death by veganism

[mimitabby]

Death by Veganism

full story here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/21/opinion/21planck.html?em&ex=1179979200&en=7823d2bbcad13583&ei=5087%0A (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/21/opinion/21planck.html?em&ex=1179979200&en=7823d2bbcad13583&ei=5087%0A)

By NINA PLANCK
Published: May 21, 2007

WHEN Crown Shakur died of starvation, he was 6 weeks old and weighed 3.5 pounds. His vegan parents, who fed him mainly soy milk and apple juice, were convicted in Atlanta recently of murder, involuntary manslaughter and cruelty.


This particular calamity — at least the third such conviction of vegan parents in four years — may be largely due to ignorance. But it should prompt frank discussion about nutrition.

I was once a vegan. But well before I became pregnant, I concluded that a vegan pregnancy was irresponsible. You cannot create and nourish a robust baby merely on foods from plants.

[Veronica]

What did cave women eat when they were pregnant? What did they feed their babies? Whatever they did worked.

V.

[KnottedYet]

Breast milk isn't vegan enough?

Even vegan babies should have BREAST MILK!!! What were these parents thinking?

and it says right on the soy milk box "Not to be used as infant formula" precisely because of stupidity like this.

(I was pretty much vegetarian when I got preggers. I started CRAVING meat, I wanted DEAD RED MEAT for every meal. Figured my body knew what it was doing, so I ate steaks and pork chops to my heart's content.)

[Eden]

Breast milk isn't vegan enough?

Even vegan babies should have BREAST MILK!!! What were these parents thinking?

and it says right on the soy milk box "Not to be used as infant formula" precisely because of stupidity like this.

That was my first thought too! - but the article says that even breast milk from vegan moms is missing some crucial nutrients.....

[skibum]

It's interesting to see how these things get reported by the press. I followed the trial in our local paper. Certainly the appropriateness of a vegan diet for an infant was questioned during the trial but the key points in the conviction were that the child was underfed and the parents never sought medical attention.


Here's a snip from the Atlanta Journal-Constitution:

"The infant was born in the bathtub of a Buckhead apartment but never taken to a doctor while alive. He was dead when his parents took him to Piedmont Hospital, across the street from their apartment, April 25, 2004. At six weeks old he weighed just 3 1/2 pounds and was so emaciated, doctors could count his bones through his skin.

Fulton prosecutor Chuck Boring said the verdict isn't a condemnation of veganism, a strict form of vegetarianism that doesn't allow the consumption or use of animal products. Instead, jurors believed prosecutors' assertions that the couple intentionally neglected and underfed the child and then tried to use the lifestyle as a shield."

Link to full article. Registration may be required to read it.
http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/atlanta/stories/2007/05/02/0503metvegan.html

[mimitabby]

That is an individual case. a major point of that article is that this baby was not the first one to die recently from parents who are clueless about nutrition and wanting to be vegan.

[snapdragen]

It's more like death by stupidity of the parents. I'm really beginning to belive you should pass a test before being allowed to have a child.

[mimitabby]

I've thought that for a long time Snap!

[singletrackmind]

How does that work anyway? Breast milk is an animal product but it's being used for its intended purpose. Curiosity leads me to ask if this is an ok in the Vegan diet?

A sad, sad, sick story of neglect.:( :mad: :(

[mimitabby]

Okay by the standard of being a vegan or nutritionally okay?

[Jolt]

Wow--how can parents be so stupid? That is really awful. I liked the author's point about indigenous diets--seems like they should be a good indication of what works well, and none of them are vegan (some are ovolactovegetarian). I noticed that she has written a book--Real Food: What to Eat and Why. I think I'll read it once the person who has it returns it to the local library--I'm intrigued. I've always been a bit leery of the processed foods that are advertised as "healthy" because of ingredients like soy protein etc.--the cultures that eat a lot of soy products (just to use soy as an example) eat them in very different forms than this, and it may well be that those forms are healthy while the processed versions that seem to be proliferating lately aren't. Seems like eating whole/minimally processed foods, as opposed to all the refined and "fake" ingredients is a sensible idea (don't even get me started on trans fats!).

[Trek420]

I've thought that for a long time Snap!

That's ok for us to say, I believe my parents would have passed with flying colors.

But since none of us came with directions or a "read me first" file, I remember many dog eared books, child rearing manuals, Dr. Spock on the shelves.

Don't these parents know or read anything?


(I was pretty much vegetarian when I got preggers. I started CRAVING meat, I wanted DEAD RED MEAT for every meal. Figured my body knew what it was doing, so I ate steaks and pork chops to my heart's content.)

Yeah and hence sKnott is tall enough to be riding your bike. :cool: :rolleyes:

[lizbids]

Sounds like the courts thought the parents deliberately neglected their child, using veganism and a fear of hospital germs to keep the child sick. Don't you hate not knowing exactly what happened????

[mimitabby]

in this case, i feel like i know too much already.
more details would be painful.

[smilingcat]

UGGG!!! I really can't type what is on my mind with these people.

Some people with their rigid views on diet just drives me bonkers... If you are going to hold onto veganism, learn about nutrition carefully. I'm not about to pass judgement on vegan diet nor to atkins diet.

I'm going to stop here... Just so infuriating

Smilingcat

BTW some vegans also had kittens on strict vegan diet and as a result all the kittens went blind. Its not the same as human baby... but still I get angry at this too. I'll post something more cheerful tomorrow on noncycling related section.

[singletrackmind]

Okay by the standard of being a vegan or nutritionally okay?

by the standard of being a vegan........breast feeding is definitely ok, though I bet my kid's gonna be really grossed out if he ever asks! :D

[mimitabby]

My kids aren't grossed out(and they're in their 20's). They know puppies and kittens do it, why not human babies?

[Jolt]

My kids aren't grossed out(and they're in their 20's). They know puppies and kittens do it, why not human babies?

Exactly. What's there to be grossed out about?

[HappyAnika]

BTW some vegans also had kittens on strict vegan diet and as a result all the kittens went blind. Its not the same as human baby... but still I get angry at this too.

I've heard of people putting dogs on vegan diets. That is insane. Dogs are not just omnivores, they are CARNIVORES! For ******'s sake people! :mad: Feed them meat!

Can you just picture a pack of wolves with a nice fresh tasty deer: "Hey Bob, come have some dinner!" "Oh, no thanks, I'll just stick with my grass and dandelions."

[mimitabby]

they make vegan cat food too. And cats cannot survive without animal protein.

[Kitsune06]

Without taurine, they'll go blind.

[margo49]

There was a vegan community here (Black Hebrews) and their babies were dying left, right and centre. So the Dept of Health went and gave them lectures and they are ok now. Dunno exactly what the solution was but they adopted it. But this intervention was only possible because they were a community and so it all came to the notice of the Authorities. They were in a tricky immigration situation too (the whole lot of them) and I think that also gave the Dept of Health a lever and the community a reason to adopt their advice (or they would have been extradited).
I'm a (lacto - ovo) vego (28+ years). The 3 kids all eat meat (outside the house). Which is their choice. Vegan is too much, imo. From all points of view - nutritional, prep. times and expense, social.

[Eden]

speaking of kitties, Mimi - how did the cooking for cats class go? Everything I read made it sound very difficult to cook a balanced diet for kitties....
(not only do they go blind if you don't feet them properly, they can get heart problems, neuromuscular problems, kidney problems...... sorry all you vegans, but predatory animals like dogs and cats were made to eat other animals, perhaps if you truely want a vegan pet you should get a rabbit? guinea pig? something that is naturally a vegetarian!)

[mimitabby]

Eden
I agree with you about vegan pets. Get a guinea pig! they will feast on carrots, peppers, celery and cabbage. and live happily ever after.

I didn't go to a cooking class. I have been grinding whole chickens, adding extra chicken heart and liver (taurine) and egg yolks and making cat food.
it's been just about 1 month and now they are really getting into it.

I also give them a small amount of dry cat food a day too. it's good for cleaning their teeth.

[RoadRaven]

Certainly the appropriateness of a vegan diet for an infant was questioned during the trial but the key points in the conviction were that the child was underfed and the parents never sought medical attention.


This is very similar to a case here a couple of years ago where the parents linked their vegetariansim to their religion. They also chose to defend not using the doctor as religious reasining saying praying would be enough (???... did they not read the bit in the Bible that says something like 'God helps those who help themselves'...???)

Our (I say our, because he became the nations. In death, we "adopted" him as very few people wished to allow the parents the right of seeing themselves as such)...

Our (New Zealand's) little boy was older than this one... but still dreadfully ill, and the actions of those who were attempting to raise him showed no understanding of child nutrtion or health requirements... what they did was unforgivable.

[maillotpois]

Can you just picture a pack of wolves with a nice fresh tasty deer: "Hey Bob, come have some dinner!" "Oh, no thanks, I'll just stick with my grass and dandelions."

That's like a bad Far Side cartoon! :p

[mimitabby]

I've heard of people putting dogs on vegan diets. That is insane. Dogs are not just omnivores, they are CARNIVORES! For ******'s sake people! :mad: Feed them meat!

Can you just picture a pack of wolves with a nice fresh tasty deer: "Hey Bob, come have some dinner!" "Oh, no thanks, I'll just stick with my grass and dandelions."

Yes, Humans, the smartest creatures of all know so much that we will starve ourselves to look beautiful, and feed our babies food that a wolf/dog/cat
wouldn't feed its own children!

[Persona]

I've heard of people putting dogs on vegan diets. That is insane. Dogs are not just omnivores, they are CARNIVORES! For ******'s sake people! :mad: Feed them meat!

Can you just picture a pack of wolves with a nice fresh tasty deer: "Hey Bob, come have some dinner!" "Oh, no thanks, I'll just stick with my grass and dandelions."

Technically, dogs are able to get all their nutrients from a carefully formulated vegetarian diet. Dogs are indeed omnivores in this sense, though they obviously like meat. The same is NOT true with cats. Cats are true carnivores and have nutritional needs that can only be met with amino acids that are only found in meats, although they can be synthesized by other means now days. There are other issues though, and even the manufacturers of at least one brand of vegan cat food recommend that cats eat a mix of vegan cat food and real meat because of their concerns that not enough of their customers were following their recommendations and they were concerned with the health of the cats.

Regarding human children, plenty of those have grown up fully vegan and are doing just fine: http://veganhealth.org/articles/realveganchildren


P.S. Not a vegan now, but I was for a long time. It still astounds me at how much misinformation there is floating around on the subject.

[mimitabby]

Sorry, Persona, I can't imagine a Vegan feeding their cat real meat.

I have no doubts that you can raise a child vegan so long as there is Vit B12 in there somewhere, and breastmilk.