Road etiquette

[jusdooit]

I have been riding about a year. Most of that time has been on paved trails, or on a national park trace. I have little experience riding on roadways. However, as my confidence and abilities have grown I find myself wanting to ride on more public roads. My main concern is how to handle left hand turns. Do I get into the left turn lane just as a vehicle? Or do I cross the intersection as a pedestrian would?
I must admit I'm a little concerned about my safety. Here "share the road" means become part of the road to many motorists. A local radio DJ said on-air recently that it was ok to throw water baloons at cyclists. Stupidity abounds!!!
Thanks in advance to all responses.

[Zen]

If you feel confident that you can push off at a decent speed when the light changes, take your LT lane.

As for the moron on the radio, did you contact that station? A typed letter sent through real mail can be a powerful too. Send the same letter to the station's general manager and to the corporate head.

[F8th637]

As a cyclist you have the option of doing either. You can ride like a vehicle and take the left turn lane or you can take it like a pedestrian and cross like you mentioned. I suggest checking out "The Art of Urban Cycling" at your local library or book store. It has a lot of great information about riding especially on the streets. I think all riders should read it. Good luck!

[equus123]

hello :) good question!

my suggestion for left turns....you always generally "act like a car" in the way you move or the timing you use. you generally always do this with two or more riders but you can get away with more things if you're by yourself. but the main objective is to make sure the vehicles around you 1) know you're there and 2) know which way you're going. you generally don't get too many buttheads that won't ever let you go. most people are either overly polite or treat you like another car. if you're fearful or nervous about turning then the best thing to do is be overtly obvious about where you're going. move over earlier than you probably would which enables more cars to see you sooner and see where you're going. this way you won't have as many fears that they don't know what's going on. also, if a car waves you on to go or waits for you, always make it a point to just put a hand up as a thank you. i always try to be as polite as possible every time i'm on the road. it makes drivers happier and helps giving a nice first impression for someone who's never driven past a cyclist before. it's also important because it lets them know if what they did was good or not for the cyclist.

if you're making a left in the middle of the road you're on (i.e. not at an interection): wait until traffic coming up behind you ends or there's a break, point your left arm out to signal you're going left, and move into the lane or near the yellow lines and turn when oncoming traffic is clear.

if you're making a left at a stop sign or light with no left turn lane: you act like a car whether there's one lane or two. if there's two, get in the left-most lane. if you're in a line of cars stopped, it's usually better to act like a car (or motorcycle for that matter) and take up a space in the line of cars.

if you're making a left at a stop sign or light with a left turn lane: whether there's no cars or a line of cars, i generally ride up to the front line and wait on the right-side of the left turn lane (i.e. at the first car's front passenger side). it makes it easier for everyone, especially yourself. when the light or arrow turns green then you just pick your turning line so that the cars pass by you on your left and everybody wins. haha

[Nokomis]

hello :) good question!

my suggestion for left turns....

Everything she said!

If you chose to use the sidewalk route - be sure to get off & walk it across as a pedestrian.

[Torrilin]

Everything she said!

If you chose to use the sidewalk route - be sure to get off & walk it across as a pedestrian.

Seconded. For some left turns I'm comfortable turning like a car (2 lane road, light traffic). For heavier traffic, it depends on how alert I am. For an awful lot of turns downtown, there's building construction or road construction that makes a left hazardous by eating one or more travel lanes. In that case I walk my bike period. Lot easier to go slower for a block than munge up poorly signed construction traffic.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

hello :) good question!

my suggestion for left turns....you always generally "act like a car" in the way you move or the timing you use. you generally always do this with two or more riders but you can get away with more things if you're by yourself. but the main objective is to make sure the vehicles around you 1) know you're there and 2) know which way you're going. you generally don't get too many buttheads that won't ever let you go. most people are either overly polite or treat you like another car. if you're fearful or nervous about turning then the best thing to do is be overtly obvious about where you're going. move over earlier than you probably would which enables more cars to see you sooner and see where you're going. this way you won't have as many fears that they don't know what's going on. also, if a car waves you on to go or waits for you, always make it a point to just put a hand up as a thank you. i always try to be as polite as possible every time i'm on the road. it makes drivers happier and helps giving a nice first impression for someone who's never driven past a cyclist before. it's also important because it lets them know if what they did was good or not for the cyclist.

if you're making a left in the middle of the road you're on (i.e. not at an interection): wait until traffic coming up behind you ends or there's a break, point your left arm out to signal you're going left, and move into the lane or near the yellow lines and turn when oncoming traffic is clear.

if you're making a left at a stop sign or light with no left turn lane: you act like a car whether there's one lane or two. if there's two, get in the left-most lane. if you're in a line of cars stopped, it's usually better to act like a car (or motorcycle for that matter) and take up a space in the line of cars.

if you're making a left at a stop sign or light with a left turn lane: whether there's no cars or a line of cars, i generally ride up to the front line and wait on the right-side of the left turn lane (i.e. at the first car's front passenger side). it makes it easier for everyone, especially yourself. when the light or arrow turns green then you just pick your turning line so that the cars pass by you on your left and everybody wins. haha


I agree with all this except the last one. When you are on the passenger side of a stopped car alongside it, you may be in a blind spot to the driver. Often a car in the left turning lane will change their mind or realize at the last second they are in the wrong lane, and they will TURN RIGHT instead, and run over you. Yes, they are "wrong", but it will hardly matter whose wrong when you get run over. I NEVER wait alongside a car at an intersection during a red light. Not only does the alongside position make it harder for the car next to you to see you, but it also makes it harder for all the OTHER cars to see you when you start moving forward alongside the car next to you.
In this situation, I always take the lane and stay in the middle of the left turning lane. I act just like a car, and I wait in line like the other cars. I make BIG hand signals and watch for weird turning cars when the light turns green and I go slowly into the intersection making my turn. As soon as my turn is safely made I go back to the right side of my new lane.

I second the recommendation of the book "The Art of Urban Cycling" (now annoyingly re-titled "The Art of Cycling- a guide to bicycling in 21-century America"...two titles, same book). It's my biking bible.

[Kalidurga]

Bicycle Safety: How to Not Get Hit by Cars (http://bicyclesafe.com/). Excellent site of tips for riding on the road!

[Keely]

In Melbourne (Australia) we have trams and there are a number of intersections where cars have to do "hook turns". This type of turn is very useful as a cyclist in urban areas. So here's what it is... When doing a hook turn... wait I have to translate this because you guys are on the other side...:rolleyes: too hard... I'll post a picture instead! I've drawn the picture from the Australin perspective so you'll need to reverse it.

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p107/KeelyNonie/hookturn.jpg

The concept is pretty simple once you understand it. In Victoria (Australia), cyclists are allowed to do hook turns at any intersection. It can be a lot safer.;)

[Blueberry]

As for the moron on the radio, did you contact that station? A typed letter sent through real mail can be a powerful too. Send the same letter to the station's general manager and to the corporate head.

A couple of years ago, one of our local radio jerks advocated keeping a stash of yoohoo bottles in the car to throw at cyclists. He ranted and raved on the air for a good 15-20 minutes about how bikes didn't belong on the roads.

The cycling community banded together, wrote the station and then *here's the key* started calling and writing sponsors and organizing boycotts. The station lost a bunch of ad dollars, and the idiots were suspended for a while. This was back when lots of Clear Channel stations were getting in trouble for the same thing...

For more info see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_and_the_Showgram

Just an idea.

[Starfish]

I would also just like to reiterate what someone already wrote: make sure the motorists actually see you.

Last weekend, I almost got T-boned while making a left turn. I had the right of way. There was only one car and me anywhere near the intersection. He was stopped at a stop sign, and I saw him turning his head and waiting, looking both directions more than once. I was in a bright yellow jacket on a clear day. I had been in a long and well-marked turn lane for 75-100 yards, with my yellow arm sticking straight out in a constant signal.

I thought he was being careful, and I made a stupid mistake: I was going about 25 mph (down off a slight hill), and I kept approaching the intersection fast because (1) I thought he saw me and I didn't want to keep him waiting too long for me...I was trying to be polite, and (2) I had seen he was at a full stop and really looking back and forth, and I assumed he saw me. DUMB. He did not see me, and because I was going fast, I really had to maneuver when he started to pull out to hit me.

I swerved and really yelled at him (out of fright and reaction, really), and I could see by his expression that he was chastened...he wasn't angry...he just had not seen me, for some reason, despite my full yellow jacket, turn lane, and signal.

I was chastened, also. From now on, I will go slower and make the cars wait until I am SURE they have seen me. I'm glad I didn't learn it the hard way.

[Crankin]

I always proceed slowly at left turn intersections. I have 2 major ones on my commute home, one with a light and one without. However, I want to say something about the comment Lisa made in reference to which side of the lane you should be in. On my way to school I have a 2 lane left to make on a slight uphill. Ignoring the fact that it is 6 AM and the red light will not turn green for a bike, so I look and go through the light (don't yell at me!!!), when the light is about to turn or it is green, I am always on the right hand edge of the left turn lane. It is where I feel safest. The cars behind me can see me and the line of sight onto the cross street is better. I didn't commute to work because of this intersection after I moved, and really, it has not been bad. Usually, I stay in the line of cars, but here, if I had to stop on the crest of the rise over in the middle of the lane, I am pretty sure I would fall over or have trouble starting. I haven't done this turn in tons of traffic, but this is what feels safe.

Robyn

[Cyclo Kitty]

I have to agree with the "it depends" concept. At one intersection of two two-lane streets, I took the lane (no cars behind me), signaled a left turn with my arm out, and while waiting for oncoming traffic to end, a car passed me on the left to go straight through the intersection. Now I avoid that intersection, but it taught me that even when behaving like any other vehicle, you do have to be very alert. There are bad drivers everywhere.

At the main left turn on my commute, it is again the intersection of two two-lane streets, no left turn signal, lots of oncoming traffic turning right. I wait for cars to pass me and then get into the main lane and stick my arm out. If there are no cars, I take the lane and then let them stack up behind me. The biggest problem so far has been oncoming cars turning right who have carreened through even though I'm turning, and then left me on their left side. I saw one car/driver who did that again later, and she still seemed to be oblivious to everything around her.

Make eye contact whenever you can; it's hard to know if you have, but look straight at the other drivers and they will sometimes wave you on, so you can clear the intersection first. When they do that, wave back. It's only safe if noone is whipping around from behind them, though, which happens a lot here.

The more predictably and car-like I ride, the better it seems to be. I also try to make eye contact and smile, nod, or wave at any traffic cops I see.

[equus123]

here's a visual of the left turn with 2 lanes I mentioned. i stop at the front passenger-side corner of the first car or sometimes a little in front of the corner of their car to emphasize "we're all making left turns!". :p but this is what I find the easiest for me and where I live in this situation.

You're the little red guy. The first car is the blue object.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b280/equus123/untitled.jpg

[northstar]

I have found it to be best to very carefully and deliberately take the left lane. I don't ride up to the front. Sometimes this involves backing off for a while and letting traffic pass while I wait for a safe opening to make my move. Once I get into the lane at the light/stop sign, I sit and wait like a car, right in the middle of the lane. I also watch behind me like a hawk, ready to jump out of the way if I need to do so.

A motorist recently rolled down his window and thanked me for following the rules of the road when I took the lane and waited at the light with traffic. :)

The more you ride on the road, the more comfortable you will become doing this. Of course, each intersection is different, and you'll need to strategize as to what will be safest at each one.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

here's a visual of the left turn with 2 lanes I mentioned. i stop at the front passenger-side corner of the first car or sometimes a little in front of the corner of their car to emphasize "we're all making left turns!". :p but this is what I find the easiest for me and where I live in this situation.

You're the little red guy. The first car is the blue object.



What if the blue object is talking on their cell phone or changing their cd's and doesn't notice you next to them, and then suddenly decides to turn right instead or go straight when the light turns green? This actually happens more often than one would think. Cyclists get killed this way every day.
Me, I take the lane for a left turn or to go straight.

[Crankin]

Lisa, I hope you didn't misinterpret what I said. I am in the left turn lane, but over to the right side of it. In fact, I am straddling the line between the left lane and the right (which in my case, the cars can only go right, since it's a T intersection). Otherwise, I always take the spot in line, directly behind the cars. One day my husband rode to my school and rode home with me. At my last major left turn (not the one above) there were 2 cars waiting ahead. I stopped behind the last one. My husband went around the left side of both and turned :eek: I patiently waited and then when I went, another car coming onto the main street made a left in front of me (I yelled and scared the c***) out of her). So I got punished for waiting and acting "good" while my husband rode agressively, the way that makes drivers hate cyclists, and I got punished!!!

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Lisa, I hope you didn't misinterpret what I said. I am in the left turn lane, but over to the right side of it. In fact, I am straddling the line between the left lane and the right (which in my case, the cars can only go right, since it's a T intersection). Otherwise, I always take the spot in line, directly behind the cars. One day my husband rode to my school and rode home with me. At my last major left turn (not the one above) there were 2 cars waiting ahead. I stopped behind the last one. My husband went around the left side of both and turned :eek: I patiently waited and then when I went, another car coming onto the main street made a left in front of me (I yelled and scared the c***) out of her). So I got punished for waiting and acting "good" while my husband rode agressively, the way that makes drivers hate cyclists, and I got punished!!!

I do understand what you were saying. :) And even when we ride in the safest possible way (as you did in your example), sometimes cars will STILL do the bizarre and unexpected. In fact, we should COUNT of them to do the unexpected. When I am riding in traffic, I move in such a way as to create a buffer zone and envision an "escape route" for myself at any given moment. After deliberately doing this for a few months it becomes second nature, like glancing at your rearview mirror while driving your car becomes automatic.

In fact, I often glance at my helmet mirror while walking down the street without my bike or helmet on! :D It's an odd sensation. And last week I was driving my car and I slowed way down on a little road curve with a bit of gravel, momentarily forgetting i was not on my bike! :rolleyes:

[smilingcat]

equus123 has a nice diagram. I do the same thing. The other interesting point too is that the cars generally will cut the corners so that they are make a really tight turn. And you making a very wide turn. This helps with the buffer zone. Another thing with this method is it helps a lot if you can "jump" off the line (accelerate as fast as possible so you are not next to the car as both of you make the turn). "jump" here doesn't mean that you start before the light turns green. Too many drivers around where I live run a red light.

And Like lisa says too. think of your "escape route".

As for idiots on cell phones. I make sure I get an eye contact and I wave my hand and let him know with no uncertain terms of my intention. If he is still unaware then I will tap his hood with palm of my hand to get his attention. They sometimes get mad but hey its my life.

And always assume the worst in car drivers.

[equus123]

Another thing with this method is it helps a lot if you can "jump" off the line (accelerate as fast as possible so you are not next to the car as both of you make the turn).

Exactly, I do the same thing. I try and do this at every light so make the drivers happy that I'm around when I'm in front at a light. I always look when the crossing street's light turns yellow and begin to slowly roll and clip in so that I'm off and going when ours turns green. It still cracks me up that there are so many people in a line of cars that honk literally 2 seconds after the light turns green. It's even funnier when the first car is already rolling - they may be slowly accelerating - and somebody honks. In a hurry mucH?! :rolleyes: So one of my main objectives on the road at or near intersections is to have the smallest impact as possible on drivers and cars on the road. I live in NJ and people have no patience and SHORT tempers. They get pissed at anything. :rolleyes: So I always try and just get out of the way or move as fast as possible to not make anybody angry....because it's real easy to do that around here!

[Jiffer]

I've been riding the roads on the back of a tandem for a while now, but I'm just about to embark on riding on a single (my new frame just came in!). The idea of riding on the roads always sort of freaked me out, which is why it was good for me to do in on a tandem first. I've been able to see what it's like, what you do in various situations.

As the person in the back of the tandem (the stoker), I'm usually the one who signals to cars that we're turning or whatever. You just stick your left arm out, if you're turning left, and basically point. I'll do that just before moving to get over into the left turn lane and then again when we actually take off and turn. When stopping in a left hand turn lane, my DH pulls up to the right of whatever car is stopped, just into the crosswalk. Then stays to the right side of the imaginary lane as he turns. They always wait and give us plenty of room. We've never actually turned right along side a car.

Since I'm about to embark on my own road cycling, I have been researching tips on all of this as well. (I get most of it from my hubs, who is an avid cyclist and loves to tell everybody how to do everything!) But just doing a search on google, I have come across some good articles with a lot of good advice. The main thing I remember one of them saying was, "A cyclist has the same rights and priveledges as drivers, so act like it!" The more I'm out there, the more comfortable I am with the idea of riding on my own. As for safety, you have a much better chance of being in an accident driving your car than you do your bike. (Per another article I read).

There's one time that an ignorant woman in a convertible was VERY upset that we were riding right in the middle of a lane. There was no one around and she had a whole entire lane next to us to go as fast as she wanted with no one in her way. Yet, she still had to make an issue out of it and as she passed, yelled, "Get in the bike lane!" My husband yelled back, "We are! Read your DMV manual!" There WAS no actual bike lane and, even if there was, it's typcially much safer to be in the regular lane, away from the debris that builds up close to the curb. Plus, you have more room to maneuver if need be. The closer you are to the edge, the more cars feel they can pass closer to you than is comfortable and safe for you, so my DH usually stays just a little inside the regular lane, even if there is a bike lane.

When we started riding, I was constantly telling him when there was a car coming up behind us. His typical reaction was, "Yah? And?" Like, what was he supposed to do about it?! He rides where he feels safe with a little room on the right and cars will pass when they're able to pass. I've learned to stress out less when there's a car coming. I'll only tell him if he's using up more of the lane than necessary, to give more room to the car to pass. Of course, I think he's usually quite aware all on his own that there's a car coming. But I have more flexibility to look around than he does, so when I hear something, I usually look right away.

Anyway, I recommend you do some internet searches for bicylce road safety. You'll find a lot of info that will hopefully help you feel more confident when you go out there. Plus, if you are able to, ride with a cycling club. It's a great way to learn all this stuff.

Sorry so long! I guess I had a lot to say! :o

[Crankin]

Sometimes riding with a cycling club isn't the best place to learn road safety! As a ride leader, i have to constantly keep people in line! Around here police are ticketing for riding side by side. I don't blame them. When i drive and see this, it's dangerous and annoying on our narrow country roads.
Lisa, what i was trying to explain was exactly like Eques' (sp?) diagram. I couldn't see the visual at school on my computer. And like you, I am always anticipating what stupid thing a driver will do and planning ahead. I just learned the "jump ahead" thing. On my morning commute, I cross a major highway. But at 5:50 AM, which is when I'm usually there, there are not a lot of cars going across, so the green light is very short when it's just 1-2 cars. The first day I rode, it turned red before I got across! So the next time, as soon as the light on the highway turned yellow, I looked to make sure there were no cars, and went before my light turned green. This is the only way I can make it across. On the way home, I ride up along the side of the line to the front and do the same.

[Torrilin]

I just learned the "jump ahead" thing. On my morning commute, I cross a major highway. But at 5:50 AM, which is when I'm usually there, there are not a lot of cars going across, so the green light is very short when it's just 1-2 cars. The first day I rode, it turned red before I got across! So the next time, as soon as the light on the highway turned yellow, I looked to make sure there were no cars, and went before my light turned green. This is the only way I can make it across. On the way home, I ride up along the side of the line to the front and do the same.

That's *really* dangerous. Both the jumping the light and having such a short green. I'd suggest getting in touch with your local police department about it. Explain that you want to follow the rules of the road, and the light is set up in a dangerous fashion, and ask how they want you to proceed. With any luck, they'll know who you should talk to in local government.

If the light is that short, it's dangerous for cars too. Too easy for someone driving while tired to make a mistake and t-bone another car.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

So what do you folks do when you pull up alongside the right side of the car at a red light and then jump out fast when the light just turns green and start making your left turn ahead of the car that was to your left, but then that car goes STRAIGHT instead of turning left along with you? If they didn't see you lurking next to them at the light, or are distracted for the moment, they'll then plow right into you broadside as you cross left in front of them. Dangerous.

[Crankin]

Torrelin, I am not making left across the highway, I am just going across. The light is NOT unsafe for cars; there is a sensor that holds the light long enough for any amount of cars to go through. But a bike does not trip the sensor. That is a different type of sensor and there is no way that MA would put a "bikes stop here on green" sensor (which trips the light for a bike) in this spot. I really don't have to do this on the way home, when there are more cars, because well, there are more cars at this time of day. I just get up to the front of the line, a bit ahead of the first car, on the right. There's plenty of time to get across at 3:15 PM because there's just more cars than at 6 AM. There's very few cars out at that time in the AM, even on the highway and I can clearly see when they are stopping on the yellow. If I don't do this, I will be half way across when the light turns red again. This is the only way I can go, unless I add almost 4 miles onto my commute and do a 1.5 mile climb. And at 5:30 AM, that is not what i want to do. Believe me, I am the probably one of the most risk averse person around and I am always on guard, as Lisa described. I won't even ride in the city or some of the suburbs closer to the city because of the way people drive. I did one ride last summer in the city/suburb I grew up in, which is next to Boston. I was in a cold sweat the whole time and swore I would never ride there again. The other people in the group thought I was nuts, but I prefer the country/exurbs for riding. Yes, there's traffic, but nothing what some of the other people here describe. Plus, there's tons of riders around here. The more of us drivers see, the better off we are.

[lph]

Just a general note - after riding a few years in traffic I learned to assume that the turn signals on ALL cars "don't work". Especially not on the big macho ones, they seem to be an optional extra.

Believe me, you never know when that stressed-out guy just in front of you suddenly remembers he has to pop into the store and buy toilet paper or his wife will kill him. You don't want to be next to him when it crosses his mind...

[Crankin]

Ha! Turn signals are always optional in New England. Most people don't use them, especially for changing lanes on the freeway. People here don't know how to smoothly merge into traffic either. They will come to a dead stop on a ramp and then drive way over to the right in the break down lane and push in the lane at the last minute, instead of smoothly merging in while signalling.
I expect to see all of these things while riding and driving.

[Jolt]

Yes, there's a reason why the term "M@$$holes" is often used by people from other states to describe Massachusetts drivers! We have our share of aggressive drivers as well as people just making dumb moves on the road. That said, when I drove to RI to get my bike (the seller was in Warwick), I decided the drivers there are even worse, at least on the highway.

[Torrilin]

In most of the US, the local, state and federal government specifies bikes as vehicles. That means we get all the rights that a car does, including the right to be able to cross an intersection on a green light. The following two links give MA specific examples of how an intersection can be designed to kill people.

programmed to run red? (http://www.bikexprt.com/massfacil/nonstandard/ongreen.htm)
MA intersections (http://www.bikexprt.com/bicycle/actuator.htm)

Your local government can't fix the problem if they don't know it exists. If they know of the problem and don't fix it, you have better legal recourses in case you get hurt due to their negligence.

[Jolt]

Another problem at traffic-actuated lights in MA is described on this page: http://www.bikexprt.com/massfacil/nonstandard/ongreen.htm. Have you ever seen the sign that says "bicycle stop on line for green"? First of all, it is poorly worded (sounds like it's asking us to stop on the line when the light is green--why would we do that?), and second, the "line" referred to often doesn't even exist on the roadway!! The idea was to have a pavement marking painted over a part of the loop that would allow a bicycle to trigger the light, but where I have seen these signs there was no such marking, and according to the page referenced above, this problem is widespread (the page gives examples mostly from the Boston area; I have seen it in Millbury and Grafton). An example of a good idea but lousy execution.

[Crankin]

That is exactly the type of intersection I meant, when I said it was NOT one of these. There are quite a few around Acton and Concord (the intersection is in Acton) and the "line" I believe they are referring to is the white line going parallel to the cross street just when you get to the front of the intersection. However, I have seen special markers for the bike sensor in some places (mostly in other states). Yes, it took a lengthy discussion on TE for a few of us to figure out what "bikes stop here on green" meant. But it's no different than "reverse curve" or other language things that are peculiar to MA.
I guess I could could call the Acton highway dept., but since this light crosses Rt. 2, it's probably controlled by the state highway dept. That might take a million years.