Stop the sizing madness!!!

[quint41]

Is anyone besides me sick and tired of the huge discrepancy in sizes of women's clothes?! I just received an order of workout clothes that I had ordered online. I KNOW -- my fault for trying to get a bargain online instead of paying full price at my local sporting goods giant. Three multisport tops have to be returned because the size LARGE tops are too darn small -- again!! However, this weekend I bought some work clothes -- all of the tops I purchased are size 8 or Small. I bought a demin jacket, had to get a darn XS!!!! So, why, then, can I barely get these workout tops over my head?!?!?! They are by SheBeest, Zoot and Moving Comfort, not some fly-by-night brand.

Most of my biking shorts and all of my jerseys are size Large. I'm 5'4", weigh 140 lbs, and all of my everyday clothes are size 8 or Small. What gives?!?!?!

ARGH! Another shipping charge to send these things back!

[7rider]

Here, here!
It drives me insane when I go shopping with DH. He'll pick up a size M and throw it in the basket. "Aren't you going to try that on?" I ask. "Why?" he responds. "It's a medium." And the kicker of it is.....he's right. It all fits him.
I have to try on EVERYTHING. I range from size medium (LL Bean and Cannondale) to extra-large (Castelli), depending on not only the manufacture, but the style (and even model year??). I have a pair of women's Gramicci pants, size M. They fit me fine. I go back to the store, I can't get a single pair of Gramicci pants in size M over my hips. What the heck happened?? I still wear the old ones and they fit fine.

[Pax]

I'm 5'10" and on the north side of 200#'s, my honey is 5'1" and about 110#'s...she wears a womens large in most things. Even if I lost half of my body weight I couldn't wear a womens XL and it's damn annoying. :mad: Instead I get to wear guys stuff in boring (or worse yet ugly) colors that fit weird.

[quint41]

5'1" and 110 lbs. and she's wearing a LARGE?!?! What is wrong with these manufacturers?!?!

I usually wear an 8, as I said. My daughter and I went shopping for work clothes this weekend -- Ann Taylor Loft -- I tried on an 8 skirt and it was too big. I bought the 6!! I wore it today, and even that was SLIGHTLY BIG IN THE WAIST! The sweater that I bought is a small, and even that was a little roomy on me today. I AM 5'4" AND 145 LBS. TODAY. I AM NOT A VERY SMALL PERSON!!!!!!!!!

I put on my Large Canari women's biking shorts and my Small Unisex Vomax MS Jersey to go riding tonight.

ARARRRGGGHHHHH!!!

[Zen]

...I usually wear an 8, as I said. My daughter and I went shopping for work clothes this weekend -- Ann Taylor Loft -- I tried on an 8 skirt and it was too big. I bought the 6!! I wore it today, and even that was SLIGHTLY BIG IN THE WAIST! The sweater that I bought is a small, and even that was a little roomy on me today. I AM 5'4" AND 145 LBS. TODAY. I AM NOT A VERY SMALL PERSON!!!!!!!!!...


Ann Taylor is a rather high end store (to me anyway) and the higher end retailers usually run smaller.
I believe this is whats known as "ego sizing".

[Eden]

.... my honey is 5'1" and about 110#'s...she wears a womens large in most things.....

From what store?!?!?!?!?! I'm 5' nothing and about 103 so not too much smaller than your honey and nearly everthing seems much too large for me, I'm lucky when I can find and xs or an xxs or a 0......
I've recently found that girls! jeans in a size 16 or 14 actually fit me - ack! I've been sized out of the adult world. I'll admit I'm short, but I'm certainly not rail thin and I have hips so I did not expect to fit into kids clothes..

[Wahine]

I'm 5'7" and around 142 lbs, depending on the day.

I can wear anything from a size 4 up to a size 8 usually in women's work/casual wear. I need a large or XL in Zoot tri clothes. Yup, it's crazy. I now keep all my measurements on a card and use that to check the sizing before buying on-line. Even then I get into trouble, sugoi's tops are usually too short for my torso and many shorts fit me well in the waist and butt while they cut into me on the leg openings. Arrrrrrgggggg!!

[michelem]

I can relate Eden. This "ego sizing" thing is VERY frustrating as I am the same weight I was in high school, but in high school I wore a size 5 and now, 20+ years later a size 0 is too large. It is near impossible for me to find anything that fits anymore. XS in cycling shorts, tights, and jerseys seem to be the right size for me though . . .

[Pax]

From what store?!?!?!?!?! I'm 5' nothing and about 103 so not too much smaller than your honey and nearly everthing seems much too large for me, I'm lucky when I can find and xs or an xxs or a 0......
I've recently found that girls! jeans in a size 16 or 14 actually fit me - ack! I've been sized out of the adult world. I'll admit I'm short, but I'm certainly not rail thin and I have hips so I did not expect to fit into kids clothes..

I would guess part of it is neither of us like the look/style of the fashions in the '00's, we wear boring jeans and t-shirts/polo shirts...mostly LL Bean, Gap, Lands End and we both HATE tight fitting clothes. We ordered her last top from LL Bean in a medium it fit REALLY close to the body and was tight in the shoulders.

[Eden]

I would guess part of it is neither of us like the look/style of the fashions in the '00's, we wear boring jeans and t-shirts/polo shirts...mostly LL Bean, Gap, Lands End and we both HATE tight fitting clothes. We ordered her last top from LL Bean in a medium it fit REALLY close to the body and was tight in the shoulders.

I can relate a bit to that - though I fit into kids jeans I have yet to see a pair I'd be comfortable wearing out..... (they are all cut so low!). I'm suprised an LL Bean medium would be tight - but I am well, less than well endowed, so its generally a big suprise if a top is small on me...
I accepted for years and even got used to wearing stuff that was too big on me, but a few years ago I actually found some clothes that fit and now I just can't go back to all that baggy stuff - I just feel like it makes me look like a little kid wearing someone elses clothes... Unfortunately this does limit my selections a bit.

[Bikingmomof3]

I wish I could sew better. Now that I am finally down to were I was 14 years ago (yes, I am slow :o ) I find that when I buy a really nice outfit I must have it tailored. To fit my shoulders, the bust and sleeves of every top are too long. Petite bottoms are just short enough to look wrong and regular is usually just long enough to look sloppy. Almost every pair of slacks or skirt will have a waist that is too big and must be taken in. I have resigned myself to finding a decent and affordable tailor.

[Bikingmomof3]

Ann Taylor is a rather high end store (to me anyway) and the higher end retailers usually run smaller.
I believe this is whats known as "ego sizing".

They must because I just bought a summer dress from them and it is a size 4. Honestly my shoulders, for those who have seen them, are not a size 4. But it looks good on the tag, right? :p :confused:

[bmccasland]

and another example of the maddness - I'm supposed to order a work related polo type shirt, and when I looked at the sizing chart it gave the measurements of the shirt (width from seam to seam) :eek: . So now I get to go home and measure another polo shirt that fits comfortably to see what it's chest measurement is! I have never seen clothes sizes given in the width from seam to seam.

One time, Pre-K, I went to one of those high end boutiques just to see what they had, and the designer had her own sizing. So I'm looking for something in the 8-10-12 range (my "normal" size) only to discover that translates to her size 2. Gaak! If sizing wasn't confusing enough!!!

Does anyone else out there remember when ladies blouses and dresses were sold by bust size? If you wore a size 34 bra, then you wore a size 34 blouse.

[Jolt]

5'1" and about 110#'s...she wears a womens large in most things.

Holy crap, that is officially ridiculous! I'm not far from her size, and I haven't run into that situation with anything (there are some tops where I'll wear a medium, but that's partly because I don't like things skin-tight). Usually I wear a small in most things (XS in L.L. Bean though--their stuff seems to run a bit big). It really would be nice if sizes were more standardized, but I doubt that will ever happen.

[Pax]

Holy crap, that is officially ridiculous! I'm not far from her size, and I haven't run into that situation with anything (there are some tops where I'll wear a medium, but that's partly because I don't like things skin-tight). Usually I wear a small in most things (XS in L.L. Bean though--their stuff seems to run a bit big). It really would be nice if sizes were more standardized, but I doubt that will ever happen.

She ordered three polos from LL Bean recently, all identical except color, all size medium (she wanted less tail to tuck in)...all three fit differently and two fit so poorly they had to be sent back. :mad: I don't know if it's poor quality control or just that there is NO standards for sizing womens garments.

[Jolt]

She ordered three polos from LL Bean recently, all identical except color, all size medium (she wanted less tail to tuck in)...all three fit differently and two fit so poorly they had to be sent back. :mad: I don't know if it's poor quality control or just that there is NO standards for sizing womens garments.

That's pretty bad--I would think their quality control is better than that; I've never had a problem with any of their products. Must have been an off day or something! At least they have a good return policy for the times when this sort of thing does happen.

[Susan Otcenas]

A few years ago, I wrote a post to a cycling list I'm on about women's sizing. Unfortunately I can no longer put my fingers on the magazine article I mentioned....

"If anyone REALLY cares, I have a great 4 page article from a recent edition of Gear Trends magazine, which I'd be happy to share if asked. Some brief
tidbits:

Ladies, ever wonder exactly what "size 2" or "size 12" actually means, and why its called that? Well, women's sizing was originally age-based. A size 16 was to fit an average women (for that time - 1800's) of age 16.

On into the early 1900's, more clothing began to be purchased rather than made at home. Still sizing wasn't much of an issue, because almost all clothing and department stores had alterations departments.

Mid-1900's, alterations started to be phased out and the real trouble began. In the 1940's the USDA and the US military attempted a comprehensive survey of body measurements. They manually measured 8,000 subjects, mostly white and of military age. To quote the article "Not exactly an ideal survey sample of a national body-type".

ASTM (American Society for Testing and MAterials) actually has a set of measurements and standards, but they are very outdated (based in part on that 1940's survey) and no manufacturer currently adheres to them.

Currently, there is no uniform standard for sizing among apparel manufacturers. Two updated surveys have recently been conducted, one using about 5000 Americans and Europeans, another using more than 10,000 Americans (this one called SizeUSA, see http://www.tc2.com/what/sizeusa/index.html ) . The results reveal that women, on average, are becoming hippier and thicker through the waist, relative to their bust measurements. That is, more pear shaped and less hourglass shaped.

All of the above hasn't even begun to address "fit preference" ie. Loose, snug, etc. or the issue of "vanity sizing", the process by which manufacturers make clothing ever larger so that ever larger americans can still fit into the same size clothing.

I could go on, but I'm sure I've lost most of you already."

Susan

[ridebikeme]

I agree with everyone here.. clothing sizes are ridulous! I think part of the difference is that most everyone is NOT made here in the US anymore. Like others, I used to buy my clothes from LL Beans and had very good luck. Unfortunately now they are purchasing most of their clothes from outside the US and they are definitely some quality problems in terms of consistent sizing... Perhaps as consumers we need to let these ratilers know this??

In terms of larger cycling jersies, look towards clothing from Terry. They generally have a wide range of sizes and are quite helpful online or the phone.

[Kitsune06]

No kidding. I've always had luck with PI... but some other brands I've tried... ???

For instance- the size M cannondale shorts I have, while they fit ok on my hips/butt, thighs, the elastic bands across waist and thighs are just TIGHT. Do they expect me to have a nice round booty and stick figure legs or something? I'm a freakin' biker! If I have *ANY* muscle on my body AT ALL it'll be on those thighs! Geez!

</rant>

[JenLeath]

I am full busted with broad shoulders on top, and narrow hips on the bottom. Everything fits wrong. I wear a medium in PI shorts, and an XL in tops. Some XL's don't even fit. Wetsuit fitting is grueling. I think I may have to go to a Desoto two piece. I have a pair of shorts from one store that is an 11, then another from a different store size 17. What's up with that?

[pooks]

That's a fascinating history of sizing, Susan. No wonder it's a mess.

But you'd think that Terry, Shebeest and other women-specific cycling clothing manufacturers would see the benefit of getting together on sizing. It would revolutionize the biz and they'd sell MORE, not less.

Also, more large sizes. I mentioned that to a friend (who is not small, herself) whose husband is a thin cyclist. When I complained about the sizing, even she bought into the "there aren't enough heavy women cyclists to justify making cycling clothes for them," because she saw only skinny women out there when her husband officiate races.

Sigh.

[Crankin]

I pretty much stick to one brand (Terry) in cycling clothes. The x smalls fit me perfectly. I find Athleta brand also fits me well and they have many pants in petite sizes (duh, there are a lot of us short people out there).
What I find confusing are the sizing charts that cycling clothing companies put out. If I read them correctly, I should be wearing a small, not an extra small. But the shorts are too big in the waist and the jerseys are just huge. I appreciate that Terry even makes x-smalls in a variety of styles.
As far as regular clothes go, I buy most of my clothes at Ann Taylor Loft, because it's the only store near me where i can actually run in and buy something. My size there has been going down, down, and down, even though I have been around the same weight for 5 years. I also buy at Banana Republic Petites (there is ONE store in the whole state of Massachusetts). Like, I can go in and buy a plain cotton t shirt that actually fits and isn't down to my thighs and baggy. I also have ordered a whole lot from J Crew catalogs, but they seem to have a conspiracy against short people. First, they stopped selling petites in the stores. Then, they stopped making sweaters in petites. Now, there's no shorts in petites. They have pants, suits, a few skirts and dresses. No t shirts. I am pretty much done with them!
OK, done with my rant. Going to get ready to ride.

[Python]

Same problem here in the UK. I'm 5' 1" and weigh 91 lbs. Shopping for clothes is a nightmare. Most things are too large for me. Usually I get told to go to the kids department. I feel really embarrassed having to try on kids clothes at my age (50). What is wrong with the manufacturers? Do they think we all come in one size? Grrrrrrrrr:mad:

[emily_in_nc]

I pretty much stick to one brand (Terry) in cycling clothes. The x smalls fit me perfectly. I find Athleta brand also fits me well and they have many pants in petite sizes (duh, there are a lot of us short people out there).
What I find confusing are the sizing charts that cycling clothing companies put out. If I read them correctly, I should be wearing a small, not an extra small. But the shorts are too big in the waist and the jerseys are just huge. I appreciate that Terry even makes x-smalls in a variety of styles.
As far as regular clothes go, I buy most of my clothes at Ann Taylor Loft, because it's the only store near me where i can actually run in and buy something. My size there has been going down, down, and down, even though I have been around the same weight for 5 years. I also buy at Banana Republic Petites (there is ONE store in the whole state of Massachusetts). Like, I can go in and buy a plain cotton t shirt that actually fits and isn't down to my thighs and baggy. I also have ordered a whole lot from J Crew catalogs, but they seem to have a conspiracy against short people. First, they stopped selling petites in the stores. Then, they stopped making sweaters in petites. Now, there's no shorts in petites. They have pants, suits, a few skirts and dresses. No t shirts. I am pretty much done with them!
OK, done with my rant. Going to get ready to ride.

Robyn, were you and I separated at birth? I also shop heavily at Ann Taylor Loft and have found their sizing getting more "generous" lately too, despite the fact that I have not lost weight. I'd been wearing 4P, and have some of that size that are even on the snug side, but recently, they've been huge, and I've needed a 2P. I notice that they now sell not only 0P but 00P and XXS Petite, so perhaps that's why they made the other sizes larger? Anyway, I like their clothes, and I also wear XS in Terry items! I have never seen a Banana Republic Petites, just the regular Banana Republic, which I have never even been into.

Emily

[teigyr]

It's all depressing! I'm 5'11" and am usually a size 10. I've had mediums fit me and I've also had to buy XL's at times. I have jeans in size 12 that are tight and ones that are size 10 that are loose.

What I don't get is that I am not huge. I'm tall, I work out, and while I have chubby parts I'm muscular also. If I'm XL, what about people who are larger than me?

That is interesting about the thicker middle. I wonder if it is because women are living longer? Don't middles tend to thicken up later in life? I know mine isn't as small as it used to be though the rest of me is the same.

The bane of my existence are shirts that aren't long enough. Please please please, I don't need my stomach exposed! I have to get mens shirts and I don't always like how those fit. I want "girl style" things but sometimes can't get them. Grrrrr.......

[pooks]

I'm not as tall or lean as you are, but I share your pain.

I just posted a pair of jeans for sale over in the other category because they don't fit. I would have thought a 5'8" woman would be a medium-tall (since they also have regular and tall) but these drag unless I'm wearing my hiking boots.

And as for the tops -- I am not a skinny little girl with a cute belly. Everyone concerned should be happy I want to keep my belly covered. So why are more and more pants and shorts low-rise and blouses not long enough to keep me covered?

Gah!

[Zen]

This is one of the reasons I hate shopping.

[HoosierGiant]

I loathe shopping! Detest it even! Hate, despise, and abhor the entire process!

[cinnamon_toast]

Actually part of the reason we are getting thicker around the middle is due to the corset - or the lack thereof. (Now don't get me started on Spanx - those are a miracle garment if you are going to be wearing something clingy.)

I am also a fanatical sewer and I think the sewing sizes you see on patterns have been the same since the 70's. In ready-to-wear I'm now in a 6 or 8 (bottoms) but in a pattern I need to buy a 10 or 12.

And the term for the gradual enlarging of sizes is actually called "vanity sizing."

[wurkit_gurl]

Robyn, were you and I separated at birth? I also shop heavily at Ann Taylor Loft and have found their sizing getting more "generous" lately too, despite the fact that I have not lost weight. I'd been wearing 4P, and have some of that size that are even on the snug side, but recently, they've been huge, and I've needed a 2P. I notice that they now sell not only 0P but 00P and XXS Petite, so perhaps that's why they made the other sizes larger? Anyway, I like their clothes, and I also wear XS in Terry items! I have never seen a Banana Republic Petites, just the regular Banana Republic, which I have never even been into.

Emily

Many regular Banana Republic stores will have a petites section (I get dresses, skirts and some tops in petites, but I'm all leg so pants don't work) albeit not usually a large one. But if you can find them, you can know your sizes and then order from online. To the person from Concord, the next time you're in Boston, go to the Banana in Copley Plaza - they definitely have petite sizes.

[Crankin]

Hi Emily, I haven't looked at this thread in awhile, but yes, I think we were separated at birth! Maybe someday i can come down to NC and we can do some wussy mountain biking together (ha). Seriously, we have talked about a NC vacation for awhile, so it might be in the next year or so.
Wurk it, I did go to the Banana Republic in Copley Place a few times and they had a large petitie section there. But, they opened the BR Petites store in the Chestnut Hill Mall, which is a lot closer and doesn't involve city traffic or the commuter rail. I think they took the petites out of the regular stores after that.

Well, I am glad to see that I am not the only one with this issue. I recently bought a t shirt at The Loft in an xxsmall :eek: . I may be flat chested, but I am of normal weight for my height, not skinny skinny.

[quint41]

QUOTE: But you'd think that Terry, Shebeest and other women-specific cycling clothing manufacturers would see the benefit of getting together on sizing. It would revolutionize the biz and they'd sell MORE, not less.

QUOTE: I mentioned that to a friend, even she bought into the "there aren't enough heavy women cyclists to justify making cycling clothes for them,"


#1 -- When I brought up the subject of sizing, I KNEW I'd have company! Which does EXACTLY beg the first question of WHY, OH WHY, these "women-specific" manufacturers do not see the benefit of uniform sizing!! You are SO right that they'd sell more!!! Since I do most of my biking clothes shopping online, it seems to me that this whole scam is being run by the postal services, since THEY are the ones making money on all of my returns!!!

#2 -- I ride with several women, and few of us are rail thin. We were just discussing the size topic yesterday, and we are all in the same boat! The AVERAGE cyclist is NOT a rail-thin racer. (Hey - that would be an excellent poll on this site -- to find out what "average" means -- how many miles per week on average, at what average speed ...)

#3 -- My favorite shorts are Canari women's size L. I have several other shorts/knickers/tights by other manufacturers, some Mediums, most Larges. I just ordered a new Canari Velo Pro Gel Short online in a Medium and prayed that it wouldn't be too tight. Guess what? IT'S TOO BIG!!! I HAVE TO SEND IT BACK AND EXCHANGE FOR A SMALL!!!!!!!!!!! I GIVE UP!!!!!