Promoting Violence Against Cyclists

[telegirl]

Take a look at this CafePress Link:

http://www.cafepress.com/bull****4u

*Note that clicking on the link won't work because the word that is in between bull and 4 u is an obsenity, so is not postable. I think that most of you can figure out that it is a word that starts with 's' and ends with 't'....

It is advertising t-shirts, etc. that says "I don't share the road" and shows a car hitting a bicycle.

I wrote a note to CafePress wondering if this is in line with their policies, but haven't heard anything.

[Kitsune06]

The people who are selling these shirts are... well... I think we can all think of a term that starts with 'A' and ends with 'holes'.

Unbelievable. Freedom of speech allows these ("D" ...ends with "its") the right to express their ("D" ends with "ss") opinion, no matter how misguided or wrong it is.

That said, they put that sticker on their car, and as if by magic, my keys might just have dust on them the same color as their paintjobs! Amazing how that works, isn't it?

And if they practice what they preach, can you IMAGINE how the media would CONDEMN some d*p***t who actually hits and kills a cyclist with this bumper sticker on his car? (if, y'know, they don't drive off like cowards...)

[SheFly]

I just sent in a message as well:


Can you please tell me if this company truly supports this? If so, I will post on web forums and tell all of the cyclists that I know to boycott your organization.

As an avid cyclist who was almost killed by a car just last night, while I was LEGALLY riding on the road, I am truly offended by this merchandise. We have a hard enough time with motorists without having to see merchandise like this.

My suggestion is that you pull this merchandise from your inventory. I would appreciate hearing from you regarding this matter a quickly as possible.

I did get a ticket number: LTK30041906349X

I propose that all of us flood them with emails - maybe we can get them to
pull the merchandise...

SheFly (fuming) :mad:

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I just wrote to CafePress to complain as well.

[Zen]

There are limits to freedom of speech.
You are beyond your rights by shouting "fire" in a crowded theater or promoting vehicular manslaughter.

I have registered my grievance with cafepress and have alerted my bike club to do the same.

This is the letter i sent -

Do you plan to remove this from your inventory?
Our society is full of enough anger and violence without products like this being sold.
The graphic clearly shows a bicycle being hit by a car. This depicts possible vehicular manslaughter.
Is this really what you want your company associated with?

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Unbelievable. Freedom of speech allows these ("D" ...ends with "its")

"Dimwits"?? :rolleyes:

Freedom of Speech may legally allow it, but CafePress has every right to pull it off it s site if it deems it inappropriate.

Write in your complaint!

[mimitabby]

I wrote:

Are you guys aware of the products you are selling? You are actually encouraging people to injure other people? Not only is that immoral, but illegal. (Shirts that say don't share the road, send bicyclists 40 feet into the air?)
how about showing a little bit of moral responsibility here!

[TsPoet]

Please tell me someone is going to post this on bikejournal !!!!

[mimitabby]

okay, I posted it on bj

[mimitabby]

bj is highly monitored. they removed my post!!

i'll try again!!

[missymaya]

That's just shocking! I can't email the company due to the fact that I'm on an office computer and it won't let me do certain things (darn) but I can spread the word. There was a privately owned car company that had a one day promotion and the advertising was directly aimed at violence against women.. ON DOMESTIC ABUSE AWARENESS DAY!!! Umm, What!!! Fortunately, there was enough complaints that the news got involved and well, let's say they didn't get much business and haven't since. Maybe this will do the same.
I wonder why bj pulled your thread mimitabby. I hope people are aware of this as to promote against the ignorance!

[SadieKate]

Bikejournal maintains standards and does not allow links to objectionable material. I imagine that this was the reason it was removed, even though your stated cause was pro-cycling.

I'm curious if this is Sean's reasoning.

[mimitabby]

it's because there was a reference to manure in my post. I have been censored there for using the word hell as in a destination, not a curse.

letter from the admin:
Dear mimitabby,

I had to delete your thread pointing to the t-shirt site, as it contains profanity in at least its images. This is against the family friendly forum rules.

I find the t-shirt as distasteful as you do, but we don't really want the kids that hang out in BJ seeing that, do we?

If you have any issues with my deleting of the thread, please reply to this email. The reply will go to slantz instead of me and he can make a final call.

Thanks for your understanding

[li10up]

I emailed a complaint also. Hope it helps. There's no place in the world for that kind of garbage if you ask me.

[SadieKate]

I think it is interesting that anyone can provide product through CafePress but it isn't readily apparent who benefits.

I suspect a lot of the products that supposedly support a charitable cause don't actually produce any funds for that charitable cause.

[mimitabby]

Yes, SK,
that has been a subject of more than 1 expose' done by my local newspaper.
charity fund raisers that mostly make money for the raisers.

I find it interesting that this is cafepress, not even a year ago, some doof was selling teeshirts that advertising killing cats. I complained about that one too.

[teigyr]

I am so mixed on this. Yes, it is horribly irresponsible and is morally horrible. I also know that the law protects things like this. The only reason something like this exists, is because there is a profit in it. THAT is truly where the problem is. Somebody actually buys this &^*$. The sad thing, beyond the fact that somebody is idiot enough to be entertained by it, is that someone in their formative years might be affected by it.

I think bj should keep Mimi's post. Yeah, there are younger people there but to censor is wrong and they will see far worse things. At least by seeing it there and talking about it, they will learn what they're up against as they become adults.

I will e-mail Cafepress when I get home. I didn't try to access it but I'm at work and the censorship is strong :)

I can't help but wonder why Cafepress seems to think this is an acceptible crime. I can't wait to see the limited edition Pedophelia shirt.

[mimitabby]

I think bj should keep Mimi's post. Yeah, there are younger people there but to censor is wrong and they will see far worse things. At least by seeing it there and talking about it, they will learn what they're up against as they become adults.

I reposted at bj and then the senior admin guy changed it in a way that was pleasing to him and still got the point across, which was all i really wanted to do. So it's a viable thread.

[Thistle]

i have emailed them a complaint as well. i hope more people do too.

[Flybye]

Just got done reading everyone's posts. I can't believe it. Man, what some people consider funny just isn't. I was wondering if there is one of you out there with a little more time on your hands tonight than myself (DD has her end of year dance recital and I must get her all foofed up and fed for the big woo-ha) and can let the folks on cyclingforums.com know about this as well. They can also contact cafepress. I will send cafepress a complaint Saturday or sooner if I can swing it. Thanks!!

[Eden]

I emailed a complaint and posted up on the Cascade forum (our local club) for other people to complain as well.
I'm not so sure that it is free speech. It does incite violence!

[Zen]

I am so mixed on this. ...Yes, it is horribly irresponsible and is morally horrible. I also know that the law protects things like this... I can't wait to see the limited edition Pedophelia shirt.


NO the law DOES NOT protect things like this, there are limits to free speech as referenced in my earlier post ( I do, however, support the "bong hits for Jesus" student)

This was the response I received from Cafepress. Sounds promising, we'll see.

Thank you for contacting CafePress.com!

As you may know, CafePress.com provides an automated service to a rich and vibrant community of international users. Unfortunately, because our service is automated, sometimes content that is not consistent with our Content Usage Policy is posted on CafePress.com. We appreciate that you have brought this content to our attention and we will take appropriate action.


Your ticket code is LTK30041906031X. Please use this code in any further communication.



Best Regards,

Jessica S.
Content Usage Associate
(650) 655-3104 (O)
(650) 240-0260 (F)

[mimitabby]

I emailed a complaint and posted up on the Cascade forum (our local club) for other people to complain as well.
I'm not so sure that it is free speech. It does incite violence!

happy 1000 posts EDEN!
(and good idea to post on Cascade. that's BIG!)

[Eden]

I know that some of the folks on the Cascade board keep up with what's being posted, so maybe they will see it and contact Cafe Press too!

[Fredwina]

http://www.cafepress.com/buy/share%20the%20road/-/cfpt2_/x_31/cfpt_/source_searchBox/copt_/y_14

[Jolt]

I just posted the link under "General Cycling Discussion" on www.bikeforums.net.

[Jolt]

I also just sent them the following message:

I am writing to let you know that I do not find any humor in the t-shirts etc. for sale on this site that say "I don't share the road" and/or show a picture of a car hitting a bicycle. As a cyclist who rides on the roads (which is where bicycles belong--not on the sidewalks), I am disturbed that someone would have this type of attitude and sell merchandise that is intended to incite such violence. Free speech is one thing, but encouraging people to injure others and flaunting one's (supposed) willingness to do so is crossing the line. Thank you for your concern.

[bikerchick68]

I sent an email to CafePress as well...

then I sent it to the San Diego Bicycle Coalition and every cyclist and bike club I know of here...

thanks for bringing this to our attention... unbelievable. Every single commute I ride by the memorial for Capt. Klokow hit and killed on Kearney Villa Rd last year... they put a ghost bike up. :(

nothing remotely amusing about it.

[Eden]

I put a post up on Cycling Forums as well - though they are a fairly crude bunch so many of them may find it to be funny.... but it is another world wide cycling site so hopefully the more reasonable members will quietly send protests to cafe press.....
(unfortunately that forum these days seems to have degenerated into a lot of name calling over who believes whom as far as doping scandals goes..... they are getting downright nasty to one another and not posting to much useful info lately)

[Batbike]

i got a response with a reference #, saying they respond in order of emails received, so we will see what happens.

everybody send!!!

[Python]

Thought it had been withdrawn as the first link doesn't work. Unfortunately, the second does. These T-shirts are disgusting.

[pooks]

I hate them too, but how different are they from "My kid can beat up your honor student" bumper stickers? When it comes to promoting violence, I mean.

I looked all over cafepress for a sticker that says "share the road/it's the law" but didn't find one. That's what I'd like on my car -- but I really do want the "it's the law" part.

In the meantime, I ordered the pink iPedal sticker!

http://www.cafepress.com/buy/37571928/-/pv_design_prod/p_storeid.37571928/pNo_37571928/id_0/opt_/pg_/c_/fpt_

[Jolt]

I hate them too, but how different are they from "My kid can beat up your honor student" bumper stickers? When it comes to promoting violence, I mean.

I looked all over cafepress for a sticker that says "share the road/it's the law" but didn't find one. That's what I'd like on my car -- but I really do want the "it's the law" part.

In the meantime, I ordered the pink iPedal sticker!

http://www.cafepress.com/buy/37571928/-/pv_design_prod/p_storeid.37571928/pNo_37571928/id_0/opt_/pg_/c_/fpt_

The "My kid can beat up your honor student" stickers are bad too. BTW, do a search on cafepress for "share the road"--I think they had some things with the message you describe, although they may have been just t-shirts.

[NJBikeGal]

I have done a giant bellyflop onto this bandwagon! I also sent an email to them. What a disgusting thing to have available on a website - right alongside the "Share the Road" items nonetheless.

Don't we have enough butt-heads to deal with on the roads without giving them a written permission of sorts to be jerks?! :mad:

[Tuckervill]

I think there's a difference between "can" and "don't". The difference is intention. The honor student bumper sticker says (my kid) "can". The other one says (I) "will".

I think the honor student bumper sticker is horrible, but it doesn't promise violence--just states that a possibility exists. The "don't share" bumper sticker is a statement of intent, and does promise violence.

Therefore, I think one is acceptable as free speech, and the other is not, in my opinion.

Karen

[pooks]

Good point, Karen, re: "can" and "will." That did cross my mind when I wrote the post.

As for free speech, I believe the "don't share" message is also protected by free speech. But I also think it's highly likely that it's not a message cafepress wants to support, which is what we can all hope for!

[Hammer]

I hate them too, but how different are they from "My kid can beat up your honor student" bumper stickers? When it comes to promoting violence, I mean.

I looked all over cafepress for a sticker that says "share the road/it's the law" but didn't find one. That's what I'd like on my car -- but I really do want the "it's the law" part.

In the meantime, I ordered the pink iPedal sticker!

http://www.cafepress.com/buy/37571928/-/pv_design_prod/p_storeid.37571928/pNo_37571928/id_0/opt_/pg_/c_/fpt_

http://www.cafepress.com/sharetheroad.10810207

[pooks]

Thanks, Hammer. I almost ordered that one, but then decided I wanted to hold out for one that also says "it's the law." That's the part that a lot of people don't know!

There are tshirts, I think, but I didn't find any stickers. I'd particularly like one of the smaller square or oval stickers that goes on the back window rather than on the bumper, so it's higher and at eye level!

[mimitabby]

I'm not ordering ANYTHING from those people. They have no scruples and they promote violence.

[pooks]

Have they responded to your email yet? They haven't to mine. I'm waiting to see what they say after they look at the situation.

[mimitabby]

go to BikeJournal.com and read the thread there about the same thing. I think we shut them down!

The thread is in their forums under Health and Fitness.
it's "good grief...

[PscyclePath]

I looked all over cafepress for a sticker that says "share the road/it's the law" but didn't find one. That's what I'd like on my car -- but I really do want the "it's the law" part.

In the meantime, I ordered the pink iPedal sticker!



A personal position, but I wouldn't buy a derned thing from Cafe Press or any of their affiliates if they tolerate that sort of stuff on their site. And let 'em know why, too...

Tom

[Deanna]

This has been the topic of my clubs chat list this morning. The outcry from cyclists is working. Emails and calls have been pouring in and they are working on having the offending items pulled. It seems they violate Cafe Presses content policies, specifically regarding the depiction of violence. Apparently it would be okay with just the wording, the graphic crosses the line:

http://www.cafepress.com/cp/info/help/content-policy.aspx

[Eden]

Good point, Karen, re: "can" and "will." That did cross my mind when I wrote the post.

As for free speech, I believe the "don't share" message is also protected by free speech. But I also think it's highly likely that it's not a message cafepress wants to support, which is what we can all hope for!

If the message stopped at "I don't share the road" I agree yes it would be protected speech, (and I think cafe press may leave the stickers and merchandise that says only this) but when the person actually provoked striking a cyclist with a car his/her speech ceased to be protected.

(one person on the Cascade board did suggest they'd like some of the ones that just say I don't share the road to put on certain people's cars as a warning lable for the rest of us......)

[Geonz]

The products are no longer available. Images are still there, but you can't get 'em to wear.

[teigyr]

I looked at the link this morning, was the first chance I had. I have to say that even after hearing the description here, I was shocked. Part of me wanted to see if I could find out who the individual is who is selling them just so I could contact him/her directly.

I really love the power that is generated on this site and I am so glad that it made a difference :)

[mimitabby]

Not just this site, Jane, but also Bike Journal, Cascade bike club and some others too!

[Eden]

Looks like it is gone entirely now!

[Eden]

well maybe not.... Now if I go back and look there it is again - I can't help but wonder if the person keeps reposting it or if it is Cafe Press wobbling about whether or not it can be sold??

[smilingcat]

I noticed it too but if you try to order, you can't. The ones without the picture, you can order but the ones wih picture, have been removed from "order" page.

Shawn

[pooks]

Congrats to mimi on a job well done.

If I'm not mistaken, she was the first to spot it, then the jungle drums spread the word, then the community-at-large roared!

[mimitabby]

no, it wasn't me. Read the first post on this thread!

[pooks]

Oh, my mistake.

TELEGIRL!!!

Thanks to Telegirl for bringing this to everyone's attention.

[bikerchick68]

ALRIGHT!!! thanks Telegirl for bringing this to our attention... I know I got emails from all my cycling friends/clubs/and the SD Bicycle Coalition and everyone emailed CafePress! One even sent an email to the governor (not a cyclist but certainly an athlete!) :D

I'm glad to see they are not selling that nonsense any longer!

[teigyr]

I'm not seeing the same shirt I saw earlier but saw this:

http://www.cafepress.com/buy/share+the+road/-/pv_design_prod/pg_1/p_storeid.80511885/pNo_80511885/id_15040305/opt_/fpt_/c_360/

which is basically attempting to incite violence. Are there different vendors doing this theme or are they all the same one?

[bikerz]

I'm glad to see they are not selling that nonsense any longer!

It's all still for sale (I checked just now) :(

[bikerchick68]

bikerz... it appears to be for sale... but click on "add to cart" and you get this:

Shopping Cart

Sorry!

The product ordered, the size set, or the qty set is not valid, or not understood by the computer!

Please try again.

I clicked on all of them to make sure... double check and let us know if you can buy it OK? I can't any longer...:confused:

[teigyr]

Ok, I get the same thing if I try to add it to a shopping cart.

Might be worth keeping an eye on, also. The person who created these will probably try to find another venue them.

Maybe Cafepress is learning that they should keep a better eye on what is being sold? If they take permanent action on this, it makes me feel a bit better about them.

[Deanna]

You have the option of signing up for the sellers "newsletter". I put my name in so if they make any announcements about availability elsewhere, hopefully it can be flagged and stopped again.

[teigyr]

smart woman :D I didn't even think of that. I might do that also, I wonder what other business ventures this idiot, er, I mean jackazz is doing?

[telegirl]

So I posted and went on vacation.....:D

I can't even find the seller on CafePress now! And the products are gone, as far as I can find.

Good job to all those who stood up and were counted. I thought if anyone could promote change, it would be you guys! And thanks for putting it out on other sites!

YOU GUYS ROCK!

[lph]

I've been chewing this over in my mind a bit today, I've been following the discussion (somewhat) both here and on bikejournal. A lot of people would consider T-shirts like this (and anti-cyclist groups on Facebook or similar) harmless fun. Edgy and provocative, but still harmless fun.

And to some extent I agree. We all get irrationally pissed off at things sometimes, and I prefer when people visibly show it rather than pretending that everything's fine. I don't mind when people get really riled up about everyday things, as long as they can laugh a bit at themselves too.

But "harmless fun" means jabbing at someone who's your equal. It might be fun to threaten to run a cycling buddy off the track and into the undergrowth when you're riding a bike, not so fun to do so when you're in a motorized vehicle capable of crushing his skull. I don't think drivers get how vulnerable cyclists feel out there, at all. And how we EVERY SINGLE DAY have to consider how to NOT get hit by a car. What looks like a "harmless" violent fantasy for them is stark reality for us, and just not fun.

[mimitabby]

So I posted and went on vacation.....:D

I can't even find the seller on CafePress now! And the products are gone, as far as I can find.

Good job to all those who stood up and were counted. I thought if anyone could promote change, it would be you guys! And thanks for putting it out on other sites!

YOU GUYS ROCK!

Yeah, see what you started? thanks, by the way!

[Zen]

I've been chewing this over in my mind a bit today, I've been following the discussion (somewhat) both here and on bikejournal. A lot of people would consider T-shirts like this (and anti-cyclist groups on Facebook or similar) harmless fun. Edgy and provocative, but still harmless fun.

And to some extent I agree. We all get irrationally pissed off at things sometimes, and I prefer when people visibly show it rather than pretending that everything's fine. I don't mind when people get really riled up about everyday things, as long as they can laugh a bit at themselves too.

But "harmless fun" means jabbing at someone who's your equal. It might be fun to threaten to run a cycling buddy off the track and into the undergrowth when you're riding a bike, not so fun to do so when you're in a motorized vehicle capable of crushing his skull. I don't think drivers get how vulnerable cyclists feel out there, at all. And how we EVERY SINGLE DAY have to consider how to NOT get hit by a car. What looks like a "harmless" violent fantasy for them is stark reality for us, and just not fun.


WELL SAID, THANK YOU!

[Batbike]

Yes, it can REALLY REALLY happen ... cars can and will hit cyclists and KILL them -- happened over Memorial Weekend in Lynchburg, VA. LOTS of media coverage because the cyclist is a prominent heart surgeon. Maybe his death will help make more people aware of bikes on the roads ... one can only hope!

http://www.wset.com/news/stories/0507/427136.html

[smilingcat]

I may have been born in the year of rooster but still, I should be able to cross a street, a 4 way stop intersection, without getting flattenend. (why did the chicken cross the street? to get flattenened?) It was my turn at the intersection and the guy not only ignored me but he gave me his finger as he almost clipped the front of my bike. And for these reason, the posters/stickers/t-shirt really isn't harmless fun. me thinkth... Just this past weekend no less.

For the uneducated, ill informed, the drawings in question further legitimizes a very lethal behavior. The man who tried to run me down wasn't a young guy. He was middle aged pudgy ??(*. And I'm sure he wouldn't have had any remorse had I gone down. To him, the drawing just reinforces his belief.

Where is the police when you need one?? Only happened twice in my life...