View Full Version : Tailgated by other cyclist!!
So, DH and I went down to a long bike trail here that runs along the river. It's 40 miles round trip and we wen't down there thinking we felt strong, so we were going to ride strong. Well, we started off and it was pretty empty, not much traffic, as we are cruising along at a pretty good pace, this man and woman...(He has on NO shirt, no helmet, the woman, a bikini top, mini skirt, (NOT a riding skirt) sandals...obviously just out for a "Sunday stroll". Anyway, they proceeded to pull out right in front of us seeing how fast we were going, and ran DH off the road!:eek: I almost ate it but unclipped in time and stopped. So, they proceeded on like nothing happened. WE were PISSED. So, DH and I picked up our pace, called out "passing on left" and passed them, well, next thing I know I hear this noise behind me the same time DH does he looks back and starts taking off, I look back and this SOB is right ON my back tire. I clicked down and took off we were running about 22 and he was gone pretty fast after that, but it scared the SH&* out of me to look back, I swear this guy was trying to hit my tire! So, DH slows down asks me if I'm ok, and they were no where to be seen. As we are talking, 2 more people on bikes are taking up the whole path, so DH falls behind me and the guy would NOT get over, I finally YELLED,LOOK OUT, because he wasn't paying attention and he barely missed me. I REALLY shook for awhile after that one. So, for the rest of the ride we kept a good pace, our average was 18. We got to the end of the trail and had to turn around to go back. By then the trail was pretty clear so we were going 20-22 and wouldn't you know I looked down for 2 seconds and look up and there is a HUGE snake crossing the path. I ALMOST ate it, I ran off the path into the dirt but recovered thank goodness. DH might have clipped it's tail.
Needless to say it was quite an eventful ride! I think we will stick to riding on the street, I'd rather deal with motorist I think. We saw alot of guys down there all "decked" out and they were flying down that path faster then us, I don't know how they did it. It' MUCH easier on the street where the only moving targets are autos.:rolleyes: I was just shocked at how people would not get over or give you any room. It's a narrow path with a yellow stripe the WHOLE way, so it's pretty obvious what side you SHOULD be on!! Sorry for the vent. We had a good ride beside all that, even though DH made me push myself REALLY hard, by the end of the ride our average was 17.2 which is the fastest I've ever done!
mimitabby
06-04-2007, 07:51 AM
yes, once it gets warm, we like to avoid the trails too. You didn't even mention our two biggest fears on the bike trail. Small kids and dogs on long leashes.
The kids are out on a bike, they are just learning to ride, and they don't know about staying on one side or the other, so you can't trust them to stay where they are.
And the dogs.
I really wonder what people are thinking when they take their 10 pound dogs on a multiple use trail and then give them 10 feet to hang themselves with!!
I had a choice of flat and easy Burke-Gilman or Magnolia yesterday, and I took the hills of Magnolia because i knew it would be a lot more peaceful.
(and it was)
what kind of snake did you almost run over?
Oh mimi you are SO right. I forgot to mention them, the children and dogs..(on NO leashes) we had a few chase us. The annoying thing is there is a dirt path right next to the paved path, so 90% of people walking or running use that, but you have the 10% that want to "stroll" on the path, which REALLY becomes a hazard. There is even a sign stating please stay on dirt path if not on bicycle or rollerblades. I understand that it's a path for ALL but even DH said when we got back in the truck....."NEVER AGAIN!" There were people down there that just didn't even need to be on bikes, swerving, and wobbling...it was an experience!!
Oh gosh the snake I don't know what it was but all I could think was....OMG, it's gonna bite me as I fly by!:o It was LONG though, stretched the length of the path!! I definatley learned it's a path for the more...."casual" rider, but it's unfortunate becasue it's the ONLY flat place we can ride!!
BleeckerSt_Girl
06-04-2007, 08:03 AM
Try to imagine how scary the bike path was for the snake!! ;)
Try to imagine how scary the bike path was for the snake!! ;)
HAHAHA,.......true, true!!!:D HAHA, thank you I needed a laugh!!:D
Python
06-04-2007, 08:09 AM
Sounds like the snake may have been a Kingsnake. The females can grow to be about 7ft long. They're totally harmless:)
Yea, I did feel bad when DH said he thought he may have clipped it's tail, but he looked back and he said it looked ok.:o
7rider
06-04-2007, 08:51 AM
You were doing 22 mph on a MUT?? Don't those things generally have a 15 mph speed limit? Most do around here. Going that fast on a trail is inherently dangerous. At that speed, you ARE safer on the road.
At most speeds, I think an experienced cyclist such as yourself is safer on the road, especially at this time of year when paths are crowded with kids, dogs, runners, in-line skaters, and folks who have no clue what they're doing on a bike. Oy. I shiver just thinking about it.
Jacki
06-04-2007, 09:30 AM
[QUOTE=Jenn;208945]Anyway, they proceeded to pull out right in front of us seeing how fast we were going, and ran DH off the road!:eek:QUOTE]
Jeesch! So much for trail etiquette! . . . yeah, i try to go to a trail near my house once a week just for the pleasure of riding on a level path, but during the week i always stay on the roads - very hilly, but beautiful. Fortunately, i haven't run into any intentional trail shinanigans like you described, but small children on wobbly bikes and lots of dogs are always a concern. Big dogs with little owners scare me - i'm like "are you sure you're holding on to Fido?!" And snakes??? Fortunately any snakes i've ever seen around here are only grass snakes - not very big. i would have freaked out to see the one you saw! Yikes! - j.
Kalidurga
06-04-2007, 09:31 AM
I ride multi-use trails a lot, and we all have to remember to share the trail. Yes, most of the pedestrians and many of the other cyclists are oblivious, but if you ride trails of that sort knowing that's what you're sharing the trail with, then you can be prepared to react when necessary. And, as Regina pointed out, you cannot realistically (or logically) use an MUT for fast training rides. Most trails do have a 15mph speed limit that should be respected.
The other thing that I learned a long time ago on trails of that sort: Do NOT run over anything that looks like a stick unless you are absolutely sure that it is a stick!
mimitabby
06-04-2007, 09:36 AM
The other thing that I learned a long time ago on trails of that sort: Do NOT run over anything that looks like a stick unless you are absolutely sure that it is a stick!
I'm afraid to run over sticks.:eek: and not because I'm worried about snakes!
Did it look anything like this :D
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb14/zencentury/LongSnake-1.jpg
Harmless and beneficial:)
You were doing 22 mph on a MUT?? Don't those things generally have a 15 mph speed limit? Most do around here. Going that fast on a trail is inherently dangerous. At that speed, you ARE safer on the road.
At most speeds, I think an experienced cyclist such as yourself is safer on the road, especially at this time of year when paths are crowded with kids, dogs, runners, in-line skaters, and folks who have no clue what they're doing on a bike. Oy. I shiver just thinking about it.
There were people passing us going ALOT faster, and there is no speed limit posted at all. Most people around here know that alot of people go down there to ride since it's the only FLAT place around here, that is why MOST people stay on the dirt path next to the paved path. We weren't going that fast when people were around, give me some credit, our average was 17 anyway. The POINT of my post was regarding the people that were MORE of a hazard by not looking and just pulling out in front of people on the path, then getting mad when they were passed and trying to hit ME! If you all honestly think that my husband and I are that ignorant and rude, I'm very offended.
Bye ya'll it's been real. I hope you all can keep new people coming on this board from feeling attacked or insulted, it's not worth it anymore.
alpinerabbit
06-04-2007, 11:26 AM
Hi Jenn,
I have seen insults on internet forums and this was not an insult. Perhaps it is felt that giving a different perspective is not appropriate for someone who was not there but we are free to express a different viewpoint here, aren't we?
Kindest regards
Alpinerabbit
LadyinWhite
06-04-2007, 11:50 AM
There is a fantastic paved bike path right near me, it runs straight out a point w/ gorgeous views of the ocean on both sides. It was created (as I understand it) to keep the cyclists off the road that travels this point. It's become a MUT - I won't go near it in the summer time. The road has no shoulder and is 50mph speed but I'll ride that before I'll ride the MUT unless I'm super organized and get up and out by 6am.
This is exactly why - way too dangerous for me (and everyone else) for me to be humming along dodging cycling and pedestrian obstacles and its so flat that speed is just too inviting.
bmccasland
06-04-2007, 11:58 AM
Now that it's gotten warm and muggy - we get to watch for ....
Alligators!
Nothing quite like seeing an alligator sunning itself on the path. Now there's a road hazard to avoid at all costs :eek:
Gowest
06-04-2007, 12:06 PM
I had a pack of dogs (five) on Saturday and then two snakes - both dead - on a 50 mile ride!!!! Love the photo Zen - one was black and the other for me was a copperhead!!!! Off topic - but as a kid I used to torment my mom and trick her into looking at pictures of snakes - she hates them!!!
Debi
smilingcat
06-04-2007, 12:20 PM
just goes to show that just cause people are riding bikes or even fully decked out (posers) on a bike doesn't mean that they understand the etiquette of riding.
Watch the riding form and you can tell a lot about a rider. We have beach cruisers, dudes on a bike looking for a babe and do really stupid things to get girls' attention and girls with very few sq inches of fabric riding on bike looking for a dude :rolleyes: ... to you name it. So best to figure them out before you get too close. And the best way is by looking at their riding style. inexperienced riders don't have a very good form and tend to weave so I give myself extra room when I get close.
And fact of life, some guys just absolutely hate it when a girl passes by them and will just about do anything to pass you and including being hazard to you.
sorry to hear about running an obstacle course.
just goes to show that just cause people are riding bikes or even fully decked out (posers) on a bike doesn't mean that they understand the etiquette of riding.
Watch the riding form and you can tell a lot about a rider. We have beach cruisers, dudes on a bike looking for a babe and do really stupid things to get girls' attention and girls with very few sq inches of fabric riding on bike looking for a dude :rolleyes: ... to you name it. So best to figure them out before you get too close. And the best way is by looking at their riding style. inexperienced riders don't have a very good form and tend to weave so I give myself extra room when I get close.
And fact of life, some guys just absolutely hate it when a girl passes by them and will just about do anything to pass you and including being hazard to you.
sorry to hear about running an obstacle course.
Thank you for responding to the main POINT in my post. We were by no means hot doggin' or flying around people or going fast near ANYONE. When it was open yea, we'd GO...but slow down coming up on traffic. I was talking about that guy that almost ran ME off the path, which by the way, smelled of alcohol when we passed, so I'm sure that had alot to do with it!!;)
We have a beautiful MUT called the Lakefront Path here in town. The north branch of it is so congested that it's miserable to ride on the weekends or weekday evenings.
BF and I rode part of it Sat. Coming around a curve, a bunch of teens were hanging out, meandering, and taking up the entire path. I rang my little bell several times, I slowed down to a crawl, I called out "Watch out! Watch out!" No movement from any of them. Went around them on the grass, muttering, "Sheesh!" Then they acknowledged my presence by yelling at me, "You could at least say 'excuse me'!" Large sigh. Actually, I wanted to go back and....well. Ahem. I didn't. BF said, "honey, they didn't know you were there." Really? OK. Maybe. But I think I just need to stay off that part of the path. It makes me too mad.
And don't even let me get started about rollerbladers talking on the phone! :mad::eek::rolleyes:
I am happy to say that the south branch of the path is lovely, and wide, and seldom congested. That's a place to really fly. If I'm doing a long ride, I'll usually take city streets for 7 miles to get to the south branch, and then get in the aerobars and go fast. :)
Well, if it makes you feel any better... or at least makes you sound better... I go up to 24 mph on my bike path. It's very common for me to have a 18-19 mph average at the end of a ride.
Mind you, I go slower on the parts where there isn't a lot of room... but otherwise I'm flying.
With that said... it blows my mind how OBLIVIOUS people on the path can be. Anyone who has been on this path knows that cyclists are out there hauling butt... and trust me, I'm not one of the fast ones.
If you (a walker/runnger) SEE and have cyclists fly by you at 20-25 mph, wouldn't you think to stay on the SIDE of the path and not walking down the middle... or walking in a group 3 across?
I have also had cyclists run up my rear tire or get really close when they pass.
If someone is close behind me, I will turn my head and tell them, "If I'm holding you up, feel free to go around." I do it nicely, but I let them know that I don't want to slow them down.
With all of that said, I have learned that I can only ride this path once a week. Anymore more than that, and I get really frustrated with the people out there on the path.
Sorry you had so many obstacles to dodge. Isn't it nuts how people think a path is so safe because there aren't any cars, and sometimes it's more dangerous. I am amazed at how they don't put on helmets when they should riding on a path!
Now that it's gotten warm and muggy - we get to watch for ....
Alligators!
Nothing quite like seeing an alligator sunning itself on the path. Now there's a road hazard to avoid at all costs :eek:
:eek: You're not kidding, are you. :eek:
And might I add: :eek: :eek: :eek:
7rider
06-04-2007, 12:44 PM
There were people passing us going ALOT faster, and there is no speed limit posted at all. Most people around here know that alot of people go down there to ride since it's the only FLAT place around here, that is why MOST people stay on the dirt path next to the paved path. We weren't going that fast when people were around, give me some credit, our average was 17 anyway. The POINT of my post was regarding the people that were MORE of a hazard by not looking and just pulling out in front of people on the path, then getting mad when they were passed and trying to hit ME! If you all honestly think that my husband and I are that ignorant and rude, I'm very offended.
Bye ya'll it's been real. I hope you all can keep new people coming on this board from feeling attacked or insulted, it's not worth it anymore.
No offense intended or implied.
We're all friends here, right? :)
I honestly don't know the bike path scene near you and I have a lot of respect (from your posts) for you and your DH as cyclists. I would never in a million years say you or your husband are ignorant or rude.
I agree completely that the biggest hazard on bike paths are clueless people. That is why I'm just surprised that anyone - you or (especially) folks going faster than you - would go so fast on a MUT (perhaps the MUTs near me are too frequently broken up by major street crossings to get up that much steam! :rolleyes: ). Anyway, yeah...people are unpredictable and MUTs can be....um...a "challenge", as you discovered.
Peace??
missymaya
06-04-2007, 12:50 PM
bmccasland, I've seen those sights before, especially the big boys that take up most of the path. Those gators can get pretty nasty this time of year, so please be careful. There's 2 that hang out on the econ (big stream) that runs next to the path and in the afternoon they just sit there sunbathing. The boy is just huge, probably 8ft and the lady is a tad smaller. I leave them be and they leave me alone to, but I've seen some dumb guys try to walk up to them and mess with them. Yeah, culling of the herd if I've ever seen it.
I also get to see rabits, raccoons, tons of snakes, soft shells turtles going to the water and my favorites, the gopher tortoises. They may be tortoises, but they can move when they need to:D . Sometimes, I just stop to look at these creatures, just too cool.
I'm guessing MUTs are what are called "bike and pedestrian paths" in Norway, which means cyclists are expected to use them instead of the road, and are also expected to share them with Grandma in a wheelchair, your neighbour walking 5 dogs, and gaggles of oblivious teenage girls... *sigh*
Now kids, dogs and elderly people - I give them lots of slack. They either don't know any better, or grew up in a time when things just went slower.
And no, I don't use these trails for any serious training. (Well, I don't actually DO any serious training :p )
But I really really wish sometimes that we could have a set of "smart pedestrian"-rules, to go with the "friendly cyclist rules", like: Remember there are people out here trying to get from A to B. Try to stay somewhat to one side. Glance behind you before you cross the path. And please don't walk your dog on one side of the path, if you're going to be on the other side... It seems some people feel that paths like these are like strolling around inside a mall and seem shocked at somebody passing them at anything over stroll speed. Since I started biking regularly I'm never startled by other cyclists when I'm on foot. It just depends on what you expect.
But of course what we REALLY want are dedicated bike paths, right? :)
One memorable ride I was just about home at dusk and ran over a rattlesnake. I was about over it before I saw it on the dirt-gravel road. The snake was still there in the road curled and hissing when my FIL came to kill it with a hoe.:eek:
Of course peace!:o I guess my post was just a little confusing, I apologize, I should have talked more about the drunken moron that was trying to run into me, or pass me, which I might add would have NEVER happened!;)
Plus, I'm sure it pissed off his half naked girlfriend that he was trying to chase me down!
I was just as shocked watching those "decked" out guys out there, they were REALLY flying and it was scary because when they are coming at you, you can't jude their speed if you are trying to pass someone, you know, the people you get stuck behind and when you look down at your computer you are doing like.....5, it's hard for me to balance going that slow.
But of course what we REALLY want are dedicated bike paths, right? :)
Yes, Yes, YES! :D
One memorable ride I was just about home at dusk and ran over a rattlesnake. I was about over it before I saw it on the dirt-gravel road. The snake was still there in the road curled and hissing when my FIL came to kill it with a hoe.:eek:
Why?
I wasn't a threat to anyone :(
rapid cycler
06-04-2007, 01:12 PM
I ride quite a lot at the Sepulveda Basin bike path in Los Angeles, where I've had several encounters with squirrels that I swear were playing chicken with me. They leap onto the trail, visibly ponder darting through my cranks—which for them must seem a challenge akin to those windmill holes at miniature golf courses, except they're the ball—then instead veer parallel with my front wheel and pace me. I slow down, they slow down. I speed up, they speed up. I really have to come to a complete stop to avoid a squirrel wreck, and I just know they scamper off talking trash about me. You gotta watch those city squirrels; they won't hesitate to throw down with you over whose trail it really is!
As for MUT annoyances, my vote goes to the folks who rent those surrey-like pedicabs—which are explicitly restricted to the interior of the park, where there's plenty of trail to pedal whilst enjoying lovely views of the park's lake and its resident wild fowl—and take 'em on out to the exterior loop, which really is intended for more fitness-minded pursuits (though when I see how underinflated those pedicab tires are, I have to admit those folks are apt to get the better workout), to noodle to and fro. Those rigs are impossible to turn with any kind of acumen, so avoiding collisions is up to anyone but the pedicab drivers.
Hee-hee. Those squirrels sound just like our cat. She has led a sheltered and pampered life, and the idea that any human could harm her has never crossed her mind. She'll routinely lie down smack-dab in the middle of the kitchen floor right when you're making dinner, and stretch out languidly and bat at your ankles as you step over her. Yesterday I saw her join some kids playing football. She wandered out into the field, tail waving high, looked around and lay down so they had to run around her...
A little later she went over to sit and meditate in the middle of the sandbox. The fact that four 8 yr olds were practicing riding their bikes right across it didn't faze her at all.
What is MUT, and what is a pedicab?
Oh, and squirrels, we have prarie dogs here, by the THOUSANDS that love to nest by the path here on base, right along with these little owls. As you ride by you can hear them....eeeekkk...eeeekkkk, as you approach as they all stand at attention by their holes, I know they are saying...(OMG...guys, here she comes again,duck!:eek: )
Then there is always one that will wait, I SWEAR it's like the Geico commercial with the squirrels, and at the last second dart right in front of you! YES, I hate to say it, I'm an animal lover, so I'll take a HIT before I hurt a little furry.:o
northstar
06-04-2007, 02:39 PM
These types of obstacle-courses have led me to ride paths less and less. Just Saturday, I was riding a path and came upon two women riding side by side, both with headphones on. So I called out "On your left," ... no response. So I yelled it. And woman on the left side yells, "YOU DON'T HAVE TO FREAK OUT!"
I'm sorry, but seriously! How was I supposed to know if she could hear me? Do many people really ride with a friend, then BOTH wear headphones? What's the point?
And the dogs on long leashes? Geez.
Ok, rant over. But sometimes those paths that seem like they'd be so lovely are absolutely maddening because people are senseless.
rapid cycler
06-04-2007, 02:50 PM
What is MUT, and what is a pedicab?
Oh, and squirrels, we have prarie dogs here, by the THOUSANDS that love to nest by the path here on base, right along with these little owls. As you ride by you can hear them....eeeekkk...eeeekkkk, as you approach as they all stand at attention by their holes, I know they are saying...(OMG...guys, here she comes again,duck!:eek: )
Then there is always one that will wait, I SWEAR it's like the Geico commercial with the squirrels, and at the last second dart right in front of you! YES, I hate to say it, I'm an animal lover, so I'll take a HIT before I hurt a little furry.:o
I know there are folks who think of them as pests, but prairie dogs are adorable, like meerkats!
A MUT is shorthand for a multi-use trail (or path) where peds, cyclists, rollerbladers and the like mix it up.
As for pedicab, I'm certain that's not the correct term for what I'm referring to. My local rec area has these things they rent where there's a sort of cab built around a bike frame, like a surrey with pedals instead of horses. It seats two to four, with the front occupants pedaling their little hearts out to make the thing move forward at all. Seriously, I think I might go to the rental place sometime and offer to pump up all their tires and service all those creaky drive trains. Maybe I could earn community service points in advance of some potential future misdemeanor, which is bound to be the result of cycling road rage.
PinkBike
06-04-2007, 02:51 PM
jenn, MUT's are multi-use paths, pedicabs are those bicycle-taxi things. always thought that would be good training.
anyway, our MUT is about 10 miles winding through the greenbelt. it passes thru parks and golf courses and housing. like regina, there's no way you would take a road bike on a ride on this path. it's too ,well, used. by rollerbladers, walkers, bikers, dog people, kids, strollers, geese feeders, picnickers, joggers, etc etc. i ride it occasionally running errands because the one thing this patch doesnt have is cars! and it goes under streets instead of across them. but you would never think to race through there full out on a road bike. so maybe the paths regina and i have access to are totally different than the ones you and others have access to.
Oh,ok PinBike, thank you for the descriptions, I haven't seen those pedicabs, they sound neat though, except when you get stuck behind one...haha
MUT's hmm...Now, I know I'm probably going to get in ALOT of heat for this comment. However, I know when DH and I were riding like I stated earlier, 90% of people are walking on the dirt path NEXT to the paved path, then you have those few that walk on the path, wearing headphones, and they are NOT speed walking, oblivious to the fact that there are cyclist, rollerbladers (with dangerous skiing poles flying out....we almost got hit) etc..... I just think if it says "bike path"....hmmm maybe I'm wrong, but I would think that means,....bike path.:confused:
I don't care how fast or slow you go, if it was just bikes on them and people were courteous and used caution,....ahhh...life would be grand wouldn't it?:)
Oh, and I forgot to mention beside the snake, we also had to dodge the horse...poo....which happend to be under a dark bridge and coming out of the sunlight and you can't see....mmmmm DH was cleaning off his back and bike last night...:D
rapid cycler
06-04-2007, 03:22 PM
I'm often tempted to tell walkers and joggers, helpfully, not angrily, that the dirt path will be much kinder to their feet, but I suspect I'd get more hostility than thoughtful consideration in return. :confused:
I'm often tempted to tell walkers and joggers, helpfully, not angrily, that the dirt path will be much kinder to their feet, but I suspect I'd get more hostility than thoughtful consideration in return. :confused:
If they only knew what they were missing out on by riding!;)
Python
06-04-2007, 04:24 PM
One memorable ride I was just about home at dusk and ran over a rattlesnake. I was about over it before I saw it on the dirt-gravel road. The snake was still there in the road curled and hissing when my FIL came to kill it with a hoe.:eek:
Poor snake:( I like Rattlesnakes. They're lovely animals who at least give you warning to back away from them. One of our reptile shops here has a Venomous section. They have a Diamond Back Rattlesnake in there. He's a big lad but seldom rattles his tail as he's used to people. They also have several Cobras, Black Mambas, Green Mambas, a Gaboon Viper a Puff Adder...and an 8 inch long venomous centipede. I love the snakes but not so keen on the centipede. I've been very lucky in being able to see the snakes close up and being only 12 inches from a Cobra even though he's in his viv and behind glass is quite awesome.
Here he is in a very striking pose
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/fionakidd/PICT0010.jpg
One memorable ride I was just about home at dusk and ran over a rattlesnake. I was about over it before I saw it on the dirt-gravel road. The snake was still there in the road curled and hissing when my FIL came to kill it with a hoe.:eek:
This rattlesnake was about in our front yard and I wouldn't want myself or my family to run across it again.
RolliePollie
06-04-2007, 07:27 PM
The bike trail in Sacramento served me extremely well this Spring as I was learning how to ride from scratch. It's so nice and flat down there...so different than my local roads. But now that it's getting busier down there, I'm trying to stay away. Far too many obstacles. Last time I rode the trail, I nearly hit a lady who turned left in front of me. And I got cussed out by a guy who was right on my back wheel when I had to brake because a lady on a razor scooter swerved in front of me and sent me into oncoming bike traffic. Then there are those paceline groups going super fast who scare me half to death.
What does everyone think about getting "dinged" on the trail by a bicycle bell? My friend and I were riding the bike trail on a weekday and it was completely deserted. We were riding along next to each other at about 15 mph...the lane was plenty wide for both of us to stay completely on our side. All of a sudden, this guy comes up behind us and starting dinging us like crazy. Then he flies around us on the left while continuing to ding and cuts in front of us wayyyy too close. There was no one coming the other direction so he had plenty of room to pass. I thought it was very rude. Other folks we encountered generally said, "hi there...nice day today" or "how ya doin'?".
My local MUT is only 3 miles long and 90% of the pedestrians walk ON the pavement and will NOT move. I say "passing on your left" and they stop dead in their tracks and turn to look...and they're still in my way! But once again, in early Spring it was a great place for me to start out. Now I'm more afraid of that trail than any of our local roads!
I'm often tempted to tell walkers and joggers, helpfully, not angrily, that the dirt path will be much kinder to their feet, but I suspect I'd get more hostility than thoughtful consideration in return. :confused:
Well, I am a runner... who runs on a path with bikes... the very paths I also bike.
I can tell you that I have tried running in the grass/dirt... but the ground is so uneven, I am constantly in fear of twisting an ankle.
So, I wouldn't want to be in the dirt/grass. But I also make sure that I run on the edge of the pavement, and I constantly look behind me. If I see a situation with a tight squeeze for a cyclists, I do get on the grass for a short while.
The key here is that the walkers/runners pay attention to what is going on around them and try to be courteous to everyone using the path. Unfortunately, most are off in la-la land and don't really pay attention.
What does everyone think about getting "dinged" on the trail by a bicycle bell?
I recently got a bell for my bicycle, when I saw that people responded more quickly and favorably to my BF's bell than to my "on your left!" When I use my bell, I am calmer than when I'm yelling. The bell is a constant volume. With my voice, I'm never sure how loudly to yell, and I find myself tense and angry if I've yelled that I'm passing and people don't respond.
Sounds like the guy who passed you was pretty hepped up on adrenaline, and his bell-use just reflected that!
So far, I'm in favor of the bell over the voice. I've started saying, "I'm passing you!", as a lot of people seem baffled by "on your left". It's hard to know when to say the "OYL"--when faster riders pass me, it often seems like they're nearly upon me before they say anything, and then I want to jump. If they started dinging from a few more feet back, I'd know they were coming.
crazycanuck
06-04-2007, 09:53 PM
I absolutely hate being Ding Ding Dinged at :mad: I feel as if i'm around kindergarten kids or something.URGH.
If i'm going to pass you, i'll say "On your right" or "Rider" and if you still don't hear me..well a few expletives will be in order.
Just move out of my way.:mad: Can you tell I don't like slow cyclists, families on bikes etc..
This is why i mountain bike!
In addition, I don't use the cycle paths on the weekend as i know there will be families out there and I don't have the patience.
C
In summary, common sense is not always common.
tangentgirl
06-04-2007, 10:36 PM
Arghhhhhh, the so-called bike paths by the beach here may as well be MUTs. We've got one nice bike path, clearly labeled BIKES ONLY. We've got an even nicer parallel walking/running/skateboarding/ogling/dogwalking path right above it. Why, I ask you, are there still people walking around aimlessly on the BIKE path? I really want to flatten them. May as well ride with the cars.
Velobambina
06-05-2007, 03:46 AM
I echo all the sentiments here. Hazards abound, usually the result of ignorance and/or discourteousness.
Doublewide baby carriages? The bane of my existence, especially when mom/nanny refuses to move to the right. Or when there's a dog on a long/flexileash and/or a cell phone involved. There are a few double-doublewides--two ladies walking next to each other, each w/a two kids on board---who also refuse to go single file. Or people with little kids who let them wander all over the trail and then give you the evil eye when you politely ask the child to stay put so you can pass.
Where I ride, I encounter the most hostility from other females. In addition to the baby carriage crowd, chicks running/walking two or three abreast who refuse to move to the right, even when there's oncoming traffic in the opposite lane. They are usually chitterchattering away.
7rider
06-05-2007, 03:51 AM
In summary, common sense is not always common.
Neither is common courtesy.
:(
BleeckerSt_Girl
06-05-2007, 05:39 AM
Seems pretty obvious to me that "bike paths" that are frequently used by joggers, baby carriages, roller bladers, dog walkers, families with small children, scooters, fitness walkers, and beginner cyclists are just NOT places where an experienced cyclist would want to ride at a reasonable speed anyhow.
Why do we keep acting surprised and angry when people don't behave in such a way that is geared towards cyclists? It's just not going to happen, ...just as car drivers are not going to do the right thing all the time either. It's up to us to ride in such a way as to avoid hazardous encounters. That might mean riding extremely slowly, avoiding such multi-use paths during crowded hours, or even avoiding them altogether.
Tuckervill
06-05-2007, 06:03 AM
I don't mind being DINGed at, as long as you don't do it for the first time 3 feet behind me. The other day a guy in full kit and at full tilt on the MUT didn't say on your left until he was right at my back tire. Of course, I didn't hear him coming at all because he was coming so fast, and I jumped out of my skin.
If you're going to warn people, make some noise way back so they're not startled. I try to whistle a little tune about 20 yards away (our trails are not very crowded) so they at least know someone is back there and approaching. Then people don't startle when you get closer.
Karen
Jo-n-NY
06-05-2007, 06:24 AM
Lisa, you are so right.
I have not ridden a favorite bike path of mine for two years because all the reasons listed above. When creating a route for the ROS that I organized I needed to use a small portion of the path that connected two towns. I never knew there was a one mile developement road that ran parallel with the beginning of the path, which is the part of the path that is used the most by walkers, etc. At the end of this road there is another entrance to the path.
Well last weekend, I decided to ride to the path from my house as I always did years ago but took the road bypassing the beginning of the path then instead of getting off the path that I would have for the ROS I continued on and had a very enjoyable ride that took me into the park I did it again the next day. I had it set in my head I was not going to be riding as fast as I do on the road, but going 15mph was working out just fine for me. Yes, I came across parents with a child riding and so I slowed up, let them know I was passing, told the kid that they were doing really good and went on my way. Other than that, there were not any of the walkers, baby strollers etc that are in the beginning of the path.
All in all this gave me an enjoyable 25 mile ride and is another alternative when I don't feel like really pushing it. I am on main/back roads getting and coming home from the path so the ride is like the best of both worlds.
~ JoAnn
Seems pretty obvious to me that "bike paths" that are frequently used by joggers, baby carriages, roller bladers, dog walkers, families with small children, scooters, fitness walkers, and beginner cyclists are just NOT places where an experienced cyclist would want to ride at a reasonable speed anyhow.
Why do we keep acting surprised and angry when people don't behave in such a way that is geared towards cyclists? It's just not going to happen, ...just as car drivers are not going to do the right thing all the time either. It's up to us to ride in such a way as to avoid hazardous encounters. That might mean riding extremely slowly, avoiding such multi-use paths during crowded hours, or even avoiding them altogether.
Well, I'm sure, by your standards my husband and I are not "experienced" cyclist:rolleyes: . I'm going to keep going back to my MAIN point in my post of the DRUNK half naked guy trying to run ME off the path, or the so called "experienced" riders all "decked" out running twice as fast as us, talking to eachother and almost hitting us head on!!! What is the deal, do people just read a post and pick it apart. As I stated before, DH and I did not go that fast with traffic, we put NOBODY in harms way, WE are responsible cyclist. When it was open and we had a good clear headway, YEA, we opened up and HAULED BUTT. HMM did I say we ran 22 the whole way running people over, throwing them off the path somewhere and didn't realize it???
The point is, if you are goin to be on a BIKE PATH, respect the people on it and be courteous.;)
RolliePollie
06-05-2007, 07:57 AM
Seems pretty obvious to me that "bike paths" that are frequently used by joggers, baby carriages, roller bladers, dog walkers, families with small children, scooters, fitness walkers, and beginner cyclists are just NOT places where an experienced cyclist would want to ride at a reasonable speed anyhow.
Why do we keep acting surprised and angry when people don't behave in such a way that is geared towards cyclists? It's just not going to happen, ...just as car drivers are not going to do the right thing all the time either. It's up to us to ride in such a way as to avoid hazardous encounters. That might mean riding extremely slowly, avoiding such multi-use paths during crowded hours, or even avoiding them altogether.
Good point, Lisa! I guess we all just like to moan & groan, vent, whine, share our frustration, etc., etc.! You can't expect people to act like you think they should act, do what you think they should do, or even think at all. I know I have done some really stupid things while riding on the trail AND on the road, and other people have undoubtedly vented about ME! And we can all choose where we ride and don't ride. That's why I'm going to steer clear of the trails as much as possible this summer.
But I still think MUT users (cyclists too!) need to be more aware of others. We can always hope for a perfect world, right?
Venting is just fun :p
SouthernBelle
06-05-2007, 08:58 AM
I've often wondered why there isn't a line down the middle of paved paths just l;ike on the road. At least if someone isn't in their lane they would be at fault.
ATL Laura
06-05-2007, 09:28 AM
I’m probably jinxing myself by writing this, but I haven’t had many problems on the MUT that I ride. But then again, I go out there with the mindset that I’m the only one paying attention and everyone is out to get me:) . It certainly gets crowded this time of year, but I’m lucky that only the first 5 miles or so are jam-packed. Further out on the trail its pretty quiet and that’s where the animals are…on Saturday I even saw a wild turkey! The snakes are a bit scary, but I’m getting used to them…
Fredwina
06-05-2007, 09:54 AM
I've often wondered why there isn't a line down the middle of paved paths just l;ike on the road. At least if someone isn't in their lane they would be at fault.
There is one on some of the trails here.(the San Gabirel and Santa Ana River trails)
That being said, I tend to aviod them (do a search on "Fredwina" and "humerus" if you need more info;) ) and they are some folks how do the speed demon routine on them. They're about the only place here that you don't have to deal red lights every half mile or serious climbing.
smilingcat
06-05-2007, 10:27 AM
MUT by the beach is really congested and its just not worth the hassle to ride a bike. No one pays attention to the "rules of the road". And occasionally there are "speed demons" on them. Last year an elderly woman was run over by a "speed demon". I think she suffered a broken arm. sad sad sad... The jerk wasn't a good rider and not very fast. So he was trying to be a big fish in a small pond.
I ride on road less travelled. And weekend training rides early in the morning before the traffic starts to pick up. Avoid the yahoos and crazy drivers.
Shawn
BleeckerSt_Girl
06-05-2007, 10:54 AM
Well, I'm sure, by your standards my husband and I are not "experienced" cyclist:rolleyes: .
On the contrary, you seem to be pretty experienced compared to others you describe.
What is the deal, do people just read a post and pick it apart. As I stated before, DH and I did not go that fast with traffic, we put NOBODY in harms way, WE are responsible cyclist....HMM did I say we ran 22 the whole way running people over, throwing them off the path somewhere and didn't realize it???
Nobody said you acted irresponsibly. As to "picking apart posts"- Well, you relate to the forum in detail an experience that frightened you and was clearly a dangerous situation. People then suggest ways that this dangerous situation might be avoided in the future- either avoided by you or by themsleves or others. Such responses are only natural and are intended to be helpful, if not to you then perhaps to others less experienced in riding who read this thread too. :) No one is questioning your judgement or your abilities.
The point is, if you are goin to be on a BIKE PATH, respect the people on it and be courteous.;)
Yes I'm sure we all agree with this! Unfortunately many "bike paths" are used by pedestrians as well, people who have little knowledge of cycling safety behavior and who sometimes have little common sense. It's certainly important and worthwhile to discuss these types of hazards here, and how to avoid them. It was good that you brought the subject up, especially now that summer is upon us. :)
rapid cycler
06-05-2007, 11:41 AM
I've often wondered why there isn't a line down the middle of paved paths just l;ike on the road. At least if someone isn't in their lane they would be at fault.
Oh, my local MUT has lines dividing the path into directional lanes, not to mention the helpful "Bike Lane" legend painted every 20 feet or so.
Lisa S.H.: "It's up to us to ride in such a way as to avoid hazardous encounters. That might mean riding extremely slowly, avoiding such multi-use paths during crowded hours, or even avoiding them altogether."
*pout* We can't have anything nice. *kicks ground petulantly*
;)
Seriously, I know that we're always making choices based on the pros and cons of MUTs and the road—each have their disagreeable and downright dangerous issues—but whichever we choose, I don't think there's anything wrong with a little good-natured ranting about each.
In that spirit, I went for a quick ride after work last night, trying to get an hour in before the sun set. To avoid rush-hour traffic hell, I stuck to a lovely bike path the city thoughtfully added when it built a dedicated rapid bus corridor traversing the San Fernando Valley of Los Angeles. Not only does it allow for crossing the breadth of the SFV (about 20 miles from one end to the other) free of vehicular competition, it allows for doing so in relatively fresh air—the metroliner rapid buses are all clean-fuel rigs.
I was admittedly booking since I was racing against nightfall, but there weren't many peds or kids to speak of, so no harm. Then I came up on a knot of people who were chatting while blocking both lanes. I slowed a bit, thinking they'd soon notice me coming since it hadn't gotten dark yet and they were, after all, facing me, but when there wasn't any movement I gamely said "coming through" (maybe "permission to pass" would be more accurate to the situation?). Still no movement. I issued an "excuse me" as I got closer, and they still stood their ground, with one of them making and maintaining eye contact with me, as if we were engaged in some war of wills I didn't know I'd signed up for. I had slowed to such a crawl that I was going to have to unclip when other members of the cabal finally saw me and parted like bowling pins. "Thanks," I said, still friendly, as I turned the crank to regain momentum, and that's when Mr. Defiant Eye Contact lunged back into my path saying, "Go ahead and hit me. I want to die!" I managed to spit out "I don't!" as I lurched between him and his friends.
It reminded me of the yahoo-y behavior of pro cycling "fans" who crowd and crane into the route and try to run alongside and touch the riders. I can't imagine what it would be like to negotiate that level of idiocy on a regular basis! :eek:
As for bells, I used to rely on the noise of my freewheel to help announce my presence, but my new bike is just too darn quiet. :D
Well, I am a runner... who runs on a path with bikes... the very paths I also bike.
I can tell you that I have tried running in the grass/dirt... but the ground is so uneven, I am constantly in fear of twisting an ankle.
So, I wouldn't want to be in the dirt/grass. But I also make sure that I run on the edge of the pavement, and I constantly look behind me. If I see a situation with a tight squeeze for a cyclists, I do get on the grass for a short while.
The key here is that the walkers/runners pay attention to what is going on around them and try to be courteous to everyone using the path. Unfortunately, most are off in la-la land and don't really pay attention.
You sound much more reasonable and courteous than a lot of the people described in this thread, even if you run on the paved path rather than the dirt! Personally, I would actually prefer to run on the dirt/grass and wouldn't be worried about twisting an ankle, but then I hike and run trails pretty regularly so maybe I'm just used to uneven ground. The dirt and grass are a better surface for running since they're not as hard. I agree that the real problem is people not paying attention and not showing any consideration for other users.
...Mr. Defiant Eye Contact lunged back into my path saying, "Go ahead and hit me. I want to die!" ... :D
Given such an opportunity for retort, I doubt I could have been so civil.
mimitabby
06-05-2007, 01:08 PM
As for bells, I used to rely on the noise of my freewheel to help announce my presence, but my new bike is just too darn quiet. :D
did you switch from Campy to Shimano? I love my freewheel noise. It is so cool
and it brings back memories from the deep dark past of other bikes that did this.
rapid cycler
06-05-2007, 02:07 PM
did you switch from Campy to Shimano? I love my freewheel noise. It is so cool
and it brings back memories from the deep dark past of other bikes that did this.
Freewheel noise is cool. Maybe I'll clothespin some playing cards in my spokes? That would definitely help to announce my approach!
Nope, my new bike has an Ultegra drivetrain, just as my last, though now it's 10-speed instead of 9. It may be all in my head (which is crowded enough as it is, thanks), but my 10-speed group seems quite a bit smoother than my 9. Then again, comparing a spanky-new drivetrain to one with thousands of miles in its wake unfairly stacks the deck (hey, there are those playing cards again).
onimity
06-05-2007, 03:10 PM
Interesting thread.
Here our most crowded multi-use paths are divided into multiple lanes, a bike lane in either direction and a lane for pedestrians, etc. Most people stay in the correct lanes and it helps a lot. Plus, the passing protocol seems a bit easier for everyone to understand.
It seems that there are a couple of issues in this thread, first the issue of 'road rage,' whether on the road or not. That's a tough issue, in many ways. When people behave rudely or in dangerous ways it is easy to get frustrated, and that frustration, while natural, rarely contributes to our safety or that of others. It's especially frustrating to keep your cool when someone else does something wrong and gets angry at you.
So, to be clear, Jenn, it sounds like the guy you encountered was a real jerk and a dangerous one at that. It is a shame that there is no really good way for dealing with dangerous cyclists. That said, in general there are a few things that I try to keep in mind on multi-use trails.
First, at least here the rule is that bikes yield to everyone else. I try to follow the general rule on the road as well, where you are at fault if you hit someone from behind. When I find myself thinking about how frustrated I am when I am trying to go fast and someone is blocking my path, I think of all of the drivers that scare me when I'm riding on the road and then those (the majority) that do show me courtesy and watch out for my safety. It's funny, but I find myself taking on more of a car driver mentality when I am on my bike on paths...maybe it's something about being the fastest/most powerful vehicle. But I try to fight that feeling.
Second, good trail etiquette. I always make sure that I let people know that I am coming well in advance. Many people will stop and turn, even block your path inadvertently if you yell 'on your right/left' and you have to expect that. And hope that they learn. I always thank people for getting out of my way, that never hurts.
Third, while drivers have varying skills and experience on the road, the same is true to a much larger degree on trails. Kids, as several people have mentioned. I *love* seeing kids out on their bikes, but they do scare me when I am flying down a hill and come up on a trailfull of them. They can be a lot harder to see until you are close. I figure, though, that it is a good opportunity to teach kids the rules of the trail and use the same 'on your left' that I would with adults, and of course always compliment them on their cool bikes.
I had a Taekwon-Do instructor years ago who had a philosophy that we are all responsible for the things that happen to us. He illustrated this with the story of the time he was hit on his bicycle and thrown across an intersection by a drunk driver that made an illegal turn. 'It was my fault,' he said. I was a little dumbfounded at that, but he brought out some good points: he could have been more attentive, he could have been more visible, etc. And maybe it wouldn't have changed the outcome, but I thought it was a remarkably positive way of looking at ways to avoid being angry at things he couldn't change while finding ways that he might improve his own behavior by seeing his responsibility for his own safety.
Of course all that doesn't mean it isn't great to vent about the idiots we encounter. The other day, for example, I was crossing a bridge on a multi-use path by my house. It is a large log bridge on the path that is tall enough that you can't see the ground on the other side but bumpy and steep enough that you have to come at it with a good amount of speed to get across it. So I came flying up over the bridge like I do every morning only to see a woman crouched down at the other end of the bridge trying to untangle her two dogs, headed in opposite directions, whose massively long leashes blocked the entire bridge. I hit my brakes hard to avoid hitting her or one of the dogs, stopped almost instantaneously but toppled into the rail when I couldn't unclip in time. I was scared. She was scared. She yelled 'watch it!' angrily. Since I was already stopped I took the time to explain to her that I had of course looked but since she was crouched down I couldn't see her or the dogs blocking the *entire* path until I was on top of the bridge and a few feet from her. But of course it wouldn't have been a problem if I'd been going more slowly, either, even if that meant walking my bike across the bridge, which I now do.
IMO, multi-use trails can be a fantastic place to ride and train but as cyclists we should be as courteous to others as we would like cars to be to us on the road.
My two cents.
Anne
Dr. Liz
06-05-2007, 04:04 PM
Most of the MUTs around here are steeper than the roads, so I generally avoid them, as the roads are steep enough! A couple of weeks ago one of our riding buddies took us on one of the local MUTs as a 'recovery ride' and I needed another day to recover from my recovery ride! So now, I stick to the roads! :p
BadgerGirl
06-05-2007, 08:55 PM
[QUOTE=Python;209177]Poor snake:( I like Rattlesnakes. They're lovely animals who at least give you warning to back away from them. One of our reptile shops here has a Venomous section. They have a Diamond Back Rattlesnake in there. He's a big lad but seldom rattles his tail as he's used to people. They also have several Cobras, Black Mambas, Green Mambas, a Gaboon Viper a Puff Adder...and an 8 inch long venomous centipede. I love the snakes but not so keen on the centipede. I've been very lucky in being able to see the snakes close up and being only 12 inches from a Cobra even though he's in his viv and behind glass is quite awesome.
I might have to come visit you and the snakes Python...I love snakes too. Talked to a guy at work who has a pet diamondback rattler. Had her since she was a baby. She was cute...Sorry, off topic a little.:D
One of the bike paths in Denver has a 15 mph limit because of complaints. I hear the police were actually out there radaring people and giving tickets. I know I have better things to do then that! I haven't been to this park but the local news did a story on it last summer.
madscot13
06-05-2007, 09:50 PM
I know it's been said but can I reiterate how much I hate it when cars toot their little ( I mean big) horn right behind me? It is just the rudest/ loudest sound and I don't think the driver realizes how bad it could mess a rider up. Wish drivers had a way to say what they wanted to without yelling/ honking.
bmccasland
06-06-2007, 05:05 AM
:eek: You're not kidding, are you. :eek:
And might I add: :eek: :eek: :eek:
LPH - nope not kidding. A rider in my office was in a pace line - both experienced, good steady guys - I'll follow them anywhere ;) - when guy in front slams his breaks because there's an alligator on the path. Rider in back swerves to miss, goes down hard on the grass side of the levee (the river side has a concrete cover). Crash resulted in a broken scapula, and pelvis. But good news - he's healed and back riding. The lead guy took it hard that he broke his friend. Allligator did a swift walk back to the Mississippi.
This time of year the Mississippi is still running pretty cool, so we're not likely to see 'gators, but give everything another month to warm up. Apparently the gators have discovered tastey bits coming over from the sub-urbs. Heerree fluffy!
SouthernBelle
06-06-2007, 05:49 AM
that's when Mr. Defiant Eye Contact lunged back into my path saying, "Go ahead and hit me. I want to die!" I managed to spit out "I don't!" as I lurched between him and his friends.
Sounds like a good time to see how well your can of Halt works.
BleeckerSt_Girl
06-06-2007, 06:18 AM
Sounds like a good time to see how well your can of Halt works.
I assume you are just kidding about this. :eek:
You can't spray people with pepper spray because they verbally harass or taunt you or purposely block your path....good way to get shot, arrested, or sued! :eek: :eek:
Sounds like a good time to see how well your can of Halt works.
EXACTLY!!!
SouthernBelle
06-06-2007, 10:30 AM
I assume you are just kidding about this. :eek:
You can't spray people with pepper spray because they verbally harass or taunt you or purposely block your path....good way to get shot, arrested, or sued! :eek: :eek:
No $#@^. I've practicing law for 27 years and didn't know that.
bikerz
06-06-2007, 11:24 AM
Great posts by onimty and Lisa S.H.
There is a wonderful 20+ mile MUT here that runs along the edge of the San Francisco Bay - I love it and I ride it frequently. It is one of the few places around here where you can ride 20 or 30 miles of completely flat terrain. And when it heats up in the summer, the Bay Trail is always pleasant and cool.
On weekend afternoons, parts of it can be congested and tricky to navigate, and with one of the most popular dog parks in the area right off the trail, it can take a great deal of attention, communication and balance to safely navigate dogs, kids, and grownups, of the both the annoyingly clueless and politely attentive varieties.
I've ranted plenty of times about MUT irritations - nothing wrong with that (and thank goodness I've never had an experience like the one Jenn described - scary!), but I find that changing my attitude has calmed me down quite a bit. I agree with onmity that on bike trails like the Bay Trail, bikes should yield to others, and when I go out with that as my default mode, I enjoy myself a lot more. When I ride the Bay trail, I try to get in that "Bay Trail zone" - with a lot of smiling, waving, and "thank-yous", often riding slower than I would like, and occasionally having to unclip suddenly because other people aren't paying enough attention to me. But if I'm on the Bay Trail on a weekend afternoon, I know that's what I've signed up for, in exchange for the great views, cool breeze, and the lack of cars and intersections.
And, on cold, foggy, windy days (like most of our summer :rolleyes:), or super-early on a Sunday morning, you can practically have the whole trail to yourself, which is real treat!
Geonz
06-06-2007, 01:41 PM
I do tha tmental gear shift on our paths, too... and it reminds me that this is how so many people perceive cycling, which is why they have difficulty comprehending why we "aren't satisfied" with "perfectly good bike paths." (One fellow on our bicycling/pedestrian commission wanted to know why we wanted the speed limit not to be raised on one stretch because he couldn't understand why cyclists should have "the right to make cars slow down, so they could go as fast as they wanted." I explained that that's what complete streets were about - making roads work for *all* users, not just automobile drivers.) It's fun ... but it's not particularly efficient and at times, not safe.
Then there are some of our paths that are just a mess, but that's another story...
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