always tucks a $20 bill under his biking shorts leg hem when we go riding to breakfast. I'm always tempted to sneak up and tuck an extra bill in his shorts. :eek: :D :D


Might be a way to have quick access.

Indeed! :D

[Starfish]

My DH always tucks a $20 bill under his biking shorts leg hem when we go riding to breakfast. I'm always tempted to sneak up and tuck an extra bill in his shorts. :eek: :D :D


(Quick Hijack)
I have to admit, although there is absolutely nothing racy about fat me putting my ipod in my shorts about 2 inches up from my knee...still I always feel a little like I'm tucking something under the strap of my garter belt when I'm at the gym! LOL :p

[Aggie_Ama]

I don't know, there is some valid and useful advice that came up in this thread. It certainly is a subject that is good to discuss. Seems to me there is nothing THAT awful in the thread that would make it necessary to erase the whole thing.

I agree, just wanted to see the discussion back on track. ;)

Curiousity.... How comfortable are you pepper spray packing ladies at using it? Did you buy a bottle for practice? Or are you just assuming you will be able to use it when needed? I would like to let DH rest easier and ride on my own but I would probably end up pepper spraying myself! I learned with my CO2 that just because something is easy doesn't mean I won't find a way to make it hard. We have had a rabies outbreak in my county and aside from big ol' trucks and creepy ol' people there are rabid dogs. Wow, I am making my little piece of Texas paradise sound awful.

[SouthernBelle]

Prior to carrying Halt, I carried a less toxic citrus spray. A friend and I started being chased one day by 3 dogs through a corner and I ripped out that spray and nailed them. It kept them away but it wasn't a evil enough spray to completely run then off. That's why I changed to halt.

[Tri Girl]

Is is just mace that's illegal in some states? How do you find out? Halt isn't mace, is it? (it's the dog repellent kind, right?) I should ask DH- he used to carry some on his postal bag when he had a route a long time ago that had "attack" dogs on it.
I used to carry pepper spray all the time, but have gotten less stringent about carrying it (complacent, unfortunately). I better go buy some more today- thanks for the reminder ladies!!
I like the idea of bungee cording it to the stem. I guess I could also clip it to the side of my Bento box.


I think I might read that fear book, too. Sounds interesting!!

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Curiousity.... How comfortable are you pepper spray packing ladies at using it? Did you buy a bottle for practice? Or are you just assuming you will be able to use it when needed? I would like to let DH rest easier and ride on my own but I would probably end up pepper spraying myself!

I got a little thing of pepper spray on Ebay. Mine has a flip-top that you have to flip up to be able to press the button- this makes it pretty much impossible to spray unless it is pointing away from you. It said it has enough for about 10 one-second bursts of spray. It also says each one was tested once at the factory. I tested mine for one second out in my yard to make sure I'd know what to expect. I figure it has at least 7 or 8 one-second sprays left in it, or 3 or 4 two-second sprays' worth. I'll probably replace it every 2 years or so if I don't use it up. I have not needed to use it yet, in one year of riding. But at least I know it does work! :)

[mimitabby]

okay, i did it.
When i was east of the mountains this weekend, since I was the sag
i didn't have time or opportunity to ride with the rest of the people,
so on Sunday morning, i left the lodge at 615am to ride by myself.
I told DH where i was going and took off down the road. I rode almost 6 miles and saw two cars. I also saw 3 deer. And that's what scared me.
Going back downhill, the next almost 6 miles, I decided that if i kept my speed at no faster than around 20, a deer probably wouldn't run into me. I also talked to the deer, which they did not like, they moved away from me when I spoke.

I loved the ride. I would trade a city ride for a country ride any day!

[SouthernBelle]

Plus in the country you can go miles without a stop sign!

Although trailers full of big round haybales are scary.

[RolliePollie]

Plus in the country you can go miles without a stop sign!

Although trailers full of big round haybales are scary.

Good thing I live in the country where there are miles between stop signs...otherwise I'd get caught running one for sure! Bad habit...I probably oughtta start stopping at those silly signs. But I feel that it's much safer to run them...otherwise I might forget to unclip and fall over.

Logging trucks are scary too. And so are big piles of horse poo in my lane. But I think traffic, signal lights, and riding in urban areas would really scare me. I guess it's all just what you're used to!

[Meg McKilty]

I do not want to start a firestorm here, but I am curious if anyone carries any weapons aside from mace or pepper spray?

My bike. Sucker is made of steel- one hell of a weapon to wield.