I Think I "Bonked"

[michelem]

Well, yesterday morning I did a group ride of about 41 miles. Went with the "C" group, which is the "slow" (ha ha) group. Anyway, I recently read about how for cycling it's good to train the body to burn more fat vs. glycogen for fuel -- supposedly this helps for longer-distance riding (which, I'd like to work up to). The magazine (sorry! can't remember which one - all I know is it's a UK cycling mag) said that for morning rides NO breakfast beforehand - ride fasted - ride 2 hrs. with water or 5% electrolyte drink - keep steady, do not attack or ride above 80% HR max. If over 2 hrs., eat proper amount according to body weight & mph (for me approx. 100 cal./hr.) on the bike in the form of regular carb foods. So, I tried this. I did great the first 1/2 of the ride. I didn't eat or drink anything before heading out and around the 1 hr. mark I drank about 1/4 of my bottle of very diluted Emergen-C. At about the 90 min. mark (our 1/2-way mark) I drank about another 1/4 of drink and ate 1/2 of an Organic Food Bar http://www.organicfoodbar.com/usa/vegan.html
About another 1/4 of the way into the second 1/2 of our ride (maybe sooner), I dropped about 5-6 mph's and felt like my quads were made of lead. I wasn't breathing heavy and my heart rate wasn't beating wildly, but my legs were so heavy and my quads were burning. Thank goodness I have a granny ring for the hills (remind me to insist on a triple when I get a road bike)! I've got to say that being a newbie to riding clipless, that was a big motivation to keep spinning up the hills - I didn't want to tip over by losing momentum! When we got to about the 3/4 mark I drank the rest of my fluid and ate the second 1/2 of the bar. It did not help. I guess it was too late. I REALLY struggled with the last 1/4 of the ride. Thankfully the guys leading the ride were very nice and understanding and did not drop me! Did I mention that the "group" was just the three of us? :o

So, they suggested that next Friday night I drink about an extra 32 oz. of water over my normal fluid intake (I didn't drink much the day or evening before this most recent ride) and then on Saturday morning eat something like a bowl of hot cereal with slivered almonds about 2 hrs. before the ride and then have something similar to a "Gu" right before the ride.

What do you all think? I just finished reading the thread about how guys and gals metabolize glycogen differently, so it's more important for gals to feed on the bike rather than before, whereas guys can get away with carbo loading before the event and then not feeding so much during the ride.

I definitely don't want a repeat of yesterday's ride. That was embarrassing and not very fun. I spent the rest of the day eating like there was no tomorrow - I felt like I was starved and I guess I was! Throughout the rest of the day I ate 3 large bowls of homemade chicken/veggie/brown rice soup; a large bowl of cream of rice cereal with a pear, cinnamon, flaxseed, kefir, and 2 omega-3 eggs; and a large mug of hot chocolate made with unsweetened organic chocolate powder, vanilla, stevia, and hemp milk. I also drank quite a bit of fluid. I've eaten quite a bit today as well and only did a one hour power yoga video as exercise. I was SO SORE yesterday and also this morning, but after the doing the yoga the muscle soreness is gone. I finally feel satiated, so I guess I've re-fed enough for now.

Any feedback is greatly appreciated!

[jobob]

Anyway, I recently read about how for cycling it's good to train the body to burn more fat vs. glycogen for fuel -- supposedly this helps for longer-distance riding (which, I'd like to work up to). The magazine (sorry! can't remember which one - all I know is it's a UK cycling mag) said that for morning rides NO breakfast beforehand - ride fasted - ride 2 hrs. with water or 5% electrolyte drink - keep steady, do not attack or ride above 80% HR max. If over 2 hrs., eat proper amount according to body weight & mph (for me approx. 100 cal./hr.) on the bike in the form of regular carb foods. So, I tried this.


1. Throw the magazine in the trash.
2. The suggestions the riders gave you sound fine to me.

[Running Mommy]

What Jobob said!! You can't fast before a ride! Or before any type of training actually!! Last week my husband failed to have a bit of breakfast before we went out for our run. He made it two miles and bonked on the third. He had to stop and walk after only 3.2 miles. We had planned to do a five miler. I was piszed at him when I found out he had nothing in his stomach!! :cool:
Eat REAL food, aim for as little processing as you can, don't gorge and you will be fine. My friend gave me some great advise that i've been using and it's working. I lost 3 lbs in the last two weeks. It was this:
Whenever you are going to eat something, ask yourself what it is going to do for your body. What kind of nutrients are in it. Don't eat processed foods. yeah baked lays may only have 120 calories in them, but they have no nutrient value. So they are giving your body calories without any real nutrition, which your body still needs. So all your doing is wasting your calorie bank.
Does that make sense? I don't explain it as well as she did.
So is that magazine in the trash yet? :p
A long time ago I read in article in a magazine about how the stars really lose weight for a role. It had their exact regime for eating and exercise. The diet was SCARY! Not good for you at all. I remember thinking how reckless it was to print something like that.

[KnottedYet]

Oh. My. Gawd.

throw that magazine out!

[Jolt]

Oh. My. Gawd.

throw that magazine out!

In fact, defenestrate it! (But then go out and pick it up and put it in the trash barrel, wouldn't want to litter)

[Veronica]

Nahh... I think she should eat the magazine. :p

V.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Another minor point- Emergen-C powder packets are not really electrolytes- they contain mostly vitamins. The same company however DOES make packets with specifically electrolytes content for replacing those lost during exercise.

I use both. The electrolyte powder directions say one packet per liter- so I mix up a liter of water with one packet and divide it into 3 water bottles and keep them in the fridge for my bike rides. I use about one per day. The Emergen-C packet (which says one packet per glass of water) I either throw into a water bottle just before I leave (vitamin C does not store/stand well), or I drink one in a glass of water later in the day.

Aside from the 1000mg of vitamin C in the packet of Emergen-C, the other vitamins in it are not very strong at all, and if as you say you are drinking "very diluted" Emergen-C water, that probably isn't doing much in terms of any nutrient replacement.
FWIW....here is the electrolyte powder packets I use that are made by the Emergen-C people:
http://www.allstarhealth.com/f/alacer-electro_mix.htm
You mix one packet to a liter of water (NOT one packet per water bottle!)

[michelem]

Thanks for the replies and suggestions. I read the mag at Borders (bookstore) and took notes, but did not buy it. Upon your advice, the notes are going in the trash! :D I'll look into the Alacer Electrolyte mix. Already, I rarely eat processed foods - the Organic Food Bar is about as processed as I get - I'll start playing around with different foods to see what works and fits in my jersey pockets! It's kinda tough 'cause I do have some food intolerances/allergies. This was my first morning ride, so that was different too. I'm going to have to get up very early to eat before the next ride (ugh - I'm not a morning person!. :eek:

[mimitabby]

one more thing.
I read in your posts that you are trying to do two things, increase your riding
and DECREASE your food intake. NOT a good combination. I guarantee if you increase your riding, you're 1/ going to have to eat more 2/ you're going to start changing your metabolism.
But you can't start by starving yourself or you won't be able to sustain the work.

One of the reasons my DH likes to ride IN EXCESS is so that he can continue to enjoy
the foods he loves without getting chubby.

[jobob]

I read the mag at Borders (bookstore) and took notes, but did not buy it. Well, glad you didn't waste any money on it! :D

As with pretty much everything else having to do with biking ;) you'll need to find out for yourself what works best for you in terms of what to eat before a ride, and how long before the ride to eat it. But it sounds like we're all in agreement that you gotta eat beforehand - to fuel the engine, as it were. :)

[michelem]

"I read in your posts that you are trying to do two things, increase your riding
and DECREASE your food intake."

Hi MimiTabby,

Sorry if I wasn't clear in my post. My goal is to increase my riding distances, but it is not to decrease my food intake. I do NOT need (or want) to lose weight. The magazine was addressing how to train the body to burn more fat vs. glycogen so that it will sustain longer rides more efficiently. It is not a weight loss tactic. Anyway, I learned right away that this is not the route for me to take. How can I increase my distances if my muscles give out 1/2-way through the ride? Perhaps this tactic does work for really fit guys or something. Who knows . . . I just know it sure didn't work for me this past weekend! :eek:

[jobob]

Well, personal experience is the best teacher. So long as you don't kill yourself in the process. :cool:

[maillotpois]

V's right, you probably would have riddenbetter if you had eaten the magazine. That's inSANE. Any ride longer than about 15 miles you gotta have breakfast!

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I make it a lovely ritual to have a yummy breakfast in my favorite little cafe before most of my morning 1 or 2 hour rides. :p (And then I sip my water frequently while riding as well.)

[SadieKate]

Lisa, how do you find the time to breakfast at a cafe, then ride and then work?

If you're starting a ride already dehydrated, it is almost impossible to catch up during a ride. Drink plenty of water everyday (in other words, do as I say, not as I do).

For instance, one of the benefits to frozen margs is you drink a lot more water because the ice melts faster. :rolleyes: :D

[KnottedYet]

Did that silly magazine think you would burn fat AS YOU ARE RIDING!?!?

Fat is long-term storage, you can't get your body to suddenly run on fat by skipping b'fast one day! (I wanna have a talk with those writers....)

And if you freak out your system and drain the goodies from your short-term storage and circulating fuel, well your bod will just shut down and bonk, won't it? Then your system goes into crisis mode, and doesn't it just lower your metabolism and do what it can to protect (not use) your stored energy?

Maybe women have more efficient systems (we do seem to handle endurance and low food conditions better than men) but it still seems like a bass-ackwards way to try to mobilize stored fat, even for may-fly metabolism men.

Knot-isn't-a-metabolic-specialist-but-loves-her-stored-fat

[michelem]

Okay, I finally found the info. It's from a UK mag called Cycling Plus, the March 2007 edition:

"Starting with the basics, you have two choices of fuel; carbohydrate and fat. Carbs provide around 1500 to 2000 calories when muscles are fully 'carb loaded'. This higher octane fuel can help you go long when combined with fat use or can fuel quick efforts/sustained high-intensity riding on its own.
The fat stored under your skin and within muscles themselves is a very high-calorie fuel depot. Even lean riders like Lance Armstrong had over 30,000 calories stored as fat. Fat use generally increases steadily as a ride draws out, starting with the use of fat droplets stored in muscle and then gradually using fat circulating in the blood stream that is coming off the 'chub' stores spread around the body. Even during long training rides you will still be using carbs. The secret is to keep ride intensity under 80% of your max heart rate and ride for long periods.

Do not underestimate the importance of food. What you eat before, during and after riding does affect your fat burning capabilities. Feeding carbs before and during a 2 hour ride significantly decreases the use of fats stored within muscle fibres."

Then it goes on with the recommendation I tried on Saturday morning (which, for me, did not work).

[maillotpois]

My understanding is you need carbs to get the fat burning started - like kindling for a fire. You cannot run on no carbs, and you can't "teach" your body to burn fat unless you have carbs available to use as well.

See any of the articles here (while they are trying to sell their products, their research is solid and the products and thoeires are used consistently with good results by many endurance athletes):

http://www.hammernutrition.com/za/HNT?PAGE=ENDURANCE_LIBRARY


Also see the great articles here: http://www.ultracycling.com/nutrition/nutrition.html

And Nancy Clark's books, such as The Cyclist's Food Guide.

[yellow]

For instance, one of the benefits to frozen margs is you drink a lot more water because the ice melts faster. :rolleyes: :D
Spoken like a true expert!

[SadieKate]

I'm good at observing and emulating my mentors. ;)

[yellow]

I'm good at observing and emulating my mentors. ;)

Shouldn't you be working????

[SadieKate]

I'm taking an early lunch break.;)

[indysteel]

I've read the same thing--about fasting before a morning ride-- in one of my cycling books. Can't remember the title off the top of my head. I understand the logic of it (I guess) but decided that it was something better left to the pros. There's no reason that I can't eat enough both before and during my rides to run on glycogen/carbs. My fat will live to see another day!

I've found myself getting up a full three hours before my last few morning rides so that I can drink a big bottle of water (and spend the next couple of hours going to the bathroom) and to start eating. So far so good. Of course, right now my morning club rides start at 9, so getting up at 6 isn't that big of a deal. Getting up at 5 for 8 a.m. rides is going to be a bit harder. But better to get up early than to bonk. I may have to set the alarm for 5, eat a banana and then go back to bed for an hour!

[jobob]

I think once you get a routine down you can cut the amount of time you need in the mornings to prepare for a ride considerably.

I do some early-morning rides during the week where I try to be out before 7. I have my routine down to where I can get up at 5:30, make some coffee, have my bowl of cereal or instant oatmeal, fill my water bottle - it's generally a short enough ride that I don't need anything else, tho I'll take a gu packet or a couple of mini paydays just in case - and be dressed and out the door by about 6:45 to 7.

I could probably make it even less time than that but I need a little time to wake up, become coherent, lollygag, digest my breakfast, and check the latest goings-on on TE, of course. Not necessarily in that order :)

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Lisa, how do you find the time to breakfast at a cafe, then ride and then work?

I work at home, self-employed, drawing technical and patent illustrations, and I enjoy working in the evenings. I don't watch tv or anything.

About 4 or 5 times a week I'm up at about 7am, off to breakfast in town on my bike, then a 20 mile ride (2 hours), back home by 11 or so. Then I work off and on in the afternoon and often I work after dinner as well. I go to bed around 11pm or so.
I like my schedule!

[RolliePollie]

I work at home, self-employed, drawing technical and patent illustrations, and I enjoy working in the evenings. I don't watch tv or anything.

About 4 or 5 times a week I'm up at about 7am, off to breakfast in town on my bike, then a 20 mile ride (2 hours), back home by 11 or so. Then I work off and on in the afternoon and often I work after dinner as well. I go to bed around 11pm or so.
I like my schedule!

Oh my heavens Lisa, I really want your schedule!!! And your job! Sounds wonderful.

As for bonking, this is a great thread for me to read. Especially the hydration part...if I start a ride dehydrated at all, I'll know it pretty quick. I'm trying to make a real effort to keep myself well hydrated at all times. Last week I was already through both my bottles in just 10 miles (hilly miles, but still!). My newest friend is soy milk. I usually drink a glass of it before I leave on a ride. Not sure if it's just in my head or not, but I feel like I'm getting a little dose of protein and carbs along with a little hydration. I'm scared of bonking, so I probably over do it with eating before a ride.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Oh my heavens Lisa, I really want your schedule!!! And your job! Sounds wonderful.

I'm not complaining. :)