Hill climbing/training advice, please!

[Bklynmom]

I have been training seriously (for the first time ever) for about 2 months and yesterday attempted my first serious hills, and had a very tough time. :(
(For NYC riders, they were the hills on 9W comming back from Piermont. It's about a one mile climb.)

I made it about half way up and just ran out of gas. I have been doing hill repeats in Prospect Park Brooklyn, but the hill is only about 1/4 of a mile. Interestingly I made it up 1/4 of a mile before getting off to push on 9W.

I know I need a longer local hill to practice on, but Brooklyn is pretty flat. I would love to find a way to work on hills before I go back to 9W again.

Any and all training suggestions would be appreciated!

I also wondering about gearing strategies for hills, I'm sure that would help me.

[missymaya]

Living in central Florida, I have to find a way to train for hills (unless I want to travel 2-4 hours north on I-4, not so much fun), I do a lot of hill training on the stand or just do hill repeats and use steeper gears. When tackling hills in a long run, if they're really steep, I try to change to my gear right before I need to pedal or a little before, so I won't have to worry about changing gears and having the chain come off. On not so steep hills, I change gears when I need to.
If you have a triple on your bike, you should be able to handle all sorts of inclines. To train for hills, be sure not to go all out on the first hill or first part of a hill. You may feel real good powering up that first hill but remember there are more to come, so try to hold a pace you know you can handle, but is enough to push you. When I just started riding, a group of us drove out and did a hill ride and I made sure not to go anaerobic so as to make it through the entire ride. That helped when I was starting out.Now, I practice going super fast up hills (especially if they're short and not too steep) and do repeats against time or measure my speed and hold my goal speed. I go anaerobic, but I've built a nice base to work off of.
That's all I can suggest right now and hopefully some of it works for you. I know there a lot of other ladies here who have much more experience than myself, I'm just a flatlander:rolleyes:

[equus123]

I find that the key is to find your rhythm and pace yourself when it comes to long climbs.

It's really important not to mash a hard gear at first so that you have more cogs in reserve for later. Rookie mistake #1. I find that this makes your legs blow up worse and way earlier, if at all. Instead, start off switching gears (as needed) every few pedal strokes as the road tilts up until you get to your lowest/easiest gear. (this also slowly increases the load on your legs vs. being in too hard of a gear and increasing the power 125 watts in 10 seconds = not good) As you're moving your way up the cassette, figure out which pace (i.e. cadence) you're going to use for the climb. Once you get into your lowest gear then keep that same pace you already created. Forget about the pain, forget about the heat, forget about the cars, forget about the muscles burning, forget about the breathing, and switch on auto-pilot. Not going into auto-pilot is a big mistake that a lot of people make. They're too conscious. Not good. Zone out.

hope this helps :)

[bcipam]

I do a hill training class each Tuesday night. You can pick out the old timers, like myself and my buddies and the newbies, strong but inexperienced riders.

The oldsters know to get down into granny and set up a regular steady cadence. I basically can ride up a tough 14% 1 mile hill, slow, but in control and not out of breath. The newbies try to power it up and quickly run out of stream. We play Tortoise and hare all the way up. The big difference is when we crest, I'm feeling good and can power on and the newbie is still out of stream and having to stop and catch their breathe.

If the hill is short, then I have no problem powering up and but if there is any distance, then I learned, through my mountain bike training, to use hills to rest, use the proper gearing, keep a steady stroke, keep breathing under control, feel good after.


My mountain bike friends taught me to go into a low gear and then once you catch a steady rhythm, gear up. Better than trying a hard gear and than having to go down.

PS: Last Tuesday's class I did 17.9 miles and 1835' of climbing.

[ccnyc]

Bklynmom:

I'm from NYC and know that hill on 9W. You must find your rhythm, settle into it and chug up that hill. Forget about trying to keep up with others, especially if you're new to hills. The gearing advice posted here is great.

Other hill ideas near NYC:
Harlem Hill in Central Park (at the North End) is great for doing hill repeats. I usually do 6 or 7 in a row and get a really good workout by challenging myself with a higher gear/faster pace. The hill repeat loop is a little over one mile long while the hill itself is 0.32 long with an 84' rise and a 4.4% grade. Doesn't sound like much, but doing them in succession is a great workout.

You could go over the GWB, and not too far from the bridge, do a hill repeat circuit on the famous Walnut (0.55, 190', 6.5%) and Churchill (0.69, 240', 6.6%) hills.

River Road (under the GWB) is great for hill training but only the northern end (Alpine Hill 1.07, 400', 7.1%) is open now due to a landslide blocking the road. You can access it via 9W, Alpine Police Station entrance.

Check out this regional hill grade document: http://www.nycc.org/re_regional_grades.html

The upside is that any of the above hill suggestions have wonderful downhills. Lots of fun.

Let me know if you would like any further details or suggestions. I'd be happy to share my knowledge of local hills.

Carol

[Bklynmom]

Thanks to all for this great advice. I am going back to the Hill Sunday and will concentrate on gearing, and setteling in to my rhythm

Carol- the NYC advice is a huge help. Tomorrow, weather permitting, I am going to Central Park and do hill repeat exactly as you describe :) .

I am going to do the Montauk Century on May 20th, then concentrate for the Month of June on hills - and thanks to you I now know where to start! I am preparing for a charity ride of 111 miles with big hills at the start, in early August. I feel like I have a handle on distance (we'll find out for real on the Montauk) and now it's time to move on to challenging typography.

[rij73]

Good question... I'm getting pretty decent at the hill in Prospect Park too, but am worrying about anything steeper. I have a triple, but am considering a 26t chainring to replace the 30t chainring to give myself a couple of even easier gears than I have already. There just really aren't any steep enough hills in Brooklyn to practice on! What about using a trainer? How can you simulate a hill on a trainer? Must be a decent way...

[spokewench]

What happened to my post? I thought I posted this morning to this question?

[Starfish]

What about using a trainer? How can you simulate a hill on a trainer? Must be a decent way...

If you elevate your front wheel 6 inches or so, it does engage the climbing muscles in your back, etc. You can use your gearing on the trainer to do muscle tension workouts, to simulate hill repeats, to work on out of saddle stuff, etc.

[Bklynmom]

What happened to my post? I thought I posted this morning to this question?

I posted a similar question in the tricks section, and I think you replied to that - thanks for your advice. Since there is iffy weather today in Brooklyn, I am going to try your technique for making the Prospect Park hill harder by gearing up for a min. or two, taking a 1 min. break and gearing up again.

I am also trying to push my speed on the two rolling hill sections of the Park, but maybe that's for a different day's workout. I am at a point where I have a hard time telling when I am overdoing it.

[Bklynmom]

Good question... I'm getting pretty decent at the hill in Prospect Park too, but am worrying about anything steeper..

When do you ride? I am a freelance photographer, so I ride any time between dropping off my son at school and pick up time at 3 PM. I have a white Specialized Dolce Elite with purple trim, so if you see me say hi!

I would like to go to Central Park, but some days my time is limited, or like today the weather is too iffy -- don't want to get hit by lightening on the west side bike path on the way to the Central Park! I need to find a way to get a better workout in Prospect Park. I live in Carroll gardens about a 10 minute
uphill ride from Prospect Park.

[rij73]

I'm a piano teacher, so it differs every day, but I'll keep an eye out for you! I ride a dark blue flat-bar road bike with IBEX on it.

[Jiffer]

I'm a newbie, but can give you some tips my hill climbing lover of a husband gave me recently. We tandem together and have been working on standing a little on hills. He said standing is good for several reasons. You can push harder which gets your speed up, even if only for a little while. However, I think more importantly, it gives the muscles you've been using a break for a while and helps build other muscles. I can only stand for like 10 seconds before my muscles are burning so bad I have to sit. Another plus is it also gives your "hoo ha" a break!

He said he has done a training method that Lance Armstrong used to use for hillwork. He would stand for 30 seconds and sit for 30 seconds. This helps build those standing muscles. You might try this on your shorter hills, or slight upgrades when you aren't planning any real hills. Whatever you can do to help strenthen those muscles so that when you really need them, they're there for you.

[Jiffer]

OOPS! I have to clarify the training method I mentioned Lance Armstrong did. Turns out, Lance wouldn't do a pidly 30 seconds standing! What was I THINKING?! He started with a minute standing, a minute sitting, 2 minutes standing, 2 minutes sitting, 3 minutes of each and 4 minutes of each and then worked his way back down to 1 again.

The 30 seconds thing was my husband's own modification of this.

Glad I could clear the air. Wouldn't want to taint Lance's reputation! :D

[rij73]

Bklynmom,

A Brooklynite cyclist friend of mine says that Prospect Park is great for hill training if you approach it correctly. He says you don't need anything steeper to train on until the hill is easy to climb in a very high gear. He suggests using Center Drive to make the laps shorter therefore decreasing the time between climbs.

What gear are you climbing that hill at? And, how comfortable is it there? How fast can you climb it? Specifically, what is the lowest mph you dip down to on the climb?

[Bklynmom]

I have done repeats on the Prospect Park hill using center drive. My low is about 9 MPH on the hill (started out with a low of 7!), high around 11. This is in a middle gear, with some tension, not a light spin.

What I have been doing in PP is to crank up the gear the minute I hit the bottom of the downhill, and try and maintain 16 MPH. I hit 18 on the flat parts, and 13 on the slight up hills in that stretch. I try to go at medium tension with some leg burn for 10 minutes, which includes the hill plus. I do 2 x 10 min. reps, with 5 min in between.

This is my own modification of Lactic acid Threshold building from my bike book.

I did this twice this week, then went back to my hill in Piermont Sunday and made it all the way up! I actually found it easer to go around 5.5 MPH up the Piermont hill than the 3 MPH I tried the first time. The chain did pop off twice because I was in too high a gear.

I do think that it is a very different psychological and gear experience with a long steep climb, and you don't get that in the Park.

I did have to get off and walk the bike on a short but very steep hill - I think that was a gearing issue, and also the fact that my legs weren't warmed up. Very steep short climbs are definitely something I need to work on.

[rij73]

Sounds awesome! I'm still at about the 7mph mark, but I think I'm not trying hard enough. Congrats on handling the hill this weekend!